Refugium Size Help

[Jason1234]

I have a 75 gal tank. I am building a sump. What is a min for a refugium area. I have a 30 gal sump.

[Phyxius]

There really is no "Min" or "Max" size its really the biggest you have the space or ability to give it. The biggest space you can is usually best as it adds more water volume to the system.

I used a 30g tank as a sump and fuge on my old 90g system and I used about 1/2 of the tank or a little less for the fuge area. Here is a very old pic of it when I first set it up

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/78452000_0002zz__Small_.jpg

[james3370]

from melevsreef.com:

How do I determine the size of each section or compartment?

Leave enough room for the skimmer and pump, by obtaining the ‘footprint’ size of the skimmer. Find out how deeply the skimmer can sit in water, according to the skimmer’s manufacturer.

The refugium needs to be large enough to grow macro algae and hold some live sand, but it doesn’t need to be huge.

The return section needs to be big if possible. This section varies due to evaporation, so the more water volume it holds, the longer you can be away from your tank and still have enough water to avoid burning up the return pump



this is the faq page i got the above from:

http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html

in a few pms to mark, he told me he recommends 10-15% of the tank volume to be a good volume for the refugium....so for a 75, that'd be about 7-12 gallons

[Phyxius]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667413#post14667413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3370
from melevsreef.com:

How do I determine the size of each section or compartment?

Leave enough room for the skimmer and pump, by obtaining the ‘footprint’ size of the skimmer. Find out how deeply the skimmer can sit in water, according to the skimmer’s manufacturer.

The refugium needs to be large enough to grow macro algae and hold some live sand, but it doesn’t need to be huge.

The return section needs to be big if possible. This section varies due to evaporation, so the more water volume it holds, the longer you can be away from your tank and still have enough water to avoid burning up the return pump



this is the faq page i got the above from:

http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html

in a few pms to mark, he told me he recommends 10-15% of the tank volume to be a good volume for the refugium


Melevs got the great info and forgot about his link...Its the great thing about external skimmers you can keep them out of the sump and makes for more space for the other sections.

[Jason1234]

Thanks guys for your help.. I am working on this right now. I found out the MX extreem 160 footprint is 8 X10 so my skimm section is 10h X 11.3/4W X 9L 4.5 gal... Return is 10h X 113/4W X 11.5L.. 6 gal with a mag 18 in there.. So I have been fighting with the refuge area..with that setup the refuge would be 12H X 11 3/4W X 12L 7.5 gal I would like to shrink that area to 6 gal so my return is bigger. what do you guys think...Thank again for your help..I will lose about a gal a day with my open setup...

[Jason1234]

I am building a auto top off FYI for this loss of water each day

[Phyxius]

Are you going to be running an Auto top off? It will help with the constant water level drops. As shown in the pic I had a small area for a Mag 9.5 and then a Eheim 1262. Never had a water level issue but used a ATO,

A Mag 18 is WAY overkill for a tank that size. I used a mag 9.5 and then switched to a 1262 and also feed a chiller off it as well as media reactor and still had to T off some flow back through the sump. A mag 18 will push more water than your overflows can handle unless you have a sump located far away from the tank and not in the stand and have lots of head loss to work against. It will also push too much flow through the sump and fuge to make it worthwhile

[Jason1234]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667516#post14667516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Phyxius
Are you going to be running an Auto top off? It will help with the constant water level drops. As senn in the pic I had a small area for a Mag 9.5 and then a Eheim 1262. Never had a water level issue but used a ATO,

A Mag 18 is WAY overkill for a tank that size. I used a mag 9.5 and then switched to a 1262 and also feed a chiller off it as well as media reactor and still had to T off some flow back through the sump. A mag 18 will push more water than your overflows can handle unless you have a sump located far away from the tank and not in the stand and have lots of head loss to work against.


My sump is in a small area in my basement.. I used the calc from this site to help me with the calc. The calc said with that pump I will get 522 GPH to my tank

[Phyxius]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667529#post14667529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jason1234
My sump is in a small area in my basement.. I used the calc from this site to help me with the calc. The calc said with that pump I will get 522 GPH to my tank

That makes sense then, was just checking :) You will also need to take into account all the water in the lines that will back flow into the sump in the event of a power loss. It will throw another choice as far as baffle heights in the mix as to water levels. If you are pumping up to another area of the house where the tank is at there will be a back flow of a few gallons into your sump when powers out. You will need to make sure you account for this or you will overflow the sump every time...

