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View Full Version : 7 month old tank - Completely stumped


BumbleBeeJBG
02/19/2009, 07:04 PM
Hello everyone, been having troubles these past few months with my tank, it's like new tank syndrome to the extreme, here is the brown algae badness, which is on everything:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9348.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9349.jpg

Here are some struggling button polyps, complete with brown algae:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9355.jpg

Here is my Crocea that has been drooling since day 1, have had him for about 4 months:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9353.jpg

Here is my recently dying Fox Coral, the top one died off a month ago and the bottom two that are obviously having issues, or are already dead started doing this a few weeks ago, the last polyp isn't lookin to healthy either:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9354.jpg

Here is my LMB, the day before he died (2 days ago):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/th_Sequence1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/?action=view&current=Sequence1.flv)

Here is a wide shot, notice the lack of water clarity and barren tank (cause I'm obviously not going to stock it with problems). The only fish not seen here is a Glider Goby:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/IMG_9356.jpg

So, no surprise but I'm reading between 2.5 and 5 phosphates on a Salifert test kit, everything else comes up within acceptable parameters (Alk, Calc, etc.) or completely untraceable (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia). I do 20% weekly water changes. Water temperature is chiller regulated @ 80 degrees. Lighting is a 150W sunpod that's about to be swapped for a 28G JBJ HQI stock hood w/ actinics.

Here is my sump right now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/sump_old.jpg

And this is what I'm planning to do, I'll have a Coralife fixture on the back of the tank shining into chamber 1 during night time hours for the Chaeto. My theory is the Oceanic protein skimmer is poop and that the refugium will do a better job for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/gaz_sh/sump.jpg

Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks, I'm at my wits end!

ati70cutlass
02/19/2009, 07:09 PM
id look into a phosban reactor. and then cut down on lighting , food, and start that algea to death. i ve had it before took a few weeks to get rid of. excess nutrients and too much light will cause algea blooms, but also its part of a new tank. i belive turbo or atrea snails feel on filament type algea

BumbleBeeJBG
02/19/2009, 07:12 PM
I just dosed some anti-phosphate stuff out of desperation, I'll replace the chemi-pure. My lighting is down to 6 hours a day and I feed every other day, only as much as the fish will eat which to be honest I'm not comfortable with and feel mean not doing at least once a day.

The past 2 days I upped the lighting to 8 hours a day to prep for the new hood which will be closer to the water which I will then put on a 6 hour cycle with 2 hours of actinics.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/19/2009, 07:14 PM
Oh and I have 3 turbos among other snails, a camel shrimp, and an emerald crab.

Mariner
02/19/2009, 07:24 PM
Here's a link (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php) to a pretty thorough article on phosphates. Your levels are way more than 10 times higher than they should be. Dosing some stuff for phosphates one time isn't going to cut it. You need to skim heavily, grow a load of macroalgae AND run a GFO like phosban continuously. Also, if you are not already doing so, use quality RO/DI water to mix your new saltwater.
HTH,
Mariner

BumbleBeeJBG
02/19/2009, 08:11 PM
Opppsss!! I meant .25 - .5!!!

Mariner
02/19/2009, 08:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14436376#post14436376 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BumbleBeeJBG
Opppsss!! I meant .25 - .5!!!
Yeh, I figured that. If you'll read the article you'll notice that Randy Holmes-Farley says, "My suggestion is for aquarists to target a phosphate concentration of 0.02 ppm phosphate, or less."
Mariner

tsprice82
02/19/2009, 11:34 PM
+1 on the phosphate attack. Bulk Reef Supply sells a great media reactor for less than $40. GFO is a huge help, IMO.

Robgixxer
02/19/2009, 11:42 PM
3 Geo Media Reactors on my tank. They keep all that bs in check. I have a seperate mag 5 on each one and they run a cycle on my AC3 Pro. One has Phosphate Sponge, one has Reef Carbon, and the other has Nitrate Sponge. They are programmed to run daily for 6 hrs.

Jenisiz
02/19/2009, 11:43 PM
FYI...your camel shrimp might not be to good for a reef...

MileHighFish
02/19/2009, 11:44 PM
your tank looks low on flow.. have you tried a power head or two.. try blowing off your rocks before the WC..

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 10:19 AM
Thanks for the advice all. In regards to flow, I have a Koralia Nano on the left of the tank behind the LR in a 4-5" cavern that runs the width of the tank blowing in that direction. I have a 300gph rated pump circulating from the sump.

The Camel shrimp hasn't been harming any coral that I've seen, why would it be bad for the reef?

I guess I'll have to look into phosphate control via media...

