Octo 300 PRO Water Level Question????

[BLANKENSHIP76]

This is the one with the askoll 1500, I am running this in 8in of water in my sump and am having a ton of problems with it just running over. I have it opened up all the way.

Is there anyone running this skimmer that can tell me a good operating water level for the sump??

[tkeracer619]

The water level needs to be below the output. If it is not it will overflow. The instructions really should be better....

[BLANKENSHIP76]

With the water 1.25inches bleow the outlet the best I can do is get the break to be at the bottom of the collection up.

[sjm817]

I posted this in that other thread. By the pic, the hole in the airline tube looks small to me. Smaller than mine anyway. Does it seem like it is restricting air and making it pump more water?

This is what you have and its set up like this?

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/coralvue/CV-OPS-300I.jpg

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I have mine set up exactly like that, except I have the output coming out to the right except the left.

It has been running now for 12 hours and I still can not get it dialed in. Another 300PRO owner said he runs his in 7.75 in of water and it was hard to get set-up, he said it is almost like the pump is too much for an 8in body.

I currently built a stand for mine and it is running in 6 3/8 inches of water. I am attaching some pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010443.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010444.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010445.jpg

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I forgot to mention this is witht he skimmer wide open.

[sjm817]

Never seen one in action, but I did think the body size of that skimmer is small for that pump. I had one on an MSX250 and it seemed like a good match.

[DarG]

I initially heard that the Pro line was discontinued for replacement with the Hurricones. I heard the 300 was a pretty good skimmer. But later info I got was that the pump was too much for the skimmer with the same issue you describe. Or, that they should have used larger output plumbing on the skimmer. I heard the same thing, that there were reports that with The wedge pipe open all the way, the water level/bubble break is still too high and it overskims or skims too wet. I think that for the 8" body they should have gone with a longer neck or larger output plumbing. So I am wondering if design flaws are why they really discontinued the Pro.

IF the pump is too much as I have heard suggested, and you cant get the water level low enough, you can try using a shorter piece of pipe between the skimmer output elbow and the T fitting. This should lower the water/bubble level in the skimmer with the wedge pipe all the way open and possibly give you some adjustment capability.
Problem is that if it is metric pipe and you cut it shorter, you cant take it back and its kinda hard to find in the USA. Also, the higher the water level in the skimmer body, the higher the water level will rise in the standpipe (wedge pipe). The more you close the wedgepipe, the higher the water level will rise inside that pipe as well. Before you do anything, take a look down inside the wedge pipe to make sure the water level isnt near the top. It shouldnt be but you never know. In other words, the output piping has to be a certian minimum height as well so the water doesnt overflow out the top of the wedgepipe. If that makes any sense ...

Again, these are just assumptions/suggestions based on some info I have heard about the 300 pro. I have no personal experience with this skimmer.

[sjm817]

DarG is giving good advice.

Here is something you can try. Use the short union piece that is normally used to connect the elbow to the output on the bottom of the T connection instead. This will put the T down at the bottom of the body.

[gioNVA]

Subscribing to this thread. I actually just got the Hurricone with the 8" body (CAT1) and currently having the same issue. I have the hurricone wedge pipe wide open and in a little over 7" water.

I have an extra pipe that I can trim so I can get the output shorter. Will have to try that this weekend.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

Seems like the 8in body is just a little small for this great pump,

I have an extra metric pipe here too, I am going to work on it tonight, I will post my mod later this evening. Because, I think 6 3/8 inches is as low on the water as I can go. I went to six inches earlier and the pump began to suck air in and it was way too loud.



Hope it works.

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14385927#post14385927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
Seems like the 8in body is just a little small for this great pump,

I have an extra metric pipe here too, I am going to work on it tonight, I will post my mod later this evening. Because, I think 6 3/8 inches is as low on the water as I can go. I went to six inches earlier and the pump began to suck air in and it was way too loud.



Hope it works.


looking at the pics, looks like you have a few inches to work with so it may do the trick. One other thing to consider though is that if you go too low, the output ends up under water so you need to consider that as well. You may need to do a combination of lowering the T as much as possible and running the skimmer in as shallow a depth as possible.

