mantis help

[romsoccer12]

just a couple questions ive never had a mantis but i think there really cool i have a 29gal biocube but i wouldnt put one in there cuz its filled with emeralds and hermits so i was wondering whats a good sized tank for one of those small neon green/yellow mantis shrimp? and does it need to be acrylic what appliances do you need in the tank to keep the mantis alive? and does your water quality have to be nice?? thx for ur help in advance

[Tangalong]

Yes, they are "cool" and fun pets and definitely would not be a good idea to put in with your hermits and crabs...at least not all of them. If you get a small one, you can get a 20 gal...some would say a 10, but I think a 20 is much easier to keep stable as far as water quality. That is a big thing also, to have really good quality water...you need to keep the water changes frequent as they eat a lot of meaty foods. In my opinion, a skimmer is a must, and I use an Emperor 280 without its bio-wheel for the great water flow and intake it gives the tank. A good course quality sand and LR rubble, as well as a few good size pieces of LR for your Stomatopod to burrow/climb over, a few 2 1/2 " pieces of PVC partially buried in case she/he wants to use that as a burrow (mine does and she is a Peacock about 3") A good solid (not glass) heater..I use a stealth...and a LOW light output...High output can contribute to shell disease in some species per Dr. Roy. I also float a baseball-size chunk of Chaeto in the tank...I have put it in the Emperor's container along with LR rubble also.

Not all of this is imperative, but I like to keep my pet's tank clean and sanitary as possible as you can't see their waste and there is going to be some leavings of frozen silver sides, krill, shrimp, and squid. This is just how I do it. I have a 35 gal Hex, but want to get a 39 square since the footprint is so much bigger, but Bree is going to get bigger (I hope) and I already had the tank.

What type have you decided to get? The rest of the gang can help you lots with the different types, and at the top of this forum there is a sticky that Dr. Roy has of a lot of the types available.

If you need help finding one, we can help also. There are some in this evening's posts for free in Florida.

Good luck and I hope I have helped a little.

[Tangalong]

Romsoccer...by the way...welcome to RC...forgot I wanted to tell you what I use for lighting which is very inexpensive. I use one of those shop type round lights and put in a spiral kitchen light. The lamps come with a clamp. Sometimes I put the 15 watt Actinic on the tank just because I like the color and look and it isn't really bright. Your Stomatopod will appreciate one of the hermits occassionally for his health and for exercising his rapts.

[bheld]

I've always heard that mantids could basically live in mud puddles and survive (don't require pristine water conditions) but of course you should keep it as clean as possible for the animals sake. You also aren't going to want powerful lights. Mantids are prone to shell disease and high wattage lights aren't great for their shells. I have a 16w light on my 29 gallon. It wont grow coral but works great for a mantis :)

[Tangalong]

bheld, I don't know who told you that, but Stomatopids are inverts, and they are sensitive to water quality and changes in chemistry. I wouldn't want to try dirty water myself. Would rather stay on the safe side, but I'm a clean freak with my fish. It could get pretty smelly in the tank with all the old broken shells and pieces of dead fish, etc. YUK!!! I have 2 blue-tip Damsels living with mine to help eat the leftovers !!!

[micstarz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941158#post14941158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheld
I've always heard that mantids could basically live in mud puddles and survive (don't require pristine water conditions) but of course you should keep it as clean as possible for the animals sake. You also aren't going to want powerful lights. Mantids are prone to shell disease and high wattage lights aren't great for their shells. I have a 16w light on my 29 gallon. It wont grow coral but works great for a mantis :)

smh.

[romsoccer12]

would the smallest type of mantis kill an emerald?

[Tangalong]

I would say it depends on the size...don't Emeralds have big pinchers? You wouldn't want your pet injured. I had some Emeralds a few years ago and they were mean to my other shrimp and small fish. Also they got big. I guess they were the same kind...don't really know for sure.

[romsoccer12]

emeralds pinch is very weak mine is about the size of a half dollar. I was trying to give it some mysis when it pinched my finger(didnt hurt at all) and there not that fast i think it would do fine with a small mantis

[Tangalong]

double post cannot delete

[Tangalong]

I didn't know that about them. You might not want to put him in with a Mantis then...he would probably get eaten. Have you seen that video on U-tube of the big crab someone put in with a Mantis? It was pretty active...when a Mantis is determined to get something, he usually does. They are strong also. I target feed mine with a bamboo skewer and sometimes a pair of tongs...you can really feel their power when they are pulling the food off the skewer.

