View Full Version : Kold-Ster-Il
EnglishRebel
01/28/2009, 01:37 PM
I did a forum search on a Kold-Ster-Il water filter but came up empty. Anyone got any opinion on these versus a regular RO/DI unit? It claims to remove all the bad stuff like heavy metals, phosphates, bacteria, pesticides, etc., but leaves the good stuff such as calcium and magnesium.
This from their web site: Poly Bio Marine (http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/products.html)
The Kold Ster-il® doesn't remove calcium, magnesium divalent cations nor strip the water's alkaline reserve.
The main thing is that it produces no waste water and runs at 3.8 GPM and costs about the same or a little higher than a good RO/DI unit
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/28/2009, 02:26 PM
I'm not a big fan of it. Here are some discuss threads:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11235
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1273594
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1096431
EnglishRebel
01/29/2009, 07:46 AM
Randy
Thanks for the links. I didn't realize that this has been out for years -- I thought it was some new system. I emailed them a question about leaching chemicals out of RO/DI water. Here's my question and their response. Do you have any comments? BTW I use a polyethylene container for both RO/DI and SW.
Thanks
Question
I read the information on your web site about RO water absorbing
chemicals from the container. Are you saying that the water from the
Kold Ster-il unit does not do that?
Answer
Correct,
If you use a container rated for potable water the Kold Ster-il (r)
filtered water will not leach organics, metals or chemicals out
of the plastic storage container.
R/O + D. I. water is very aggressive it adsorbs all gasses out
of the air and any leachable materials out of the plastic container.
R/O + D. I. water should be stored in sealed air tight, container rated
for ultra pure water. Any mixing done using ultra pure water should
be performed under sealed air free conditions. This information is
available under A .S. T. M. Standards for high purity water.
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/29/2009, 03:46 PM
Marketing stuff. Ridiculously stupid marketing stuff. Nothing of consequence to be worried about. Just use a decent trash can like a Brute. :)
For example, do you care if gases from the air enter the water? Of course not. And it is no different with pure water than tap water. The dissolves gases will be the same. They don't even deny that the Kold stuff does it too.
EnglishRebel
01/30/2009, 02:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14273015#post14273015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Marketing stuff. Ridiculously stupid marketing stuff. Nothing of consequence to be worried about. Just use a decent trash can like a Brute. :)
For example, do you care if gases from the air enter the water? Of course not. And it is no different with pure water than tap water. The dissolves gases will be the same. They don't even deny that the Kold stuff does it too.
Interesting. I have a polyethylene tank which is closed and has a screw cap that is vented. I know that you cannot use copper with RO water as I guess it leaches the sulphate out correct?
Thanks
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/30/2009, 03:19 PM
Sulfate?
You cannot use copper pipes because it dissolves copper into the water. Tap water does too. So will Kold Steril Water. :)
Plato
01/30/2009, 05:22 PM
I have a Kold Steril unit. I have used it for may years. I have many friends with them as well. The only thing in common is well water. We have low pressure so it works great as it needs no booster pump. I don't run a kalk reactor either, so I don't need super pure water. I have a MaxCap ro/di with a booster pump to make super pure water when I make stock Mg and St solution , and so on. The Kold Steril does it job and makes my drinking water. It is more cost efficent to run that my ro/di unit but not a big factor. I use a 10" whole house filter with a u-fill canister filled with Rowaphos after the Kold Sterl unit to absorb any phosphate. I check it monthly but usually get more than a year out of the media. Oops, I think I forgot to mention I run the Ro/Di with pump the wast water from the Ro/Di unit then goes to the Kold Steril, it has a measuralbe amount more Ca than the standar tap due to the ro concentrate. I use them both and enjoy them both. Depends on what you need water wise as to what will work best for you situation.
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/30/2009, 05:44 PM
I don't run a kalk reactor either, so I don't need super pure water.
Why does such a reactor require purer water than other ways to top off?
Plato
01/30/2009, 06:21 PM
I have found that when a kalk reactor is used inline with automated top off systems the ro/di water performs better than when used with tap water (Kold Steral filtered).
