Zeo Question

[R.W.]

When using the Zeo method do you also run a 'refugium or rely on the reactor alone to remove Po4 and nitrates?

[DARKSILENTTYPE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14254138#post14254138 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
When using the Zeo method do you also run a 'refugium or rely on the reactor alone to remove Po4 and nitrates?


If your running a refugium already its fine when you start . As your PO4 gets lower your calupa will start to die off .


I don't use my sump for anything anymore except for my carbon,skimmer and reactor for the zeo reactor .

Hope this helped

DST

[R.W.]

Right now I am having a hard time keeping my nutrients down and would like to start the zeo method. I am in the process of designing a new sump and i was wondering if i can skip out on the fuge and have more room for equipment.

Currently I am running a 5g fuge with cheato and gracila.. something(red). Do the majority of zeo users use a refuge at all? Another reason I am wondering if i can get away with it all together is because the cheato traps everything and I have to clean it everyday.

[Ty1e]

R.W., none of us Zeo guys use refuge's. The Zeo system brings PO4 done to undetectable levels, other wise know as a ULN system or ultra low nutrient system; what ever you used in the refuge would die.

have you down loaded the Zeo guide yet?

[Todd March]

That's one of the advantages to Zeo, no fuge and a more compact system... But it's no miracle worker, and you need to be patient with it if your system is already established; it won't lower your nutrients over night. It's much slower than say vodka dosing. 3-6 months is not uncommon for it to balance out for established tanks...

Check out the guide and zeovit.com for sure...!

[R.W.]

I quickly skimmed through that guide a while ago and have been meaning to thoroughly read through it. Ty1e, thats what I was thinking but thought I should ask just to be sure. I also do browse the Zeovit.com forums and have also seen you post many times Todd March.
Thanks for the help guys.

Another question:
What brand/model of reactor should I buy? I am looking for something that will last, isn't built cheap, quiet, and is pretty much plug and play. I have approx 120g total.

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14254983#post14254983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ty1e
R.W., none of us Zeo guys use refuge's. The Zeo system brings PO4 done to undetectable levels, other wise know as a ULN system or ultra low nutrient system; what ever you used in the refuge would die.

have you down loaded the Zeo guide yet?


Not in my case, I have used both Zeo with refuge more than 1 1/2 years. It's just fine for me.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14255430#post14255430 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
Another question:
What brand/model of reactor should I buy? I am looking for something that will last, isn't built cheap, quiet, and is pretty much plug and play. I have approx 120g total.

I highly recommend the Vertex Zeo reactor. It's VERY affordable and very effective and easy to live with. It has really surpassed my expectations, and is by far the best Zeo reactor I have used out of 4 over the last 5 years...

The build quality is very good and solid, but the Vertex's only drawback in my opinion is the "ReSun" Taiwanese pump it comes with—a Sedra 2000 clone. The ReSun is loud and vibrat-eeee when attached to the reactor (this pump has a terrible reputation for quality all over Asia). You may however be able to live with it if money is tight. I replaced mine with a bonefide Sedra 2000, and it's much quieter and easier to live with.

The Vertex's twin tube design pumps and agitates the stones great and with minimal effort and never jams at all, and due to the o-rings in the lid and in the hole for the handle, never a drop of tank water spills out, no matter how hard you pump the stones (but be sure to lubricate these o-rings with silicone grease, or you will never be able to pump the unit!); and the Vertex holds a high water level if you choose to turn the pump on and off (for a 3 hour on/off cycle for faster nutrient reduction, but the stones must stay submerged!), keeping the Zeolite completely submerged.

The Vertex really is a no-brainer for me, and a win-win among Zeo Reactors, IME (even if you have to totally replace the ReSun pump)...

[R.W.]

With that vertex reactor what size would I need for my tank? 1.5L or 3.0L ?

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14258684#post14258684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
With that vertex reactor what size would I need for my tank? 1.5L or 3.0L ?

90 gallon, right? You would need almost one liter of the Zeo stones, so the 1.5L would work great, a little over half filled (this is exactly what I use for my 85g)...

[moo0o]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14254138#post14254138 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
When using the Zeo method do you also run a 'refugium or rely on the reactor alone to remove Po4 and nitrates?


i use the reactor alone. i used to have cheato in my fuge but it stopped growing about 2-3 months into zeo.

imo, a fuge isnt needed with running zeo, unless you are using it for purposes other than lower nitrates.

hope that helps!

