Frustrated newbie

[Johnny U]

Can I just vent! I don't know if I'm more frustrated with myself because I jump into things without thinking them through or because I'm severely OCD and impatient and want my tank imaculate and complete NOW!

I cycled my tank with a coctail shrimp. I know. That's what I was told to do and I won't do it that way again, but all my fish survived. My amonia and nitrates are 0, my cycle is done, and my two clowns and damsels have ran the gauntlet and survived. I wish I'd known better than put them through that but at least they made it.

I love my tank even in its rediculous infancy but, MAN! I envy the newbs that did their homework before jumping into the hobby.

I feel like I've spent a fortune but have only scratched the surface. This sure would be easier if I lived in Socal or Jersey with most everyone else on here so I could catch a break on local pick-ups. Good night! I mights as well line my tank with gold bouyon rather than buy live rock from a LFS.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... I can go on. Lights... ouch! Skimmers, sumps, coral, etc, etc, etc...

But I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Every one of you have to deal (or have dealt) with the same issues as I am. I just had a discouraging moment here and wanted to let off some steam. :o I figured you'd understand. :(

One of our LFS got some LR in (Tichoni? I'm not sure how to spell it) but wants $5.95 a pound. That may be a good deal, I don't know. But after using all my fingers and toes several times over I concluded that I'd have to give plasma 2ce a week for 3 months to buy enough for my tank! Crap!

a-hem... excuse me. I'll shut up now.

[Michael]

well the hobby can be frustrating johnny, very frustrating, i try to ensure that all these annoying little things are part of the enjoyment of setting up, you made a mistake with the cycle and learned a lesson, so in a way think positive there, also rock is £13-18 a kilo here depending on quality, and i dont live in socal or jersey, a little island called england and still manage to cope, chin up buddy, and start to enjoy the hobby, the best of luck:)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14731764#post14731764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Johnny U
Can I just vent! I don't know if I'm more frustrated with myself because I jump into things without thinking them through or because I'm severely OCD and impatient and want my tank imaculate and complete NOW!

I cycled my tank with a coctail shrimp. I know. That's what I was told to do and I won't do it that way again, but all my fish survived. My amonia and nitrates are 0, my cycle is done, and my two clowns and damsels have ran the gauntlet and survived. I wish I'd known better than put them through that but at least they made it.

I love my tank even in its rediculous infancy but, MAN! I envy the newbs that did their homework before jumping into the hobby.

I feel like I've spent a fortune but have only scratched the surface. This sure would be easier if I lived in Socal or Jersey with most everyone else on here so I could catch a break on local pick-ups. Good night! I mights as well line my tank with gold bouyon rather than buy live rock from a LFS.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... I can go on. Lights... ouch! Skimmers, sumps, coral, etc, etc, etc...

But I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Every one of you have to deal (or have dealt) with the same issues as I am. I just had a discouraging moment here and wanted to let off some steam. :o I figured you'd understand. :(

One of our LFS got some LR in (Tichoni? I'm not sure how to spell it) but wants $5.95 a pound. That may be a good deal, I don't know. But after using all my fingers and toes several times over I concluded that I'd have to give plasma 2ce a week for 3 months to buy enough for my tank! Crap!

a-hem... excuse me. I'll shut up now.

how can we help you:D

[Fizz71]

You tried to cycle with shrimp when you already had fish in there? I hope you slapped the person that told you to do that!!!! :)

And vent away..this hobby can be alot. And it is that...A HOBBY...it's not just keeping a tank to look at, you actually have to treat it like a hobby and understand that it will take some of your time DAILY...and that there is ALWAYS more to learn. Sounds like you got the idea...I'm just sayin' :)

Are you near either of these?
http://www.theseas.org/
http://www.seasl.org/

Clubs are a great way to meet local reefers. Also a great source of Live Rock from people getting out of the hobby.

