lionfish gills swollen

[polishnlovingit]

my lionfish has not eaten in close to 2 weeks - and has now developed swollen gills. Could this be a sign of a parasite ? Would a fresh water dip help? if so - for how long ? I've read anywhere from 3 to 30 mins.

[saltyguy51]

What are your water stats? Is your amonia level high? I would check those first and then go from there. I would hold off on the dip and i dont think a marine fish can handle a 30 minute dip. I have done it for 5-6 minutes before and they get pretty stressed at that amount. I m sure there are some on here that can help identify the problem whether it bacterial or a parasite problem.

[saltyguy51]

What? No one on here to help this guy out?

[LisaD]

can't do much if he doesn't answer the basic questions you asked.

[polishnlovingit]

amonia is zero - nitrates are high 40ppm - ph is 7.8 - (I've been trying to bring it up with no success using pH8.2 buffer) Temp is 74.9 f - salinity is 1.018

[LisaD]

is it possible the gills were damaged by high ammonia levels within the past two weeks?

take a look at these descriptions in the link, see if any of it applies to your lionfish.

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/marinefishdisease.htm

couple more questions:
do you have a QT or hospital tank?
did you QT all your fish before putting them in the display tank?
how long have you had the tank set up?
how big is it?
what tankmates?
have you seen any aggression or harassment from tankmates?
what have you been feeding?
any recent changes? new fish?

what sized tank? is the lion in the tank in your sig - 75 Gal FOWLR lionfish , trigger,tang,puffer,koran angel,damsel? if so, that sounds like an insanely overstocked tank. crowding can lead to decrease in water quality, aggression and disease.

until you have a better idea of what is causing the problem,
I would give it a 1-hour bath in methylene blue. the reasons are that it can't hurt, and might help. meth blue is helpful for ammonia damage to gills, and has some antifungal/antiprotozoan/antibiotic properties.

a FW dip will only help with some (not all) parasites, and can stress out the fish. you could try a 3-5 minute fw dip, but be sure water is buffered to match temperature and pH of the tank water. if there are parasites, it might help dislodge them so you can see if there is anything in the bottom of the bucket.

I don't understand what is up with the pH not responding to buffering. if the pH has been low for a while, that might have affected the fish.

how long have you had the sg at 1.018? that may not be healthy, long term, and could also have something to do with the low pH.

I suspect stress due to possible harassment, overcrowding and declining water quality is at the root of the problem, whether it is a disease, parasite or something else. if your tank has been set up only 4-6 months (your sig says experience - FOWLR 3 months, and you registered in Dec 2008) then you have moved way too fast - too many fish, not a good mix, in too small a tank.

Triggers and puffers are often poor tankmates for lionfish. Did you see this post?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1542493

Please don't take my comments as any kind of personal criticism. You asked for help, and I'm trying to identify what is going on with your fish based on the information you provided. I do think that you will have problems with the stock density and stock choice in your tank, if you haven't already. you will need to change something soon or you will be losing fish.

[billsreef]

Can you take some pictures of the lion and post them? In addition the questions that Lisa asked, how long have had the lion?

[ILuvTropicalFis]

I would like to add another question. What have you been feeding the Lion? Freshwater fish and Krill only diets are not good for them. I had a fuzzy dwarf that I originally thought I lost due to my eel. It turns out he may have been in poor health due to poor nutrition. There is an article here somewhere on caring for lion fish.

[LisaD]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/fm/feature/index.php

[FMarini]

I would say just from reading the initial post that your lion is experiencing anorexia. The inflammed gills- while bad are a secondary consequence.

So I would try 3 things to get this fish back on course.
1) ensure the tank has the best most pristine water you can provide- the declining water quality is an issue and most likely the cause of the inflammed gills, 2) treat the bacterial infection, and 3) try to get he fish to eat. use what live foods you can get.
BTW 40ppm of nitrate is nothing to concern yourself with- it most likely not the cause of this problem.

