How does this plumbing (sketchup) look?

[drummereef]

Hey guys, been working on my 180g build for a while now. My sump is on order and will be here in a couple weeks so I thought I would mock up a diagram of the plumbing design. The idea is to have a remote refugium plumbed into the system. Everything in the sump will be run off the Dart return pump from the manifold, except for the MSX250 skimmer. There will be a couple of Tunzes or Vortechs for additional flow in the display.

I will be using as much spa flex as I can as well. Couldn't find a way to emulate flex pvc in the sketchup. :)

Thoughts???

Front:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/Plumbing1.jpg



Right Side:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/Plumbing2.jpg



Left Side:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/Plumbing3.jpg



Top Down:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/Plumbing4.jpg



Current progress:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/180g%20Reef%20Tank/newpics010.jpg

[uncleof6]

Wondering how you are planning to get the water back to the system from the "fuge", other than that, wish you were not using them tiny corner overflow thingys, not very efficient..... and looks like you are going to have a noisy overflow/drain system, with some left/ right balance problems maybe (that long pipe run across the tank.) Good to see feeding "fuge" from return rather than drain. But no immediate emergency's are apparent. (If no one else agrees with me, then I will find something else to gripe about.):D WELL you did ask......... Doin good with the sketchup thing, seems a trend has been started. Good luck with your new tank. Your thinking is right: Planning.

Regards,

Jim

[Washaufizzi]

OMG.... Great sketch up..... how did you do that?

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14827636#post14827636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Washaufizzi
OMG.... Great sketch up..... how did you do that?

Dunno, but I think he's gettin his ideas from me.........:p :smokin:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/fishroom10.jpg

Jim

[hummermaniac88]

Very nice system and sketch ups, wow everything is top notch! Good luck with the rest of the build! You have some mad skills for sketchup!

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14827602#post14827602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Wondering how you are planning to get the water back to the system from the "fuge", other than that, wish you were not using them tiny corner overflow thingys, not very efficient..... and looks like you are going to have a noisy overflow/drain system, with some left/ right balance problems maybe (that long pipe run across the tank.) Good to see feeding "fuge" from return rather than drain. But no immediate emergency's are apparent. (If no one else agrees with me, then I will find something else to gripe about.):D WELL you did ask......... Doin good with the sketchup thing, seems a trend has been started. Good luck with your new tank. Your thinking is right: Planning.

Regards,

Jim

Hey Jim, the return water from the fuge will gravity drain back to the return section of the sump. Just haven't had time to mock that part of the system up yet. :) I thought using the true union ball valves on the two return lines will help balance the flow. Obviously the shorter the run the more flow. I'll have to valve that side down and let the rest go towards the far side return. Thoughts?

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14827636#post14827636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Washaufizzi
OMG.... Great sketch up..... how did you do that?

And it's a free download. :)

http://sketchup.google.com/

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14827804#post14827804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Dunno, but I think he's gettin his ideas from me.........:p :smokin:

Jim

:lol: I was actually thinking of hitting you up to pimp my design Jim. :D I know you're a busy guy though. :)

[PapaKlix]

it appears that your "front" view is really your rear view? did you take that from the standard SU views? i always end up having my models facing backwards in SU :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14828481#post14828481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PapaKlix
it appears that your "front" view is really your rear view? did you take that from the standard SU views? i always end up having my models facing backwards in SU :)

Haha, technically yes the "front" view is the back of the tank of course. It's just the viewable side from the doorway into the sump room. :) I just panned the view in SU to find the best angles to show, then I exported as jpeg files. I guess that's what you were asking? :rolleye1:

[therealfatman]

