Attempting to save an RBTA! Please help!

[congerorama]

Hi all, I'm pretty desperate for any information, experience, suggestions, etc... for what I can do to help my RBTA. I'll give a super-quick background, then post a series of pictures and tell a story. Please bear with me!

I have a 1-year old 90 gallon FOWLR, which I've kept lightly stocked, and cleaned/supplemented as if I am keeping a reef (for practice). I've just started to acquire some zoas and mushrooms, and decided to get an RBTA when I saw one was available from my (previously) favorite online supplier.

When the anemone arrived, he was in horrible condition :mad2:... starved, shriveled, losing tentacles, etc. At least he wasn't bleached, but that was the least of my concerns. See the attached image, this was my anemone (a couple of months ago) as it arrived:


http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post1/01.jpg

[Anemone]

The short tentacles might indicate a feeding deficiency, or the might just be the anemone adapting to your aquarium conditions. Does your anemone take food?

Kevin

[congerorama]

So, for the first few weeks, I fed it daily. Small cuts of silverside, at first it couldn't even grab the food on it's own, I had to hold the food lightly against its mouth until it opened its mouth and grabbed it. The anemone wasn't sticky at all.

My lighting at this point was a Coralife Lunar Aqualight, 260 W of PC lighting. Knowing this wasn't enough, I placed the anemone right near the surface, directly under the light.

Over the next few weeks, the anemone's health improved substantially. A few pictures are worth a few thousand words:

after a week
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post1/02.jpg

after another week
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post1/03.jpg

after another week
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post1/04.JPG

[congerorama]

Obviously the poor guy had a long way to go, but compared to how bad he was when he arrived, I was feeling encouraged.

After a month or so, I made two major equipment upgrades: I got a Current USA Outer Orbit MH + PC light fixture, with two 150W MH bulbs and two 130W PC actinics. I also upgraded my protein skimmer to an AquaC EV-180.

Since I now had Metal Halides, I moved the anemone further down in the tank (didn't remove it from its rock, just moved the whole rock without disturbing the anemone itself). I also slowed down my feedings at this point as well, feeding every 2 or 3 days. Here are some shots I took right after adding the new light. So far, so good.

http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post2/01.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post2/02.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post2/03.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post2/04.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post2/05.jpg

[congerorama]

Unfortunately, a few days after adding the new light, the anemone's recovery started to get a bit rocky. The new light "seemed" to bright for him right off the bat. He would look incredibly shriveled/deflated, gaping mouth, just down-right bad during the day light. When it was dawn/dusk, not so bad, and at night, he actually looked really good.

Pics of each light setting:

http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post3/01.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post3/02.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post3/03.jpg

I did not reduce the daylight time when moving to the new light (probably a mistake). My light cycle was: actinics on from 1PM to 11PM, daylights on from 2PM to 9PM.

[congerorama]

luckily, after about a week or so, the anemone appeared to be adjusting to the light. He would still look less-than-OK sometimes, but all-in-all he was looking good, even during daylight cycle. In fact, he was looking larger than normal... tentacles were still pretty short, but compared to how he looked when I got him, I was feeling very optimistic about this guy's ability to make a recovery.

Here are some pics of him during daylight, just a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post4/01.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post4/02.jpg
http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post4/03.jpg

[congerorama]

Now, here's where it begins to go downhill yet again. I had to move to a new apartment :( . I knew that wasn't going to be good for him, but hoped I could make the move as painless as possible.

One important (I think) change I made, was a completely replaced my sandbed. At first, I scooped up some of the sand from the upper layer of my bed before the move, then tossed the rest. I then added about 4" of new sand at the new home, and dropped the sand I scraped from the top on top of this new sand. BTW, I have about 150lbs of liverock that I kept under water during the whole move, so hopefully that will help provide sufficient biological filtration while this new sandbed gets activated and stabilized.

Anyways, the move took place two weeks ago (V-day weekend). Here's a picture of the new setup:

http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post5/02.jpg

[congerorama]

So here we are today, the anemone really looks bad... the picture below is him on one of his better days :(.

At night times, he looks better, but during the day he just looks like death. I am at a loss for what to do for him at this point. He was making such good progress, and now I feel like he might be on the brink of death, and I don't want to lose him!

At first, I was angry when I was given the sickly anemone that I received, but then I decided to look at it as a challenge, and learning experience, to try and nurse it back to health. I was doing so well, and I don't want to lose it now!

If anyone has advice, experience, suggestions, or even further questions, please let me know. I appreciate anything that you guys can offer!

http://www.hcs.ufl.edu/~conger/anemone/post5/01.jpg

[PRDubois]

Put him lower

[jmadison]

Are you testing water?
Adding the sand can cause another cycle or mini cycle. If possible you could do a large(30%) waterchange. You could possibly move nem lower, but at the same time, the nem would move if it wasnt happy where it was. After the move, you didnt say if he was eating at all or if you had tried to feed him.

[congerorama]

thanks for the replies guys.

I will test the water this weekend (tomorrow) and update with the new readings in the new setup, before the move, I tested every weekend, and the latest readings were as follows:

pH 8.2
sg 1.024
Ammonia/Nitrites 0
Nitrates 5
Phosphates 0
Calcium 440
Alkalinity 11 dKH
Magnesium 1320


I dose daily with B-Ionic two-part supplement, Kent Marine Tech-M as necessary, and Kent Marine Calcium Supplement occasionally if the Ca readings drop.

Since the move, he doesn't want to eat very much. He used to readily respond to food I would hand him, but not so much since the move. I've gotten him to eat once, but thats it. I'm really worried!

I also thought about moving him lower, but as someone else said, I figured he would move if he was unhappy with his current location. Thanks again for the replies! I'll update the thread with my test results tomorrow. Already planning a 25 gal water change this weekend.

[congerorama]

about the new sand bed causing a mini-cycle, I anticipated that. I decided to replace it anyways, for a couple of reasons: (A) there was no way to not disturb the old sandbed during the move, so I didn't want to stir it up and then keep it, and (B) it wasn't quite deep enough, and I wantd to go with a deep sand bed at my new location.

To help combat the unavoidable mini-cycle, I used a decently large dose of Prime right when I set it up (I have a household RO/DI unit, but I used prime anyways for the advertised ammonia/nitrite nuetralization), and I used Stability every day for a week to try and replinish the bacterial population. I'm not usually a fan of putting stuff like that in the tank, but my LFS strongly suggested it. Plus, with the 150 lbs of liverock, I figured that would also go a long ways to helping minimize the cycle.

[NirvanaFan]

Do you have a picture of the anemone on one of it's bad days? I don't know if I would change anything. If he inflates after the halides go off, I would think about moving him a bit. Maybe farther over, or down away from the halides.

As for the sand causing a mini-cycle. Adding sand will not cause a cycle. Removing the old sand (and the bacteria attached to it) is what would cause the cycle.

I wouldn't use the Prime and Stability anymore. While not optimal, things in our tank can live through small levels of ammonia and nitrite. With 150 pounds of live rock, the bacteria should multiply pretty quickly to replenish the amount lost from the sand.

I wouldn't do a 30% water change either. Your parameters seem pretty good. Do you run carbon at all?


What are you trying to feed the anemone, and how big is the food? Providing small (1/4" pieces) of different seafood might be a good idea. I generally cut up shrimp, squid, scallop, clam, and tuna. The anemone shouldn't really need much supplemental feeding with the lights that you have. You could feed every day, but once every week or two probably is fine if you want to control it's growth.

[congerorama]

Thanks again for the response and suggestions. I do run Kent Marine Reef Carbon in a DIY carbon reactor in the sump. I've already stopped the Prime and Stability, I only used it for 7 days after setting it up in the new home (Prime on first day, then stability for 7 days). I may still do a water change, as it's been two weeks since the move, and I want to keep my nitrates under control. I assume it will be a few months before my DSB gets mature and can help keep my nitrates at/near 0 (?).

I try to feed the anemone pieces of thawed silverside. I cut it up, into about 1/4" to 1/2" 'steaks' from the middle of the silverside. I guess I was feeding him a lot, because I've read that the short, stubby tentacles was a result of the anemone starving, and consuming itself. I was just trying to provide it with as much nourishment as it would take.

I'll try to move it to a different spot in the tank when I get off work today, thanks again to everyone who's taken an interest and the time to respond to offer suggestions!

[congerorama]

I just tested the water (first test after the move), here are the up-to-date parameters:

Temp: 80 F
sg: 1.025
pH: 8.3
Alkalinity: 12 dKH
Calcium: 420
Magnesium: 1280
Nitrates: 5


I'm going to perform a 25 gallon water change tomorrow, also change out the carbon in my reactor (maybe replace with phosban for a while before putting more carbon in).

I was not able to get the anemone off the rock he's on, his foot is firmly attached and nestled into recessions in the rock, I would have hurt him if I persisted. Instead, I rearranged the rock to place the anemone further to the right (off to the side of the nearest MH lamp). I also placed another smaller rock that will provide it shade from the MH, I'll see if the anemone improves over the next couple of weeks.

I've reduced my MH cycle to 3 hours, from 3:00PM to 6:00PM. I'll increase it by an hour every week until I'm back up to the full 8 hour cycle. I'll post another picture tomorrow, both a close up of the anemone, as well as a full tank shot so you can see where the anemone is located relative to the "shade" rock and light fixture.

[Anemone]

Do you have ammonia and nitrite numbers?

Kevin

[congerorama]

anemone: I don't, the ammonia and nitrite tests are part of a different master kit, that I am now out of. In absence of being able to get those numbers, I am assuming there are some as a result of a mini-cycle from the move, and am doing a 25 gallon water change today. It's two weeks since the move, and I am assuming that within a month, the cycle will be over, considering I have all the liverock and I seeded the new sand bed with sand from my setup before the move (plus the use of Prime and Stability, which I'm not really a strong believer in, but you never know). I'll perform a 25 gallon change next week, and the week after to combat the possible presence of some ammonia and/or nitrites, and that should deliver me through the first month after the move.

I agree that knowing specific values for ammonia and nitrites could help diagnose what might be wrong with my nem. I DO have ammonia and nitrite tests in a freshwater master kit for my freshwater tanks, do you know if those tests would work for my saltwater tank as well? (I know they're advertised as freshwater kits, but would using it on saltwater really invalidate the results?) My freshwater kit is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

[bigj11]

and this is why i hate anemones, too much drama!