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/30/2009, 07:57 PM
I have no doubt that making limewater is better accomplished with RO/DI, since various ions in the tap water may make some insoluble impurities that settle out. Such as calcium carbonate. If that is what you mean, I agree that RO/DI is best. :)
Plato
01/30/2009, 10:13 PM
Yes, water being the universal solvant can only hold so much stuff befor super saturation. The Kold Steral unit leavs much more than, wate alote more than my ro/di. My MaxCap unit has an average of 150ppm % TDS and 0 coming out. The Kold Steral seams to stay the same 150 in 150 out plus being a well system I am sure the di cartriges remove co2 that has disolved as carbonic acid where as the Kold Steral will just pass. I know that kalkwasser does not get along with CO2.
I’ve been using my Kold Ster-il unit for 4 years and appreciate its convenience and low operating cost. When adding water, I simply hook a 30-foot hose to the Kold Ster-il unit to bring filtered water on demand to the aquarium. There is no waste water, no need for a holding tank or pump, and no need for frequent filter changes.
While the unit does not filter everything from tap water, my tests do show zero chlorine, nitrates and nitrites. Phosphate initially leached from the new carbon filter but became undetectable in subsequent tests. Silica is not filtered and its presence in my water supply (1 to 3 ppm) did result in an early diatom bloom but these blooms have not reoccurred since my tank became established.
Before deciding on a Kold Ster-il unit, you may want to test your tap water for high levels of Si, Mg, Ca and other minerals that the unit does not filter. If you have high levels of Mg or Ca, you may want to compensate with a salt mixture that has less of these minerals.
You cannot compensate for high levels of silica with a salt mixture but in my aquarium, silica tends to drop to undetectable levels within a few days so it is being consumed. I suspected that my GFO reactor may be filtering the silica but the phosphate level is also undetectable so the medium is apparently not being exhausted.
If your water supply is of consistent quality, I would consider a Kold Ster-il unit before a RO-DI unit.
Randy Holmes-Farley
01/31/2009, 03:40 PM
Does it remove ammonia that comes from chloramine?
Does it remove copper well?
EnglishRebel
01/31/2009, 04:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14287872#post14287872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Does it remove ammonia that comes from chloramine?
That's interesting Randy as one of the things that they mentioned to me was to check to see if my local water company adds chloramine as I guess that their unit does not remove it.
Good question! My water district does not use chloramine. Nevertheless, my Salifert test kit detects no ammonia in the Kold Ster-il effluent.
I do not have a copper test kit but will order one.
Justjoe
01/31/2009, 06:55 PM
In the past I was told the Kold Steril unit did not remove PO4's, but if they were to include a PO4 remover (I think it was alumina based) the flow rate needs to be dramatically slowed down for the PO4 to be removed, as in RO/DI production flow rates.
This was years back, so not sure if there have been any design changes.
EnglishRebel
02/01/2009, 06:05 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14288968#post14288968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Justjoe
In the past I was told the Kold Steril unit did not remove PO4's, but if they were to include a PO4 remover (I think it was alumina based) the flow rate needs to be dramatically slowed down for the PO4 to be removed, as in RO/DI production flow rates.
This was years back, so not sure if there have been any design changes.
that is correct.
Using the Hach PO-19 and D&D Merck kits, I repeated phosphate (PO4) measurements of my tap water and my Kold Ster-il effluent. My Kold Ster-il unit does not have an alumna stage to remove phosphate. Four tests were conducted:
1. Tap water using Hach PO-19
2. Kold Ster-il using Hach PO-19
3. Tap water using D&D Merck
4. Kold Ster-il using D&D Merck
All 4 tests show undetectable levels of phosphate (below 0.03 ppm). The only test that detected phosphate was made after I initially installed my Kold Ster-il unit 4 years ago in 2005. Poly-Bio Marine claimed that phosphate was leaching from the new carbon filtration stage. The phosphate level became undetectable soon thereafter.
I understand that tap water quality is not uniform at all locales. I agree that testing your tap water for phosphate, silica and other minerals not removed by the Kold Ster-il unit is advised before purchasing this unit.
If your tap water phosphate levels are high, I’m not sure if purchasing an alumina stage for a Kold Ster-il unit is a good idea. Perhaps someone else can expound on alumina filtration.
