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Patrick12
04/11/2009, 07:43 PM
Just wanted to make you guys aware that yesterday I went to ACO and of course Eiko (not sure of the spelling) is one of the nicest humans ever. He lets you take saltwater free from his troughs, which are continually fed by an underground well he has drilled about 30 meters below the facility. I always like to check the salinity of the water before I use it and I did so with my refractometer......I got 30ppt. All of the water I have ever collected from the ocean around here is 37-38ppt so I thought that a bit strange. So, I tested the Ca++ and it was 350-360 mg/L. My summation of all this is that the well is likely diluted a bit from rain....which we have had of late. So, unless you really like to supplement, you might ought to consider the timing of getting water from the well. Not sure if anyone else has ever bothered to test the ACO water at other times.

Just thought I would share.

james37128
04/11/2009, 08:56 PM
I just visited the facility 2 days ago and through a lot of translation with my Japanese wife I learned a bit. He said his well water is always around 31 ppt. I was a bit surprised they don't supplement the water at all to bring it up a bit, but with their simple system that may complex it a bit too much. It's funny, his answer to just about everything was "more well water." Anytime something goes out of whack they just open the well taps all the way until the problem clears. The reason their water salinity is lower is the further from the shoreline the well is the more freshwater dilutes the seawater. I probably wouldn't use the water there unless I had a refugium setup, he told me the water is high in silicates. Which is probably the reason they have a lot of algae growing in their system.

Patrick12
04/12/2009, 07:17 AM
The salinity is certainly not too far off, but the Ca and Mg and I would guess the trace elements that one would do a WC to restore are likely on the low side as well. For fish, it is certainly no bad at all. He has some awesome fish in stock right now. There are several with crypt, but I QT and treat anyway.

2t2_crash
04/12/2009, 06:02 PM
crypt?

I use their wellwater exclusively for my tank and intentionally fill more than I pull out of my tank so as to help increase my salinity.. though Luis will tell yah my tank skills are definitely in Beginner Status... even though I have had it going for dang near two years.

Patrick12
04/13/2009, 12:34 AM
Crypt = Cryptocaryon irritans......what many call "ich".

While you may be increasing the salinity in the manner cited, the Ca and Mg are not going to increase with that method and you will need to supplement them in order to keep your calcification process optimal. I think the only reason Eiko gets away with it is because his levels are stable in that he has an eternal fountain flowing in and out of the troughs. In a closed system such as ours, Ca and Mg only go down from what we put in and would likely not do as well with suboptimal levels of these vital elements.

bethnjeremy
04/13/2009, 03:49 PM
everyone that has any coral lps/sps should dose Ca, KH, Mg, and trace. Also I have noticed a big difference since I have also dosed potassium. alot of the blues and purples and can't forget the pinks and reds! They all have colored up well. I keep my parameters to the best i can to NSW. I try to run a ULNS and has worked magnificent! If anyone out there is growing SPS/ LPS I would look at the Zeo system. It has worked for me so very well! Also I don't use water from the ocean since most of us just go to the beach where all the nasty water is at. I make my own now and have had great results with the Reefers Best Coral Salt.

Sango-chu
04/14/2009, 11:21 PM
how much do you pay for the Reefers Best Coral Salt once it all said and done; I mean with shipping and all?

bethnjeremy
04/15/2009, 06:01 AM
from a hundred to one twenty i think, somehwere in there. It only makes 150 gal of saltwater at 1.023 sg approximately. Good stuff though just take a look at my tank, I stand by it.

bethnjeremy
04/15/2009, 06:01 AM
from a hundred to one twenty i think, somehwere in there. It only makes 150 gal of saltwater at 1.023 sg approximately. Good stuff though just take a look at my tank, I stand by it.

Patrick12
04/15/2009, 09:56 AM
If you want some good chemistry and want to double the amount made for about the same cost, I recommend mixing Oceanic and either Reef Crystals or regular Tropic Marin. I really like the results and get great chemistry.....especially with the Oceanic TM mix. I have supplanted the Tm here because I cannot get it here as cheap as the RC.

Sango-chu
04/15/2009, 09:45 PM
Jermey, I'll stand by your tank as well ~ Inside too! if you gave me a chance...that's a TOTM in the making...

bethnjeremy
04/16/2009, 02:59 PM
Thanks Louis, well let me know if you need a hand. Also if you are available Saturday morning I was hoping to swing by and grab some tools so I can get this frame made. I really just need the rivets and rivet gun, I think.

Sango-chu
04/16/2009, 05:24 PM
Sure, no prob.

Sango-chu
04/21/2009, 10:42 PM
Just got an e-mail from Mr. Taira-san, director of ACO after he logged on as a guest and seems he's taken some offense to the defamation of his Company by the author of this article. He has proven research from Mr. Julian Sprung and Mr. Charles Delbeek, both renouned reef specialist in their own right

The Reef Aquarium by Sprung/Delbeek (//http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1883693128/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)

Just as a side note. I went to ACO and asked him about this specifically and he pulled out original cited research work and papers from his two-week long internship with with Mr. C. Delbeek at the Wakiki Aquarium in Ohua, which by the way, was using and endorsed well water in their established tank.

Here's what he wrote to me:


Our company was initially established based on the research outcome of a joint project between Okinawan Goverment, industry and academics.and Waikiki Aquarium know-how too...

Aqua Culture Okinawa (http://www.aquaculture.co.jp/en/message2.html)

thank you
Eiko

He's taken care of me for many years now and I for one, endorse what he does. But of course, this is my right and opinion. Still, he's really the only one that a reefer can turn to and not expect to get robbed or B.S.'ed. He currently has tanks dedicated by the Japan govt for reef research and he's never in a hurry to see one of us go under so we can jump on their equipment before the heaters metal halides go cold. Again, my opinion, and I don't purposefully attempt to offend.

Luis

tylersdad
04/22/2009, 06:01 AM
I will co-sign with Luis, I use ACOs water as well and hate to see that Mr. Taira-san was offended. I am sure that was not the intent of this thread and hope he understands. If anyone here does not know Mr. Taira-san I would encourage you to go meet and learn from him. Maybe sometime we can make a group trip down there and someone on the forum that speaks Japanese can facilitate our communication. Just a thought.

james37128
04/22/2009, 06:40 AM
Not good... The intent was informational only, nothing negative towards ACO. The thread was meant for people who keep there salinity at 35 ppm and use ACO's water for water changes. Those people will need to supplement.

My comment about not using the water because Taira San said the silicates are higher than normal, could be possibly taken wrong. That was me personally because I have enough trouble as it is keeping nitrates, and phosphates down, I don't want to add more "nuisance algae food" (the silicates.) It was also a "Problem solver" for anyone reading this thread who uses ACO's well water and has an algae problem. That person now knows one more part of the equation for their algae problem, since we USUALLY don't test for silicates.

Patrick12
04/22/2009, 07:26 AM
Wow is all I can say. If someone can possibly point out how I insulted anyone, I would greatly appreciate it. All I was doing was letting you guys know that the Ca++ level I tested was lower than what is typically desired. I think it was due to the fact that it had just rained a lot and diluted the water. If one were to read the post again, I did not advocate for not using ACO's water.....I merely offered an opinion as to maybe time when you get it. I certainly did not and never would say anything against Mr. Taira-san......he is a wonderful person and I have no reason of any kind to say anything against him. My point is merely that if WE add water that is that low in Ca, then the level in OUR systems is only going to go down from there and major supplementation would be needed. For ACO, it is not a problem because the troughs are continually fed and even if Ca is used by the corals, there is a constant supply of well water to keep the levels at the 360 ppm or whatever it may be. If WE in a closed system have our corals use Ca, then the level will drop from the 360ppm and it will definitely need to be replenished. That and only that was my point. I know testing sometimes goes undone for an asundry of reasons......and if one is not testing and supplementing accordingly....I was merely offering something to watch for.

Mr. Taira-san please know that I was not saying anything against you, your water, or your facility. It is a wonderful setup and I did not in any way mean to imply that you do not know what you are doing. I think you are doing a terrific job! I was only offering helpful advice and suggesting the need for closed system aquarium owners to supplement as they do not have a well to bath their aquariums and keep the mineral level constant as you do.

Sango-chu
04/22/2009, 07:07 PM
Gents, thanks, on his behalf that is. I spoke with him last night when I went to get water and he told me to PLEASE MAKE SURE that everyone knew he was not mad or upset.

He is O.K. and stressed the fact that if anyone one of us needed anything to please not hesitate. He just wanted to make sure that if a novice read the piece then a possible initial impression if that the quality of service might be lacking...Not good when the Okinawan Electric Company owns 60% of his facility...and losing face in Japan is not an option. I was impressed with the research data and it did set me at ease. I am anxious to try and have a rig like the Wakiki setup....someday ~ with surge tank and all!

In short: He's good.

Patrick12
04/22/2009, 11:47 PM
That is great news, because I have nothing but respect and admiration for Mr. Taira-san. His service is better than most any LFS in the US, he takes time to show you around the facility, and is always accommodating. I was really stressed out to think that I did anything to him that would offend. ACO is the bomb! Being a hobbyist that loves all things reef, but leans towards the fishes......ACO is always a treat to visit.

Sango-chu
04/23/2009, 09:53 PM
ON THAT NOTE...DID YOU KNOW tht if you went to him with a specific species of fish that chances are he can order it for you at hundres of dollars less than you would pay anywhere else? Pretty good huh? I went to him with a specific list and the only one he couldn't get for me were the species from the Red Sea. Just I say HUNDREDS of dollars less and except the Red Sea...I'm impressed...

Patrick12
04/24/2009, 03:21 AM
What about Black Tangs (Zebrasoma rostratum)? I'd love me one of them.

2t2_crash
04/24/2009, 05:57 AM
i'm looking for either a blue or yellow tang.. how much are they normally?

james37128
04/24/2009, 06:55 AM
I have seen one black tang here in tokyo but it was in a "NFS" tank errrr. I'd love to have one myself.

Lionel
04/24/2009, 07:32 AM
ive seen yellow tangs at petbox for pretty cheap.. i asked the fish lady about a purple tang and she said very expensive.. lol

Sango-chu
04/24/2009, 05:51 PM
I've seen yellow going for about 5500 to 6000 yen out in town; got mine from him under 2000. Seen the blue tangs out in town for about the same and he is selling his right now for about 3000ish. I just looked up the black tank and I had to go get a cup of coffee!!!! YIKES!!! But now I AM interested in seeing if he can get them both! The BLACK and the PURPLE!!!! Gents, I'm onna quest...

james37128
04/24/2009, 06:48 PM
purple tangs go up here for around 6800, so I am sure he can get them for probably around 4000.

Sango-chu
04/24/2009, 08:01 PM
That's not a bad price, even at 6800...Live Aquaria has them going for 129,139,199; small, medium, large respectively.

Sango-chu
04/24/2009, 08:02 PM
sorry, that 6800 yen and the others in U.S. dollars.

Patrick12
04/24/2009, 08:29 PM
I can get black tangs for about $400 back home....but even that got hard for awhile....but I still can find them for that. If ACO can get them for a nice price, I might just have to get me one or two.

jeffb3t
04/29/2009, 03:27 AM
I have to say that Tiara-san has really helped me out with my office tank. In fact he even provided me a small purple frag from his NFS tank. All my shopping for livestock is done at his place since I know I can rely of getting healthy animals. Come to think of it I think I need to go and see him cause I think I have space in my tank for one more frag...

2t2_crash
04/29/2009, 08:59 AM
I'm on the hunt for a yellow tang now. lol

Lionel
04/29/2009, 11:49 PM
Every time that I visit ACO I start planning my own coral farm. i fell in love with this hobby at a very early age. my dad has been keeping reef tanks since before I was born. Seeing a setup like ACO has is a huge inspiration for the future.

Sango-chu
05/01/2009, 06:30 PM
talked to Taira-san yesterday: Black tang $400 and purple tang $60...think I'll order some purples in the future...need to slow down and get my tank on line first.

2t2_crash
05/01/2009, 07:00 PM
do they have any yellow's?
I didn't go yesterday, so I am going today if anyone else wants to join we can coord a time.

Sango-chu
05/01/2009, 07:51 PM
Nope, didn't see any but I am sure he can get some...

jeffb3t
05/05/2009, 05:27 AM
what about a flame angel? I saw he sometimes has them. I ordered one but it was DOA. Still wold like to get one though.

magrath
05/05/2009, 06:05 PM
Jeff,
I have seen flame angel's at the fish lady's store.

Sango-chu
05/06/2009, 12:56 AM
Went to the fish lady's grand re-opening on Saturday and was told the Wednesday before this to wait until Friday... they were going for 5500 yen. Got there Sat at 3:15 and they were all already sold out!!!!! sigh....

jeffb3t
05/06/2009, 04:51 AM
Sweet magrath.. I will have to check it out. Thanks!