puffer, trigger with corals?

[nemofish2217]

This might be a dumb question and one I should know the answer to but I don't. I am thinking about getting a clown trigger and a porccupine puffer along with an eel, and I know those fish are not "reef safe" but does that just mean that they will screw with your inverts or will they also munch on corals as well? i would love to have as much of a "reef tank" I can while having these fish...Is it possible? So, are there any corals you can put with them? thanks

[reeferstace]

Corals are inverts.

[nemofish2217]

Yes, so I guess you need me to be more specific... Snails, shrimp, crabs....

[psteeleb]

a Clown Trigger will almost always go after shrimp and crabs including hermits. You may get by with one when it's smaller but they are not a safe bet as they grow.

I'm not sure about snails but I suspect they would make a tasty meal also

[woodiecrafts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14071984#post14071984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemofish2217
Yes, so I guess you need me to be more specific... Snails, shrimp, crabs....

That will most likely provide them with a good lunch.

[nemofish2217]

lol, I know those guys would be doomed....what I am asking is are there any corals I can put with them? I am planning on not having shrimp, crabs, etc. but I would like if I could have some corals without them getting munched as well....

[reefergeorge]

I have a 6"+ porc, and a 2-3" picasso trigger in my reef.
The puffer was fine with a cleaner shrimp, turbos,and hermits for a year before I added the trigger. The trigger took the cleaner out in a couple days, and only left one snail alive.
Neither bother any corals, but I added some more turbos, and hermits yesterday, and they went to town. The puffer would just bite them, and spit them out still alive, but triggers are very efficient predators. He probably killed 3 turbos, and a hand full of hermits in an hour.

I have shrooms, rics, zoas, polyps, and a leather in with them.

IME stay away from dogface puffers, and corals. When I added one. He took out a large colony of my favorite zoas in one day. :(

[nemofish2217]

thanks reefergeorge...so we could maybe try our hand with some softies and maybe a few stonies but just stay away from the crabs and snails? Will this make it harder to keep the tank clean? Could I try some nassarius snails or other sand sifting organisms?

[JustinReef]

Totally depends on the individual puffer. I would say don't try a Arothron species of puffer (Dogface, Mappa, Stars and Stripes, ect.) as they tend to be quite nippy. Porcs are better but I have had them destroy reefs too. Toby Puffers (Valentini, Blue Spot, ect.) would be the worst choice usually. They nip everything.

Many puffers will work for a while but eventually they tend to eat stuff. They either get bored or curious. I would never keep a puffer with any corals you really care about.

The bigger problem though is water quality. SPS are out for sure because you will never keep nitrates down with puffers.

Really its just a bad idea. I have tried so many times and usually it just doesn't work long term unless you get lucky and like doing water changes. Keeping nitrates below 25 with a puffer in the tank is tough.

What sized tank? Pretty much any puffer you choose will need a 180 minimum. Dogface are fine in a 120 but bad choice for a reef. Since your talking about a clown trigger, I assume you have a very large tank. Clowns can get over 18"! More likely to stay around 16 though.

BTW, I would worry about most puffers hanging in there with a Clown Trigger. Clowns usually get incredibly aggressive as adults and often end up killing most tankmates. You may want to really think about the Clown.

Good luck!

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14072290#post14072290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemofish2217
thanks reefergeorge...so we could maybe try our hand with some softies and maybe a few stonies but just stay away from the crabs and snails? Will this make it harder to keep the tank clean? Could I try some nassarius snails or other sand sifting organisms?

You can try larger snails. The Nassarius snails will be eaten. Most sandsifting inverts are out as they will also be eaten. There is really not much you can do for a clean up crew. Damsels are great to clean up what the puffer does not eat. Sand sifting goby works. Make sure you get one that is eating already though.

What kind of puffer are you talking about? Would be much easier to help if we knew that. Same with tank size.

[reefergeorge]

He mentions a porc in his first post.

In my tank nassarius snails last a day or two. As soon as the little snorkel come up the trigger takes it off, and if they start up the glass the trigger attacks the foot.
My puffer isn't quit large enough to crush them, but he chomps on them a few times then spits them out.

