healthy corals, slow growth

[Marklu]

I have a 75 gallon tank with all good parameters (don't me to elaborate, I know their good) with a plethora of sps frags. !75 watt iwasaki 15k, 2 54 watt blue plus t5's. Corals have good polyp extension and decent coloration, some are a little pale especially my cap's and an acro or two. But overall, they seem very healthy. The problem is they wont grow! I've had most of them for 4-8 months and some of them, including the caps, haven't hardly budged the whole time i've had them. What does this mean? Healthy corals, without growth? What is wrong?

[OnlyCrimson]

Do you feed enough?

[kemann]

Have you tried different temp lights? Are you feeding them?

[Marklu]

That is one thing that i've been looking into is feeding. I don't direct to corals, which some claim is a necessity, but i do feed fish well. Fish list at the moment are a purple tang, red tail tamerin wrasse, pair of percs, and a scooter blenny. I've seen a lot of peoples tanks where they don't directly feed their sps and they still grow great. Maybe I need more poo? or start feeding directly? Thanks for the tips. I hear feeding sps is a tricky task to find the right sized foods.

What else can inhibit growth?
I don't have any noticeable algae, except on the glass every two-three days and i run a fuge with chaeto and i don't have any measurable phosphate (salifert). But could there be enough to halt growth still?

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14366262#post14366262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kemann
Have you tried different temp lights? Are you feeding them?

I changed to the Iwasakis about two months ago from hamilton 14ks which are much bluer, and have a lot less par. So I figured the increase of par would spur growth, but still haven't seem a real increase.

[91yota]

sometimes they go dormant... try snipping the tips and see if it wakes them up... fwiw, there was a thread about that the other day... ive had it happen as well and that was the only way i could stimulate new growth

on another note, you say your params are "good" but how stable are they? unstable params can make corals go dormant as can a number of other factors

[chicken]

how are you measuring salinity and have you calibrated it recently with a 53mS calibration fluid? I had a problem where my refractormeter was off by .002 so my salinity was almost at 1.029. The corals were looking fine, my caps were a little faded and polyp extension was fine but I had like zero growth. I racked my head for a few weeks, did a bunch of water changes, etc and nothing. Finally I figured it was time to recalibrate my refactormeter and there it was. I lowed the salinity over a few days and everything is starting to grow like a weed again.

[triton77]

what are your parameters and what test kit are you using?

[BlAcK_PeRcUlA]

Could it perhaps be light intensity limiting their growth? I have a 150w pendant over my 4 gallon. While i know that is excessive, I get great growth when parameters are stable.

[Rouselb]

Are the corals getting fatter on the base or are they just not growing? I had so much flow in my tank, that the corals were growing much fatter and not taller. Flow is a major key to how the corals will grow.

[macreefster]

good point rouselb....i noticed the same thing with my corals, much more growth at the base since i've increased the flow.

[dreaminmel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14366055#post14366055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
I have a 75 gallon tank with all good parameters (don't me to elaborate, I know their good) with a plethora of sps frags. !75 watt iwasaki 15k, 2 54 watt blue plus t5's. Corals have good polyp extension and decent coloration, some are a little pale especially my cap's and an acro or two. But overall, they seem very healthy. The problem is they wont grow! I've had most of them for 4-8 months and some of them, including the caps, haven't hardly budged the whole time i've had them. What does this mean? Healthy corals, without growth? What is wrong?

Do you have coralline growth in your tank? If so, how soon after scraping coralline does it come back?

[OwenInAZ]

I wouldn't worry about target feeding. SPS polyps will filter out the food they want as it floats by just fine. I like the high salinity idea.

[dwilly]

I had the same issue and I seem to be having some success by reducing my photoperiod. I run 6 x 54 T5's, no cover or shield, about 6" above the water. I used to run them almost 9 hours (w/ 1 hr before and after on the 2 outside Blue+ bulbs) I have now gradually reduced this to only about 6 hours and I am starting to see more polyp extension and some new growth.

[Marklu]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses guys.

Salinity was actually a problem. And it seems like a perfect match!
All I have is a hydrometer, due to the fact that my refractometer has been missing for while now. I used it thinking it was fine because It really wasn't used much when i first got it and i figured it couldn't be that bad yet. I did a lot of water changes and made the water 1.025 with the hydrometer, but it seemed like I was putting A LOT of salt in to get there. So i decided to a sample of salt to LFS last week and they said my water was 1.028 via refractometer. So i've been lowering it slowly and I have a new refractometer on order. This could be it, but is 1.028 that high?

I do have coraline algae growth, but its not the thick, very purple or pink kind. Its really pale and lavender colored and it covers the back glass fully in about 4 months maybe?

Most of them do have well encrusting bases, but I don't my flow is that crazy, not like a lot of peoples. Its two K3's and Mj 1200 mod.