You need to be careful with LR...if you get anything un-cured you're likely to kill your fish. You really should get all the LR up and running before you start adding any real livestock. It's tough to wait..I know..but it's tougher to watch them die. :(

Good Luck

[Delr3]

I feel your pain. I bought a 2 cheap tanks on craigslist one is 125g which is my dt and the other is a 55g which I made my sump/fug. I read a lot on this web site and bought books to fill in other info. My tank is cycle and I have hair algae and ditoms (not sure if i spelled that correclty) all over the place, but that gives me something to do. When I come home I scrap or rub off the algae and thats not fun but it gives me some one on one time with my tank. The part that got me was dealing with online sellers screwing me over and over. They would send me the wrong product then send me out other stuff and then to the wrong address. Over all online sellers put me about 2 months behind my schedule of starting my tank. I started my tank for something peaceful that I could enjoy, and at first it was everything but that. I guess the moral of the story is that it is all one big learning experience and thats what makes it more whorth while to us when we are all done and we can show off our fish or coral to our friends.

[maxheadroom]

live rock around here costs $10.99 + Per/LB

[lkc]

Live Rock in Orlando costs between $3.99 and $7.99 depending on what kind you get. For the $7.99, you get all kinds of baby gorilla crabs and mantis shrimps and they grow up and kill all your fish and hermits, snails and you can't get them out because they're too smart and if you take the rock out into the back yard and smash it on the patio, you kill all the good stuff..........What are you complaining for anyway? We all have our challenges and in the end, we like it.

[Johnny U]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14732020#post14732020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lkc
We all have our challenges and in the end, we like it.

That's what I'm banking on. :lol:

And, of course you're right, I do like it. I'm sure we all have our frustrated moments.

I did find a local club. I'm pretty close to KC. Thanks for that suggestion, Fizz.

Thanks to everyone else for their temperance too! :o

$11 bucks a pound? Yikes. Okay, you win. I won't complain anymore.

[tdp22]

Lesson #1 spend countless hours on RC before doing anything and always consult the experts!!! Have fun!

[Johnny U]

Um, yeah. I got that too. :lol:

[Fluid]

Johnny,

I live in KC and you actually have some decent LFS's near you. I think it's called Brothers? Anyway, starting out with a 125G is going to be hard. My best advice is just to keep working on it.

You don't have to have all the best stuff initially, just keep building.

Online Live Rock merchants are pretty cheap when you buy bulk.

[fender4string]

You might not have done your homework first but at least you're trying to do the best you can. This is an awesome website with a lot of really helpful people. I just set up my first tank back in December and I guarantee I couldn't have done it without the help of this site.

You're in the right place man :).

[reefloverd1]

don't worry JohnnyU, RC takes good care of us newbies, I love these ppl on here they are chalk full of knowledge and kindness.

[reefloverd1]

as for online merchants, Premium Aquatics have never done me wrong, I'm real happy with them. Then there is Marine and reef, drs foster&smith, bluezoo aquatics they are all good. IME Good luck.

[PRDubois]

If you have not read all the Waterkeepers stickies in the beginning of this section then STOP and read them all now!!

Did anyone tell you to use Shrimp with Fish in the tank?

Cycling with Shrimp is a good idea. It speeds up the process and lets you see the spikes. It does work to Cycle a tank

Cycling with Fish or adding Fish to a tank that is not at least 3 weeks old is a bad Idea.

Blame the person who told you to use live fish to cycle. Might have to look in the mirror.

As far as $5.99 for live rock. That is a good price. Most places here want $7.99 to $12.99 a lb

You can save money by using manmade or base rock and add live rock to it.

If you look on Craigs list you can sometimes find good deals on Live Rock.

Last thing is:
Rock should have been added at the start. Adding LR can and probally will cause a cycle when you add it due to any die off on the rock.

[Paul B]

I'm severely OCD and impatient and want my tank imaculate and complete NOW!

Johnnie my man. Take it easy. It gets much better.
Don't worry about cycling with a shrimp, I think I did also.
A shrimp will work fine as will a fish, hamburger, or Water buffalo.
Anything that rots works.
It will also get much cheaper. The rock is expensive but you don't need all of it right now.
I still want my tank finished and immaculate but it has been almost 40 years and I am still working on it :D
Truth is, it is never done, thats what makes this a hobby.
Otherwise we would be stamp collecting.
Don't think of it as something you have to finish, think of it as something you do as a pasttime, a never ending fun thing.
You will not be tested on it.
If that were the case, I would have failed many years ago. I have had leaks, hair algae, cyano, ich, overheating, underheating,
and 24 sea urchins all spawning at the same time severly pollutting the water and overflowing the five gallon efluent bucket.
After you buy the equipment it gets much cheaper. Except for electricity and an animal from time to time, there is not much expenses. I rarely spend anything and the fiood is cheap.
Just enjoy it for what it is, a hobby. Not important, no one needs it, it is just something to do that will be fun.
To keep something alive and healthy is very rewarding.
Take care.
Paul

[Johnny U]

Thanks guys. After speaking with my accountant, er... I mean my wife, I think we're going to buy just a little live rock from the lfs, seperate it in a QT for a week or so and then just put it in the tank and let it seed the 40 lbs of base rock we have.

How long do you think it will take for the base rock to seed and be a flourishing part of the system?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand it I will be okay with a NO light, 3 damsels, 2 clowns and 45 pounds of LR without a skimmer, sump, etc... for right now. That is not a significant bioload in a 125 gallon tank is it?

Of course I will eventually buy those things and a better light. I hope to have a beautiful reef tank within a year or two. But for NOW with 5 small fish they aren't necessary, are they?

As long as I understand everything then I could cycle 5-10 pounds at a time and slowly add it to the tank over a long period of time. Again let me know if I'm wrong.

Thanks again!

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14732681#post14732681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Johnny U
Thanks guys. After speaking with my accountant, er... I mean my wife, I think we're going to buy just a little live rock from the lfs, seperate it in a QT for a week or so and then just put it in the tank and let it seed the 40 lbs of base rock we have.

How long do you think it will take for the base rock to seed and be a flourishing part of the system?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand it I will be okay with a NO light, 3 damsels, 2 clowns and 45 pounds of LR without a skimmer, sump, etc... for right now. That is not a significant bioload in a 125 gallon tank is it?

Of course I will eventually buy those things and a better light. I hope to have a beautiful reef tank within a year or two. But for NOW with 5 small fish they aren't necessary, are they?

As long as I understand everything then I could cycle 5-10 pounds at a time and slowly add it to the tank over a long period of time. Again let me know if I'm wrong.

Thanks again!

As suggestion remove the fish to the quarantine tank and add the live rock to the tank. Live rock takes about 3-5 weeks to cure and cycle the bacteria in numbers capable of supporting the bioload of a fish.
Notice I said "a" fish;) At the point were you are getting zero nitrates and ammonia when you test your cycling is done.
At that point I would add one fish one week at a time back to the tank.

One of the reasons for this advise is that base rock can take up to three months to support or cycle enough bacteria compared to 3-5 weeks for live rock.
Adding the live rock now without the fish will give allow your tank to cycle properly and it will also help seed the base rock.

You made a mistake initially--big deal--we all do---but the key here is you can rectify your mistake by cycling your tank the correct way.---and you didn't lose any fish.
:smokin:

[KarlBob]

Three damsels and two clowns should be just fine in a 125 gallon tank. More live rock would be better, but your current fish don't need 125-190 lbs of live rock right away. On the other hand, if you start visiting the LFS on a regular basis, and adding a neat fishy to your tank each time, then you can get in trouble fast.

I think it would be interesting to have an automated map showing where recently active RC subscribers are located. I'd rather see the upcoming search improvements first, of course, but eventually it would be cool to see what states are most active at any given time.

Adding live rock to the tank in 5 to 10 pound increments sounds reasonable (and affordable) to me, especially if you cycle the rock in a seperate container before adding it to the tank.

People getting out of the hobby are indeed a great resource for cheap(er) live rock. It's always sad to see someone go, of course, but turnover is a part of any hobby.

[tspors]

Hey Johnny U,
Here are some numbers for you. It will cost any of us between $35 - $50 per gallon to set up and maintain. So you have a 125g tank? If you haven't spent 5 - 6 grand your about to if you want a successful system (hobby). Good Luck my friend.

