Bonsai Mangrove.

[acurro]

Found the following website of a bonsai mangrove. It is "walking." It is a white mangrove, I believe, grown by a famous bonsai horticulturist.

I have three red mangroves growing in my sump right now under a 150 W Viper (?) metal halide light. I am going to try to recreate the effect with my mangroves in my sump, although it will probably take 5 or 10 years at the rate they grow!

Anyone else try this?

http://www.fukubonsai.com/5a9.html

[acurro]

The webpage and the link did not appear in the original, so here it is:

http://www.fukubonsai.com/5a9.html

[acurro]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96257walking_mangrove.jpg

[houser]

I was thinking about this too but had not seen that picture. Hmmm

[acurro]

The only thing is their growth rate in salt water is so slow. I planted mine about one and a half months ago and they are barely budding after spraying them twice a day. I bet they grow faster in freshwater but that is no use to me.

[captstinky]

In coastal areas they get submerged at high tide, and nearly exposed at low tide. If one were so inclined they could recreate that env't with a surgee device, I guess. The mangroves never really dry out completely, FWIW, in nature. I've not seen the Reds growing in straight fresh water, but certainly areas that get fluctuating salinty. White tend to grow in 'drier' areas. I would say temp, substrate and light would be larger factors in limiting growth. In N.Florida the mangroves that I have seen stay rather small- less than 8-10ft. S.Florida the trees are much bigger.

Ever been to S.Florida in July/August? You could fry eggs on the sand next to mangroves...

Hope that helps with your mangrove growth

[Eklikewhoa]

I am growing Red mangroves in my freshwater sump.

The growth rate is phenominal compared to the ones in the saltwater sump but many variables between the two.

[acurro]

To recreate a tidal habitat for mangroves and mudskippers I do have a good way of doing it:

Get one of those automated fill systems and hide it in a sump behind the tank. Drill a very small overflow hole in the main tank so it drains very slowly (air line tubing size). Set one of the two sensors in in the main tank at the "low tide" point so when it sufficiently drains out a pump will engage till the water level is up to a sensor set at the "high tide" point. The pump to return the water should be small so it takes some time to do it (i.e. the tide coming in.

It would be pretty cool for mangroves, mudskippers, and archer fish . . . ..

[natan]

>I am growing Red mangroves in my freshwater sump.

The growth rate is phenominal compared to the ones in the saltwater sump but many variables between the two.<

I'd love to see a list of potential factors. Here is my story: got 7 already sprouted in FW. grew them for 4 month, than aclimated for 2 more month to SW (1 was lost in the process). Result was that they kept growing for a year in SW, than stopped almost completely 4 another year. what little growth toock place was deformed and somewhat discolored. Decided to moove them back to FW. Acclimated for another 3 month, 1 was lost and another one became sick (dehydrated) and recovered after 3 month of intensive care (covered with a sandwich bag and sprayed to limit water loss). 5 remaining plants are in FW for 4 month now, with good fertelizer and tidal system, ends of roots in fine sand (preciously were suspended, ends were trimmed before planting in FW). they are sprayed daily. They do absolutely nothing in FW so far, no growth at all. We shall see, its winter now in here (near constant 17C), any ideas for "restarting" them welcome. For now I'd be happy to get the growth i used to have on them 2+ years ago.

As to that bonsai picture, i beleive that like much of the bonsai matereal these are wild collected and not grown. They have to be at least 20 years old, based on branch development.

Doing a tidal system in itself is simple. All u need is a large sump with low water level and a pump in it on a timer. Aquascapung it so that some water and land would be accessible to the animals at both low and high tide is another story.

[acurro]

I think the theory of bonsai is that they simulate the conditions found on high mountains where trees naturally grow small. You have to keep the roots trimmed (by periodically repotting in small pots and take some of the roots off when you repot) and keep the top small. In a healthy bonsai you trim leaves off as they get too big and become out of scale.

There is more to it of course and you don't need to use one of the small pots. People wire the branches to get a certain shape.

It totally depends on the bonsai. There are some 400 year old bonsai and two or three year old bonsais. As for mangroves, considering how slow they grow in salt water at least it will probably take a long time to grow one.

The thing with red mangroves is that they acclimate to a certain salinity then they don't like to change. Notice that they kept dying as the salinity changed?

[acurro]

As for growing mangroves in saltwater, they need to be sprayed with fresh water frequently (i.e. with a spray bottle to simulate rain). Their leaves export salt and it needs to be sprayed off. When your mangroves stopped growing, were they being sprayed every day? They need light, and they need to be kept in one place.

To make the arched roots they should be grown attached to a planting stick and the mangrove is slowly moved out of the water as the roots grow downward so eventually the tops of the roots are out of the water. There is articles about this online, especially by Anthony Calfo.

Everyone says they should be sprouted in the salinity of water they are to be grown in.

[natan]

>...they need to be kept in one place.

That, i think, is THE punch line. Any change is bad short term, but life happens and sometimes their original system has to be changed and plants must go elsewere. We shall see if the change will benifit them long term though. Agter all they are now in a place were they are fed properly, have no salt to deal with, reasonable lighting (window) and soft sand. What else can a shrub desire?

What i think my problem was? Ether too low humidity (had to remove the glass cover after they grew too large to be contained in it) or (and) mineral dificiency (top new leafs faling to unfold properly). Yes they were sprayed several times a week. BTW they were not sprayed at all when they grew properly for a year, but under constantly high relative humidity (no salt washed off thoug).

[acurro]

Alot is what you get used to. Any organism. I give the example of water in Mexico (although it might have been changed at this point). If you grow up used to it, it doesn't bother you, but if you grow up with chlorinated water and try it for awhile it doesn't do your stomach well. An American can get used to it, but it takes a few unpleasant months.

[UrbanSage]

Does anyone know a good source of information regarding pruning of red mangroves?
I have seven growing in a small tank.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2/UrbanSage/Aquarium/2008%2010/DSCN7012.jpg

[acurro]

No, but they look very healthy. I think I read somewhere not to trim the axial tip till it is finished branching.

Other than that, maybe leaves can be removed one at a time from the top of the plant to keep it at a reasonable size. Not really sure.