Stocking Q's for a 120g Long (60"l * 18"w * 26"h)

[AwkwardParrot]

Well, like the title says, I have a Perfecto 120g long tank. It is set up for a FOWLR. I have reef experience, and am looking for input on stocking in fish only.


P.S. : I like tangs, surgeons, puffers, anthias, angels, triggers, and pretty much anything.

Thanks,
Ron

[LisaD]

I used to have one of these, I really liked it. It ended up being too small for what I ultimately wanted, but a nice sized tank.

I think you could manage:

dogface puffer
mimic tang or one of the other smaller tangs (I like mimics best)
moderate sized angel (not one of the huge ones) or several dwarf
Australian harlequin tuskfish
maybe a snowflake eel

I would not put Anthias in with this type of aggressive mix. they need to be fed several times a day, and I think would do better in a more passive environment.

for angelfish, maybe a majestic, OR one or a pair of Genicanthus, OR something like a goldflake, scribbled, black poma. if you get an emperor, like I did, you will have to upgrade to a larger tank.

IME dogface puffers and tuskfish are not very aggressive, and may not do well with most triggers. the only triggers small enough for your tank are in the Rhinocanthus or Sufflamen family. The blue throat triggers are passive, and stay "small", but are active swimmers and will need, IMO, a bigger tank.

[anbosu]

I have a tank with the same dimensions and here is my current stocklist.
Six Line Soapfish
Lunare Wrasse
Huma Huma Trigger
Mimic Tang
Snowflake Eel
The soapfish (or grouper) is the biggest fish in the tank at probably six inches. The eel is about 10-12", the wrasse is 5 inches with streamers, and the huma huma and mimic are both juveniles in the 2-3" range. Once these fish are fully grown the tank will be fully stocked IMO.

[mattsilvester]

I would start by asking the question do you want true FO / FOWLR or would you like to include a clean up crew. For quite some time now I have considered my clean up crew inexpendible, and thus have kept away from "critter eaters" - but that is by no means a recommendation - its just a matter of preference.

Your tank is a nice sized tank - but as you will quickly come to realise (or may already know) it is not a "big" tank by FO standards. To that end, I would suggest that you rule out some of the larger speceis from the outset - such as most large angels (pomocanthus, holocanthus, etc.), naso tangs, and large triggers like nigers etc. That is not to say you cannot get juv. fish, grow them on for a eyar or two, then sell them on - personally though I don't like that idea.

Really, I would be aiming for fish that are not super active and tend to remain under 8". I personally like to use the rule of thumb that a tank should be a minimum of 6-8 times the length of the fish and 2-3 times from-to-back. For slower, less active tend to the 6x2.... for a more active ones 8x3......

Angels - really I would only consider the navarchus or passer on the basis of size...... the latter is super aggressive though. Tangs..... all the usual suspects should be fine except naso / sailfin / sohal. Triggers - picasso would be a nice one (huma huma). Puffers - not much experience here personally. Lions - you could change a volitans, but I'd a tank that is 24"x24" for that..... smaller lions should do well though. THere are lots of wrasse to choose from - and of course butterflies (but that depends on aggression levels).

As to how many fish - really it depends on (a) opinion & preference, (b) the set up, (c) the maintenance regime, (d) the actual fish species...... plus many other factors but they are the main ones n my opinion.

HTH to get you started.

Matt

[AwkwardParrot]

Wow, a lot to think about. I guess i want a FO tank. As far as a clean-up crew, thats me. I don't mind doing water changes and reaching into the tank. I am have a 55g tank as a sump, am in the market for a large skimmer. i am running chaeto and sand in a fuge area. the 55 is about 3/4 filled with water, a large filter area, and return area.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14300318#post14300318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AwkwardParrot
Wow, a lot to think about. I guess i want a FO tank. As far as a clean-up crew, thats me. I don't mind doing water changes and reaching into the tank. I am have a 55g tank as a sump, am in the market for a large skimmer. i am running chaeto and sand in a fuge area. the 55 is about 3/4 filled with water, a large filter area, and return area.

Sounds like you have decent biological capacity then. I presonally run my FOWLR bare bottom - find it easier to manage..... but it does limit certain fish choices - like wrasse that sleep in the sand. If you intend to stock heavily, then a good skimmer is a must, as you probably well know.