[E.intheC]

I agree with justinpsmith.. I had a sharp nosed puffer and it would always go after my zoanthids..

[nemofish2217]

wow...thanks for the great information guys.... so a porc puffer would be a 50/50 chance at best? How do they do with other smaller fish such as hawkfish? Right now I am starting up a 75 with plans of upgrading to either 180 or 210 when the time came. so if I decided to stay away from the trigger for now but still wanted to do any eel, such as a green wolf or teltessa (sp?) would snails at least have a better chance? I know that when the eels get big enough they can potentially go for fish so I would have to try to keep him well fed and see what happens.

[reefergeorge]

My porc ate two clowns that I thought were way to big for him to eat. I found half the second one, but none of the first. I think he got them while they were sleeping. :(

A thing to think about is that mine has grown 3"+ in under two years, and has really thickened up. If you get a small one, you probably only have a couple years before an upgrade from the 75. Depending on how much rock you have.

When my GF gets home I will try to get a decent pic. All the ones I have are old, and don't look very good.

[nemofish2217]

so, i guess i might be interested in an "aggressive reef" as your tag line says....how do you have it set up as far as inhabitants and corals? thanks

[reefergeorge]

The only aggressive inhabitants are the trigger, and puffer. The others include a coral beauty, foxface, and tang.

[nemofish2217]

okay, so do you have any corals that they have left alone? I'm thinking I'd be better off trying a humu humu trigger or niger....

[downhillbiker]

i had a trigger and a puffer that would eat the expected inverts like snails and shrimp, but also ate corals. i cant tell you which corals work or dont, because i got rid of both fish immediately. the puffer also liked to bite and put cuts in the silicone around the tank. stupid fish was trying to commit suicide.

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14072373#post14072373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E.intheC
I agree with justinpsmith.. I had a sharp nosed puffer and it would always go after my zoanthids..

Puffers seem to love to eat Zoo's. I had a dogface that cleared out a tank of Zoo's in a few days.

If you want to set up an aggressive reef, you need to start with a large tank with an overrated skimmer. I would say at least a 180 if you plan to keep a porc long term. Maybe a 150 but he may outgrow it eventually. Personally I have always run ozone on my aggressive tanks and would always do so. You are just going to need to make sure you work out some great filtration or nitrates will go out of control and corals will not survive long or at least will not look good.

Stick to soft corals like leathers, gorgonians (may get nipped though), mushrooms, ect. Maybe some LPS but I find puffers like to nip the skeletons.

I have always used damsels as a clean up crew to eat all the little pieces the puffer spits out and leaves. You can also have hermit crabs but they don't last too long and you have to replace them. I found if I replaced them once a month and got big ones, some at least would last a while. I even had some that seemed smart enough to hide in rocks and live years with puffers.

Its really an experiment with aggressive fish in a reef. I would say just take it slow and see what the fish allow.

You can have a great aggressive reef but it does take some work. Worth it though ;)

BTW, Niger Triggers get quite big and aggressive too. Have you thought of a Blue throat (males are nice) or a Pink Tail? They are great for a reef. If you don't mind spending a bunch, the Crosshatch is about the nicest of the reef safe triggers.

[Wrench]

Why not go with one of the reef safe triggers? I had a beautiful pinktail trigger in my reef that was a great fish. Never bothered anything. There is also the blue throat and crosshatch.

[reefergeorge]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14072615#post14072615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemofish2217
okay, so do you have any corals that they have left alone? I'm thinking I'd be better off trying a humu humu trigger or niger....

Yes, The only problem was when I tried adding a dogface. He ate a bunch of zoas on day two. He found his way into a club members tank quick.

In the tank with the porc, and humma I have never had any problems keeping zoas, polyps, shrooms, rics, and a leather.

I tried getting a measurement of the porc. He is right a 7" counting tail. He is almost ready for a new tank, but i'm waiting for the right deal on a 180-220.

Here is a year old pic from the side. The whole gang is there. I will get a better one tomorrow if I remember.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/rgeorge4651/SDC10211-1-1.jpg

[stagcrazy]

i had a vallentini puffer that went to town on my open brains,zoos,anything he got a hold off he never killed a fish but ate everything else.