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View Full Version : Tired of waisting money on "reef safe" ich meds join a lawsuit and get it all back.


EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 12:43 PM
Hello,
I am in the process of a lawsuit with the makers of all those so called reef safe ich meds out there and need others to join in, in order to make this thing affective.... anyone who has invested in these things and losts money....meaning they didnt work and fish/corals died and ich still no gone.... please start keeping track of all your receipts and email me at [email protected] to join in and get your money back.... thank you

EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 01:45 PM
here is what this will take in order to work:
Experts willing to show proof that this product does nothing good and several bad.
several hundred people with hands on experience and money spent...dead fish, corals and so on.
I have contacted an attourney willing to take on the project and will be gathering people to be a part of this. I will keep everyone posted. thank you

ctenophors rule
03/05/2009, 07:40 PM
might i ask, what you plan on getting from this lawsuite?

( i mean this in a completely non acusatory way, i am sure you wouldn't be trying to screw a bunch of aquarist out of money, i just want to know if it will be donated to a good cause, like hboi's biochemical institute or something.

EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 07:49 PM
i wouldnt get anything and neither would anyone esle.....except what they can show with receipts for medications that we all know dont work.....and hopefully put a stop to the "reef safe" meds that dont work and maybe cause them to find one that does!!!

But very good question....I will gain nothing from this and spend tons....
But everyone who has ever waisted time and money will help those in the future to not do the same.
thank you

EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 08:03 PM
To me it seems like another medication scam.....just like medications for human consumption... they make all these meds that dont work, at least not by helping or curing the problem, but work very well at making them money and keeping the consumer purchasing their product. They do just enough to look like they work.....and then a couple days, or weeks later the same problems come right back.....or never stop at all.
The only peolpe who are happy with these meds are the people with not enough knowledge or experience to know that it wasnt the meds that caused the problem to go away. I feel like these people and the next to do the same thing need to be protected from this.

THESE PRODUCTS ARE LITERALLY RIPPING CONSUMERS OFF!!!
LETS PUT A STOP TO THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 08:16 PM
Just like if they made a medication for curing cancer they would lose out on trillions of dollars in tests/visits/treatments and so on....if we had one med. to cure ich in our reef tanks for good they would sell only a fraction of the medication.

EleganceMan
03/05/2009, 08:29 PM
Just to see exactly what i am talking about lets try something:
please post a list of price, quantity, brand of meds, coral, fish lost from this problem.
Here is my one and only time this has and will ever happen,
ICH OUTBREAK,
No Ich by fish vet....three 64oz bottles...$40each
Copperband dead $35
Bi Color Angel dead $35
Maxima Clam dead $90
Deresa Clam dead $65
Green Stag SPS dead $75
Polyp Rock dead $45

Total.... $465

JHemdal
03/06/2009, 07:33 AM
Products that don't work as claimed have been in the aquarium trade as long as I can remember. IMO, things that are sold as "tonics" are pretty much free and clear of any lawsuit.

There is a simple test that I use: does the product list the active ingredient on the label? If not, it ends it RIGHT THERE for me.

People who want to take it further should request an MSDS for any unlabelled product from the company, if they won't comply, then by no means should you put that product in your aquairum.

Don't forget though, that even good products can fail to work, or can be misused, etc.


Jay

Stuart60611
03/06/2009, 09:42 AM
As an attorney who done his fair share of these kinds of cases (in the United States), there are a couple of things to consider. The idea of bringing such a claim crossed my mind several months ago. In doing just some very preliminary investigation, I determined that all of the "reef safe" medications for the treatment of ich do not share the same potential for legal challenge. I think you need to look at the issue on two fronts. First, challenging those medications which claim they work in terms of eliminating the parasite which do not do so. Second, challenging those medications that claim to be reef same which actually kill or injure livestock. With respect to both categories, examination of the packaging and product labels are critical. I think you will find that many of the materials that come with the medication are very carefully worded which may limit or eliminate certain medications from a successful legal challenge. Also, because each medication is sold with different packaging and claims of effectiveness and safety, you will likely run into problems bringing a claim against several different products in the same litigation because the issues with respect to each product are different.

To pursue such a case, I would think it would be most appropriate to bring it on a class action basis which would only require several representative plaintiffs who would serve as good examples of the failures of these medications. The discovery processs could be used to determine all of those throughout the nation who purchased the challenged product. Later in the litigation, notices would be sent out to all such persons giving them the option to participate in the litigation. Also, because many people will have purchased the medication with cash and thereby eliminate any record of who purchased the medication, public notices could be published about the litigation with instructions on how to opt into the litigation.

It should be noted that in cases like this the lawyer generally operates on a contingent fee basis which means the lawyer will be paid with a percentage of the recovery. Generally, it appears that the recovery for each person participating in the litigation will not be very large because of the cost of the medication and/or the cost of the livestock lost which will in my opinion necessitate the case being brought on a class action basis so as to pool all the losses together to make the case financially viable. It should also be noted that the law does not place any value on the emotional harm people suffer from the death of livestock. The law dating back to colonial times treats livestock like chattel or personal property dating back to the times when horses and the like were used as beasts of burdeon and therefore awards no damages for the emotional attachment people have to their animals. As alluded to above, the case will hinge on expert testimony in terms of establishing a scientific basis for the claim. Experts cost an enormous amount of money. Also, the other costs associated with the litigation, such as postage for notices to all class members, deposition fees, etc. are very expensive. As such, I think the out of pocket hard costs for such litigation would likely exceed $50,000.00. Therefore, any attorney willing to take this on will have to be prepared to write such a check to fund the case and hope that he/she gets this sum repaid should the case be successful. Also, a case like this will require a lot of attorney hours which means anyone who takes this case on has to be prepared to spend many hours without being paid and hope to recoup a reasonably hourly rate for his/her effort later should the case be successful. This can be quite a risky proposition for counsel.

erbio
03/14/2009, 01:40 PM
There is much more involved in the process. It takes much more than fury to prove your case - time and money. Gathering information manually is unnecessary and a waste of time. If you're serious about proceeding with this then the discovery process will do all of this for you.

I'm not sure if ich medications can be compared to a cure for cancer. There are several cures for ich. Hypo, copper and more. It's not matter of releasing the "absolute cure" which will kill profits as it is with cancer treatments. In the case of a cancer cure, I agree. Treatment is more profitable than a cure over time.

Hobbyists choose the medications in question to shortcut the process. They eventually learn that there are no shortcuts in shortcuts when it comes to the saltwater hobby.

Ich medications may very well work. You have to take misuse/human error and poor husbandry/neglect into consideration. There are so many other possibilities for loss of livestock in this hobby.

I'm not trying to defend anyone here though, I'm just being realistic.

Oh and well said Stuart60611.

lesleybird
03/14/2009, 03:25 PM
Sour grapes.....It will cost your much more in time and money to prove the case and it is not worth all the time, money and effort involved. It will cost tens of thousands of dollars to prove your case, and any damages awarded in such a case will be very small. You will not get your money back and if you read here or in any other fish site, fish book etc. you would know that these medications are only marginally effective. It is our responsibility to quarenteen our fish, even though it takes extra time and money. Not even most medications in the human realm will guaranty cure. I have used the Kick Ick stuff and found it reduced but did not completely eliminate the ich. It did however give all my fish enough time to build up some resistance to the ich. I used the medication for at least 5 weeks every other day. Yes, most can agree that it does not work well. If you lost money and fish and cannot afford to loose fish then you need a less expensive hobby. No judge will give a rats -ss about your loss of fish. Sorry to be so harsh, but this is what I believe. There is no warranty on the bottle of Kick, and they do not guaranty the lives of your sick fish so it will not stand up well in court. Lesley

erbio
03/25/2009, 11:08 AM
Your animals are dead because of poor husbandry as you display in your thread here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14688860

alleykat81
03/25/2009, 07:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14688918#post14688918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by erbio
Your animals are dead because of poor husbandry as you display in your thread here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14688860

My thougts exactly

chimmike
03/26/2009, 05:17 PM
If you filed this, I'd respond on the defense with a motion to dismiss as a frivolous lawsuit. And then when the motion is granted, I'd file for recovery of my fees and costs, meaning I'd go after you for the thousands of dollars I spent on an attorney.

Not only that, but you'd have to PROVE your tank parameters were PERFECT and that NOTHING else was involved in the ich and that the chemical wasn't working.

Good luck with that, based on your horrific tank.

cdness
03/27/2009, 11:44 AM
The Aquarium industry has very little regulation for products released. Many go through no approval process to prove they do as they say. You could bottle up some purple colored sand and water and make a purple-up competing product and never prove it works and make a small fortune...

Instead of suing the company that made a single product, petition the legislators to change the laws regulating the aquarium industry. That way if laws are enacted to force them to prove the product works the bad products will be forced off the shelf. This way you are not only protecting yourself but the millions of other auarium owners from future bad products instead of just getting money back from one bad company.

graveyardworm
03/27/2009, 04:46 PM
Use common sense and do your research before investing in any product or reef keeping scheme.