Later this week, I will post additional test results for copper and water hardness to compare my tap water with the Kold Ster-il effluent.
Justjoe
02/01/2009, 03:48 PM
I initially looked at Kold steril for its fast production rate (big tank here) but was very disappointed when I found it didn't remove PO4's, as that for me is THE major concern with using a water purifier for reef top off. And to only find out afterwards that it didn't remove PO4's while being advertised for use with reef tanks was a bit frustrating...
Perhaps a post Koldsteril large canister with some GFO would allow a fast flow/ production rate.
Adding a GFO filtration stage sounds good but what is the phosphate level in your tap water?
Here are additional tests that compare my tap water with the Kold Ster-il effluent.
<table border>
<caption><b>Water Tests</b></caption>
<tr><th>Test Kit<th>Substance Tested<th>Tap Water<th>Kold Ster-il<th>Comments</tr>
<tr><td>Instant Ocean<td>Copper<td>< 0.05 mg/L<td><< 0.05 mg/L<td>Lighter color in Kold Ster-il test</tr>
<tr><td>Salifert<td>KH/Alk<td>5.1 dKH (1.83 meq/L)<td>4.8 dKh (1.71 meq/L)<td>Tests repeated - same results</tr>
</table>
Poly Bio Marine claims that its Kold Ster-il unit reduces copper levels (http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/epastandards.html). The copper levels in my tap water and in my Kold-Ster-il effluent are below what the Instant Ocean Copper kit can measure. Nevertheless, the color intensity of the Kold Ster-il test sample is less than that of the tap water test sample, suggesting a lower level of copper in the Kold Ster-il effluent.
I don't think that Poly Bio Marine claims any reduction in alkalinity and little was found. Nevertheless, I repeated my alkalinity tests and the two test series both show the same slight reduction in alkalinity.
When I have time, I'll run tests for calcium and magnesium. What other substances are expected in tap water?
Randy Holmes-Farley
02/11/2009, 06:04 AM
What other substances are expected in tap water?
Lead, copper, ammonia/chloramine, chlorine, phosphate, nitrate, possibly organics, silicate, etc. I detail my concern with tap water here:
Tap Water in Reef Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm
I've added more tests that compare my tap water with the Kold Ster-il effluent.
<table border>
<caption><b>Water Tests</b></caption>
<tr><th>Test Kit<th>Substance Tested<th>Tap Water<th>Kold Ster-il<th>Comments</tr>
<tr><td>Salifert<td>Ammonia (NH3)<td>0 mg/L<td>0 mg/L<td>Undetectable</tr>
<tr><td>Sera<td>Chlorine (Cl)<td>0 mg/L<td>0 mg/L<td>Chloramine not used</tr>
<tr><td>Instant Ocean<td>Copper (Cu)<td>< 0.05 mg/L<td><< 0.05 mg/L<td>Lighter color in Kold Ster-il test</tr>
<tr><td>Salifert<td>KH/Alk<td>5.1 dKH (1.83 meq/L)<td>4.8 dKh (1.71 meq/L)<td>Tests repeated - same results</tr>
<tr><td>Salifert<td>Nitrate (NO3)<td>0 mg/L<td>0 mg/L<td>Undetectable</tr>
<tr><td>D-D Merck<td>Phosphate (PO4)<td>< 0.024 mg/L<td>< 0.024 mg/L<td>Undetectable</tr>
<tr><td>Hach SI-5<td>Silica (SiO2)<td>14 mg/L<td>14 mg/L<td>No silica filtration</tr>
</table>
The Salifert Silica test kit only measures about 3 mg/L of siliconoxide in the same water. It does not appear to be accurate at high levels.
Later, I'll perform calcium and magnesium testing on my tap water, Kold Ster-il effluent, and Instant Ocean salt solution.
mingxu
05/06/2009, 04:51 PM
I check water chemistry to ( city of chicago). The total phosphate level ranges from 0.85 to 1.42 mg /l. Can I use Kold steril filter system?
bertoni
05/07/2009, 12:28 AM
They seem to recommend using an alumina filter in their systems to remove phosphate, and alumina might be problematic for the corals, so I'd find another approach.
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