GFIC trigged by unplug the pump or skimmer, newbie question on new installed GFIC

[bxz]

Hi,

I received my solana 34Gal finally after doing a month of research about reef tank, then today i started to test the tank and everything it comes, basically pump, skimmer. And i remember I need to get a GFIC receptacle, so I went to home depot and bought a 15A GFIC, swapped one on the wall where I'm planning to use for the tank. I did the test on the installation manual and everything seems ok. Then I plugged my pump and skimmer, water in tank, everything seems working fine until I tried to unplug the pump or skimmer, both trigged the GFIC. I even tried a power strip with pump and skimmer plugged in, then plug the strip to the GFIC, still it would trig the GFIC whenever I turned the strip power on/off. Then I tried a lamp, no triggering.

I know there're gonna be lots of difficulty ahead in pursuing this hobby, so here's the first one, is there something wrong with my skimmer/pump? Or it's kinda normal since these things have no switch?

thx in advance

[Sisterlimonpot]

does your pump and skimmer work fine in a normal outlet? and how did you wire the GFCI? Does the wires that you have in the wall have a good ground wire?

[Sisterlimonpot]

I would suggest getting one of these and make sure you wired things up right:
http://mitchellinstrument.com/product/receptacle-gfi-tester.html#googlebase

[stricknine]

That is not uncommon. When you plug a pump in or out you will have an arc and or loss on start up as the pump does not have an on and off switch. The pump will try to maintain the circuit for a millisecond and arch when you unplug it. With this arc, there may be a minimal current differential between the "hot" and "neutral" (in and out) conductors causing the trips. This means the GFI works!

I run into the same problem now and then, but when you hit the reset button with the pumps plugged in does it trip out again or keep running? If it keeps tripping, there may be a problem (loss) with one of the pumps.

[bxz]

Sisterlimonpot & Stricknine,

thx or the quick reply, yes, I think I wired it correctly and did the test on the manual. After it triggers and I set the reset bottom, the pump starts to pump again, so i guess it's just too sensitive. But seems not a good idea to put it under this GFIC, I don't want it stopped while I'm not at home, correct?

What do you do Stricknine? Do u connect the pump seperately on a non-GFIC?

thx

[thegrun]

Does it only trip when you physically plug or unplug it? If so, I would definitely keep everything plugged into the GFI! You mentioned a second power strip, does it have a switch that trips the GFI or do you still have to plug and unplug the power strip? Your GFI could save your life, I would try most anything to make it work with your system.

[mmedeiros2]

+1 stricknine
This is normal. It is the main reason that bathroom exhaust fans and washing machines are never tied to a gfi circuit.
Stricknine is looking into a robot to take care of these issues.

[Sisterlimonpot]

I want a robot to do everything... and I will name her Rosey:D

[stricknine]

bxz,
You are fine, and I HIGHLY suggest keeping the GFI with a .... watch out....[{(ground probe)}]. GFI will be fine with your set up, but I ran 2 ccts with 2 seperate GFCI's, one for return, 1 for flow (powerheads), but that is a new conversation all together.

You can plan the power, redundancy, and emergency a million ways, but at the end of the day they should all be GFCI protected if within 1M (3-1/2') of water, no excuse to that rule. (canadian electrical code/national electrical code!)

***Im also leaning away from my robot friend and thinking of ultimate control with the use of simple PLC's! (patent pending)

[Whys]

I have two GFCI for two outlets. Neither one has ground. They work fine and don't trip by accident.

I also have a grounding probe, but no ground. :D

A grounding probe will only protect your tank inhabitants from a little stray current. It does nothing to keep human beings safe. That is what the GFCI is for.

A surge-protector is NOT a GFCI. It will NOT save your life.

[cardiffgiant]

I've got one in my kitchen that occasionally trips when I unplug powerheads when I'm mixing salt water. I can't recall this ever happening when I do exactly the same thing with the same equipment at other GFCIs in my house (under the tank, in the shop, in the bathroom). Perhaps you have a GFCI that is particularly sensitive?

[EnglishRebel]

I have the same problem when I plug the Koralia powerhead back in after feeding. If I slam the plug in quickly then it seems to be okay. If I plug it in normally it trips the GFCI. Must be the arcing but you would think that it would only be a problem with a AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) not a GFCI which detects short to ground but there again I'm a mechanical engineer not an electrical engineer. :)

[bxz]

thegrun,

for the power strip, either switch off the strip power or unplug the pump will trigger the GFIC, plugging the power will not. Today before I left home, I turned off the power strip switch, to my surprise, it didn't trigger the GFIC. Guess it's just like what "stricknine" mentioned.