I know lighting is not a problem, I know these bulbs can grow coral as i've seen many tanks on this forum that run these bulbs.

again, thanks for all the responses! I think salinity may be the winner here.

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14369862#post14369862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
I think salinity may be the winner here. Agreed :thumbsup:

You might also look into a Kalium (potassium) test kit, as Montis generally show the first signs of K deficiency. With that said 1.028 will tick off my corals for sure!

[tigerarmy40]

what is your ca and alk and mag testing at?

[Marklu]

We'll good i'll see if they start stepping up there growth in the next few weeks. If not, i'll open this thread back up.

Ca is 440, Alk 8 dkh, Mag 1350.

Thanks everyone! If i can, i'll borrow my lady's cammera and snap some pics of the tank and corals.

[Marklu]

Potassium, eh?

I've heard it's important for some corals to color and grow, but wouldn't it be replaced via regular water changes?

[Hampton]

So, to tag on, what is the best salinity for SPS? I've read that anything over about 1.0245 increases the precipitation of Mg and Ca. Did I get that wrong? I used to run about 1.025, but after reading that, I dropped it down to 1.024. Recommendations?

[Rouselb]

I dont believe there is a best. I normally keep mine around 1.022/3. Weekly water changes do help keep trace elements at the appropriate levels. I do not dose any trace elements and my SPS grow great.

[Marklu]

natural seawater is 1.025-6ish. So it seems 1.025 would be a good target.

[Marklu]

Alright, my tank has been at 1.025 for a few days now. I did a large (40%) water change and fixed the specific gravity and should have replaced potassium if was indeed deficient. It's only been a few days, how long should the caps remain pale if there was indeed a deficiency and it is now corrected? All corals seem to be exactly the same after the change. How long should it take to seem some growth?

[dots]

Check your P04

For the next few months, increase the frequency of your WC's to 30% every two weeks. I bet you will see dramatic improvements.

[Kaiden]

Check your P04

For the next few months, increase the frequency of your WC's to 30% every two weeks. I bet you will see dramatic improvements.


+1

Patients... Grasshopper this thread is only 4 days old. Good things come to those who wait. SPS is a Zen type atmosphere to much change to quickly is no good. Take your time, I bet in a month or two you will be back with astounding growth pics... keep your head up..

[60Cubed]

Only bad things happen fast in this hobby!

I have an extremely large amount of flow in my cube. I believe someone mentioned that with a lot of flow the corals will get thicker before getting outward growth. This is my scenario. I was worried at first then soon realized what was happening. Now my acros all have super thick bases but are growing outward now as well. I think acros tend to encrust fully before adding new growth so they can hold their own weight.

So be patient and keep an eye on all of your params.

[kemann]

I have also seen my acros seemingly not grow for several months at a time. Once I looked closer and looked at interval pictures, I could see that they were spreading laterally or thickening.

[Marklu]

I did some deep cleaning this morning. I cleaned the koralia's, maxijet, return, skimmer pump, and got as much detritus out of the sump as I could. Does any body no a good method for that? The sump is so close to the floor its hard to keep a siphon going.

[Rouselb]

Wet vac!

[Marklu]

good thinking! I've never thought of that before...

[Rouselb]

Home depot sells a smaller hose that plugs right in. This way you can have a clean hose for the fish tank, and then use the standard large hose for around the house.

[SunnyX]

Well, now that your parameters are stable I would not touch anything in the tank for at least a month. Take a picture of the tank and corals now so you can use it to confirm any or no changes in growth and color.

Just give it some time. :D

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14394415#post14394415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rouselb
Home depot sells a smaller hose that plugs right in. This way you can have a clean hose for the fish tank, and then use the standard large hose for around the house.

Excellent, i'll get one this week. =)

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14394482#post14394482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Well, now that your parameters are stable I would not touch anything in the tank for at least a month. Take a picture of the tank and corals now so you can use it to confirm any or no changes in growth and color.

Just give it some time. :D

Alright, I'll let it be.

I'll get a picture posted as well. Thanks guys!

[jjoos99]

I dont get much of any growth out of my corals either. i also dont have any coraline growth. My alk is at 9.6 , ca is a alittle high over 500, mag tests out at 1200. I have been adding mag supplements but dont seem to be able to get above 1200. My salinity tested at 1.023 tonight. I have been using reef crystals but have bought a bucket of redsea pro to start using. I have shut down my ca reactor to bring down my ca level. My problem seems to be like the original post except I have no coraline growth. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Jeff

[Marklu]

Well, I have weird coraline growth. Its hardly on the rocks at all. What coraline I do get on my glass i very pale and unlike a lot of coraline i see in other peoples tanks. I do have some darker, thicker coraline that came on my live rock, but it really has never grown much.