Good luck.

[MSHUR]

i was running this skimmer at 6" below the water line with great success. You should not have any air sucktion..thats weired.. maybe you have some water movement in the sump?
But in any case, from you pic look slike you getting good skimm..


mike

[DarG]

Blankenship76 looks like he has alot of bubbles in the skimmer section. That could explain why the pump is sucking some air at the lower water level.

But regardless of that, the skimmate definitely looks too wet. And, judging from the look of the wet bubbles in the neck, the water level needs to be lower in the body just as Blankenship describes.

Blankenship ... you may also want to consider a 100 micron filter sock on the skimmer output. That would stop the microbubbles and also calm to return to the skimmer section which may allow you to run a skimmer in a little lower water level.
Cheap and easy to pick one up and try it atleast. Pick up a fine mesh media bag from the LFS if you dont have any on hand. Could be worth a try.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I just lowered the water level to 6 inches, and I am not getting any suction noises right now. The skimmate is still definetely wet, but at this height, I can lower the output by 2 full inches and not submerge it.

I will mod it this evening and post new pics.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

Here is the mod, I did which was only cutting 2 inches off the pipe between between the elbow coming off of the pump and the T where the output is.

It worked, I still have it in 6 inches of water, but I had to actually restrict the output to get the water up to the leve it is at in the chamber. I think with where the T is know I can drop it down into about 7inches of water.

Pumped it was such a simple fix.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010446.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010448.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010447.jpg

[BLANKENSHIP76]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010449.jpg

[BLANKENSHIP76]

And a shot of the tank and skimmer to wrap it up, thanks for all the help!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010451.jpg

[DarG]

Glad it worked out Blankenship. Happy to lend some help. Hopefully you'll have all the adjustment flexibility you need to adjust skimmate consistency.

[sjm817]

Glad to see that it is working as well. One thing you should be aware of is the PF (power factor) of the pump. The PF goes lower as the pump goes in shallower water. It is worse @ 6" than 8". High 40s to low 50s is what I hear is good. Low 40s is not so good. Only way to tell is with a kill-a-watt.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

Currently have it running in 6 7/8 inches of water, I think I may be able to get another 1/2 inch deeper, but that will be it because the output T would be submerged at any deeper water level.

I am getting good skimmate, I will update a pic later, I had issue with my ATO last night i tried to mount the floats to mag clips. I didn't realize something about the magnets make the sensors not work???


Can you pick up a kill-a-watt meter at Lowes??

[sjm817]

I dont think Lowes has Kill-a-watts.

You have to keep float sensors away from magnets. They work off magnetic reed switches. Here is how I mounted mine.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_3119.jpg

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14393306#post14393306 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
Currently have it running in 6 7/8 inches of water, I think I may be able to get another 1/2 inch deeper, but that will be it because the output T would be submerged at any deeper water level.

I am getting good skimmate, I will update a pic later, I had issue with my ATO last night i tried to mount the floats to mag clips. I didn't realize something about the magnets make the sensors not work???


Can you pick up a kill-a-watt meter at Lowes??

Im not an electrician or EE so Im not sure why you would need to worry about the PF in the case of these pumps. My basic understanding, and it could be wrong, is that the PF is basically measure of wasted or unnecessary energy. So a PF of 50 would mean that only 50% of the energy that is being consumed by the pump is actually needed to drive the pump, the other 50% is wasted, as heat I would assume. So, I guess that the concern would be overheating the pump. But I havent heard of a run of burnt out skimmer pumps from excessive heat due to low PF due to the skimmers being run in lower water levels. But maybe this is an issue that I just havent read about. I think that magentic pumps are notorious for low PF anyway. Atleast the small ones where there is no PF correction cicuitry employed (capacitors).

Somebody can feel free to correct me if Im way off on my meager understanding of PF here.