[thecoralreefer]

Hey Paul B I collect stamps and there is always another one out there !!!! But you are right it is a hobby thats never done.
welcome johnny u! If you want some cool rocks you can make your own from aragonite and concrete. Shape it the way you like it, let it cure for 2 mnths and BINGO

[MartinEric]

I feel for ya, I'm in the middle of Missouri and we only have one ok saltwater store near here. I use mail order for items I cannot get here local (which is a lot). Hang in there, keep learning because it really is a fun hobby.

[otrlynn]

I'd vote for leaving the fiish in the tank, because the live rock you have in there has apparently cyled and your fish are okay. The beneficial bacteria in the rock should continue to take care of the ammonia produced by the fiish. However what is critical is that the amount of waste (read ammonia) created by the fiish does not exceed the capacity of the bacteria in the rock. So do not add more fish until you are able to add more cured live rock. Also, since your tank is new--keep testing the water. A little nitrate is not really a problem but almost any amount of ammonia is. If you start detecting ammonia, increase the frequency or quantity of water changes. As noted above, it usually takes 4-5 weeks for the rock to cure in separate container or tank (you can use a rubbermaid tub) with a powerhead and a heater. Do a search for curing live rock, or perhaps some kind person will jump in here with a link. Good luck and keep reading.

[Johnny U]

Happy April Fool's day! :lol: How long did it take to figure out that the site had replaced words in our posts? That's funny!

I read in one of my posts that I still needed to buy a "x-mas tree stand" for my tank and thought to myself, "Why in the heck would I say that?" I thought I might have missed it when a word was autocorrected that I'd misspelled or something. But #1 our posts don't have an autocorrect function and #2 what in the word could I possibly type where it would default to THAT?! :) I'm a little slow...

Anyway, thanks for the posts guys. Everyone on RC has been awesome. I appreciate the advice.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14734449#post14734449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thelawn gnomereefer
Hey Paul B I collect stamps and there is always another one out there !!!! But you are right it is a hobby thats never done.
welcome johnny u! If you want some cool rocks you can make your own from aragonite and concrete. Shape it the way you like it, let it cure for 2 mnths and BINGO

I collected baseball cards before my reef fetish---maybe someone wants to by 15,000 dollars worth of cards so I can get a new tank:lol: :rollface: :lol:

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14736907#post14736907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Johnny U
Happy April Fool's day! :lol: How long did it take to figure out that the site had replaced words in our posts? That's funny!

I read in one of my posts that I still needed to buy a "x-mas tree stand" for my tank and thought to myself, "Why in the heck would I say that?" I thought I might have missed it when a word was autocorrected that I'd misspelled or something. But #1 our posts don't have an autocorrect function and #2 what in the word could I possibly type where it would default to THAT?! :) I'm a little slow...

Anyway, thanks for the posts guys. Everyone on RC has been awesome. I appreciate the advice.

the jokes on them if they can't change it back:lol:

actually I am amazed that there is someone else on RC with a sense of humour other then Water Keeper.:rolleyes:

[Paul B]

I think it's the computer worm

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14737352#post14737352 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I think it's the computer worm

are they good for the reef?

[Dweezle]

You're not alone man. I started with a OLD used setup and a 4 foot stack of 10+year old books, ...oh and no internet. Spent a year doing things the hard/dumb/expensive way. Got internet, and after my first month here on RC, had my tank lined out and running right. This site is such a great resource! Now, if I could just get back all the money I've wasted doing things the hard/dumb/expensive way......I'd have a really nice tank :( It gets better, but always a challenge: Thats what makes it a nice hobby. My advice is to read, read, read before you buy anything. The more you know, the less money you'll waste.

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14737256#post14737256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I collected baseball cards before my reef fetish---maybe someone wants to by 15,000 dollars worth of cards so I can get a new tank:lol: :rollface: :lol:

I used to smoke crack before I started keeping reef tanks. I think the crack habit was cheaper.

[davewbush]

Mmmmmmm, crack.