I've been looking into stray voltage has I have never checked the tank for it. Could this effect coral color and calcification??

[Kaiden]

Jeff -

What Mag Sup are you using? Your CA and DKH are fine! Your salinity is a little lower than I would recommend what are you using to test it? Why did you shut down your CA Reactor? Seems the issue is your Mag and your Salinity.. What is your PH at?

[Kaiden]

I've been looking into stray voltage has I have never checked the tank for it. Could this effect coral color and calcification??

Coral Color and Calcification would be your least worries when dealing with a constant electrical current. If you feel there is a need for this, checking would be immediate.

Maybe I missed something, correct me if I am wrong.. how long has your system been up and running?

Do you both test your RO/DI frequently? I say this only because I had issues about 6 years ago that was the fault of a bad TDS Meter...

[Marklu]

Its up been up and running for a year and a half.

The ro/di water was 0 when I got the filter a while back. Haven't tested since then. I plan to change pre-filters soon. I don't have a TDS meter so i'll take a sample somewhere soon as well.

[redfishsc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14368169#post14368169 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BlAcK_PeRcUlA
Could it perhaps be light intensity limiting their growth? I have a 150w pendant over my 4 gallon. While i know that is excessive, I get great growth when parameters are stable.


Aside from the phosphate testing that someone mentioned, I think that black percula may have a point.


While it is very true that you have one of the best coral growth bulbs on the planet (and best blue T5's for that matter), the reality is I'm not sure that it alone with the T5's are going to be enough.

A 75g is a long, wide, and deep tank to try to drive with a 175 mogul base. Too long of a tank, too many shadows, and a long way for PAR to travel to hit corals closer to the ends of the tank.


If I were setting up a 75g for SPS, I would ONLY consider setting that tank up with a minimum of 2 150W HQI/DE bulbs and 2-4 T5's, depending on what I could fit in there.

Given the overall negligible cost difference, I would most likely put two 250W HQI's.


Since you are using the Iwasaki bulbs, you could easily add one more 175 Iwasaki and I think you would see a nice response.

[Hampton]

I make Ro/Di by the 40 gallons or so. I test everytime I make it before I use it. When a filter goes bad, you want to know right away to get it fixed.

[jjoos99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14397467#post14397467 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kaiden
Jeff -

What Mag Sup are you using? Your CA and DKH are fine! Your salinity is a little lower than I would recommend what are you using to test it? Why did you shut down your CA Reactor? Seems the issue is your Mag and your Salinity.. What is your PH at?

I am using a mag supplement from bulk reef supply. My salinity is checked with a refracto. My ph usually stays pretty consistant around 8.1 or so. I shut down my ca reactor because I thought that getting above 500 on ca was getting too high. Should I just slow down my drip rate or bubble count instead of turning it off?
Thanks
Jeff

[Marklu]

Jeff - I would say you would just slow your bubble count as to lower the amount of media that is dissolving.

[Marklu]

About my lighting, the iwasaki's have enough to beat most 14 and 20k 250 watters. There really isn't any shadows and it seems more intense than most tanks I see using higher wattage bulbs. If light was limited, I think the corals would be browner.

[redfishsc]

I know for sure that what you have will grow just about any LPS and softie out there.

It will likely even grow some like the monti's and such, but I would wager that you are banking a bit more than you should on the quality of the Iwasaki.

Basically from what I've seen, the Iwasaki mogul base puts out the same par as most quality HQI (ie, the Iwasaki beats the crap out of every other mogul base and competes well against HQI).

That being said, I'm not at all sure that the human eye can judge what is bright enough. I cannot actually see much of a difference between the intensity of a 150 or a 250W bulb, but a coral sure can.

You have superb quality light, but given the sheer length and 20" depth of the tank, I personally don't think one 175 is enough.

Two of them will certainly put you into the right ballpark.

[Marklu]

Oh, there's the problem. I have two. Ha I guess i just assumed that people would understand that I had two. Its a 48" tank, and with a suggested spread of 24" for halides, two is a perfect fit.

[Marklu]

I snapped some pics. I'm sorry for the terrible quality.

Heres a pic of the tank
http://i41.*******.com/2iqfh4m.jpg

This one is of a green acro frag and the next one is the same frag several month later, showing the extreme lack of growth in my system.
http://i43.*******.com/24edpw2.jpg
http://i44.*******.com/n6411t.jpg

The coral is really the same color in both pictures, a nice vibrant green. The first pic is under 14k hamiltons and the second is under the iwasakis.

[redfishsc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14401129#post14401129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
Oh, there's the problem. I have two. Ha I guess i just assumed that people would understand that I had two. Its a 48" tank, and with a suggested spread of 24" for halides, two is a perfect fit.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Sorry about that. I'd agree then.... light isn't what's hurting you...