Lionfish occasionally go on long-term starvation's for no apparent reason. let just hope you fish is experiencing this

[LisaD]

is anorexia a condition or a symptom?

[Sk8r]

20 % water change and carbon won't at least hurt the fish.
Way too many fish for this tank. Overcrowding leads to aeration, nitrate, and health issues. Two of the listed fish would be possible for a 75g, but 6 is way too many. The water should be near 0 nitrate, and I would say if you have sponges or a cannister filter, start cleaning assiduously, do water changes every other day until you can get that nitrate down, and take measures to thin out your fish population.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I agree- if all of those fishes are in a 75 you should remove some of them or get a larger aquarium ASAP.

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14078045#post14078045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FMarini
I would say just from reading the initial post that your lion is experiencing anorexia. The inflammed gills- while bad are a secondary consequence.

Lionfish occasionally go on long-term starvation's for no apparent reason. let just hope you fish is experiencing this

Hi Frank,

Anorexic fish? I'm sure it isn't that they see their reflection in the glass and decide to go on a starvation diet. Could you expand on that?

Polish,

The swollen gills may be caused by velvet as it is sometimes hard to see the symptoms until it infects the gill structure. If so, it will soon be noticed in the tank mates. Is it rubbing or dashing about the tank? Any type of fine hazy vail on the head and body?

Those large fish in that small tank may also be the problem. Any of them newly added?

[FMarini]

Wow-- i get to educate you guys for once.
Anorexia is a condition, initially described as declining food (where a fish suddenly stops feeding, or never starts feeding, and soon dies), followed by inability to eat and hence an anorexic state, and yes-- the fish can see themselves in the glass, and yes they have body dismorphic disorder.
You guys might want to do a google search for Hemdal and anorexia- since you won't like my hotlinking to the AAOL article

[LisaD]

maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like circular reasoning. can't fish also get the symptom of anorexia because they are suffering from an infection, poisoning, gut impaction, etc.?

so, the fish has anorexia... that is a description accurately reflecting the observation that it is not eating. but what caused the anorexia? and what can be addressed/treated - the symptom, anorexia, or the underlying condition or environment which caused the anorexia?

I don't see where the Hemdal article is in disagreement with my point?

maybe it's splitting hairs, but I realize a fish that isn't eating has anorexia. when I have the flu and am too weak to eat and too sick to keep anything down, I have anorexia too. but if I go to the doctor, him telling me I have anorexia is not useful for finding a solution.

if I had a distorted body image and refused to eat in order to control my weight, then that could be accurately identified as the psychological condition which is the eating disorder anorexia nervosa. I doubt there is much that is comparable in fish. :)

[FMarini]

Lisa-
as mentioned in the Hemdal article, there are acute and chronic conditions of anorexia. you are correct in your statements.

Yes a number of events can result in anorexia. As you know in lionfish it tends to be nutritional issues, esp in long term captives, but sure infections, poor water quality etc can result in anorexia. Sometimes when the issues resolve the acute anorexia is resolved and the fish starts eating. However as you know- frequently in lionfish, its becomes a lethal event, w/ the fish never recovering and never starting to eat again. Shy of tube feeding i've not see too many cases of anorexia in lionfish resolve themselves.
AS for the body dismorphic disorder--- i was trying (clearly unsucessfully) to be punny since Tom tried to suggest fish could have eating disorders

[LisaD]

did we scare the OP away? how is he lion doing?

[WaterKeeper]

Thanks Frank. Anorexia is a new one to me and I was kidding about bulimia in fish. ;)

[saltyguy51]

If you are going to get your nitrates to near zero in a fish only you need to have a large supply of salt and very few fish to watch feed every other day and daily water changes, there is no need of that low of nitrates (0) unless it just happens. (not) I agree there is to many fish unless they are 2-3". Now after all this on here what about your fish? Any better yet or worse? Jungle brand aquarium products has a sheet that has common disease symtoms, you might be able to find it online

[saltyguy51]

Did he get scared away?