[R.W.]

Thanks for the responses guys. ATB medium on your 90g??? you planning an upgrade soon? Been looking at the ATB Small for mine.
I found a package deal for the Vertex 1.5L reactor which include the following for $199.95 CAD:
* Vertex 1.5 Litre ZEOVit Filter - The basis of the ZEOVit system. Easily fits into any sump, or can be run externally.
* 10ml ZEObak - The bacterial strains to help populate and replenish your aquarium.
* 50ml ZEOfood - Food to help increase and maintain your bacteria population - helping to reduce nitrites and nitrates.
* 250ml ZEOstart - Color enhancing, bacterial growth promoting solution. Excellent for new and established systems.
* 1000ml ZEOVit - The media for the ZEOVit filter. Helps reduce phosphates and nitrates in the saltwater aquarium.

OR

For $349.95 CAD
* Vertex 1.5 Litre ZEOVit Filter - The basis of the ZEOVit system. Easily fits into any sump, or can be run externally.
* 10ml ZEObak - The bacterial strains to help populate and replenish your aquarium.
* 50ml ZEOfood - Food to help increase and maintain your bacteria population - helping to reduce nitrites and nitrates.
* 250ml ZEOstart - Color enhancing, bacterial growth promoting solution. Excellent for new and established systems.
* 1000ml ZEOVit - The media for the ZEOVit filter. Helps reduce phosphates and nitrates in the saltwater aquarium.
* 50ml Amino Acid Concentrate - Amino Acids aiding in the growth, coloration, and injury recover in all corals and clams.
* 250ml Coral Snow - Improves water clarity and skimate production, helping to reduce dissolved organics and algae.
* 250ml Pohl's K-Balance Potassium - Maintains Potassium levels in the aquarium which can effect growth and coloration if too low.
* 50ml Pohl's Coral Vitalizer - Food for the aquariums corals. Helps with coloration and polyp extension.
* 250ml Pohl's Xtra Concentrate - Helps to increase coral growth and coloration in all stony corals.


Which is a better package?

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14259981#post14259981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
Thanks for the responses guys. ATB medium on your 90g??? you planning an upgrade soon? Been looking at the ATB Small for mine.
I found a package deal for the Vertex 1.5L reactor which include the following for $199.95 CAD:
* Vertex 1.5 Litre ZEOVit Filter - The basis of the ZEOVit system. Easily fits into any sump, or can be run externally.
* 10ml ZEObak - The bacterial strains to help populate and replenish your aquarium.
* 50ml ZEOfood - Food to help increase and maintain your bacteria population - helping to reduce nitrites and nitrates.
* 250ml ZEOstart - Color enhancing, bacterial growth promoting solution. Excellent for new and established systems.
* 1000ml ZEOVit - The media for the ZEOVit filter. Helps reduce phosphates and nitrates in the saltwater aquarium.

OR

For $349.95 CAD
* Vertex 1.5 Litre ZEOVit Filter - The basis of the ZEOVit system. Easily fits into any sump, or can be run externally.
* 10ml ZEObak - The bacterial strains to help populate and replenish your aquarium.
* 50ml ZEOfood - Food to help increase and maintain your bacteria population - helping to reduce nitrites and nitrates.
* 250ml ZEOstart - Color enhancing, bacterial growth promoting solution. Excellent for new and established systems.
* 1000ml ZEOVit - The media for the ZEOVit filter. Helps reduce phosphates and nitrates in the saltwater aquarium.
* 50ml Amino Acid Concentrate - Amino Acids aiding in the growth, coloration, and injury recover in all corals and clams.
* 250ml Coral Snow - Improves water clarity and skimate production, helping to reduce dissolved organics and algae.
* 250ml Pohl's K-Balance Potassium - Maintains Potassium levels in the aquarium which can effect growth and coloration if too low.
* 50ml Pohl's Coral Vitalizer - Food for the aquariums corals. Helps with coloration and polyp extension.
* 250ml Pohl's Xtra Concentrate - Helps to increase coral growth and coloration in all stony corals.


Which is a better package?

If you're serious about getting into Zeo, the second more expensive package is a good deal. You will probably want to try all the extras like Coral Snow, Aminos and Coral Vitilizer,etc...