Anyway, thx everyone who helped answer my question, I'll be receiving my ro/di, reefkeep lite and some other equipment next week, hope to get a good start. BTW, I'm planning a bare bottom setup, any suggestion where to get some quality live rock? For my 34 gal tank, maybe 45lb live rock since i will not have sand bed?
Any suggestion is welcome.

[WaterKeeper]

In most tanks one is not constantly plugging or unplugging things ever couple of hours. The GFCI is sensitive and and it will trip with any type of current misdirection. That frailty is part of what makes it save your life if you are the object in the current's path.

[Paul B]

It's normal.
(electrician 40 years) :D

[WaterKeeper]

Yeap, Electrically challenged.

[marioensf]

maybe you have more than the 15 amps rating of the GFCI?
a 20 amp might hold all the equipment connected but a separate GFCI would be ideal as some one stated already

[Korrine]

Mine tripped when I pluged my K2 back in. Then last night when I turned my lights off, it tripped. Now that freaks me out. What if I put my lights on a timer and I'm not home when/if it trips while turning them on or off??? Kinda worried about that.

Any more thoughts on this important matter?

[bxz]

There's a circuit box in every house, the switches there will also trigger to protect any shorts. I'm wondering why that's not enough in the case of fish tank, is it too slow to protect human life?

[Paul B]

Because they are there to protect the wiring, not you. They will trip if you draw more than 15 or 20 amps. Much less than a half an amp can kill you.

[WaterKeeper]

Exactly, most circuit breakers are there to protect the wiring from overheating. They do not detect stay voltages or electrical arcing. The GFCI senses when current is not following the wiring circuit and is flowing to an earth ground. That is when it trips. There are also Arc fault breakers. These sense when there is an electrical arc across the wires. Arcs are too brief to overload the normal breaker but can cause a fire if flammable materials are in the path.

You can replace the common breakers in the panel with either ground or arc fault breakers or even ones that detect both. They do have a drawback in that they will sometimes trip, especially when something with a motor is started up but the that inconvenience is small compared to saving your life or home.

[birdz]

This happens to me, I think it's because when you plug-in or unplug whatever device youre doing it at an angle. Meaning while the ground prong of the plug is out of the wall while the hot and neutral legs of the plug are still making contact. The GFCI plug detects this as a ground faulting circuit and trips.

I make a conscious effort to unplug/plug-in things to the GFCI at a straight angle and a little more slowly than other stuff. Doing this makes it happen very very rarely if ever.

[Korrine]

What about just turning my lights off??? Not even unplugging them?

[Michael]

unwanted nusience tripping of gfci s can be caused by the currents which flow in protective conductors (ground cables) supplying certain circuits during normal usuage such as hi-fis, tvs, heating elements/cookers, water heaters, fridges and motors etc, in some domestic premises these items are on the same gfci as the power points which we plug our fish tanks and associated equipment into.

the best way to illiminate this risk is multipule gfci, on the circuit, as many as you can afford really, individual gfci s per each appliance if possible, there are plug in types available and these are a good idea.

the reason is basically most gfci or rcds as we call them over here may trip if the total protective current (ground cable) exceeds 50% of its rating. so for a 5ma gfci that is only 2.5 milli amps, quite low infact.

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14862871#post14862871 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael
unwanted nusience tripping of gfci s can be caused by the currents which flow in protective conductors (ground cables) supplying certain circuits during normal usuage such as hi-fis, tvs, heating elements/cookers, water heaters, fridges and motors etc, in some domestic premises these items are on the same gfci as the power points which we plug our fish tanks and associated equipment into.

the best way to illiminate this risk is multipule gfci, on the circuit, as many as you can afford really, individual gfci s per each appliance if possible, there are plug in types available and these are a good idea.

the reason is basically most gfci or rcds as we call them over here may trip if the total protective current (ground cable) exceeds 50% of its rating. so for a 5ma gfci that is only 2.5 milli amps, quite low infact.

You also have 240VAC which always worried me when I was adding outlets. 120VAC is a little more forgiving (although still packing a wallop). What do they say Paul, 'It aint the voltage its the current stupid'.
I've worked with electricians in the US who could touch the hot wire to see if there was current (don't need no frickin Fluke was the cry :p ). I mentioned that they have 240 in the UK and that quietened him down a little. :lol:

[WaterKeeper]

In some places in Europe they still use 300V D.C.. Edison was wrong. Don't touch that to your tongue. ;)

[Paul B]

Us electricians work on live wired all the time and if you know what you are doing, it is safe, (almost).
Just in the last 5 years we are not allowed to work live any more.
(too many sissies)
After years of manual work you get calouses on your fingers and calouses have a higher resistance so you don't feel shocks on your fingertips. The rest of your body, you feel it as well as anyone else.
Semi-retired analytical chemists would feel it big time :lol: