View Full Version : Who has had Dinoflagellates ?
reefrubble
02/20/2009, 06:46 PM
Who on here has had Dinoflagellates , and how did you eradicate it ?
jterrell
02/20/2009, 07:51 PM
I have dinos now but they are almost (fingers crossed) gone. I started out by raising Alk and PH with lights out for four days. This slowed them down but they still persisted. I maintained high Alk and PH for a week and syphoned out what I could but the dinos still grew, mind you slower but they still managed. I also didn't feed the fish for about a week and didn't do water changes. Then two days ago I installed a UV filter. The UV filter was a last resort but it seems to be working. Every day there are less of the dinos.With the UV filter installed I have been blowing the rocks and sand off with a turkey baster to keep the dinos in the water columb.
Iammatt219
02/20/2009, 07:56 PM
I have had them. I rean with no lights for a bout a weeek and put on a diatom filter which I cleaned daily, did daily water changes and skimmed super wet.
I also ran uv, and blew off the rocks whenever I could
reefrubble
02/20/2009, 08:28 PM
jterrell , How long have you been fighting Dino ? How many Watts of UV , are you running ?
reefrubble
02/20/2009, 08:30 PM
Iammatt219 , Are you Dino free now ? If you are Dino free , how long has it been ?
jterrell
02/20/2009, 08:39 PM
I have had them for about two months now. At first I thought I had some form of diatoms or cyno. (My tank is only three months old) I had to ID them under a microscope. I would say that they are now 90% under control.
jterrell
02/20/2009, 08:41 PM
Oh and I am running 25 watts Gamma UV by current. It is rated for min 125 gal. at 1200 gph.
reefrubble
02/20/2009, 08:42 PM
jterrell , Thank You for your help .
jterrell
02/20/2009, 09:05 PM
No problem. Dinoflagellets seem to be going around right now. Here are some links that I have found helpful.
www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=687378&perpage=25&highlight=blackout&page... - 161k
www.reefcentral.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=956133&pe...
www.reefcentral.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=687378&pe...
I had them in 2004... Got rid of them through:
* No waterchanges
* Reduced lighting
* Skimming very wet
* Elevated pH around 8.45 with Kalk addition
* 3-4 months
GFO wasn't all that popular, nor available at the time. If I had them today I would do the same, but changing GFO and fresh quality carbon frequently.
CorkPullerPHL
02/20/2009, 09:52 PM
Distilled Water, Distilled Water, Distilled Water.
Ph of 8.5
Lights out. 3 days every two weeks worked for me.
My SPS all survived, though they weren't happy. It took 6 weeks to get rid of. The Dino's were followed by Diatoms and then Bryopsis. I think its finally under control. I took about 3 months to get my tank totally clean again.
plancton
02/20/2009, 10:36 PM
Read my thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1569829
I thought it was algae what I was fighting, right now there are not many, but don´t know if they have slowed down. But I can tell you what I´ve done so far.
Didnt make a difference:
-phos reactor
-often water changes
-High magnesium
-keep nutrients low
What is making a difference:
-Removed sandbed
-Bought a huge Sailfin tang just for display purposes but its munching the dinos a lot, they don´t seem to be toxic to fish or sea hare.
-Sea hares, if you introduce 8-10 of them in a 175 gal they can erradicate it, but sometimes they come back, in my case I used 4 and they ate about 70% then 2 sea hares disappeared after 2 months and dinos started to come back, the 2 remaining sea hares no longer could finish the job, and they both died in powerheads.
-High PH might be helping a bit
-Did 3 days lights out, that is what works the most, I´m thinking doing 3 days out every month.
-Added fluorish nitrogen, because for 2 years my nitrates and phosphates were 0, somebody suggested the dinos were feeding on something else and adding nitrates could boost their competition and kill them, my nitrates raised to 3 ppm that could of had positive results but I did it after lights out period, with no sandbed, a sea hare, and sailfin tang, so don´t really know if it did something good.
-reduced photoperiod.
-Stop water changes, somebody suggested they might feed on trace elements on new water, I was doing water changes every 2-3 weeks, now I´m waiting 6 weeks, sometimes you could wait more as long as you have a test to measure nitrates are not way to high.