Your next "step" might be to start picking "must have" fish..... for example if a passer angel or a lionfish was a must have, then it automatically makes other fish choices easier...... got any "must haves"? What fish inspired you to set up a FOWLR? Either way, I would be suggesting that you go down the road of "peaceful" or "agressive"...... i.e. aggressive is your bad boy angels, triggers, puffers, mean old wrasse, nasty tangs, etc. ..... peaceful can include some angels and tangs, butterflies, maybe lions...... once you have picked a catagory, again it rules out alot of others, making the choices easer (the list shorter).

[AwkwardParrot]

well...after a lot of thought and research, i would like a clown trigger to be the primary fish. I was also thinking a grouper and a purple tang. LMK what you know what you think!

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14305565#post14305565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AwkwardParrot
well...after a lot of thought and research, i would like a clown trigger to be the primary fish. I was also thinking a grouper and a purple tang. LMK what you know what you think!

The clown trigger is a gorgeous fish, but do you realise the implications of keeping one? i.e. potential size, agression, and propensity to murder everything in the tank regardless of size (50-50 chance of this happening over time). It is a gamble, and eventually he will outgrow your tank.

Groupers - personally I am not aware of any that do not get huge.... but I am no expert!

Purple tang is always a good choice, and will go with pretty much anything - big, small, aggressive, or otherwise.......

In my opinion (I keep stating that because I do not want to appear up on a high horse) - your tank is the sort of size where it is big, but not quite big enough.... its big enough to tempt you to want bigger fish, but unfortunately not big enough to house those bigger fish long term...... if you see what I mean. I would however look at it from the persepctive that it affords you greater choice of fish.... those that hover in the 6-8" range, which are a bit too big for standard 120, and a bit too small to "fill" a 180..... :D

Personally, my choices for fish might look like:
Navarchus Angel (these have been known to reach 12" in captivity, but I personally know of only 1 example)
Purple tang
Picasso Trigger
A thalasoma wrasse of some kind
A regal (hippo) tang

All just suggestions of course......

[karaim]

Matt, the hippo tang, IMO, will outgrow this tank.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14306539#post14306539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by karaim
Matt, the hippo tang, IMO, will outgrow this tank.

Actually, yes I agree - I just scrolled up to the top of the thread and realised it is 60" not 72" long. I'm in Ireland, where we work with (a) Imperial gallons and (b) we tend to rate our tanks by dimensions not gallons........

[MatthewLaw]

LisaD- You and I are on the same page!! I would too would recommend a dogface puffer!!! Besides the dogface i would also recommend a Volitan lionfish. Those two fish alone produce a lot of waste so make sure you get a good skimmer that can certainly handle 120+.

Maybe a yellow tang if you dont have too much LR? Also maybe a pair of false percs ALTHOUGH i might be concerned that they become a tasty dinner for the volitan. I know the dwarf lion's mouth isn't large enough for them but not sure about a full size volitan.

[anbosu]

A decent sized dwarf lion could eat percs, that's why I don't have a pair in my 90 gallon reef. A volitan would eat them without thinking twice about it. Sometimes puffers will nip at a lion's fins, but it will depend on the fish.

[MatthewLaw]

oh. ok. i thoguht dwarf lions were okay since they get to be around 7 inches, and my false percs are about 3 inches. i understand the size differnece but didn't think the DF mouth was large enough.

[AwkwardParrot]

Matt and Lisa, you both seem to be on the same page. I have realized the potential size of the clown trigger and am able to get one that is about 2"-3" long (small). I also don't want a regal tang for the reason he is a wimp...lol, although a very pretty fish. I know groupers get big, but thats no problem. there is a LFS that has a 8'L * 3'W * 4'H tank and the owner said if you buy a fish and he gets too big for your system, bring him/her in and I'll put it in the display tank and give you a fish of equal value. As far as a skimmer goes, i am looking at a DAS BX3 rated for 250+ gallon systems. Finally, LR is not going to overtake the tank at all, i'm thinking that there will not be much more than an island with plenty of swimming space.