[james3370]

my opinion is that if the ato can keep up w/ the evaporation, i'd rather have a slightly larger refugium....but it can be a balancing act between having a decent amount of volume for the refugium to do it's job, yet not having the return chamber too small & risk the chance of it running dry

.....also don't forget to factor in enough free space for drainage from the display in the event of a power outage or pump failure

[Jason1234]

So do you think taking away from the return area so my refuge is bigger is a good idea?

[james3370]

just saw that it is in the basement, so you don't have the constraint of it having to fit in the stand.......

so i think you are gonna need a bigger tank than a 30....in a power outage or pump failure, not only are you gonna need to hold any drainage from the main tank but what is in the pipe from the basement up to the tank...& that could be a good bit of water :eek2:

[Jason1234]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667551#post14667551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3370
my opinion is that if the ato can keep up w/ the evaporation, i'd rather have a slightly larger refugium....but it can be a balancing act between having a decent amount of volume for the refugium to do it's job, yet not having the return chamber too small & risk the chance of it running dry

.....also don't forget to factor in enough free space for drainage from the display in the event of a power outage or pump failure

My sump is a 30 gal glass and from calc gal per area in the sump I get only around 20 gal of water. So I think if the pumps turns off I should not get over 10 from my Magaflow overflow

[james3370]

can you plumb the skimmer externally & benefit from that extra space?? then that chamber could be just big enough for the overflow input, & bulkheads to & from the skimmer...maybe 2-3"

[Jason1234]

I could however I alread installed that part of the system with glass baffles because I new the MS extreem was going in there.

[james3370]

ok, another idea.....buy a small tank (say 10-20g) to use as the refugium. sit it beside the sump on a platform so it sits about 4" above the sump. put a bulkhead in the top edge of it so it overflows into the return side of the sump tank. use the tank you have for skimmer & return sections only, so the return chamber would be plenty large enough

[Phyxius]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667718#post14667718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3370
ok, another idea.....buy a small tank (say 10-20g) to use as the refugium. sit it beside the sump on a platform so it sits about 4" above the sump. put a bulkhead in the top edge of it so it overflows into the return side of the sump tank. use the tank you have for skimmer & return sections only, so the return chamber would be plenty large enough

That sounds like a good idea. Then spilt the flow coming from your return and have some going through this new refuge and then the rest directly to the sump. It would give you a nice fuge and more safety margin when the powers off against a overflow using the 30g as the full sump. The fuge would only hold x amount and the dump to the sump area anyways. It would also give you more pump chamber volume area to boot as well as room for heaters, probes and etc....

[james3370]

correct......

overflow from main tank into a t-fitting. one side of the t goes to the sump. the other side has a ball valve adjusted to only allow about 25% of the overflow to go to the refugium

[Jason1234]

That does sound like a good Ideal.. I gess i thought my 10 gals (30 gal but 20 used) was plenty for if the power goes off. But this would give me a bigger refuge.. Thanks

[redfishsc]

I've always preferred a refugium that was a minimum of 15% of the tank size, preferably as big as 30% practically speaking.

If, for example, I had a 100g tank, I think a 20 or 30g refugium, lighted and plumbed but set up as a separate display tank would look sweet. I don't have the room for such a thing in my apartment, but the fuge is always one of the more interesting things IMO.

Especially when it gets full of green and red algae growth and pods.

[Jason1234]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14667853#post14667853 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redfishsc
I've always preferred a refugium that was a minimum of 15% of the tank size, preferably as big as 30% practically speaking.

If, for example, I had a 100g tank, I think a 20 or 30g refugium, lighted and plumbed but set up as a separate display tank would look sweet. I don't have the room for such a thing in my apartment, but the fuge is always one of the more interesting things IMO.

Especially when it gets full of green and red algae growth and pods.

With my current plans it would be 10%

[pjf]

Here is a 29-gallon sump where the refugium occupies about 20% of the volume. The sump supports a 75-gallon main aquarium.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/93304Refugium_07Sept2008.JPG
The water flows under the first baffle to suspend the chaetomorpha against the light. The flow props a mesh tank divider (Lee's or Penn-Plax) against the 2nd glass baffle. The mesh keeps the chaetomorpha from creeping into the return compartment.

The chaetomorpha acts as a mechanical filter, picks up debris, and must be rinsed periodically. Note that the bare bottom is quite clean. The growth and regular pruning of the chaetomorpha is an indicator of its effectiveness in natural nitrate reduction.