View Full Version : Your Opinion
Was wondering what your thoughts on Dr. Rons article concerning artificial sea water.What salt mix did you use in your green house? if it was IO would you consider changing to Crystal Sea Bio marinemix on his findings?
03/08/2003, 01:22 PM
Hi Loui :)
It might not be my place to post this, but it is floating around Reef Central....
"I have read the report Dr Ron has put forth and am very sorry to see it. This really is an enormous can of worms... but in short, of all the things that Dr Ron is an expert in... chemistry does not seem to be one of them. I say that in all seriousness and with all do respect for the man's considerable and appreciated (certainly by me) contributions to the hobby. But he still is not a chemist... and several highly regarded chemists that I trust and respect have riddled his data as unreliable. I myself, am no more qualified to conduct the experiments to confirm or deny the reports. Frankly, though... I think it is complete bunk. If you have the time to browse through the WWM archives you will see replies made in response to this subject. The gist of it, though, is that synthetic sea salts have been time-tested: period. We have fish and invertebrates on record over 30 years old in the mix... and I'm not talking just hardy fishes and corals either (ocellaris clowns at 32 years old!)... Blue faced and Navarchus angels over 20 years in France... numerous German aquarists with 15-20 year old reefs producing tons of coral. The proof is in the pudding as far as I'm concerned. I personally like Tropic Marin if I'm spending someone elses money ... or Instant Ocean or Omega for the best value and quality without paying too much. Instant Oceans quality control has been the industry standard for 30 years. Best regards, Anthony"
Forgive me Anthony if you did not want me to post this!
03/08/2003, 03:38 PM
Tippytoex, Thank you my friend :)
Indeed... yes, this subject has been the topic of too much discussion. Really bunk IMO.
Some brands of sea mix over the years have garnered a poor reputation among commercial professionals and aquarium industry professionals. There are brands that I personally would not take for free based on what I think can fairly be called extensive use of these products. There are industry people, like myself, that buy and use sea salt by the 8,000 gall mix pallets! I cannot even begin to guess how much salt I have been through in a decade.
I will say that I am not at all partial to crystal sea mix from a history with it. I would pass or wait for Tropic Marin or IO anyday. Since Tom Frakes (the man that formulated IO decades ago) has endeavored to support Omega brand, I have tried it, liked it and am willing to use or exchange it freely with the above-mentioned. FWIW. Just one man's opinion :P
Best regards to all :)
03/14/2003, 11:24 AM
I would pass or wait for Tropic Marin or IO anyday.
Sorry pal, but I do not understand what you are saying...
does this mean you would prefer TM or IO anyday?
03/14/2003, 12:08 PM
No worries, John :)
You are correct, my friend...
"I will say that I am not at all partial to crystal sea mix from a [long] history with it. I would pass or wait for Tropic Marin or IO anyday."
The sea salt issue and all of its baggage has never been an issue for me. I'm a good and conscientious aquarist... I QT all of my livestock for a full isolation period, I feed them well, conduct frequent (weekly or better) partial water changes, have excellent and well-attended other nutrient export mechanisms, etc. I simply don't have "mystery" problems through the years that I care to ascribe to sea salt brands, armpit hair... or the staggering amount of garlic on my breath.
As a consumer I look for QC, reliability and time-tested history. We get that from IO and a couple other of the currently roasted brands. I have made a handsome living using it too (tens of thousands of gallons of IO through my coral farming greenhouse in a decade) and enjoyed it as an aquarist. And I have never recieved a single free grain of salt/sample from them (no other implications here on other folk either... just my state). It is what is is... a good and reliable sea salt (IO).
Now that Tom Frakes has refined his personal formula and is with Omega... I will be trying it and may very well exchange my use of IO freely with it or replace it altogther.
If I ever give up hope on being handsome and become rich instead, I will use Tropic Marin faithfully :p
Better yet, I will get my hands on that crazy expensive sea salt that Tetra makes for the Japanese market.
As far as Crytal Sea... isn't there anybody that remembers when this stuff was "Forty Fathoms"?!?!?!? The very name struck fear in the hearts of aquarists. Wow... Some of the old salty dogs need to speak up and remind the new folks about the weak history of this entire product/brand line. How about those events of water changes where all of the snails/mollusks and echinos/starfish are stunned for days or even dead afterwards? Anybody?
Better yet... how about remembering the adage that "Good things are seldom cheap, and cheap things are seldom good." :D
Again... just one man's opinion :)
Kind regards John/to all...
03/20/2003, 02:03 PM
I remember trying forty fathoms...briefly.
I BELIEVE it was rubbish then and if it's made by the same people
it's probably rubbish today. IE I wouldn't use it to kill slugs in my backyard little alone raise corals in it. Which was why the Dr. Ron Salt Study almost knocked me over flat. I had 2 other hunches on outcome and the newly labeled forty fathoms horse was not among the favorites.
Of course now that the Tyler Blvd Facility in Mentor Ohio (7 miles from my house) mixes salt mixes for 4 of the now many available sea salt brands according to their individual salt requirements...I am wondering really how much difference there is between any of them. An aquaintence of mine worked there for the IO folks for a few months and listed off the names of the companies of supposed individually produced sea salts all mixed and bagged or bucketed at the Instant Ocean Tyler Blvd Facility in Mentor Ohio.
This might get ya thinking. I will never purchase another product from Kent Marine again. Who know's where the stuff is being sub'd out from? I want to know who makes it...where it comes from etc. If it's a sub'd purchase product...how do I really know that the quality that I am going for is really there? Crap shoot? I think not. You sub out your chemicals and or products...then you won't get my dollar if I know about it. But not to worry...I have found replacement products for those Kent products I used to purchase...maybe even better quality...but at least I know or believe that it's made by the company of whom the sticker on the product says it is.
BTW. I've used IO for most of the 12 plus years I have been in the hobby and if the other companies have to go to IO to have their salt mixed and bagged then it might mean that IO actually knows how to do it properly and more economically in the first place.
Is it the best...who knows? But I didn't give up and turn the tanks into discus or cichild tanks so something must be working out ok.
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