However these things will not be needed for at least a couple of months after starting the basic 4 (maybe aminos and Coral Snow a little sooner). So if money's an issue, you don't need these things right off. Just the basic 4 and reactor. And you don't need to use any of the extras ultimately, but most get curious after they see what just the basic 4 can do....

[R.W.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14260026#post14260026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Todd March
If you're serious about getting into Zeo, the second more expensive package is a good deal. You will probably want to try all the extras like Coral Snow, Aminos and Coral Vitilizer,etc...

However these things will not be needed for at least a couple of months after starting the basic 4 (maybe aminos and Coral Snow a little sooner). So if money's an issue, you don't need these things right off. Just the basic 4 and reactor. And you don't need to use any of the extras ultimately, but most get curious after they see what just the basic 4 can do....

Thats what i thought. I know eventually I would like to experiment but for the first little while I would only use the basic stuff.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14260409#post14260409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
Thats what i thought. I know eventually I would like to experiment but for the first little while I would only use the basic stuff.

Doing this also gives you a good feel for what just the basic 4, the base Zeo system, can do. After you get that down, the other supplement's effect's will be much more noticable, or not...

[moo0o]

i am actually...i guess you can say downgrading to an elos system 70 soon. i plan on either buying the ATB multi purpose or ATB small external.

IMO, get the ATB small for your 90, you wont regret it, it is the best skimmer ive had to date.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14260504#post14260504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moo0o
i am actually...i guess you can say downgrading to an elos system 70 soon. i plan on either buying the ATB multi purpose or ATB system external.

IMO, get the ATB small for your 90, you wont regret it, it is the best skimmer ive had to date.

It's true, the ATB has really impressed me... It's so much faster to form a foam head and have it overflow into skimmate than any other skimmer I have used. Much, much faster than my external recirculating Deltec... Highly recommend ATB...

[R.W.]

Well the two im looking at are the ATB Small and the Warner Marine k2. Leaning towards the ATB though since they have been out for a while and the customer service seems great.

[Canarygirl]

R.W., that's an awesome butterflyfish in your avatar. What kind is it?

[Todd March]

R.W., have you looked at AB's new Econo model? It is Sicce driven with a custom volute that ends the Sicce's issue of restarting problems. It's a good little German skimmer for about the same money (or maybe is the same) as the WM... It has a little thinner acrylic construction than the regular small, I think, and does not come totally apart, but again the price is much better too...

You can find it HERE (http://www.atbskimmers.com/products/inventory.php?category=Econo%20Cone%20Skimmers).

[Dave's Reef]

Todd,

I haven't looked myself but could you tell me where you got your Sedra 2000? I'm planning on getting the Vertex Zeo reactor in April when I'm done with my remaining Prodibio, and I'd like as close to silence as I can get with my new aquarium acquisitions...

My tank is a center piece in the business I own and I don't want it to be a nuisance in terms of noise...

Thanks

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14266375#post14266375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dave's Reef
Todd,

I haven't looked myself but could you tell me where you got your Sedra 2000? I'm planning on getting the Vertex Zeo reactor in April when I'm done with my remaining Prodibio, and I'd like as close to silence as I can get with my new aquarium acquisitions...

My tank is a center piece in the business I own and I don't want it to be a nuisance in terms of noise...

Thanks

My Sedra came with my Proline Auger Zeo reactor, which was one of the worst pieces of aquarium equipment I have ever had the displeasure of buying. And I paid $300 for it too...!

I had my dealer contact Proline with my displeasure with daily stone jams, and after one of the holes in the acrylic cracked under the bottom Uniseal within 3 days of use...

Proline agreed to replace the unit with a Vertex reactor, and never asked for the old Auger unit back. I just used the Sedra from the Auger on the Vertex. The Sedra and ReSun look identical, but they sound (and vibrate) very different...!

A Sedra 2000 should not be hard to find. I think I have seen them on the net for around $30-$40....

Mind you, though, that the Vertex (and all Zeo reactors I have seen) are hard plumbed and will end up making a bit of noise due to this—regardless of the pump, short of maybe an Eheim (which you might be able to DIY fit...?) If you are shooting for a completely silent system, it might be a problem. I can only hear it when I open the cabinet and pay attention. I don't consider it that bad, and over my Vortech and the slight trickle of my overflow I can't hear it; but I have seen totally silent systems where it might be a problem...?

[R.W.]

I thought about the Econo model but I don't know how hard it could be to clean the inside of it since it doesn't come apart. Victor said the Small is also quieter than the Econo model which I would prefer. I am undecided on which model to order.

[R.W.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264799#post14264799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
R.W., that's an awesome butterflyfish in your avatar. What kind is it?

Its a Chaetodon meyeri or Scrawled butterflyfish or aka "Tim's (Meyerst) Butterfly
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/speciessummary.php?id=5568

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14268482#post14268482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
I thought about the Econo model but I don't know how hard it could be to clean the inside of it since it doesn't come apart. Victor said the Small is also quieter than the Econo model which I would prefer. I am undecided on which model to order.

Coming completely apart is a really nice feature, no doubt. But to be honest, after years of living with skimmers, if you run the dirty skimmer in a bucket of vinegar-water (the more vinegar the better), or even better yet muriatic acid, for a few hours a couple of times a year, it will come very clean all on the inside (particularly with muriatic, which will require next to NO scrubbing)... And something to consider, even though my Small comes apart, I still have to soak the seperate parts in vinegar to get all the calcificated organisms off of it...!But, again, yes, it's easier to reach the parts for scrubbing when they are all seperated (though with muriatic this is a moot point).

And yes, the Eheim is quieter for sure, but unless you are making a dedicated effort for a really quiet system, as in a Eheim or Poseidon return pump, and a dual standpipe syphon system, and minimal fans cooling your lights, the difference between the Sicce and Eheim isn't all that dramatic among the myriad of other noises a system makes...

[rkaires]

quote:Originally posted by Dave's Reef
Todd,

I haven't looked myself but could you tell me where you got your Sedra 2000? I'm planning on getting the Vertex Zeo reactor in April when I'm done with my remaining Prodibio, and I'd like as close to silence as I can get with my new aquarium acquisitions...

My tank is a center piece in the business I own and I don't want it to be a nuisance in terms of noise...

Thanks


I installed an Eheim 1048 on my Vertex reactor a couple weeks ago. No noise at all.

[Canarygirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14268510#post14268510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by R.W.
Its a Chaetodon meyeri or Scrawled butterflyfish or aka "Tim's (Meyerst) Butterfly
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/speciessummary.php?id=5568

..."feeds exclusively on coral polyps." Thank-you! Good information to have. ;)

[Rueg]

The Vertex can be run out of sump? Anybody actually running it that way?

Thanks.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14272179#post14272179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkaires
I installed an Eheim 1048 on my Vertex reactor a couple weeks ago. No noise at all.

rkaires, I've though about installing a 1048 for some time. Was there any mods you needed to outfit the 1048 to the Vertex? Are you using the 1.5L Vertex? Did you just have to screw the Eheim on and VIOLA! All set?

[precko]

I have just changed from the aquabee pump to an Eheim 1048 on my KZ zeo reactor, only additional piece I needed to connect it was some 16-22mm Eheim hose, which luckily I had lying around anyway :D really tight fit so is not coming off easily. Must say that the Eheim makes the Aquabee up1000 look like a piece of junk, oh and it runs silent!

http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq271/precko/reactorpump.jpg

[rkaires]

Todd March,
To install an Eheim 1048 on my Vertex 1.5l reactor I cut the base plate the original pump sits on so the reactor base looks square like the KZ reactor base. The female slip adaptor that comes with the 1048 pump will fit perfect on the male fitting that goes into the stock pump. I just trimmed the male fitting a little and installed those stick on rubber feet to the bottom of the Eheim. It only took about 15min to do and it works like a charm. Hope this helps.

[Dave's Reef]

Could you supply us with a pic? This sounds like the way to go for me, I think the Eheim is a better pump anyway...

Thanks

Todd March,
To install an Eheim 1048 on my Vertex 1.5l reactor I cut the base plate the original pump sits on so the reactor base looks square like the KZ reactor base. The female slip adaptor that comes with the 1048 pump will fit perfect on the male fitting that goes into the stock pump. I just trimmed the male fitting a little and installed those stick on rubber feet to the bottom of the Eheim. It only took about 15min to do and it works like a charm. Hope this helps.

[Ty1e]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14255835#post14255835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by F35-Joint Strike Fighter
Not in my case, I have used both Zeo with refuge more than 1 1/2 years. It's just fine for me.

That's intresting F-35, if you ask most of the guys on the zeo forum don't run them and will tell you that it's not needed, just like running phosban in the system.

If i remeber right i think the zeo guide tells you to just run carbon in a filter sock to absorb chem's tanin's and filter the water clear.

it would be intresting to see you sump and your results from doing this, I posted a thread on zeovit about use mangroves in the sump for filtering and most of the guys there said you don't need it.

thanks for that info.;)

[Ty1e]

I like my vertex RX, but the sedra pump is loud, i keep my sump pretty full and my skimmer pours into the sump and i can hear the pump over all of that.
here are some pics.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/ty1e/P1010002.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/ty1e/P1010005.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/ty1e/P1010006.jpg

[Todd March]

Tyson, when you say "Sedra" do you mean the stock "ReSun" Sedra clone that ships with the Vertex...? I too found this pump LOUD...

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14277586#post14277586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkaires
Todd March,
To install an Eheim 1048 on my Vertex 1.5l reactor I cut the base plate the original pump sits on so the reactor base looks square like the KZ reactor base. The female slip adaptor that comes with the 1048 pump will fit perfect on the male fitting that goes into the stock pump. I just trimmed the male fitting a little and installed those stick on rubber feet to the bottom of the Eheim. It only took about 15min to do and it works like a charm. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Bob, that sounds easy and great... Going to go ahead and order the Eheim...!

[einsteins]

Hi Todd and rkaires

How is flow controlled in the reactor pictured above.

It seems that Eheim might put out more flow than what would be optimal for the Zeo.

Thanks
eins

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14279796#post14279796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by einsteins
Hi Todd and rkaires

How is flow controlled in the reactor pictured above.

It seems that Eheim might put out more flow than what would be optimal for the Zeo.

Thanks
eins

The Vertex comes hard plumbed, and includes an inline ball valve for adjusting the flow (Zeovit has a certain optimal flow rate for their zeolites); which is why I asked rkaires about how it would fit—because of the true union at the end of the reactor's plumbing, where the pump fits onto, not any ol' pump will fit, they can only be so high (or so wide due to close placement next to the reactors body) due to the Vertex's hard plumbing and the placement of the true union...

And the Eheim 1048 actually only puts out 150 GPH, so it would be a better choice for those running the 1.5L unit, as the ReSun pump that comes stock with it (or the Sedra 2000 I use) pump 200 GPH, and you will need to turn the flow down even more with these pumps, translating into more head pressure for the pump, which in the long run will probably mean a little shorter pump life. Eheims too are really good with extra head pressure, very durable, so besides being silent, it's just a much better pump choice overall...

[revaltion131]

I use an adjustable-flow pump for mine. A ball valve may be a possibility.

[takayan]

Does Vertex Zeo reactor have a flow control?

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14279101#post14279101 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ty1e
That's intresting F-35, if you ask most of the guys on the zeo forum don't run them and will tell you that it's not needed, just like running phosban in the system.

If i remeber right i think the zeo guide tells you to just run carbon in a filter sock to absorb chem's tanin's and filter the water clear.

it would be intresting to see you sump and your results from doing this, I posted a thread on zeovit about use mangroves in the sump for filtering and most of the guys there said you don't need it.

thanks for that info.;)


I will post pics if it is OK with the thread owner.

[revaltion131]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14280379#post14280379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by takayan
Does Vertex Zeo reactor have a flow control?

From reading Todd's post, it does. I had to get a custom one to fit my area, though.

[Ty1e]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14279606#post14279606 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Todd March
Tyson, when you say "Sedra" do you mean the stock "ReSun" Sedra clone that ships with the Vertex...? I too found this pump LOUD...
Hey Todd, yes it's the pump that comes with the RX, it is loud.
It comes with a ball valve to regulate the flow to the Rx.

[R.W.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14280660#post14280660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by F35-Joint Strike Fighter
I will post pics if it is OK with the thread owner.

Post some pics, I am very interested in this too.

[cnaegler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14280379#post14280379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by takayan
Does Vertex Zeo reactor have a flow control?

Yes. They installed a ball valve into the hard plumbing for flow control. I personally have the 3l Vertex model and can say that it's a fine piece of equipment, even my pump is quiet!