[anbosu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14307121#post14307121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MatthewLaw
oh. ok. i thoguht dwarf lions were okay since they get to be around 7 inches, and my false percs are about 3 inches. i understand the size differnece but didn't think the DF mouth was large enough.

Lions can (or will at least try) to eat any fish that is less than half of their body length and sometimes longer.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14307122#post14307122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AwkwardParrot
Matt and Lisa, you both seem to be on the same page. I have realized the potential size of the clown trigger and am able to get one that is about 2"-3" long (small). I also don't want a regal tang for the reason he is a wimp...lol, although a very pretty fish. I know groupers get big, but thats no problem. there is a LFS that has a 8'L * 3'W * 4'H tank and the owner said if you buy a fish and he gets too big for your system, bring him/her in and I'll put it in the display tank and give you a fish of equal value. As far as a skimmer goes, i am looking at a DAS BX3 rated for 250+ gallon systems. Finally, LR is not going to overtake the tank at all, i'm thinking that there will not be much more than an island with plenty of swimming space.

Well you have fairly good options on that basis ;) and you have a contingency plan for large fish which is more than most do!

[AwkwardParrot]

Oh and i forgot to mention, I have a pair of true percs in my 29g reef and a pair of gold stripe maroons in another 29g tank with only a few pieces of rock and a sebae anemone. So my quota is met for clowns, lol. :rollface:

[MatthewLaw]

ok so skip the clowns since you are stocked with them AND they may become a tasty meal. still maybe the dwarf lion or volitan.

[karaim]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14307122#post14307122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AwkwardParrot
I also don't want a regal tang for the reason he is a wimp...lol, although a very pretty fish.

Although this fish is no clown trigger, it is by no means a wimp. It has extremely sharp fins that can cut through a fish (or your hand) like a knife. The fish can and will defend itself, but will usually not be aggressive towards other fish (unless they're conspecifics).

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14311441#post14311441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by karaim
Although this fish is no clown trigger, it is by no means a wimp. It has extremely sharp fins that can cut through a fish (or your hand) like a knife. The fish can and will defend itself, but will usually not be aggressive towards other fish (unless they're conspecifics).

I've had one give a pink tail trigger a good hammering..... both about 6"...... he domolished a 6" volitan lion also.

[tank o tang]

Vince had it set up pretty nice.

[AwkwardParrot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14315686#post14315686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tank o tang
Vince had it set up pretty nice.

indeed he did.

[AquaKnight]

Not to call anyone out on their recommendations, but seriously, a Thalassoma wrasse, a Lunare at that, in a 120gal? I think honestly I'd rather keep a Naso Tang instead in there....

How about this list?

Dogface puffer
Purple Tang
Pink Tail Trigger
Majestic Angelfish
And an eel of some kind?

[MatthewLaw]

i wonder if a 120g is large enough for a dogface puffer. this puffer gets to be about 12".

any possible issues beween the eel and puffer?

[anbosu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14316413#post14316413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquaKnight407
Not to call anyone out on their recommendations, but seriously, a Thalassoma wrasse, a Lunare at that, in a 120gal? I think honestly I'd rather keep a Naso Tang instead in there....

How about this list?

Dogface puffer
Purple Tang
Pink Tail Trigger
Majestic Angelfish
And an eel of some kind?

According to wet web media most lunares in captivity do not exceed 6-7 inches. I fail to see why a fish that size would be an issue in a 120 gallon tank. Considering naso tangs get at least twice as big (and are at least as active) I would think that would be a much poorer choice. If the fish are added in then wrong order it is possible you could have aggression issues with a lunare, but I would expect that to happen with these fish regardless of tank size.

[anbosu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14316510#post14316510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MatthewLaw
i wonder if a 120g is large enough for a dogface puffer. this puffer gets to be about 12".

any possible issues beween the eel and puffer?

I haven't ever heard of puffer/eel issues except for Lisa's situation, which is pretty extreme. I think a dogface puffer is probably ok in that size tank because they are less active than some other fish.