It would be much better to run a staright lim\ne from your sump to your Dart pump. 90 degree fittings right before pumps often cause cavitation, which can destroy a pump and piping joints. I would not reduce the dischargw piping of the Dart pump until the finla brancing for the discharges. Darts are good high volume pumps as long as they do not have to wprk against any fricional losses such ad reductions in pipe sizes and sharp bends such as 90 degree fittings. Flex PVC forms more gradula turns that cause much less friction. I would run all 1.5" pipe and flex pipe for all return lines and valves right up to a reducer at the bulkheads and at each outlet at the manfold. I would use either a distributer from Flexpvc or three "t" fittings for the manifold.
http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Distributors

[scaryperson27]

-I would start by cutting out the corner overflows and use the holes for a small closed loop to keep everything clean behind the rockwork. The overflow could be replaced with a Dart Overflow Kit (http://glass-holes.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=45). This would allow for cleaner plumbing and a more convenient tank.

-For the return pump, I would have a bulkhead shoot straight to the input of the pump coming from the sump through 2" piping with a union, leaving enough space for the pipe to be cut and a new fitting attached if need be.

-Next I would then drill the back of the tank for the 1.5" return. You could put a valve on the return and have it tee off to a manifold before the valve, which could be Clamped (http://savko.com/portal/click-clamp.asp) to the tank stand.

-The only flex tubing I would use, would be from the bulkhead in the sump to the intake of the pump 2".

-for the manifold, I would run 1.5" with tee fittings and different bushings depending on the size of the valves that you want. I would use threaded valves and bushings so that you have options in changing sizes barbs etc down the road. Whatever you are running, I would use barbs coming off of the valves going to vinyl tubing to whatever you are running.

Sorry if this sounds really confusing. It's really late and I'm tired.

Clamp:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3440255163_29aac0d999.jpg

Clamp/Manifold:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3441068468_c7d1fb01d4.jpg

Overflow:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3580/3441068128_04d6baf26c.jpg

[drummereef]

I'm going to stick with the overflows built into the system. It's a Marineland 180g cornerflo with starfire front panel.

Any other thoughts on the plumbing layout? What would be the best way to balance the flow from left to right?

[kcress]

Yes it tiz a shame you can't back that dart up for a straight shot at the suction for a less rambling setup. Looks like you'd have room. If need be, you can always put the suction valve inside the sump not between the sump and the pump. But as you have it, you have enough straight run.

Looks pretty good.

[ToolmanRR]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14828191#post14828191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
And it's a free download. :)

http://sketchup.google.com/

Are you able to save your work using that free version of SketchUp? You were able to get all those pieces of your drawing using the free version too?

[therealfatman]

Mechanical engineers recommend a minimum length of straight pipe 10 times the inside diameter of a pumps intake before any restrictive fitting or tight bend with 30 times being preferred over 10. That means a straight 15 inch piece of pipe between your pumps intake and the ball valve, union and 90 degree turn. I would suggest the true union/ball valve at the bulkhead, the 90 fitting attached to that, then a straight run of pipe with threaded adapter at the pumps intake.

[chriscobb]

A straight shot to the return pump would be ideal, but I've used the bend in the past and no issue with cavitation on the pump as suggested could happen....as long as you don't reduce any.....There are quite a few setups I've seen with the pump mounted that way. I think the plumbing looks good though.

[scaryperson27]

If you are set on running a 90 degree fitting right off of the bulkhead, then I would go with a 2" bulkhead and related plumbing.

[scaryperson27]

Also, I don't think the dart pumps have a slip inlet/outlet. You are going to have to account for a Male Adapter coupling plus area to cut/modify the pipe if need be.

[uncleof6]

2" spa fitting (union) male thread on one side, female on the other..... 1.5" for the outlet. works good looks good lasts a long time. 2" bulkhead, 2" inlet line mandatory.......for pump performance.

Jim

[BrassMonkey]

i could never get straight dorsos quiet. id turn those returns into siphons and add a return somewhere else.

[uncleof6]

Great idea, but I am not liking those small return pipes for siphons for this pump. Up the size 1.5" yes. But then I would not be likely those corner overflows. I am thinking that "reef ready" needs to be redefined at the manufacturing level. Well no one else agreed with me..............

Regards,

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14831643#post14831643 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kcress
Yes it tiz a shame you can't back that dart up for a straight shot at the suction for a less rambling setup. Looks like you'd have room. If need be, you can always put the suction valve inside the sump not between the sump and the pump. But as you have it, you have enough straight run.

Looks pretty good.

I still might be able to do a straight run to the sump with the Dart. It was the original plan. But, the sump I have on order is 56" long. I'll just have to see if I can squeeze it in the corner. I was trying to get as much air space around the fan as possible. Don't want the fan backed up against the wall. ;)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14831747#post14831747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ToolmanRR
Are you able to save your work using that free version of SketchUp? You were able to get all those pieces of your drawing using the free version too?

Yes you can save and print from the free version. You can get free models via the program as well. People upload their models to the "3d warehouse" free for the taking. And they can be tweaked to fit your design. ;)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14831814#post14831814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by therealfatman
Mechanical engineers recommend a minimum length of straight pipe 10 times the inside diameter of a pumps intake before any restrictive fitting or tight bend with 30 times being preferred over 10. That means a straight 15 inch piece of pipe between your pumps intake and the ball valve, union and 90 degree turn. I would suggest the true union/ball valve at the bulkhead, the 90 fitting attached to that, then a straight run of pipe with threaded adapter at the pumps intake.

Gotcha, all good information. The sketchup might not show it but I probably have a good 15-20" of straight pipe before the 90 that heads towards the sump. It will be 2" pipe and fittings, same as the suction side on the Dart. :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14831999#post14831999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
If you are set on running a 90 degree fitting right off of the bulkhead, then I would go with a 2" bulkhead and related plumbing.

The 90 would be a good 15-20" away from the inlet of the pump. The drawing probably doesn't show the scale very well. :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14832118#post14832118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
2" spa fitting (union) male thread on one side, female on the other..... 1.5" for the outlet. works good looks good lasts a long time. 2" bulkhead, 2" inlet line mandatory.......for pump performance.

Jim

Yes, definitely sticking with the pumps plumbing size of 2" in and 1.5" outs. Not going to reduce until the return hits the bulkheads. Then it will reduce to 1" up to the locline. I didn't know you could get unions that had male/female threads... I'll look for those. :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14833623#post14833623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Great idea, but I am not liking those small return pipes for siphons for this pump. Up the size 1.5" yes. But then I would not be likely those corner overflows. I am thinking that "reef ready" needs to be redefined at the manufacturing level. Well no one else agreed with me..............

Regards,

Jim


There might be some confusion on the return plumbing... The two small 1" pipes (no fittings in the drawing) are returns only. There will be locline fittings on the real deal. The return plumbing is 1.5" up to the bulkhead where it will reduce to 1" and exit out locline. All the drain plumbing will be 1.5" down to the sump. The Dart will have 2" suction side PVC.

Does that clarify at all. :confused:

[BrassMonkey]

uh huh, i see it. im sayin to turn those 1in returns into full siphons(herbie style) for the drain and add returns somewhere else.
because just dursos can be noisy.

uncleof6 replied that he thinks 2 1 inch syphons would be to small.

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834255#post14834255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrassMonkey
uh huh, i see it. im sayin to turn those 1in returns into full siphons(herbie style) for the drain and add returns somewhere else.
because just dursos can be noisy.

uncleof6 replied that he thinks 2 1 inch syphons would be to small.

Ok I see what you are saying now. I thought about that after reading through that thread. I didn't realize that 1" drains wouldn't work for the herbie overflows. I'll review that thread again. I get it confused with Bean's sometimes. :)

[BrassMonkey]

i believe i read that 1in bulkheads can do 600gph. so it would be possible if you have no more then 1200gph through your sump.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834421#post14834421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrassMonkey
i believe i read that 1in bulkheads can do 600gph. so it would be possible if you have no more then 1200gph through your sump.

Actually a 1" full siphon will be closer to 960gph, from chart, not taking other variables into account. But yeah, he would have to throttle the pump back some. But I would not use 1" pipe on that pumps outlet either, even if split from a 1.5" pipe. Still increases the head loss.

Jim

[scaryperson27]

If his pumps are going to run the pipe at full siphon, it will be super quiet at least.

[drummereef]

Just so we are all on the same page I color coded the plumbing. :)


RED = Drains 1.5" pvc

BLUE = Returns 1.5" pvc

PURPLE = 1" return from Bulkhead to Locline

Green = Dart Suction from Sump 2" pvc




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/PlumbingColorCoded1.jpg


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/PlumbingColorCoded2.jpg

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834907#post14834907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
If his pumps are going to run the pipe at full siphon, it will be super quiet at least.

Now this is very true.....

Jim

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834931#post14834931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Just so we are all on the same page I color coded the plumbing. :)


RED = Drains 1.5" pvc

BLUE = Returns 1.5" pvc

PURPLE = 1" return from Bulkhead to Locline

Green = Dart Suction from Sump 2" pvc




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/PlumbingColorCoded1.jpg


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/Miscellaneous/PlumbingColorCoded2.jpg

We are on the same page. Have been.:)

Jim

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834281#post14834281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Ok I see what you are saying now. I thought about that after reading through that thread. I didn't realize that 1" drains wouldn't work for the herbie overflows. I'll review that thread again. I get it confused with Bean's sometimes. :)

Beans would work with 1" pipe as well, but you are not able to beanize without some major reworking of your tank. Others that brought up the 90s in your suction line are right, the turbulence from the first doesn't have enough length to the second, to become laminar again, then hits the second elbow which will create more turbulence (velocity difference between the inner and outer radius.) This combination could cause some cavitation. If at all possible get the pump nose in to the sump. Even if it meant making the sump shorter in length. There is another way also, but it takes some "sump magic." There is a render of it in the sketchup thread. o

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835016#post14835016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
We are on the same page. Have been.:)

Jim

Haha, good. :D



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835010#post14835010 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Now this is very true.....

Jim

But this would be rather dangerous without a backup drain, correct?

[uncleof6]

double post... oooops

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835100#post14835100 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Haha, good. :D





But this would be rather dangerous without a backup drain, correct?

Without an emergency drain, it would not be a good idea.... you posted under me, then I double posted..... see above

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835095#post14835095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Beans would work with 1" pipe as well, but you are not able to beanize without some major reworking of your tank. Others that brought up the 90s in your suction line are right, the turbulence from the first doesn't have enough length to the second, to become laminar again, then hits the second elbow which will create more turbulence (velocity difference between the inner and outer radius.) This combination could cause some cavitation. If at all possible get the pump nose in to the sump. Even if it meant making the sump shorter in length. There is another way also, but it takes some "sump magic." There is a render of it in the sketchup thread. o

Jim


Are you referring to the "first 90" as the submerged 90 inside the return section of the sump? The "second 90" would make the turn towards the Dart?

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835119#post14835119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835095#post14835095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Beans would work with 1" pipe as well, but you are not able to beanize without some major reworking of your tank. Others that brought up the 90s in your suction line are right, the turbulence from the first doesn't have enough length to the second, to become laminar again, then hits the second elbow which will create more turbulence (velocity difference between the inner and outer radius.) This combination could cause some cavitation. If at all possible get the pump nose in to the sump. Even if it meant making the sump shorter in length. There is another way also, but it takes some "sump magic." There is a render of it in the sketchup thread. o

Jim [/QUOTE


Are you referring to the "first 90" as the submerged 90 inside the return section of the sump? The "second 90" would make the turn towards the Dart?

Yes

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835131#post14835131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Yes

Jim


Could I simply omit the first 90 in the sump and use a strainer instead? Would this eliminate some turbulence?

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835133#post14835133 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Could I simply omit the first 90 in the sump and use a strainer instead? Would this eliminate some turbulence?

Yes, or use a "sweep" not as much turbulence. But the screen will plug up over time, and create some suction loss also...... :)

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/DSCN0222.jpg

Jim

[drummereef]

Is this your pump in the photo above Jim? ^^^

What is the distance from the bulkhead to the back of the pump (fan) in the configuration above?

[scaryperson27]

I like strainers. It gives me something else I can clean crap out of. I use them because I don't want anything screwing up my impeller.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835206#post14835206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Is this your pump in the photo above Jim? ^^^

What is the distance from the bulkhead to the back of the pump (fan) in the configuration above?

This is one of my spare pumps. It is "mocked up" for illustrative purposes. It is a dart w/Baldor motor, brand new... that came up in another thread---- ooops) The distance from the inside of the bulkhead (right after the 90) is 23.5" The actual running length is 26.5" from the outside of the sump. I run a sweep inside identical to the one in photo above.

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835476#post14835476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
This is one of my spare pumps. It is "mocked up" for illustrative purposes. It is a dart w/Baldor motor, brand new... that came up in another thread---- ooops) The distance from the inside of the bulkhead (right after the 90) is 23.5" The actual running length is 26.5" from the outside of the sump. I run a sweep inside identical to the one in photo above.

Jim


Gotcha. I have the new Baldor motor on my Dart as well. I doubt with that total length I'll be able to get the pump straight into the sump. I'm going to have to use one 90 to make it work.

I just uploaded my sketchup to the 3d warehouse. I'll post a link in the "free sketchup renderings" thread. I'd appreciate any design changes if you have time. :)



Here's my Dart (Baldor motor)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/180g%20Reef%20Tank/newpics008.jpg

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835520#post14835520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Gotcha. I have the new Baldor motor on my Dart as well. I doubt with that total length I'll be able to get the pump straight into the sump. I'm going to have to use one 90 to make it work.

I just uploaded my sketchup to the 3d warehouse. I'll post a link in the "free sketchup renderings" thread. I'd appreciate any design changes if you have time. :)



Here's my Dart (Baldor motor)

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa113/drummereef/180g%20Reef%20Tank/newpics008.jpg

Yeah I heard a rumor that Reeflo quit using Baldor motors on the Dart, in favor of A.O. Smith some time ago, to save money.

You are a bit cramped for room on that end I can see that. But I bet I can get it nose in. Could be wrong. Wonder whatever happened to that build guess I will bump it see what is going on.

Jim

[uncleof6]

Here is an example of breaking all the rules: :D

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/64977P7280001.jpg

J

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835589#post14835589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Here is an example of breaking all the rules: :D

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/64977P7280001.jpg

J

:lol: Yeah I saw that one in your gallery. :D I spoke with the guys at Reeflo before I bought mine. They switched to the Baldor motors in Sept '08 and have been shipping with them ever since. Just got mine about a week ago, dropped shipped from MDM.

[uncleof6]

I drive thirty minutes and can buy a warehouse full of them. My gallery is pretty lame.

Jim

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14834031#post14834031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Yes, definitely sticking with the pumps plumbing size of 2" in and 1.5" outs. Not going to reduce until the return hits the bulkheads. Then it will reduce to 1" up to the locline. I didn't know you could get unions that had male/female threads... I'll look for those. :)

Look at the pic of the dart I put here.... the fitting I am talking about is there.

Jim

[ToolmanRR]

I downloaded and installed the Google SketchUp 7.

I see a lot of really cool detailed sketched with great looking valves, pumps, skimmers, etc. Are you all making these individual pieces in these sketches or is there a repository where I can get these from that pertain to fish tanks? I looked in the 3D warehouse and I find everything "but" the stuff we use.

"PLEASE HELP!"

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835647#post14835647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
I drive thirty minutes and can buy a warehouse full of them. My gallery is pretty lame.

Jim

Got that address? :D :lol:

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14837666#post14837666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ToolmanRR
I downloaded and installed the Google SketchUp 7.

I see a lot of really cool detailed sketched with great looking valves, pumps, skimmers, etc. Are you all making these individual pieces in these sketches or is there a repository where I can get these from that pertain to fish tanks? I looked in the 3D warehouse and I find everything "but" the stuff we use.

"PLEASE HELP!"

It's all in the warehouse. Just search PVC and all the fittings I used should come up. I also got the Dart and skimmer from there too. :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14835780#post14835780 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Look at the pic of the dart I put here.... the fitting I am talking about is there.

Jim


I was thinking about using a sweep instead of the 2nd 90, when it turns towards the pump. But, I heard it's a DWV fitting that isn't suitable for pressure rated plumbing. They were saying it has a more shallow throat where you glue it up verses standard fittings. Thoughts?

[H.Veras]

hey drummereef you think you could help me out with my schetchup with a 90g tech-S.... i'll show you some pic...
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00175.jpg
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00176.jpg
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00177.jpg

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838570#post14838570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.Veras
hey drummereef you think you could help me out with my schetchup with a 90g tech-S.... i'll show you some pic...
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00175.jpg
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00176.jpg
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/deborah_veras/DSC00177.jpg


Looks like you have everything you need already. :D What are you looking to do, just the plumbing?

[H.Veras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838627#post14838627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Looks like you have everything you need already. :D What are you looking to do, just the plumbing?

yeah i need to finish the plumbing... and i don't know what kind of pump should i use for return... pump needs to be inside the ref. sump cuz i don't have much space...

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838755#post14838755 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.Veras
yeah i need to finish the plumbing... and i don't know what kind of pump should i use for return... pump needs to be inside the ref. sump cuz i don't have much space...

For a 90g I would get a submersible pump with a flow rating between 270-450gph. That's 3-5x your display size. Eheims are great submersibles imo. Should be a fairly straight forward design. How many drain and return bulkheads are there? I would definitely add either a couple of Tunzes or Vortechs to supplement the flow in the display.

[comsense]

Brett,

Why do you put your manifold on the return line as opposed to the drain line? Is it for higher flow rates?

I am designing my plumbing and plan to have a manifold on the drain line, but they are for low flow devices (phosban, carbon reactor and uv). Now I'm wondering if I should move it over to the return line.

-rich

[scaryperson27]

Comsense, Think about all of the air that will pass into your Phosban/carbon reactor. I would put the manifold for those items on your Return line, or have a separate pump pumping those items. The UV filter and external protein skimmer (if you have one) will both be fine.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838092#post14838092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
I was thinking about using a sweep instead of the 2nd 90, when it turns towards the pump. But, I heard it's a DWV fitting that isn't suitable for pressure rated plumbing. They were saying it has a more shallow throat where you glue it up verses standard fittings. Thoughts?

The plumbing we use does not need a pressure rating. The pressures we deal with are generally less than 10 psi.

Jim

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838774#post14838774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
For a 90g I would get a submersible pump with a flow rating between 270-450gph. That's 3-5x your display size. Eheims are great submersibles imo. Should be a fairly straight forward design. How many drain and return bulkheads are there? I would definitely add either a couple of Tunzes or Vortechs to supplement the flow in the display.

Eheims are a good name, but they are not all that.......:D 3-5x is stone age, (predates widespread reef tanks) and for low stocking levels. try 10x as a starting point. This is on the return from the sump, not the total flow needed for a reef tank.

Jim

[H.Veras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14838774#post14838774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
For a 90g I would get a submersible pump with a flow rating between 270-450gph. That's 3-5x your display size. Eheims are great submersibles imo. Should be a fairly straight forward design. How many drain and return bulkheads are there? I would definitely add either a couple of Tunzes or Vortechs to supplement the flow in the display.

i got two drain and two return bulkheads.... and i'll be getting some vortechs

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14839922#post14839922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
Comsense, Think about all of the air that will pass into your Phosban/carbon reactor. I would put the manifold for those items on your Return line, or have a separate pump pumping those items. The UV filter and external protein skimmer (if you have one) will both be fine.

Agree. And you'll have much more flow control. :)

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14840223#post14840223 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Eheims are a good name, but they are not all that.......:D 3-5x is stone age, (predates widespread reef tanks) and for low stocking levels. try 10x as a starting point. This is on the return from the sump, not the total flow needed for a reef tank.

Jim

True, maybe. All depends on the needs of your skimmer, imo. And with many overflow systems like mine 10x is at the upper range of it's capacity. No headroom is asking for trouble. :)

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14841262#post14841262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
True, maybe. All depends on the needs of your skimmer, imo. And with many overflow systems like mine 10x is at the upper range of it's capacity. No headroom is asking for trouble. :)

Sorry, but the needs of the skimmer got nuffin to do with the flow rate through the sump. I went through that one via pm with a member. This is corrupted information.

I see your dilemma with the drain size, which is why I say "reef ready-- ain't," and corner overflows are obsolete (inefficient and not enough room.) That is directed at the manufacturers. Unfortunately, the critters suffer. Anyway no one listens to me, my post count ain't high enough...... :D

Regards,

Jim

[comsense]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14839922#post14839922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
Comsense, Think about all of the air that will pass into your Phosban/carbon reactor.

I see your point, but this doesn't necessarily have to be true if you size your line right and the outlets of the manifold are coming out of the bottom of the pipe.

I think I'll put a manifold on the drain line and the return line just for kicks so I can do some experimenting and maybe have some extra flexibility in the future.

Thanks guys,
Rich

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14841420#post14841420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Sorry, but the needs of the skimmer got nuffin to do with the flow rate through the sump. I went through that one via pm with a member. This is corrupted information.

I see your dilemma with the drain size, which is why I say "reef ready-- ain't," and corner overflows are obsolete (inefficient and not enough room.) That is directed at the manufacturers. Unfortunately, the critters suffer. Anyway no one listens to me, my post count ain't high enough...... :D

Regards,

Jim


To each his own I guess... ;) What kind of overflows are you using on your 240 wide tank? Got any pics?

[uncleof6]

External coast to coast.. no pics.

Jim

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842167#post14842167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
External coast to coast.. no pics.

Jim


What's the dimensions?

[uncleof6]

58 x 5 x 8"

[drummereef]

Sounds nice. :)

[uncleof6]

It works. Changed it a couple years ago or so. then another change soon after Bean's design was put up, don't take me long to separate the wheat from the chaff. I will say it is far easier to plan ahead, then change on the fly, and I don't really recommend it. The tank went up in '04.

Jim

[drummereef]

Got that right. :) Wish there were more custom tank builders in my area. There's a couple good acrylic guys close but the glass guys just aren't around. I looked into it but it was going to be a killer to ship. I guess that's a benefit to living in CA.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842616#post14842616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
Got that right. :) Wish there were more custom tank builders in my area. There's a couple good acrylic guys close but the glass guys just aren't around. I looked into it but it was going to be a killer to ship. I guess that's a benefit to living in CA.

You got a respectable tank. I just see that the manufacturers are behind in things. You don't really need a custom builder, as with a little care, they are not that hard to build. Back in '04 I was still hot on the acrylic thing, planned it all out. then went to a glass shop. go figure. probably won't go back to acrylic for a tank. There is a price for the "benefit" of California, I would rather be in Idaho.................

Jim

[drummereef]

So your 240 is acrylic then? I'll take the warm sunny days of Cali any day over winter in the midwest. San Diego is a nice town. Haven't been in a while but was nice visiting. Can't stand LA... but can tolerate it for the weather. :D