Warner Marine H1

[Dave Harms]

It was a pleasure to get your emails today Scott. :D

To the rest of you: be very jealous! :eek2: :eek1:

Scott told be today he talked to WM and they will be shipping me the only production model WM currently has in stock. I'll be the first to get my grubby hands on the next generation H1!

Scott, you are the man!

I'll be writing up a review here in Aquarium Specialty's forum as soon as I get my mitts on it.

Believe it! :bum:

[Dave Harms]

I got home yesterday to find a package from WM on my porch...

The new H1 is here!

Initial Impressions:

Workmanship is top notch. This thing looks like a work of art. The blue plastic is a sweet touch.

No instructions were included in the carton. I assume once these things actually hit the market they will come with a manual. Or by that time WM will have the manual online on their website... right now it just says coming soon. :D

I emailed WM and Jon responded today, telling me how to work the thing, although I had already figured it out last night. Good response time though.

[Dave Harms]

After figuring out how to connect the plumbing I went to hang it on the side of my 15 gallon Oceanic....

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm1.jpg

It didn't fit!! I guess they designed these things for the currently popular "rimless" tanks. Or at least for ones that don't have 3/8" thick glass and a good sized trim.

[Dave Harms]

SO...

I broke out the dremel and carved up my tank a bit:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm2.jpg

It fits ok now. Although the screws meant to secure the skimmer to the tank are basically just hitting the inside of the trim precariously.

I'd LOVE to see WM make the little mounting arms longer. The gap in the arms needs to be wider to accommodate wider tank trim and also longer DOWNWARD so that the set screws aren't right on the lip of the tank.

The red areas show the parts that need to be made longer / wider IMO:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm2a.jpg

[Dave Harms]

After the minor surgery to my tank. I sucked on the end of the silencer to get a siphon going and cranked her up...

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm3.jpg

Bubbles! Not the good kind. I am currently getting micro-bubbles from them escaping under the bottom of the skimmer-cup riser (don't really know what this thing is called). I am also getting big bubbles caused by the water level in the skimmer being right at the top of the return pipe... so some air gets sucked though the return to be seen as large bubbles coming out of the other end.

I HOPE this situation will resolve itself after the skimmer gets broken in.

In this photo you can see where the water goes into the return... if you look close you can see that the surface shows disturbance... this is the return sucking air.

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm6.jpg

Somehow I need to get the water level to come up and STAY up a little above that return. I don't see how you could do that...

[Dave Harms]

Here is what the silencer looks like:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm4.jpg

It is connected to the pump's output end by a red hose. If I try to connect the silencer to the pipe coming from the tank, which I assume you are supposed to do, it kinks the hose and the skimmer can no longer produce any bubbles. Also the water starts filling up the skimmer, which on an in-sump model wouldn't be a problem... disaster on a HOB tho.

I am wondering if it is safe to trim this red hose so the silencer will sit down into the skimmer so I can put the lid on?

This is where I'd like the silencer to sit:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm7.jpg

[Dave Harms]

In this shot you can see how the skimmer body leans toward the tank at the bottom because of the thick rim my tank has, note the large gap up toward the top of the skimmer:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm5.jpg

I tried getting the skimmer to sit more upright to see if that would help with the bubbles returning to the display... no dice. I will still probably wedge something in there to straighten it out anyway. The Remora this skimmer is replacing had little screws at the bottom you could use to level it out on the side of the tank. Something to think about WM?

Also note the way the bubbles fill the tower. Looks like efficient bubble making to me!

[Dave Harms]

I know it sounds like I am ripping this skimmer. I actually like it a lot. A few tweaks to body design would fix the hanging issues related to tanks with big trim. The hanging arm seems to be welded on, seems like this could be an easy fix, maybe requiring resizing the cutting die for the arm, I dunno how this works exactly. :D

One thing I should mention. This thing makes a LOT of bubbles. And, it is MUCH quieter than the Remora I had. It is also nice not to have a damn maxi-jet hanging in my tank to run the skimmer. :D

[Dave Harms]

I am currently playing around with the cup level. Seems I get NO skimmate making it to the cup or I get clean water filling it all the way up, fast. It's been a long time since I broke in a skimmer but I know this is just part of the game, so no worries here.

Did I mention this thing is a really cool blue? :D

[Dave Harms]

Here is a FTS showing it in action.. note the bubbles:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm8.jpg

Comparison with the Remora in place, note the funky maxi-jet. No bubbles tho!

http://www.wax32.com/nano/images/041509_0008.jpg

[AquariumSpecialty]

We are addressing the bubble issues with Warner Marine. Stay tuned...

[Dave Harms]

Hi Scott!

OK, I will. :D

[kudora]

thx for the write up do you have any pics before it got wet?

its funny i have bubbles from my remora/maxijet setup

[Dave Harms]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14870900#post14870900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kudora
thx for the write up do you have any pics before it got wet?

its funny i have bubbles from my remora/maxijet setup

My pleasure. No, I forgot to take pictures of it on my table before it got wet.

The only bubbles I get from my remora are just from the water hitting the surface and making a few bubbles. Nothing like this. :D

Hopefully WM will figure out a fix because I sure like this skimmer except for the bubbles!

[Warner Marine]

Ok... let's start.

1) The hanger bracket is 25mm wide (1.0") and it fits MOST current tanks with the possible exception of tanks with VERY wide frames (Oceanic)

2) The micro-bubbles coming from under the reaction chamber is "normal" for a new skimmer, needs to break-in.

3) The bubbles coming from the output, I haven't seen that before. Might help to shorten the clear piece of tube before the output elbow.

And try something... remove the air silencer and let it run for a while. Notice any difference? Sometimes smaller pumps are sensitive to ANY restriction on the intake and will make them pull too much water which would cause both micro and macro bubble issues.

Remember, this is production model H-1 #1... I didn't even have a chance to fire it up here in the office... but we'll get it all ironed out.

And YES the adjustment screws on the back are a great idea... I'll pass it on.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm151/warnermarine/h1a.jpg

[Dave Harms]

Hey Jon!

I figured the micro-bubbles were just break in. I realize this is #1 so I expect to iron things out, no problem! I love the skimmer and I'm sure we'll get it straight, I'll be as much help as I can. I'm a gadget guy so it is kinda cool to be involved in getting your product right.

I just removed the silencer, I'll let it run that way for a bit and see what's up. The silencer sure does it's job as the skimmer is a lot louder without it! :D

I am glad you posted a picture of the unit as I forgot to take one before hanging it on the tank.

[Dave Harms]

Just brain-storming here...

If the diameter of the return tube was a little smaller, this would allow the water level in the skimmer to raise a little, wouldn't it? This in turn would keep the surface of the water higher above the return hole, which should keep it from sucking air, no?

I guess if you did this you would have to be careful to not make it too much smaller or you would run the risk of overflowing the skimmer.

Maybe put a ball valve on the return some kind of way for the end user to control output volume?

[Warner Marine]

Will also help if the return elbow is not submerged. My HX-2 here is set up so the return elbow is 1/2 submerged. And this works really well.

You don't want it to "siphon" out the output tube and that's what will happen if it's too small or too low.

Mine is aimed off to the side...

[VDub90]

How high above the tank mounts arethe tubes? This skimmer looks fantastic, but my fuge light on my all in one Cadlights is the same width as my fuge. So I need the input and output pipes to be just above the tank mounts.

[Dave Harms]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14876954#post14876954 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Warner Marine
Will also help if the return elbow is not submerged. My HX-2 here is set up so the return elbow is 1/2 submerged. And this works really well.

You don't want it to "siphon" out the output tube and that's what will happen if it's too small or too low.

Mine is aimed off to the side...

Ahh, 1/2 submerged makes sense. I have seen some HOB refugiums set up like that. That's probably the way to go. The refugiums I have seen have a larger return pipe too. Seems like they are only half full of water or less, basically like a waterfall just passing thru the pipe.

I have my return facing forward because it happens to give me some flow up front in the tank. :D

[Dave Harms]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14879684#post14879684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by VDub90
How high above the tank mounts arethe tubes? This skimmer looks fantastic, but my fuge light on my all in one Cadlights is the same width as my fuge. So I need the input and output pipes to be just above the tank mounts.

Here is a photo showing the height of the various tubes... sounds like it won't work for what you need.

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm9.jpg

The tubes stick out into the tank about 1 inch farther than my old Remora did too. The black plastic I had covering that back part of the tank doesn't reach anymore, I will have to cut some new pieces.

The black you see on the left of the picture is my orbit fixture. If it was the width of the tank I wouldn't be able to fit it, because the height it about the same as the return tube. Notice that the tank mount doesn't quite get to the top of my tank trim since it isn't wide enough. If it were the whole unit would be about 1/2" lower on the tank. ( I actually cut my trim on the tank, so it DOES go all the way to the trim top, just not in the picture, as I don't have it sitting down in the holes.)

[rivensteve13]

dave, how tall is the return line from the top of the tank. my light is the entire width of my tank and im wondering if it will run into this.

thanks,
steve

[Dave Harms]

Here is a photo with the skimmer correctly installed against the trim of the tank. I have the heights from the Trim Top to the TOP edge of the elbows marked on the image. The red line is the return, the green is the intake.

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm10.jpg

Anything else?

[Dave Harms]

By the way Jon, I ran the skimmer all day without the silencer. It didn't make a difference in the amount of flow/micro-bubbles so I don't think the silencer is a problem. I think the bigger return is the way to go.

Also, what if you made the silencer red tube longer so it can just dangle outside the skimmer box? This would allow us to close the skimmer top and still run the silencer. Right now if I try to jam the silencer down into the box and clip it to the tube it kinks the hose and cuts off air flow.

[rivensteve13]

thats what i was afraid of. it'll be too tall for my tank. well maybe the old h1 will work. the search for a new skimmer continues.

[Dave Harms]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14883504#post14883504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rivensteve13
thats what i was afraid of. it'll be too tall for my tank. well maybe the old h1 will work. the search for a new skimmer continues.

D'oh, sorry. Hope you find something that works.

[Dave Harms]

Hey Jon...

I was able to get the silencer into the skimmer box by wrapping the red hose all the way around the intake pipe, then reconnecting the silencer.

Problem is, running the silencer inside the closed skimmer box isn't quiet at all!

So, I still think making the hose longer so it can dangle outside the box would be a good idea.

[Warner Marine]

So have the MB's reduced in number? And re: the output pipe, it's the same as all the original H-1's... in fact the only difference between gen1 and gen2 is just the bubble plate, neck and silencer... and I haven't heard much about MB's and such... I'd aim the output at the wall and shorten the vertical output tube to get the elbow nearer the surface. The only time I see them have MB issues is when the venturi get's clogged and the water flow increases. Water flow is always the enemy on a HOB, we're always trying to keep the water flow down and the air flow up. And YES I agree about the silencer mounting.

[AquariumSpecialty]

Everyone, thanks for constructive dialog back and forth. This is the way threads/forums should play out.

[Dave Harms]

Hey Jon,

No, the MB's have stayed the same, the skimmer is starting to pull some nasty skimmate though! I still think the MB's still might go away after some more break in.

The MB's seem to be escaping under the tube from under the bubble plate.

There might not be enough room between the two elbows to get the bottom elbow close to the surface of the water. If I trim the clear tubing I would need to cut off pretty much ALL of it to get them to bump right up against one another, then the elbow might be at the surface.

I will take some measurements and then decide if I want to cut it or not. :D

I actually don't mind a few MB's in the tank, the main problem is the MB's plus the larger bubbles from the surface suction in the skimmer box are causing BAD salt creep, which I have never had a problem with before. I plan to fix this somewhat by re-rigging my glass to to better cover the gaps left by the bigger tubes running to and from the skimmer.

[Dave Harms]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14907851#post14907851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquariumSpecialty
Everyone, thanks for constructive dialog back and forth. This is the way threads/forums should play out.

You're welcome, and I agree! :D

[Dave Harms]

OK!

So there was more clear tube between the two elbows than I thought. I hadn't press-fitted them together very hard apparently. I cut off about 3/4" of the clear tube and got the two elbows to meet. I turned the return elbow to face the back glass so that the two elbows basically make a "U" instead of and "S".

NO MORE BUBBLE ISSUE!

The force of the water smacking the glass 1/4" after it comes out of the tube busts them up right quick.

Don't get me wrong, they are still technically coming out of the skimmer box, but because of the orientation of the elbow toward the glass now they are NOT scattering around the tank at all.

Problem SOLVED.

Now, a longer red hose to get the silencer out of the box and we are golden. :D

Thanks to Jon from WM and Scott from AS for going back and forth with me on this!


A+ costumer relations from both manufacturer and distributor IMO.

[Dave Harms]

Part Two of above...


There are still a "few" MB's bouncing around the back tank wall right under the return but about 98% less of them than there was before. I will say that I am happy with the VERY SMALL AMOUNT of MB's released by the skimmer now.

And who knows, after more break-in they may still decline in number.

[Dave Harms]

Here is what I ended up with on the elbow thing:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/elbows.jpg

[Dave Harms]

And here is the minimal intrusion in the tank: the grey is the return elbow, the clear pipe is the intake.

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm11.jpg

[Dave Harms]

Hey Jon,

What kind of hose is that (size and all) on the silencer so I can see about going to the hardware store or something and getting a longer one.

[Dave Harms]

By the way, I also ended up cutting the intake tube shorter too:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/wm12.jpg


The skimmer seems to be producing less MB's also. :D

[Warner Marine]

nice and clean looking. How's the skimmate production? The last solution is where to mount the silencer...

[Dave Harms]

It isn't pulling any NASTY stuff, but neither did my Remora. I don't feed my tank heavily so I don't expect a bunch of nasty skimmate.

It has been doing well I'd say. I had a bit of an issue with a anemone getting sucked into a power-head so the skimmer had some problems. There was so much slime in the bubble tower it couldn't skim properly. I took it apart and cleaned it. It has now been 2 days since that incident. Today I got home from work and the skimmer cup was full of very wet skimmate. After I emptied it I raised it up a bit. We'll see how it goes now. :D

[MSU Fan]

Is there a concern with the intake tube being clear and the possibility for algae to grow in the tube?

[Dave Harms]

Absolutely. But it is easily removable and can be scrubbed out. I'd much prefer a solid black or white tube, but this seems like it will be ok with regular maintenance.

[MSU Fan]

OK. Otherwise, very good review and exceptional collaboration on this skimmer!

[Dave Harms]

Thanks. :D

[Dave Harms]

Here's an update a couple of months later.

It still produces a fill MBs but they just hit the back glass and don't really cause any problems.

I run it with the cup almost as high as it will go this produces about an inch of nasty skimmate per week. If I run it lower it pulls wetter skimmate and I have to top off the tank a lot. :D

It is still running great. I still want to get the silencer out of the skimmer box, but I must admit to being lazy and I haven't looked for a hose at a hardware store yet, the noise isn't so bad to drive me to that length yet. :D

[Dave Harms]

Here is a short video of it in action:

http://www.wax32.com/gear/skimmerposter.jpg (http://www.wax32.com/gear/)

[Dave Harms]

Update: After the initial problems with break in the skimmer pulled pretty good skimmate. BUT after a couple of weeks after the above post I found I had to put the cup literally as high as it would go just so I wouldn't fill the cup in a day.

I sort've gave up on the skimmer for the past few months. Today I mounted it back on the tank and the bubble are going ape again. I see WM changed up the skimmer since I got mine so I shot off and email via their wesite asking if they made any changes to the skimmer that might make it work better for me.

We'll see!

[rupertr32]

Just here to point some things out. Hope it helps everyone.

1. On the H1 and H2 skimmers you have to make sure that the skimmer is level.
2. Make sure all elbows are pushed in all the way.
3. Raise return further up. (This is the reason that the skimmer is pulling air on the return.
4. For proper skimmate place the base of the cup on the top of the foam line.
5. Every other day plug up intake hose for about a second to eliminate an bubbles that build up in the interior intake elbow.
6. To many elbows on the return reduces the return flow.

I have both models and they perform flawlessly. These are much better and quieter than the deltecs that I had. These skimmers have everything matched up when it comes to foam consistency and performance. Here is a pic of what these things pull.

[Dave Harms]

Thanks rupert.

Not sure about step 3... raise return further up? I'm not sure what that means... my elbow is as high as it can go, literally bumped up against the top one.

Step 4: My foam line was coming all the way out of the tube! :D (After an email from Jon, I realise that my airline may have been kinked)

I like step 5, I will start doing that.

On the skimmate picture: mine is never that dark. The darkest mine gets is like sorta weak iced tea. I find it hard to believe that my overstocked nano is that clean lol! But maybe it is, who knows?

[Dave Harms]

By the way, Jon from WM emailed me promptly and gave me some good tips. It seems like my early #1 edition should be operationally the same as the current ones. Jon asked me about my collection cup, saying it might be an early version but I'm not sure. The bottom of it sure looks like the one in ruperts picture.

[rupertr32]

Dave,

Yeah, if there are any sort of blockage on the intake the skimmer will overflow to the point that the return will be submerged. When properly operating, the clear return tube on top (between interior elbow and exterior elbow) should be filled about 85%. Just run the air intake line just like it's in the picture from SaltyCritter.com.


I only get microbubbles when I feed. If you are getting microbubbles still, I would make sure that the venturi and intake are clean. Rinse the intake hose in hot water. All skimmers should be cleaned out atleast every three months so that it performs it's best. And for the best dark dry skimmate, place cup at foam line (1/2" - 1") from water line. These skimmers produce anywhere from 2-4 inches of foam head without the cup being installed. Simply amazing. These remind me of good insump/outsump skimmers.

Here is another picture of Nogcropolis...

[Dave Harms]

the clear return tube on top (between interior elbow and exterior elbow) should be filled about 85%....

No matter what I do my return tube is completly under water... gonna check out that photo on saltycritter.com now

[rupertr32]

Have you tried removing the last elbow on the return?

[mr9iron]

Is it ok for the output to be below the water line? Mine is only skimming lite green tea. I must be doing something wrong.

[rupertr32]

Please give skimmer a few days to break in. Place the bottom base of cup on the top of the foam head. The return can be underwater. One the JBJ you have to make sure that the back chambers have enough water height (2-3 inches from top lip of tank at the least). Also make sure that you do not have any air between the pump and interior elbow as I commented earlier.

[mr9iron]

Please give skimmer a few days to break in. Place the bottom base of cup on the top of the foam head. The return can be underwater. One the JBJ you have to make sure that the back chambers have enough water height (2-3 inches from top lip of tank at the least). Also make sure that you do not have any air between the pump and interior elbow as I commented earlier.

It's been on my tank for a month now. My water level is fine as well. I guess since I have such a light bio load that it just does not skim much.

[bamse]

I have a similar experience with H1, i.e. I like the unit though I've encounter every single issue that was reported here.
The most annoying is the trade-off between noise or MB-s. If I remove the silencer, I get very few MB-s but the unit is a bit too loud. If I use the silencer, the unit is nice and quiet, but I get MB-s everywhere in my tank. In a couple of hours they are hanging off everything.
For now I chose to remove the silencer and keep the visuals.

Here are a few things that I have tried to remove the bubbles and keep the silencer:
- rotating the second elbow to raise the return on one side and have it 1/2 submerged (I thought that was actually worse, maybe because in my tank due to the pumps being pointed towards the surface I have higher movement at the water surface; I will try again with a different pump config once the sand gets a bit more sticky);
- partially closing the return (use some adhesive band to close part of the last elbow); the idea is that if you get the return flow to match the inflow, you will not siphon out air through the return; this worked, but I decided against because of the risks involved (see below).
- third thing I have tried was to use a nylon sock to retain the MB-s outflow (this failed also since the bubbles are simply passing through it)


All in all, the best attempt was to have the return partially covered. This my feeble attempt to explain what is happening :).
Covering party the return pipe to match in the intake removes the big bubbles that are siphoned out of the skimmer. You will still pass along MB-s, but in the absence of the macro bubbles, the flow is less turbulent and MBs tend to exit the return closer to the upper side of the pipe (closer to water surface, where they dissipate faster; when they exit in every direction, they are picked by ph-s and are pushed everywhere in the tank). Unfortunately, there is a risk of overflow that I am not willing to take. I believe that the return pipe is intentionally designed to be slightly bigger, to cover for tolerances in pump's power and various contexts that alter the intake flow (like the water level in the tank). If your intake pipe diameter and the pump power are getting in more water than your return is able to process, you will have an overflow. The closer you are to an ideal balance, the slower the process is, but you will get an overflow at some point nevertheless. Ideally you would err in the other direction, i.e. the return is a bit bigger so that you still get siphoning, but it happens less frequent.
I am not confident enough in my engineering skills at this point to risk an overflow, so I've decided to drop the idea of partially covering the return pipe.

The skimmer seems a bit fussy for now, but I have only a cycling tank for now, and the rocks I got are fully cured, so I do not expect much gunk in the water. Looking forward to seeing how it performs once I start increasing the bio-load.

[mr9iron]

So have the MB's reduced in number? And re: the output pipe, it's the same as all the original H-1's... in fact the only difference between gen1 and gen2 is just the bubble plate, neck and silencer... and I haven't heard much about MB's and such... I'd aim the output at the wall and shorten the vertical output tube to get the elbow nearer the surface. The only time I see them have MB issues is when the venturi get's clogged and the water flow increases. Water flow is always the enemy on a HOB, we're always trying to keep the water flow down and the air flow up. And YES I agree about the silencer mounting.

Will the skimmer run efficently without the elbow on the output. Mine was submerged so I took it off and wonder if this will affect it's performance. Oh, and the buzzing motor is loud. I have took the pump apart, cleaned and reseated it on several ocassions with no success. Any suggestions?

[Dave Harms]

Hey, didn't see these recent posts. Mine is still producing a few MB's but not enough to annoy me. It pulls horribly stinky stuff out of my tank. It takes a while for it to fill the cup, and when I pour it out, it is almost black and makes me gag. :D I haven't tried angling the return, never thought of that! I'll have to try it.

[mfishies]

I have the H1, second generation also. I purchased the skimmer a few months back and I have never been able to get it to operate decently for more than a couple of days. Water bubbles over the collection cup almost immediately, sometimes it will make a tea looking skimmate and take most of the day to fill the cup. I have tried every suggestion I can find.. cleaning with vinegar water, ensuring all fittings are tight, no kinks in the air hose, no supplements, not using the silencer, bought different lengths of pvc to adjust the return.. and nothing works.. does anyone have any other ideas?? I've contacted the company and received no additional help.. I'm at a loss and can't really afford buying another skimmer after the money spent on the H1..