-Finally added Algaefix, I did the first dose yesterday so I don´t really see any difference but supposedly it does help and it is perfectly safe, they say you start seeing results at 2nd or 3rd dose.
chrisstie
02/20/2009, 11:18 PM
I remember having this problem last year around the same time of year. Is it possible that something, somehow, despite our tanks being closed systems, makes this a seasonal occurence?
plancton
02/21/2009, 10:34 AM
Not really, you control the temp, plus here in Mexico winter is almost like spring.
chrisstie
02/21/2009, 11:17 AM
I'm in florida here and I imagine we have similar weather. No I'm thinking something more along the lines of something that shows up at certain times of year maybe based on other things like barometric pressure, seasons changing.. like whatever dinos come from maybe they are dormant other times of the year.
I'm sure that there are some things that can affect our tank despite it being a closed system.
Would you ID this as dinos
<a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/sdsweeney/?action=view¤t=2009_02070075.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l273/sdsweeney/2009_02070075.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
plancton
02/21/2009, 12:16 PM
I wouldneed a picture viewed from the front of that, it looks from the right where you can see the bubbles to have the similar pattern, could be dinos.
I dont have a pic from the front. I will try and get one in a few days. Its strange it only grows on the glass not on the rock or sand
Not sure how others view it, but I think when people get a strain of dinos, they somehow believe that it is a battle that can be won over night. And I just don't think this is the case. The shotgun approach seems to be very popular right now and I'm not sure it is the best method.
There is obviously a theme to dinos and it still seems no one is exactly sure why they pop up, nor the best method of getting rid of them. So far the biggest advice I can give is to go slowly in any adjustments and employ one method at a time. Taking too many actions at once will not narrow what solved the problem for others.
Just my humble opinion having dealt with and beat them. Although discouraged, I just took the it is a phase approach and solved them slowly.
fishysteve
02/21/2009, 04:02 PM
I had dinos about 5 years ago. All of my astreas died, I read somewhere that some species of dinos can paralyze snails except for conchs. So I got some fighting conchs and did some extra water changes. Dinos were gone in about 3 weeks.
CorkPullerPHL
02/21/2009, 05:43 PM
Be careful with the water changes.
I am positive that my dino's came from dirty ro/di water (I left my filters get old). This is why i say use distilled water for changes until you get the problem under control.
Best of luck.
plancton
02/21/2009, 06:22 PM
I don´t see how a RO can be such a problem they are all the same, the only thing that changes is the cartdriges. So I changed the carbon and sedimentation cartdriges every 4 month, and after 2 years I changed the resin, I was told it didn´t need to change it but it needed to be cleaned and it would take 2 weeks for them to do so, so I just said gimme a new one, and so that´s what I did.
The DI resin I change it every 3 months.
As someone pointed out dinos might feed on trace elements introduced with new saltwater. Everybody has told me they had seen improvements by not doing water changes in a while.
rynon
02/21/2009, 06:44 PM
I really don't want to post this since I'll likely be flamed........whatever. dinoflagellates happen in the ocean, why not your tank? Seasonal is the best answer I've read on here, the rest seem to go back to anything that kill algae which is WRONG if you ask me. Go to a reef, you think it's free of algae, NO, it has seagrass algae all throughout, suppliers haven't been able to supply us with this.......IMO anyway but I believe that's the problem. Does your reef appear like a reef on the ocean? I doubt it...........highly. I did a lot of diving last year, what I saw, no hermits, no snails, a **** load of urchins, a ton of seagrass, and a ton of corals with one anemone in the mix....surprised me. Your not pulling enough nutrients, adding too many got you in this mess. Don't use a stupid simple answer like add eurithromycin to your tank. If you were to go diving and see the algae, you would know most is natural, this site doesn't support that.