[AquaKnight]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14316646#post14316646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anbosu
According to wet web media most lunares in captivity do not exceed 6-7 inches. I fail to see why a fish that size would be an issue in a 120 gallon tank. Considering naso tangs get at least twice as big (and are at least as active) I would think that would be a much poorer choice. If the fish are added in then wrong order it is possible you could have aggression issues with a lunare, but I would expect that to happen with these fish regardless of tank size.

Having first hand experience with both, no way. A Lunare and a Naso have no where near the same activity level. The wrasses live their lifes at a 110%. Naso are much more deliberate about the way they swim. They are 'cruisers' and never really swim as fast as they can, or really, much above the speed of a gentle tail sway. I had a 5.5" Gold bar Wrasse (supposedly one of the smaller Thalassoma's) that I had to give to a new home because he was way too much for my 6' 125gal. There is no doubt in my mind, by the time that Naso is "double the size" a Lunare wouldn't be pushing 9" in captivity if not more.

However I just picked a Naso to compare as an equally poor choice for a fish for a 120gal.

[anbosu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14317268#post14317268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquaKnight407
Having first hand experience with both, no way. A Lunare and a Naso have no where near the same activity level. The wrasses live their lifes at a 110%. Naso are much more deliberate about the way they swim. They are 'cruisers' and never really swim as fast as they can, or really, much above the speed of a gentle tail sway. I had a 5.5" Gold bar Wrasse (supposedly one of the smaller Thalassoma's) that I had to give to a new home because he was way too much for my 6' 125gal. There is no doubt in my mind, by the time that Naso is "double the size" a Lunare wouldn't be pushing 9" in captivity if not more.

However I just picked a Naso to compare as an equally poor choice for a fish for a 120gal.

What was your wrasse doing that made you think the tank was too small? Just curious.

[AquaKnight]

He was all over the tank. From end to end and swimming as fast as possible through the rocks. A 'calm' wrasse should have been swimming at a less frantic pace, observing more of his surrounding IMHO...

[anbosu]

Yeah I agree that doesn't sound normal. When it went to a bigger tank did it calm down? Or do you know?

[AquaKnight]

Not sure, didn't really hear anything after the guy picked him up...

[AwkwardParrot]

How does a Hawaiian Trigger, Undulate Trigger, Majestic Angelfish, Purple Tang, and a wolf eel sound?

[Jerry W]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14591670#post14591670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AwkwardParrot
How does a Hawaiian Trigger, Undulate Trigger, Majestic Angelfish, Purple Tang, and a wolf eel sound?

Don't know how I missed this thread. I'm really kind of surprised at some of the fish suggested for this tank. I have the exact same tank, with a bit over 100 lbs of LR. My most recent community stocklist included a majestic angel (I think the tank would have been marginal once it became an adult), a black back butterfly, pair of clowns, sixline wrasse, and a coral beauty. I'm pretty conservative in terms of stocking, but have tried different fish over the past few years. Had a kole tang and a mimic at different times. IMHO the tank was too small to accomodate their swimming habits. I'd thought a bout a trigger but the only one I'd consider would be a humu, and again, you limit yourself. I currntly have a pair of volitans lions that are in the 8-9 inch range. I may add an eel soon. I sometimes go back and forth about community vs predatory and may go back to a community tank at some point but I think you're best off with a bunch of peaceful, small fish to give you a lot of visual interest and color. with regards to your last list, the majestic angel is lovely. Large purple tangs need much more room IMO. The undulate can be a very nasty fish as it matures so use caution here. If by Hawaiian Trigger you mean the Durgeon sp, these grow quite large and while pretty, can also be aggressive. Picking fish for someone is like picking out options for someone else's new car;) Again, I like light stocking levels and am continually surprised by the types of fish some folks put into average sized tanks. It wasn't until I got my 120 up and full of rock that I realized how small it was! Ideally, pick a showpiece fish like the majestic angel, than add some small species that won't compete for space and that the angel won't be pushy towards. A pair of clowns, a midas blenny, sixline wrasse and a small school of yellow tail blue damsels. This would be striking, IMO, and a scheme I've thought of if I ever opt to change up my tank again. Remember that while generalities can be made about certain species, each fish has it's own "personality" so to speak, and one person's experience may differ greatly from anothers. My majestic was a terror towards my butterfly and would pester it at every opportunity. It left the smaller fish alone however.
hth