I meant to tell you also, that Dr. Roy says that their color is sometimes influenced by the colors of the surrounding habitat...grasses, sand, rocks...so that pretty yellow or green color may change when they molt.

I bet you are getting excited about getting one..I know I was.

[romsoccer12]

i do like the emerald but would be mad if it died he just helps clean up all the algae everywhere what can take its place?

[Tangalong]

Wellllllllllll...............nothing.lol...anything that eats algae will be fair game for a mantis, as they eat snails, hermits, shrimp, crab, basically anything they can catch. If you keep them well-fed on frozen foods, and they can get an occassional crab, etc...they may not eat all of them...

Actually you might put a couple of hardy, fast fish in with it. My Mantis doesn't bother the Damsels, but they don't eat algae either. I wouldn't want to put an expensive fish in with them, or one that sleeps low and moves slow. If you use LR and also LR rubble in your filter, along with a ball of Chaetomorpha, you shouldn't have a problem with algae...especially with low light. I don't get any. Another tank might be in order here so you don't have to worry about your crabs and things. Stomatopods just do what is natural to them, and eating those things is what they do.

[Koshmar]

As far as emeralds go, you would be suprised what a mantis can take down. My N. wennerae just took down a sally lightfoot that was a little bigger than he was a few weeks ago. Male emerald crabs have sharp pinchers, the females have blunt claws. If you are getting a 1/2 inch or 1 inch mantis then the crabs may pose a threat to the mantis, but when the mantis gets around 1 1/2 to 2 inches the tables are turned.
The neon green/yellow ones you are seeing are probably N. wennerae or P. ciliata. Smasher and spearer respectively, both are fairly active and great to keep. I would recommend a twenty gallon for either because both like to explore from what I have heard from P. ciliata keepers and my experience with N. wennerae.
I've gotten away without a skimmer for a few months now (the pump started doing wierd things), so I just tossed it out. I have Caulerpa prolifera and chaeto in my main tanks, which I attribute to nothing dying. I also do about 10%-20% water changes weekly. Personally, if I were you I would go with a skimmer just to be safe.
If you are getting a wennerae or ciliata though, you can use turbo snails as algae control crew. They won't be able to bash the shell in. Beware though, Mexican turbos are bulldozers, plus they might have the snail flu so make sure you quarantine them first.

[stardrop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941158#post14941158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheld
You also aren't going to want powerful lights. Mantids are prone to shell disease and high wattage lights aren't great for their shells. I have a 16w light on my 29 gallon. It wont grow coral but works great for a mantis :)

I haven't heard of this before. I have a metal halide on my 12g nano. Is this going to cause problems for my Gonodactylaceus ternatensis?

Just got him on Friday and he seems to be settling in well. Took to an already existing cave in the LR.

[351winsor]

If im not mistaken shell disease only affects the largest of Odontodactylus sp. Mainly Odontodactylus scyllarus or the peacock mantis. Im allmost 100% sure that there is another sp. that is also affected by shell disease, i just can think of what it is right now.

[Fuegan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14940751#post14940751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangalong
If you get a small one, you can get a 20 gal...some would say a 10, but I think a 20 is much easier to keep stable as far as water quality. That is a big thing also, to have really good quality water...you need to keep the water changes frequent as they eat a lot of meaty foods. I

I havent done a water change for at least 12 months. I only add ro/di for evaporation and remove macro algae when it starts annoying me. My salinity does fluctuate from 1.024 - 1.027 pretty much every day but all my parameters are fantastic considering I havent added salt water for so long... I have GSP and Zoanthids which are growing / multiplying like crazy, my h. stoliura is very active and happy.

While mantis eat meaty foods your problem with water quality is only going to be severe if you over feed. I have found that my mantis will take as much food as it is given and hoard it up in his burrow which made me target feed him much smaller portions.

With all that said, I agree with your assessment on a bigger vs smaller aquarium. If I did not add for evaporation every day then id be in big trouble in just a couple of days. I am hoping to upgrade to a larger aquarium in the near future.

[romsoccer12]

if i wanted a cuc i would prolly get a turbo cuz i have a 29 gal (with a skimmer) and 1 or 2 would be good. Ive never heard of a snail disease i only thought when they die they release toxins so you should take them out and if i only have 1 tank how do i qt things? FW? and last question is could i keep nassarius snails with the mantis? they come out of the sand somtimes but only once in a while when i feed and the mantis would probably be occupied when im feeding him and wouldnt bother the nassarius snails but still asking to make sure. Thx for all the help

[Tangalong]

The mantis will definitely find the nassarius snails. I just recently heard about snails carrying disease also, so am not going to get any more Turbo's. They are always falling over anyway.