jterrell
02/21/2009, 10:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14450662#post14450662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rynon
I really don't want to post this since I'll likely be flamed........whatever. dinoflagellates happen in the ocean, why not your tank? Seasonal is the best answer I've read on here, the rest seem to go back to anything that kill algae which is WRONG if you ask me. Go to a reef, you think it's free of algae, NO, it has seagrass algae all throughout, suppliers haven't been able to supply us with this.......IMO anyway but I believe that's the problem. Does your reef appear like a reef on the ocean? I doubt it...........highly. I did a lot of diving last year, what I saw, no hermits, no snails, a **** load of urchins, a ton of seagrass, and a ton of corals with one anemone in the mix....surprised me. Your not pulling enough nutrients, adding too many got you in this mess. Don't use a stupid simple answer like add eurithromycin to your tank. If you were to go diving and see the algae, you would know most is natural, this site doesn't support that.
rynon you have made a very good point. Algae is a very important part of nature. As a scuba diver myself I know what you are trying to say...but in our tiny bits of reef system most of us don't have the luxury of all those urchins to keep algae down. On a reef in the ocean there are hundreds of critters that eat algae but in our tanks we have to use what can live in our systems. I don't worry any more about algae growing in my tank, I just trim it back as it grows out but there are certain types of algae that I do not want at all. Dinoflagellets are in our tanks and are in the corals that we keep, however certain types of dinos will kill every thing in our tanks and that is something to get rid of. I agree that nutrient export is the best means of algae control and I have never added a "poison" to kill algae. Dinoflageletts (the bad kind) however seem to appear in systems with almost no nutrients and seem to prosper with nutreint control, ie water changes.
This thread was started about a certain kind of algae that is hard to control, we don't want red tide in our tanks!
reefrubble
02/22/2009, 05:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14452242#post14452242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jterrell
rynon you have made a very good point. Algae is a very important part of nature. As a scuba diver myself I know what you are trying to say...but in our tiny bits of reef system most of us don't have the luxury of all those urchins to keep algae down. On a reef in the ocean there are hundreds of critters that eat algae but in our tanks we have to use what can live in our systems. I don't worry any more about algae growing in my tank, I just trim it back as it grows out but there are certain types of algae that I do not want at all. Dinoflagellets are in our tanks and are in the corals that we keep, however certain types of dinos will kill every thing in our tanks and that is something to get rid of. I agree that nutrient export is the best means of algae control and I have never added a "poison" to kill algae. Dinoflageletts (the bad kind) however seem to appear in systems with almost no nutrients and seem to prosper with nutreint control, ie water changes.
This thread was started about a certain kind of algae that is hard to control, we don't want red tide in our tanks! jterrell , Thank you . My RO/DI water has 0 TDS . ,Phosphates .04 Hannameter ,NO3 1.1LaMotte , Alk. 3.4 ELOS , PH 8.25 AC II . Salt TM Pro. Water change 60 gal . every other week . I had it bad .
reefrubble
02/22/2009, 05:47 AM
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Reefrubble/IMG_0517.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Reefrubble/IMG_0516.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Reefrubble/IMG_0511.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Reefrubble/IMG_0510.jpg
3D-Reef
02/22/2009, 08:06 AM
It's My understanding that dino's live off of dissolved organics/humic substances.I've been fighting them the last few months thinking they were cyanobacteria.Dosing chem-clean a couple of times,doing water changes to syphon it off,keeping the skimmer tuned in,and cleaned out.But the most effective thing I've done so far is to hit it hard with carbon.By that I mean,I have been putting in new carbon every 24 hrs,while useing just enough make-up water to syphon off the dino's.This also helps keep the essentual elements from being depleated.
I'll be putting My UV back on today.This should help because the UV will produce tiny amounts of ozone.Ozone does two things to help.It will kill any dino's in the water and eliminate the humic substances that they live on.I would get an ozoner but it's out of the range of My pocketbook at the moment. :)
chrisstie
02/22/2009, 09:51 AM
reefrubble thats a form of cyanobacteria, not dinos.
gdm42001
02/22/2009, 10:33 AM
anyone have a good pic of dinos?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14454243#post14454243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
reefrubble thats a form of cyanobacteria, not dinos.
+1...
plancton
02/22/2009, 11:53 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/avillax/IMG_0695.jpg
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14454508#post14454508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gdm42001
anyone have a good pic of dinos?
gdm42001
02/22/2009, 12:31 PM
when you take it out, or scrub it off does it have an odor?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14455289#post14455289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gdm42001
when you take it out, or scrub it off does it have an odor?