Rich D
02/20/2009, 10:30 AM
Thats a pretty new tank, did you have an algae bloom in your cycle? I would probably get some more flow in there too. How big is the tank?

jedheuer
02/20/2009, 10:32 AM
Same thing going on in my tank. That type of algae is easily removed with a turkey baster blasting on the rocks that have it on there. Use mechanical filtration to export the algae while you are bringing down phosphates. I am blasting the rocks twice a day and changing out my filter sock every other day. It is getting better but slowly. Good luck.
Oh yea, increase the flow in there too if you can. You have to low flow in my opinion.

surge19us
02/20/2009, 10:39 AM
What kind of water are you using? Have you tested it for Phos?
You should be using RO/DI. I'd also increase flow as noted above. Should be at least 30X tank volume. I'ts hard to tell from pics but is probably Cyano bacteria. More flow would help. Also the lawn mower blenny probably did not succumb to the phos or cyano. He seemed to be breathing heavy. Could be a sign of low dissolved oxygen(flow) or parasites. Try running some good activated carbon and GFO. Increase flow and test your source water.

Also are you dosing anything like vodka or sugar?

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 10:42 AM
What are you using for your filter sock?

fishysteve
02/20/2009, 10:43 AM
You said your return pump from the sump is rated at 300 gph. How many feet of head is there?

You definately need more flow from powerheads too.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 11:48 AM
How should I configure the flow? As in, how should I have them pointing?

jedheuer
02/20/2009, 12:19 PM
Put some up high, flowing on rocks and put some down low picking up detritus from the sand bed. Dont over do it though. Frogspawn doesnt like too much flow.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 12:45 PM
So what if I keep the Koralia Nano where it is, behind the rocks to make sure there's circulation back there and add a Koralia 1, right above it sort've mid level pointing out towards the clam?

surge19us
02/20/2009, 01:04 PM
What size tank is this?

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 01:09 PM
24 gallon

Peter Eichler
02/20/2009, 01:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14441360#post14441360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BumbleBeeJBG
So what if I keep the Koralia Nano where it is, behind the rocks to make sure there's circulation back there and add a Koralia 1, right above it sort've mid level pointing out towards the clam?

Clams don't usually like direct flow and I'd even move it from it's current location away from the return. Also, with what you have and the size tank I don't see much of a problem with your flow and far as inhabitants, though the low flow could be allowing detritus to settle on the rocks.

I think you're dealing with dinflagellates and not some typical algae.

This article should help...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

fitlerreef
02/20/2009, 01:25 PM
are you using chemi-pure or chemi-pure elite? Only chemi-pure elite is designed to lower phosphates (through ferric oxide media). i would suggest getting some chemi-pure elite or setting up a phosphate reactor with some ferric oxide media, like phosban.

This will help you get the phosphates down. Then, review your system for sources of the phosphate increase like your water and feeding habits. Try to maximize your refugium as a location for nutrient export.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 02:05 PM
I'm using just regular Chemi-pure. If I use Chemi-pure elite and add the Chaeto, is this going to be enough to make a difference?

Hattie B
02/20/2009, 02:31 PM
ps. don't forget to think of your clam too.

See how far the mantel is stretched upward; a sign of needing more light. They should not look like that.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 02:45 PM
Oh believe me, the state of my clam is a source of depression, so I'd love to talk about him. I can't see how he'd be needing more light seeing as he's in a 24g that has a 150w MH Sunpod!

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 05:22 PM
Guess I'll take the clam issues to the appropriate forum, thanks for the advice all, and I'm still checking this thread if anyone has anything to add.

rynon
02/20/2009, 06:16 PM
You can't have a foxface in a 24 gallon tank. You said you felt bad feeding the fish every other day and you have a foxface in that tank..that should make you feel bad, not the feeding.

The algae will go away if your patient, maybe you started things up too quickly.

BumbleBeeJBG
02/20/2009, 08:49 PM
I'm getting rid of the Foxface, I got bad advice from the LFS. Only reason why he's not gone tonight is cause I didn't want to stir the tank up trying to get him quickly to get to there before they closed.

Jenisiz
02/20/2009, 10:40 PM
In regards to the camel...."It usually tolerates other shrimp, but may nip at colonial anemones, disc anemones, and soft leather corals. It generally leaves bubble coral and stinging anemones alone. " - Live aquaria...

BumbleBeeJBG
02/21/2009, 06:49 AM
Well I've had him since the tank cycled and he hasn't bothered anything yet, I'll be sure to keep an eye on him though.

jener8tionx
02/21/2009, 07:13 AM
+1 for more flow. I really think that is part of the secret. Along with either very regular water changes or a good skimmer, I think you'll be back in business.

KenT
02/21/2009, 07:50 AM
Reduce your water changes. Try biweekly 5-10%. Also, what are you using to measure your salinity? I was using a glass hydrometer that turned out to not be accurate and my salinity was 1.030!