Maybe SJM or someone else knows about an issue with these pumps related to PF. Im running the MSX dual Sicce cone skimmer. Its recommended to perform best in a water level of 6 - 8" deep. Im running it in 7" of water. The Sicces draw 19- 20 watts each but the PF of the Sicce pump is a low .38
The PF of the Sicce on my MSX 200 was about .42 from memory.

My point is ... Im not sure what is supposed to be done about it. It kinda is what it is.

[sjm817]

I have talked to a few people about the Askoll PF. There is a concern of them burning out of the PF gets too low. More so when running external recirc than internal. Sicces PF is low which is one reason they must be run internal only. What can be done about it for one is volute design, which obviously only the designer of the skimmer can control. Newer volute designs can get a better PF ratio. The only thing the user can do is water depth of the skimmer. The MS guys recommend the 1A be run in 8" Vs 6" for the better PF.

Not trying to cause a concern, its just something to be aware of.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I have the same floats(reef fanatic), I was using the mag clip magnets(for probes, etc..), so I need to use the mag floats. Thanks for info!!!!!

Thanks DarG, I really can't do much about it, its kinda gotta stay like it is.

[JNye]

PF, running hot, is why we see these "anti-lime loops" on these pumps, specifically the ones that are being run externally. I doubt any of these pumps are designed for this kind of duty(high air and water pull), Its actually pretty amazing what these skimmer guys do to these pumps.

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14393522#post14393522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I have talked to a few people about the Askoll PF. There is a concern of them burning out of the PF gets too low. More so when running external recirc than internal. Sicces PF is low which is one reason they must be run internal only. What can be done about it for one is volute design, which obviously only the designer of the skimmer can control. Newer volute designs can get a better PF ratio. The only thing the user can do is water depth of the skimmer. The MS guys recommend the 1A be run in 8" Vs 6" for the better PF.

Not trying to cause a concern, its just something to be aware of.

Thanks SJM.

What is the PF of your Askoll and what are they getting for PF for the externally run Askoll's? ... if you know, of course.

[sjm817]

Mine is 46 - 47 which is...."ok". My pump is one I bought used, but is the same pump as used on the Octo Pro and essentially the same pump that MS sells with the 1A. MS says they are seeing more like 52 on what they ship out. Why the difference is a mystery.

I never asked what the externals are getting. I'd also be curious to see what the ATBs get with their volute. The Hurricone also has a new volute design. It would also be interesting to see the numbers for that one. Rumor has it there are more new volute designs coming out as well.

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14393919#post14393919 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Mine is 46 - 47 which is...."ok". My pump is one I bought used, but is the same pump as used on the Octo Pro and essentially the same pump that MS sells with the 1A. MS says they are seeing more like 52 on what they ship out. Why the difference is a mystery.

I never asked what the externals are getting. I'd also be curious to see what the ATBs get with their volute. The Hurricone also has a new volute design. It would also be interesting to see the numbers for that one. Rumor has it there are more new volute designs coming out as well.

Ive seen the advertising text for the Hurricones Askoll volutes. They claim USA made volutes and pinwheels custom designed to maintain the PF that the motor was designed for. I guess one would have to get the PF numbers from the pump manufacturer and then compare that with the PF of the pump running on the skimmer.

If I had thought about it, I could have closed off the volute air nipple and measured the Sicce pump that came with the Coralvue version 200 extreme with stock impeller. That skimmer came with the regular impeller, unmodded (fins werent cut off). That would have given me/us atleast close to the PF of the stock sicce for comparison with the sicces used for skimmer apps. with pinwheels and mesh wheels.

Do you know what the manufacturer spec is for PF for the stock Sicce with stock impeller?

[sjm817]

I posted in the Hurricone thread and got one reply saying 47. I did see somewhere that the stock pump is like 52 - 54?? Can't find it now.

[BLANKENSHIP76]

One days worth of skimmate still a little wet, but not bad.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/blankenship76/P1010452.jpg

[JNye]

Thats wet? mine looks like urine, but i actually prefer a wet skimmate. Looking good.

[MSHUR]

I think its very good,, Mine is lighter . I prefer wet skimmate since i have a lots of fish..