Some do and some don't. There are several strains of dinos. Mine did not smell. The strain my neighbor had that looked the same did smell and took out some of his inverts.
gdm42001
02/22/2009, 01:13 PM
Mine kinda smells like when you pull pulsing xenia out of the water, and I believe it is knocking off astrea snails
plancton
02/22/2009, 02:44 PM
Yeah mine has a similar smell to pulsing xenia and algae
chrisstie
02/22/2009, 07:40 PM
The best way to describe dinos I've learned with other reefers is "boogars."
http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=217955&stc=1&d=1232682704
thats a very common looking bit of it.
gdm42001
02/22/2009, 08:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14458426#post14458426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
The best way to describe dinos I've learned with other reefers is "boogars."
http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=217955&stc=1&d=1232682704
thats a very common looking bit of it.
Yea, I have some of that going on in my sump/fuge
jterrell
02/22/2009, 09:51 PM
Here are some pics of mine...
http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg468/jterrell2372/100_2993.jpg
Growing on sand
http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg468/jterrell2372/100_2990.jpg
Growing on Zoas
jterrell
02/22/2009, 09:53 PM
Oops that last photo IS NOT Zoas!
Here is te right pic...
http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg468/jterrell2372/100_2997-1-1.jpg
plancton
02/22/2009, 11:00 PM
Yeah I know, they suck, the worst monster, I don´t know what kind of karma we did in our past lives to deserve something like this.
There´s hope at the end of the rainbow though, mines although still there are not thriving as good as before, I think they are in the process of dissapearing, right now administering the second dose of algaefix, will let you know how things turn out, if after the third dose I see no difference then I´m adding more sea hares. Everytime they come back they are doing it weaker now.
chrisstie
02/22/2009, 11:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinoflagellate
There's some stuff on there to suggest why dinos are so difficult and perhaps some evidence to back up the fact they could be seasonale since they can pseudo-hybernate.
torhav
02/23/2009, 01:54 AM
I had a lot of dinoflaggelates (confimed by checking in a microscope) a couple of weeks ago. Today they are all gone.
This is what I did:
First attempt:
Adding kalkwasser and no light for two days: Still there. Stopped kalkwasser dosing.
Second attempt:
Tried FM algen ex for three days (5 ml/100l), and total black out the two first days (covered tank with black garbage bags): Still there, but not as much as before. Aborted algen ex dosing as corals started to excrete slime and a lot of copepods died just minutes after dosing.
Third attempt:
20% water change, added GFO and started dosing KNO3 until 3-4 ppm NO3, nothing else: GONE!
I tried all of these treatments within three weeks. The third attempt was to get rid of cyano, not the dinos.
I do not know if it was the KNO3 and GFO that killed the dinos, or the kombination of all attempts. All I know is that the dino is gone.
reefrubble
02/23/2009, 04:29 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14454243#post14454243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
reefrubble thats a form of cyanobacteria, not dinos.
I thought it was cyano as well , but it was not . There is more than one type of dino . To be sure you need to use a microscope . You can have a mix of Dinoflagellates , and Cyanobacteria , at least this is what I read in another thread (somewhere here on RC ) .
plancton
02/23/2009, 11:27 AM
Well the GFO did nothing to them in my case, whatever I did that is working I don´t know since I did many things at the same time:
First removed the sandbed
secondly lights out for 3 days, many died but came back
third added NO3, the only problem is that I added fluorish nitrogen and they say it comes from Urea, so its not exactly KNO3, but it does add potassium and NO3, I thought it didn´t work but dinos are not thriving as good now, oh also adding kalk and magnesium , my ph is 8.7 right now, so I haven´t add anything in almost 2 weeks.
By the way, where do you buy that pure KNO3 source?, what available fertilizer or something is there? cuz I never found it but fluorish nitrogen was the closest thing.
jterrell
02/24/2009, 05:50 PM
Well I hooked up the UV filter last Thursday and began blasting the dinos off the rocks and sand. I am happy to report that as of today I am dino free! (knock on wood) I will continue to use the uv filter for about a week and I will do a water change next Monday. All the snails are out and looking normal and the few corals I have are showing major signs of improving. In all I lost 6 trocus snails and four blue/green chromis but hopefully now I can get back to enjoying the tank.
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