Balance Of Nutrients

[HOSTFER]

I would like to propose an idea for the forum,it is a one interesting idea which produces great results in my tank. We need speak about the balance of nutrients in a global point of view. basically it is about the balance elements nitrate/fosfato in a proportion 16 to 1 an handle them with two "cases" one being carbon the other iron with the end intention to maintain the undetectable of nutrients al though the nutrients are put into the tank everyday like they are in their natural environment.

I promise to present this if you see interesting

To see an advance in

http://www.e-coralia.net/panel/showthread.php?t=11578

http://www.e-coralia.net/panel/showthread.php?t=11802

see you

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure what you are getting at, and I cannot read the links, but I agree that balancing your export methods in some way to adequately export both nitrate and phosphate is desirable.

There are many independent export methods (such as phosphate binders for phosphate and deep sand beds for nitrate), but there are others where they are tightly coupled (growing macroalgae, for example) and some where they are somewhat coupled (organic carbon dosing; skimming, etc).

Getting the right balance can be useful. For example, if you intend to export nitrate via macroalgae but use GFO to bind phosphate, you may find that nitrate accumulates if there is not sufficient phosphate to allow the macroalgae to export all of the nitrate. :)

[HOSTFER]

I add food into the tank three times every day, it misadjusts much nitrates and phosphates to my tank and with additions of potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate to balance them and small iron additions to facilitate the consumption, I can take my values as low as almost undetectable, nitrates 0,3ppm and phosphates 0,01ppm without affecting my export methods, they are to total yield and it also avoids the beginning of undesirable plagues by the competition that there is in the tank by the nutrients.

I thought that additions of potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate to balance can be an interesting idea for the aquariums that feed much or have problems with excesses of nitrate or phosphate.

I encounter an interesting relation between carbon, nitrates, phosphates, potassium and iron.

Thank for your time.

[greenbean36191]

The 106:16:1 Redfield ratio is basically a long-term, large scale average of nutrients in phytoplankton. It shouldn't be thought of as some optimum ratio of nutrients for the function of an ecosystem. Aside from deep water, most parts of the ocean (including reefs) do not approach this ratio most of the time anyway.

About the only time I would recommend hobbyists shoot for this ratio is if they're looking for fertilizer for a phyto culture.

[HOSTFER]

GFO to bind phosphate, you may find that nitrate accumulates if there is not sufficient phosphate to allow the macroalgae to export all of the nitrate.


that can be interpreted like: in the tanks where the iron is not limited(GFO, Iron Oxide Hydroxide), small phosphate additions, aid to lower nitrates?

also we can think that: in the tanks where the iron is not limited, small nitrates additions, aid to lower phosphate.

small increases of carbon also help to lower nitrates by means of the sand beds.

I find in the C/N/P/FE wave movements one natural weapon to fight against nitrates and phosphates.
with small additions for the balance of the set C/N/P/FE

besides the control of plagues by the excess or limitation of some

thanks for your time.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

that can be interpreted like: in the tanks where the iron is not limited(GFO, Iron Oxide Hydroxide), small phosphate additions, aid to lower nitrates?

Yes, that can be true, although I generally wouldn't recommend that direction because phosphate is substantially more detrimental, IMO, than is nitrate, and you'd need pretty accurate testing and confidence in your test method to benefit from that.

also we can think that: in the tanks where the iron is not limited, small nitrates additions, aid to lower phosphate.

Yes, quite a few people do that, and I think it a fine plan.

small increases of carbon also help to lower nitrates by means of the sand beds.

Sand beds, yes, or both nitrate and phosphate by simple aerobic bacterial growth. A lot of people do this.

[HOSTFER]

I find in the C/N/P/FE wave movements one natural weapon to fight against nitrates and phosphates.
with small additions for the balance of the set C/N/P/FE

it does not make any commentary, it is possible that you do not understand my translation?

excuses the impertinencia, thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If my above comments did not seem to relate to your meaning at all, then I probably didn't understand correctly. :)

[Jk5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14309468#post14309468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
The 106:16:1 Redfield ratio is basically a long-term, large scale average of nutrients in phytoplankton. It shouldn't be thought of as some optimum ratio of nutrients for the function of an ecosystem. Aside from deep water, most parts of the ocean (including reefs) do not approach this ratio most of the time anyway.

About the only time I would recommend hobbyists shoot for this ratio is if they're looking for fertilizer for a phyto culture.

I´m not agree.
Like you say "most parts of the ocean do not approach this ratio most of the time".

What happens in a tank then?
pests

Many pest comes in no3 limitation.

whats a cyano pest? you are out of ratio
whats a dinoflagellates pest? you are out of ratio (ratio between N compounds (nh4-no3)
whats a Falkenbergia pest? you are out of ratio (ratio in N compounds)

Nitrate limitation is a valid rule known by ficologist and marine science world.

Not only ratio C/N/P, there are diferent compounds in N (nh4, no3...)
ratio in diferents N compounds...
High ratio in other N compounds above nitrate,

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1562478

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168688

[Jk5]

I´ll try to explain Hostfer theory...

Hostfer is making a strong nutrients remonition...
He works with zeolithes and carbon sources and chaeto, but he doesnt like to fall in nutrients limitation (no3 nor po4)
He makes his fine adjust, his last adjust, keeping always no3 5ppm and po4 0.05...
If it is needed he makes no3 or po4 adition... and fe adition...
He thinks if a nutrient (no3-po4-fe) is limited then the other nutrients shall increase and going up stored in the tank...
He is playing the fine adjust with no3-po4-fe adition, if it is needed.
In this mode, nutrients play between them avoiding acumulation and storages...
His idea is if you are not nitrate limited then nitrate helps you to eat phosphates... and he plays with Iron (Fe) too...

and he think too, with this nutrients ratio there are not algal or cyano pests...

[torhav]

My experience with a planted freshwater tank is that at the redfield ratio, 16:1, keeps unwanted algae away.

Higher amounts of nitrate = green algae as thread algae.
Higher amounts of phosphate = Cyanobacteria

FWIW

[HOSTFER]

What I would like to explain is this: with small variations of the four elements, C/N/P/FE, we could control nitrate and phosphate levels in the tank at our will.

that can be interpreted like: in the tanks where the iron is not limited(GFO, Iron Oxide Hydroxide), small phosphate additions, aid to lower nitrates?

Yes, that can be true, although I generally wouldn't recommend that direction because phosphate is substantially more detrimental, IMO, than is nitrate, and you'd need pretty accurate testing and confidence in your test method to benefit from that.

If nitrate accumulates, when we slightly increase the level of carbon and phosphate, the organisms in the tank will start to consume nitrate accumulated.


also we can think that: in the tanks where the iron is not limited, small nitrates additions, aid to lower phosphate.

Yes, quite a few people do that, and I think it a fine plan.

If phosphate accumulates, when we slightly increase the level of iron and nitrate, the organisms in the tank will start to consume phosphate accumulated.

The combination C/N/P/Fe works as a whole, like a wave.

Why paper over the cracks (phosphate binders, GFO or phosphate reactor) instead of finding the right balance?

There is also another further step we can take.

If phosphate accumulates in a tank, nitrate export methods must probably be over-working or over-sized. To compensate the imbalance, it would be equally effective to reduce carbon levels or nitrate export methods, so we could aim at simplifying the whole maintenance system.

I believe export methods and maintenance equipment in some tanks are over-working and too complicated. They could be simplified within certain feeding parameters.
Do you think this concept is worth considering?

Thanks for your time.