Recession & Career Path taking its tole on my hobby - input please

[mattsilvester]

Note. With the greatest of respect to EVERYONE, the "question" section of this post is aimed mainly at more mature hobbiests, with a few years under their belt.

Hey Folks;

As some of you already know, I have been one of many people made redundant during this recession, which promises to be an enduring test for all of our finances for the foreseeable future...... My current career path adds to this, and it looks like I will be going overseas to work.

To that end, my hobby, or specifically my 240 gal tank is becoming a burden which may prove too much for the foreseeable future, and I am left with the painful deceision of whether I should sell up & shut it down altogether?

I do have one contingency plan: currently, I would estimate that my tank absorbs anywhere upwards of 5% of my salary (potential) in electrical costs alone. This is largely due to my sump being located outdoors in a shed, and the 500W of MH lamps I have on the display. My "thoughts" are that I might get rid of all my fish except my beloved emporer angel and disconnect the sump entirely. Then get a couple of standard output flourescent tubes (I have the starter units & reflectors). This would essentially mean that the 240 gal would comprise of a single emporer angel (7") with 200 lbs of Fiji LR, two Tunze 6101's for circulation, a simple heater-stat.

It might seem it would be just easier to call it quits, bow out, and return to the hobby when circumstances allow...... here's why I don't want to do that:

1. The tank is built into a cabinet that ru ns the entire length of the lounge wall...... "removing" the tank would let a big hole, and the "expense" of rectifying that would be prohibative.
2. I really like my emporer angel, and I feel a responsibility to him. Here in Ireland there are very few people with (a) the space, or (b) the expertise to keep him and I would think he'd be dead within a few months.

The Question
Do people think this is a feasible proposition? Is a 240 gal tank with no skimmer and just 200lbs of LR in a BB setup going to be sufficient to maintain my angelfish in an acceptable environment? I know there are other strategies such as growing macro algae, or running skimmers in one form or another, but in my situation that is simply just not going to happen. THe tank will get a good water change a couple of times a year, and thats it.

I am appreciative of anyone that has thetime & inclination to discuss this matter.

Many thanks,

[Mentat]

Sorry to hear, you are not alone on this mess and the world economics appear have not hit rock bottom yet.

If possible, reccomend try your plan before leaving. It's a big tank with good load of seasoned LR; still recommend testing your water change plan. Can check on Nitrate levels for a couple weeks and plot a chart. Then make determination of required water changes schedule and see if you can handle it.

It might help to add a couple Aquaclear 110's HOB power filters (run at 14 watts ea.) and train person who's going to care for tank while you are gone how to clean them. Also, ensure they do not overfeed your Emperor. Best of luck and hope you can keep your pet!

[mattsilvester]

Thanks Mentat,

Yes - hopefully I can keep him. So long as it is possible, marine fishkeeping will always be part of my life. If I settle into this new job, which hopefully I will, then I can look at shipping my fish over with me ;)

Rgards,

Matt

[jmccown]

If you are going overseas to work, will there be someone at home to tend to the tank - topoffs, feedings, the little stuff?

I recently shaved off quite a bit on my energy expenditures myself Matt, ridding of the MH lighting, switching to T-5's (shaved off 540 watts there) and ridding of my energy hog skimmer (saved another 100 watts there). Total energy savings of about 650 watts.

I personally think you could pull it off with a single fish in the 240 gallon with no skimmer and minimal water changes. Like Mentat said, the AC110's are probably the best HOB powerfilters out there. If you could change out 100 gallons every other month I think you will be able to pull this off till things pick back up for you.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14470300#post14470300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmccown
If you are going overseas to work, will there be someone at home to tend to the tank - topoffs, feedings, the little stuff?

I recently shaved off quite a bit on my energy expenditures myself Matt, ridding of the MH lighting, switching to T-5's (shaved off 540 watts there) and ridding of my energy hog skimmer (saved another 100 watts there). Total energy savings of about 650 watts.

I personally think you could pull it off with a single fish in the 240 gallon with no skimmer and minimal water changes. Like Mentat said, the AC110's are probably the best HOB powerfilters out there. If you could change out 100 gallons every other month I think you will be able to pull this off till things pick back up for you.

Thanks Jason -
Yes.... the Mrs. will be staying home.... at least initially. There are many factors to consider on the logistics outside things relating to the tank..... in summary, the plan is that I will go ahead and blaze the trail (its only Scotland that I am potentially heading to..... so its not that far) for 6 months...... all going well the Mrs. will follow on a a few months after that...... but there are many extraneous factors, including the property market and our current mortgage..... we might hold on to our property here, we might sell it, we might rent it, we might "board it up"..... but in any eventuality, I need to reel in those running costs effectively more or less immediately.

So, in answer to your question, yes there will be someone to keep things ticking over..... I have an auto top off unit which can be adapted to the tank, lights are on timers, it really is just a case of checking the temperature, feeding, and cleaning the front glass.

My way of thinking is that I will be reducing the food input by aobut 80%...... and 240 gals is a good volume of water for a 7" fish......

[kirkaz]

Sorry to hear this Matt....There is a nice aquarium just outside of Edinburgh if you decide it's not worth the effort to keep the tank going, I suspect they would gladly accept your Emperor and provide him appropriate accomodations.

[Wolverine]

Sorry to hear about this Matt.

Is there any chance you'd be moving back eventually? Your post listed selling the housing, renting it, or boarding it up as options, but not returning to it. If there''s little chance of you moving back, I'd seriously consider getting rid of the fish, as much as that will pain you to do.

If you decide to keep it, I think the tank can handle it, but, if it were me, I'd want more frequent water changes, since you're going without a skimmer, and you won't have direct control over things like feedings; I've found that, no matter how specific I get about food, the people who watch my tanks have always tended to overfeed. That's tolerable for a tank for a few days, but it will be tougher over the course of months.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14471321#post14471321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wolverine
Sorry to hear about this Matt.

Is there any chance you'd be moving back eventually? Your post listed selling the housing, renting it, or boarding it up as options, but not returning to it. If there''s little chance of you moving back, I'd seriously consider getting rid of the fish, as much as that will pain you to do.

If you decide to keep it, I think the tank can handle it, but, if it were me, I'd want more frequent water changes, since you're going without a skimmer, and you won't have direct control over things like feedings; I've found that, no matter how specific I get about food, the people who watch my tanks have always tended to overfeed. That's tolerable for a tank for a few days, but it will be tougher over the course of months.

Good advice, thanks.

Yes, there is a chance I'll return...... To put folks in the picture, I have essentially been provisionally offered a role in Scotland. It is a permanant position and the company would like for me to relocate with my entire family. I am obviously not going to put all my eggs in one basket all at once, so I will be doing so on a phased basis...... but as to what the time scale is, well thats anyone's guess, depending on many factors. I obvisouly envisage this move as has having long term merrit, or I wouldn't be considering it, but if it goes according to plan, then I will be moving all my furniture etc. (its only a few hundred miles after all)..... so I could bring the fish too. That might be a bit naive of me, but it is not impossible.

cheers,

MAtt

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14470473#post14470473 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kirkaz
Sorry to hear this Matt....There is a nice aquarium just outside of Edinburgh if you decide it's not worth the effort to keep the tank going, I suspect they would gladly accept your Emperor and provide him appropriate accomodations.

Thanks for the input. Are you in Scotland by any chance?

[kirkaz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14471429#post14471429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
Thanks for the input. Are you in Scotland by any chance?

A group of my golf members here made a golf trip to Scottland. One guy in the group whom also keeps SW tanks made a stop there and said it was quite good. I googled it when you mentioned it.

http://www.deepseaworld.com/

[MatthewLaw]

i understand your method, but what about investing in a HOB Skimmer like an Aqua C Remora / Pro? Although the skimmer is significnatly underrated for the tank, there is only ONE fish inside.

This should make filtration and care pretty easy. Your wife would only need to empty the collection cup every few days. Just an idea.

[danorth]

I think that the angel would be fine.

You will need the ph to be watched. I am horrible with water changes with this new tank, only have done 2 since August. I bet with one fish, and really clean water to start that you could go a whole year without a change. One thing I would suggest is mechanical filtration. If you had a couple of HOB filters like the Emperor 400 and just used it for the filter pads, if they could be pulled and rinsed with a spray nozzle would help remove junk from the water.

Will the Mrs. help with the tank cleaning at all?

[mattsilvester]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I do have a couple of internal power filters which are probaby suitable - the Mrs. would manage those alright. Generally, she probably would do a few "chores" however the less there needs to be done, the less that can go wrong, if you see my logic.

I want to avoid skimmers of all kinds at all costs.... they can clog, over flow, etc. and they are noisy which she certainly wouldn't put up with.

In any case, I cannot justify, nor can I afford to "spend" any money on the tank at this time. A couple of flourescent tubes, and thats it.

[barbianj]

I am upgrading my 125 with the 10" Queen Trigger, but I didn't have any problems going without a skimmer. I had the smaller Tidepool sump, and the water was exceptionally clean. Of course, the nitrates were extremely high, but it sure didn't seem to harm the fish, and she gets fed a lot.

With my new sump set-up, I am in the second week of trying an ATS. My nitrates were well over 100, and the test yesterday showed 30. It's still too early to tell if the nitrates will continue to fall, but supposedly an ATS can drof the nitrates to zero. The maintenance consists of removing the algae growth from one side of the screen once a week. No big deal. I like to see for myself if something works or not. So far, it seams at least promising.

If you have only the fish and no corals, you should be able to maintain a healthy tank with a much lower energy consumption.

[mattsilvester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14472731#post14472731 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barbianj
I am upgrading my 125 with the 10" Queen Trigger, but I didn't have any problems going without a skimmer. I had the smaller Tidepool sump, and the water was exceptionally clean. Of course, the nitrates were extremely high, but it sure didn't seem to harm the fish, and she gets fed a lot.

With my new sump set-up, I am in the second week of trying an ATS. My nitrates were well over 100, and the test yesterday showed 30. It's still too early to tell if the nitrates will continue to fall, but supposedly an ATS can drof the nitrates to zero. The maintenance consists of removing the algae growth from one side of the screen once a week. No big deal. I like to see for myself if something works or not. So far, it seams at least promising.

If you have only the fish and no corals, you should be able to maintain a healthy tank with a much lower energy consumption.

This is reassuring - thanks for your input..... with a fish half that size in a tank twice as big, I should have good sucess if your experience is anything to judge by ;)

I might throw in a couple of damsels or something like that, that will pick up small bits of food etc that the emperor misses.

[Jerry W]

Matt,
IME, a large system with a good amount of mature live rock is usually quite stable. With only one fish, sensible feedings and even a modest water change regimen, your tank/fish should fare well. Definitely go with normal output flourescent bulbs and have your wife run them for maybe 4-6 hours a day. I've slacked on water changes on my 120 before, having gone close to two months w/o doing one and the params all were in check, with nitrates being only 40 ppm. I don't run a skimmer on my 120 and while I have a sump, I could easily convert back to a simple hang on filter method with minimal maintainance. My suggestion would be to plan on keeping the tank and running it bare bones, with a contingency plan for the fish should something go wrong. I appreciate your dedication to the emperor angel. I think most of us have that one special fish we would be content to keep for it's life span. Sounds like your job opportunity might lend itself to moving the tank to your new home at some point, so selling it off may casue you some deep regrets later on. Your posts and input here reflect your love for the hobby, and you're not likely one who would give it up easily. I say keep the tank running, simply, and educate your wife on what needs to be done to maintain it. One of the reasons I love FOWLR systems is the ease in which they can be kept. Best of luck to you in your new venture.

[Mentat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14475115#post14475115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jerry W
Matt,
IME, a large system with a good amount of mature live rock is usually quite stable....

Well said Mr. Jerry W. Agree with your counsel and wish could express myself like that.

[jmccown]

I would just get a few hermits instead of the damsels for cleanup duty. Never know with damsels, Matt. They might wail on the emperor someday.

[mattsilvester]

Jerry - thanks for that - very useful info given the fact you are running a somehwat similar system.

Jason - was actually thinking along similar lines...... as you might have noticed yourself, angels can be lazy eaters..... if it doesn't "swim" right past their snout....... and to that end, I am half thinking about letting my remaining few anthias in there...... they'll do a great job of hoovering up little particles, and they are there - in situ - so need to worry about disease & q-tine etc. I don't think they'll add much bioload.

Thanks for everyones input here. Much appreciated. I am going to start making plans in the next day or two to start off loading fish...... I'll probably just send them back to my LFS and take some credit or something for them..... I have neither the time nor inclination to be selling them off piece meal fashion.

Cheers

Matt

[techigirl78]

I have a couple tangs (8" blue tang and 5" yellow) and a few other small fish in a skimmerless/sumpless 125gal for awhile now (2-3 years). I would also consider getting some macro algae or similar for the display. I have halimeda and xenia in my 125gal and it seems to help keep nitrates lower. I also had UV sterilizers and smaller hang on protein skimmers hooked up to the tank at one point, but good water movement and occassional water changes seem to keep nitrates in check so I disconnected them. You will just need to monitor things a little more closely.

I think you'll be fine keeping your fish and a lot happier long term if you can manage. Good luck with your new role!

[mattsilvester]

Well guys - I just thought I'd update ya'll.

When I started this thread, it looked like my career path (more specifically, my joblessness) was going to take me overseas and so on..... hence a severe program of rationalisation was being planned.........

Anyway - I have secured a posting a bit closer to home..... so it looks like I have been saved by the bell, at the last minute. I will still probably reduce stock, and finally get rid of the remaining corals...... but the fish have been given a pardon, at least for the time being.

Thte new job will see me working away from home 5 days / 4 nights of the week...... so we'll be doing everything possible to reduce maintenance - but it looks like I'm back in the game
;) :D :beer: :bounce1: :bounce3: :dance: :thumbsup:

[MatthewLaw]

sounds good!! good luck!!

[j4mypets]

Great news!:rollface:

[barbianj]

Good to hear! :beer:

[Wolverine]

Great news.
And congrats on the new job.

[LisaD]

Congratulations Matt! The world economy is very tough. My brothers, in another state, were both laid off at their respective workplaces. Each had put in over 20 years at the same company. Several of my neighbors have also lost jobs or had their hours cut. My husband's company has started a furlough program. We are both very lucky to still have jobs, but are nervous, like just about everyone else. I hope it works out well for you and that you can keep your fish in the long term.

[billsreef]

:beer: