View Full Version : Ways to improve coloration?
customdusty
04/16/2009, 08:35 PM
I'm relatively new to keeping SPS and have had some success with growth, but everything seems to slowly lose the brilliant colors after becoming acclimated to my tank. It is really disappointing to watch everything become bland.
Thinking that it may have been inadequate lighting, I upgraded my light fixture somewhat recently and have not noticed any improvements. Actually, I nuked a few corals under the increased intensity and nearly lost them before moving them lower in the tank. My new lighting has been up for over 2 months now.
I think my water quality is good. Regular water changes with RO/DI water and testing via multiple brands of test kits and Pinpoint monitors for pH, salinity, and temp. No detectable phosphate or nitrate. I top off with limewater which keeps the Calcium and Mg pretty high - although I do struggle to keep the pH / Alk up during the winter due to high C02 levels. pH and alk have come up over the past few weeks with windows open periodically - these paramaters being the only that vary, likely due to the seasonal change.
I run carbon in a reactor and have a fuge with cheato that grows quickly. I do have several fish in the tank and they are fed mysis shrimp and Rod's food. No other additives and food are added to the tank.
Not sure what other information might be relevant, just ask and I'll be happy to share.
So what can I be doing differently to improve the color of my SPS?
concept3
04/16/2009, 08:59 PM
What I did differently as I had the same "non"-issues (especially with PO4/NO3):
changed lights from 6500K to 12K
decreased photoperiod from 9 to 6 hrs total
increased salinity to 1.026
fed the fish a lot heavier with home made food concoction
made the tank a ULNS system
Canadian
04/16/2009, 09:01 PM
How much "seasonal" variation are you getting in your alk, Ca, and Mg?
customdusty
04/16/2009, 09:11 PM
I currently keep my salinity at 1.025 and run a 7 hr photoperiod.
I'm not sure of the color temp of my lighting cumulatively, but I currently run the following T5 bulb combo:
Blue +
Pro Color
Blue +
Aquablue Special
Blue +
Aquablue Special
Blue +
customdusty
04/16/2009, 09:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14841666#post14841666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canadian
How much "seasonal" variation are you getting in your alk, Ca, and Mg?
Winter/High C02 season pH: 7.8-8.0
Winter/High C02 season Alk: 2.0-2.5 meq/l
Low C02 season pH: 8.1-8.3
Low C02 season Alk: 3.0-3.5 meq/l
I honestly haven't paid much attention to the total variation in the Ca and Mg, mostly because they always test towards the high side. Typically, Ca 450 and Mg 1350.
customdusty
04/17/2009, 01:19 PM
Should I be feeding anything to the corals?
Trace element additives?
Fsurocks99
04/17/2009, 01:23 PM
Try feeding. I feed rotifeast and oysterfeast by reef nutrition every night and have seen better colors from my sps.
capture
04/17/2009, 01:45 PM
Are you having any issue with hair or other nuisance algae?
I was having the same issue and couldn't figure it out. Not a heavy bio load by any means and no detectable phosphate or nitrate levels but everything was browning and algae was getting on my nerves. I'm guessing now that my source for RO/DI wasn't quite where it should have been.
I have since started feeding more regularly, dosing elos amino acids, as well as dosing vodka and MicroBacter 7. Not all at the same time. I tried one and after no results moved to the next just for monitoring reasons.
As of now the vodka and MB7 have actually made such a drastic change I'm a bit freaked out. In a good way though. It took a while to see results but it has definitely paid off.
I'm still keeping a close eye on it to make sure everything is good. There are quite a few folks around here who are big proponents of vodka dosing and its affects. It might be something to consider.
Good luck.
customdusty
04/17/2009, 01:59 PM
The only place I get nuisance algae is in my fuge, and it only happens when my cheato grows out so much it blocks the flow and creates stagnant areas.
No nuisance algae in the tank other than the light film that gets on the glass every couple days.
The only thing I have ever added to the tank besides fish food was Lugol's Solution, which didn't seem to do anything and also DT''s Phytoplankton. I currently use neither.
I was considering going back to DTs Phyto and perhaps trying aminos. Not sure if I can or should do both.
Haven't considered vodka dosing.
gaetanocallista
04/18/2009, 10:37 AM
I think that a carbon source + bacteria + fresh fish food whipping (for sps)
make difference
I think I have the same problem. It's not a browning problem...it's a pale problem. The corals are healthy and growing but just paler than when I got them. I am curious that you are using nearly the exact same lightbulb set-up that I am.
Aquactinics constellation
4 blue plus
1 75/25
1 Aquablue
1 Aquasun
I love the look of the lighting and none of my LPS are pale but most of my sps are creamy white where they should be light brown. My photo period is only 6-7 hours and I have been feeding my fish extra (yay now i have a cyano outbreak).
Sound familiar?
Marklu
04/18/2009, 12:54 PM
I have the same problem. I have assembled a theory after having this problem for some time and reading constantly looking for relief, tell me what you guys think.
Perhaps there is an imbalance of phosphate and nitrate. What i mean by that is, there is zero nitrate present while there is still some phosphate. Aquarist have become more adept at removing nitrate, leaving their tanks completely nitrate free while phosphate remains (albeit in small amounts) leading to paler, stunted corals. I think raising nitrates could help with colors in growth in tanks such as those described in this thread.
Reefun
04/19/2009, 12:11 AM
I had the same problem with very close to the same bulb combo. I think it's the bulbs I replaced a few of my bulbs with ATI actinics(they have almost a 3rd of the par output. And in about two weeks no more light colored coral. I'm now thinking of adding one of the ATI 12k back in. I took out three. To get a good in-between color. The biggest change was in my sunset monti. It was almost white and now after a month it looks like it should.
ngn8dogg
04/19/2009, 12:28 AM
sounds like your corals are starving. try getting more fish and feeding more often
Reefun
04/19/2009, 12:37 AM
A pic would help.
The only thing that grew more when I fed more was algae. And my coral was still light colored.
trueblackpercula
04/19/2009, 08:19 AM
salinty has been an issue for me. I have been lowering it to 1.023 over time . It was at 1.030 and gas been a chalange to get it down but I see a big change in color for the better so far.
Water quality is the most important for colors then light.
Reefun
04/19/2009, 09:08 AM
What size is your tank???
And you might want to try using somthing other than lime water to help with the ALK. If you have a lot of sps it will not be able to keep up with the demand and lo ALK is more than likely the reason for your lo ph. A pic really would help us get a deter idea of what is going on in your tank.
Reefun, i am curious what your bulbs were before and after? My bulbs are a year old and I am about to get new ones.
-Ian
PS-My system is a standard 120 (4X2X2)
Reefun
04/19/2009, 01:08 PM
I've gone through a lot of bulbs$$$ playing with different combos but the bulbs I have now are
ATI Blue Plus
ATI Blue Plus
ATI actinic
ATI 12k Aqua blue special
ATI actinic
ATI actinic
Fiji Purple
ATI Blue Plus
Before that I had
ATI Actinc
ATI Blue Plus
ATI Aqua Blue
ATI Blue Plus
ATI Blue Plus
Fiji purple
ATI Blue plus
ATI Blue Plus
This was before I found out the Blue plus has almost the same par as the aqua blue. I was still able to burn coral even with all that blue light.
Before that I had
ATI actinic
ATI Blue Plus
ATI 12K
Figi Purple
GE 65k
ATI 12K
ATI Blue Plus
ATI actinic
That combo Was the best for bleaching the color out of my corals. Most of them would still grow but they had very little color. I had my sunset monti at the bottom of my tank and it turned almost white. I think I'm getting close to the ideal lighting for my tank now but may add one aqua blue back in place of one of the actinic. Also I have a lot of bulbs for a tank my size (8 bulbs on 75 Gal)
Hope that helps :)
Reefun
04/19/2009, 01:15 PM
One more thing I moved my light cycle from 10hr blue light 8hr with all to 8hr blue 5hr all This is why I'm thinking of adding one of the 12K Aqua blues back in.
Thanks Reefun! I love the look of my current setup as it's white with a good amount of blue. How did yours end up looking? The actinics must make it a bit dimmer but any less blue?
Reefun
04/19/2009, 04:44 PM
The best way I can think to describe it is a crisp blue. The actinics do drop the brightness a little. But with 8 bulbs on a 75 I don’t think that’s a bad thing with the brighter light combo it was hard to look at the tank without squinting. I used the actinics to drop the par. I think they have a par output of about 135 compared to around 310 to 330 for the rest of the bulbs I run. The actinics also make some of the colors pop a little more.
Mr.leee
04/19/2009, 07:58 PM
we had a thread in are local club about this paste coloring... some people in the club has switch out the ati aqua blue special for a uvl Actinic/Whites and got their deep colors back...
http://www.tcmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12124&highlight=pastel
Mr. Lee, it's too bad that thread has died. It would be interesting to have seen some follow-up pics from the tanks that decided to switch out bulbs. I haven't heard anyone else blame the aquablue special but in this hobby stranger things have worked so who knows.
CeeGee
04/20/2009, 12:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14862105#post14862105 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nap
Mr. Lee, it's too bad that thread has died. It would be interesting to have seen some follow-up pics from the tanks that decided to switch out bulbs. I haven't heard anyone else blame the aquablue special but in this hobby stranger things have worked so who knows.
It would be very hard IMO to blame the aquablue special when so many have great success with it. Look no further than SunnyX.
panic
04/20/2009, 12:11 PM
I know everyone is excited about t5 bulbs now, but I have not seen a better actinic than the URI SuperActinic VHO. It gives corals that extra flourescence I think you might be looking for. T5 doesn't get there. That with a Radium or XM20k makes some seriously wicked colors. Very blue though. I am happy with just the XM20ks. 0ppm ro/di water, good balanced salt, a variety of fresh food for your fish high in protein and aminos, and perfect water parameters of course will get you great color out of having top-notch health of your animals. Some speculate that slightly elevated levels (by 10% above NSW) of potassium and magnesium also help certain color saturation
chuckreef
04/20/2009, 12:48 PM
I had similar (less than desired) results for several years.
Then I learend about pests - all of them, red bugs, acro black bugs, monti black bugs & AEFW.
Once I cured the pest problems and started to quarentine everything new, the corals took care of producing their colors.
IMO, poor color or pale color is usually indicattive of stress from pests.
Brown coloration is usually indicative of environment problems.
My suggestion, Take one of your palest corals and dip it in tank water with a pich of levamisole in a white plastic bowl for a few hours, blast it a bit with a baster - See what you see come off the coral - look for pests.
Mr.leee
04/20/2009, 12:58 PM
"It would be very hard IMO to blame the aquablue special when so many have great success with it. Look no further than SunnyX."
sunnyx corals look nice but his using icecap 660,dosing, and yet if you look at his FTS the corals look pastel...(if its the camera or not)
Canadian
04/20/2009, 02:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14862808#post14862808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr.leee
"It would be very hard IMO to blame the aquablue special when so many have great success with it. Look no further than SunnyX."
sunnyx corals look nice but his using icecap 660,dosing, and yet if you look at his FTS the corals look pastel...(if its the camera or not)
No, he's using an Aquactinics Constellation light - not an IceCap 660.
ReefBum
04/20/2009, 04:38 PM
Stable parameters, especially Alk, have been key for me. I also saw better colors when I started to feed my fish more and add food for the corals such as Rotifeast and Oysterfeast. Radiums also help.
CeeGee
04/20/2009, 05:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14862808#post14862808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr.leee
"It would be very hard IMO to blame the aquablue special when so many have great success with it. Look no further than SunnyX."
sunnyx corals look nice but his using icecap 660,dosing, and yet if you look at his FTS the corals look pastel...(if its the camera or not)
What does using a icecap ballast, and dosing have to do with anything? He ran halides on his last tank and says the colors he is seeing on this one are much better. Besides that like Canadian pointed out he isn't using a icecap ballast.
Reefer08
04/20/2009, 06:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14862515#post14862515 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by panic
I know everyone is excited about t5 bulbs now, but I have not seen a better actinic than the URI SuperActinic VHO. It gives corals that extra flourescence I think you might be looking for. T5 doesn't get there. That with a Radium or XM20k makes some seriously wicked colors. Very blue though. I am happy with just the XM20ks. 0ppm ro/di water, good balanced salt, a variety of fresh food for your fish high in protein and aminos, and perfect water parameters of course will get you great color out of having top-notch health of your animals. Some speculate that slightly elevated levels (by 10% above NSW) of potassium and magnesium also help certain color saturation
VHO is old school technology. T5 beats Vhos par output significantly.
The key to getting good colors in sps is simple:
- Stablility
- Very clean water (Very low PO4 and Nitrate levels)
- Strong Water movement
- Strong Lighting
- PATIENCE!
deklin
04/20/2009, 07:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14864488#post14864488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CeeGee
What does using a icecap ballast, and dosing have to do with anything? He ran halides on his last tank and says the colors he is seeing on this one are much better.
I was wondering the same thing. Does things like having tunze pumps or an auto top-off also invalidate bulb combinations? ;)
Seems like anyone who is serious about SPS doses, it's pretty tough to get by with only water changes on an SPS dominated tank! My calcium and alkalinity levels would drop like a rock if I tried to do that for even a few days. :eek:
I've seen plenty of great looking tanks that have used the ATI aquablue in their bulb combo and I use it myself and have no problems with pale colors. It is however a high PAR bulb and photoinhibition can be a problem and lead to pale colors. I suspect your friends that got better colors when swapping out the aquablue for a lower PAR bulb like the UVL actinic may have been able to accomplish the same improvement by simply reducing the photoperiod.
Reefer08
04/20/2009, 08:50 PM
If you want great colors then get an ATI Powermodule and run a bacteria driven system.
customdusty
04/20/2009, 09:17 PM
After doing some more research and reading and going over test results from my tank, I think my corals are just starving - I think my system has very low nutrients.
For now I am increasing my feedings to see how that works. I am now feeding DTs Phyto, frozen rotifers, and Rod's food daily.
I'm going to see how things progress over the next few weeks.
In terms of lighting, I have used a few different bulb combos - although there wasn't a particular combo which delivered better tissue color on my SPS. I have used Geisemenn Pure Actinics and UVL Aquasuns in different combinations with the Blue+ and Aquablues.
Shadowramy
04/21/2009, 11:54 AM
One problem might be that you are changing your bulb configuration out too frequently.
IMO, evey time you change to a different T5 config it can take SPS sometime to adjust to the new spectrum, at least it did when I ran T5s.
As far as VHO being "old school", well that is really yes and no. For viewing I agree that nothing is going to beat the UV Super Actinic or the new 454 UV bulb, then again it depends on if you like deep colors or pastels.
As far as growth, that is a total different subject and way too many variable to make a determing factor in a single thread.
panic
04/21/2009, 02:15 PM
VHO is old school Reefer08, you are right, BUT I am talking about perceived color and not PAR. I am going by personal experience when I mention that I like to see colors from the VHO Superactinic vs. my t5 blues rather than what I have read since I have actually tried both - still use t5 and over my 180s refugium and to supplement halides on my 270 so I am definitely unbiased. I am not a fan of pastel colors on a $120 frag
customdusty
04/22/2009, 08:31 PM
I've been at the heavier feeding level for a full week now, no noticieable differences at this point. I adjusted my skimmer to skim a little more wet and have prepared a larger batch of limewater for top off so I can better control the mixture. I'm also going to be doing weekly water change now to balance the salinity and to remove excess nutrients.
I've been watching most of my sps very closely, and most seem to be exhibiting some nice recent growth. As far as coloration, the worst case color is in my green slimers which were once very bright green and the stand out pieces in my tank against the blue background. They still have the nice green polyps, but the tissue of the coral skeleton just has lost its color inentirely - just a pale fleshy tone - all of the bright green is gone completely. Despite this, they are still growing very quickly.
A couple of my other corals aren't doing well, probably because I didn't acclimate them to the new ligth fixture well and were damaged as a result. I will be fragging these in hopes of saving them. These are the only ones exhibiting some tissue loss, as opposed to just loss of tissue color.
Looks like my main challenge is not growth, nor is it polyp color/extension - it is tissue color.
We will see how the next couple of weeks work out and if any improvments occur.
Marklu
04/22/2009, 09:52 PM
I have a blue tip stag that had nice green body when i bought it but the green disappeared after a while. It has grown awesome since i've had it. So i fraged it and accidentally dropped a frag down behind the rock work. It was still getting direct light, just a lot lower in the tank. I forgot about it for a couple weeks, and today I was looking at it and the green had returned and it was extremely deep and vibrant.
So i'm going to do some experiments with frags of the same coral at different parts of the tank and see if there is a correlation between lower light and better color and then also see if growth is affected.
Also, I have green milli that lost all of its green tissue color (polyps still colorful) im going to put in the shade for a while and see what happens with the color.
customdusty
05/06/2009, 09:13 PM
Update:
It has been another 2 full weeks, and 3 since I began the increased feedings.
Growth has continued to be very good, although there has been no change yet in coloration - it remains frustratingly lousy.
I have not changed any placement of corals nor have I adjusted the photoperiod.
Just going to continue to be patient and watch things.
Tylt33
05/06/2009, 11:03 PM
Tagging along... I too have a tank of about 40 different species of brown corals. Of course, they weren't that color when they came to me. I think my issue is lighting... not enough PAR.
stricknine
05/06/2009, 11:50 PM
+1 on taggin along and no colour improvement after an 8 hour total photo period after 10 days now.
looking at the FaunaMarin Ultralith system. Any experiences?
customdusty
05/07/2009, 08:38 AM
I don't think a lack of PAR is my problem, if anything I am concerned I may have too much. When I changed lighting fixtures (not bulbs) a couple of months ago I started melting zoos and softies that were on the sandbed. I currently use the following bulb combo:
Blue +
ProColor
Blue +
Aquablue Special
Blue+
Aquablue Special
Blue +
I am considering changing out a couple of the Blue + for Pure Actinics to lower the PAR a bit and see if it helps. I will not do this until I have given enough time to determine the effect of my feeding change - maybe another 2 1/2 - 3 months.
What has puzzled me is that the polyp extension and polyp color remains fine, along with the growth - I just have no tissue color whatsoever. I will try and post a picture of this later.
potterjon
09/29/2010, 12:46 PM
I realize this is an old thread but since a year has passed, I am curious as to what you have done since then and what the resuts are?
cwegescheide
09/29/2010, 05:41 PM
if you don't have algae issues and your nitrate and phoshate is low i'd suggest feeding more and more fish.
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