Water changes are very necessary for anything you keep...how else are they going to get the trace mineral they need to survive? I don't think water salinity fluctuating so much is very good for them either. Of all the things I have read on keeping water quality good is frequent and consistant water changes. I trust the experts and have had good luck myself doing this. It doesn't take very long and the fish and things seem to always enjoy the fresh water. I don't have an answer to how fish can stay healthy without them.

Stardrop...I would check the sticky at the beginning of these threads of Dr. Roys and find out what depth your Mantis inhabits. If it is deep, then the Halides I think will probably be a problem. and the heat could cause a problem with some, especially in a smaller tank. Not really a lot of knowledge on lighting though, so I'd check around with the gang.

[Tangalong]

romsoccer, sorry, forgot your question on QT. You can use any clean, non-toxic rubbermaid container that is foodsafe for one. Also, be very careful using FW...it will kill your invertabrates...when doing topoffs, be careful to pour it through your filter or around the sides so it doesn't directly hit them. This mostly concerns giving Fresh Water baths, though, but wanted to inform you so you know for future use.

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask any question you want. And keep us informed of your progress !!!

[romsoccer12]

i will and im gunu try to get a nice camera for some pics of my progress idk about getting the mantis though i love all the invertibrates to much to see them all die but one day i may get a small 10 or 15 gallon for one.

[Tangalong]

Me too !!! I love my Cleaner Shrimp...I have 2 and they are attempting to keep eggs and the other guys are stealing them, so I am going to have to put them in a separate tank for a while. My first try at fry. Hope we both have success :)

[Fuegan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14952002#post14952002 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangalong


Water changes are very necessary for anything you keep...how else are they going to get the trace mineral they need to survive? I don't think water salinity fluctuating so much is very good for them either. Of all the things I have read on keeping water quality good is frequent and consistant water changes. I trust the experts and have had good luck myself doing this. It doesn't take very long and the fish and things seem to always enjoy the fresh water. I don't have an answer to how fish can stay healthy without them.


Mate. Im not changing something that isnt broken. Ive kept my mantis happy for more than two years with this method. I am showing huge growth in all my corals including two hitch hiker SPS. My water quality is fantastic. .003 of a swing in a 24 hours period is not a lot and since my results show that what I am doing is working for me id be an idiot to change my methods.

I dont recommend doing things my way, I dont promise the same results if you do nor do I arbitrarily dismiss something that has been working for someone because some "expert" on the intertubez says thats how it must be done and youre doomed to failure if you dont. Ive been around this hobby for long enough to see that there is no hard and fast rule for anything.

[Fuegan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14951644#post14951644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by romsoccer12
could i keep nassarius snails with the mantis? they come out of the sand somtimes but only once in a while

My mantis digs up sandbed clams and nassarius snails. I dont know how he knows they are there but he does, ive also had him eat hitch hiker clams / mussels / oysters right off the live rock.

My rule is, dont put anything into his tank that I dont want him checking out and probably eating when he feels like it.

He does seem to leave bumblebee snails alone though, which I have heard from other people as well.

[Koshmar]

Oh, I was making a sarcastic remark when I referred to snail disease.... Swine flu (snail flu).....Mexican turbos....Yeah, never mind.
My chiragra knows where nass snails are and frequently digs them up out of nowhere.

[Tangalong]

Fuegan...not meaning to change yours either...just want to know how the iodine/etc is replaced without fresh SW??? It has been my quest this past year to study and learn about water quality since a bad storm caused my entire tank to collapse and lost most of the inhabitants. I just want to understand water chemistry as much as possible. Maybe this would be a good question for Mr. Randy. He is the best and great at explaining things.

Koshmar...are you really teasing or not? I really did hear that snails carry disease. You dickens:)

[Fuegan]

I dose for trace elements, calcium and iodine when my tests show that I need it. Usually twice per month at most.

I remove a good sized amount of macro algae out of my aquarium and I only feed the mantis a small amount of mysis and clams / mussels once to twice a week.

I cant get over the growth on my green star polyps. Maybe that also has something to do with the water quality.

[Tangalong]

That makes a huge difference if you are adding and testing....you didn't say that before...Yes, you could have good quality with what you are doing along with your algae.