Increasing alkalinity + using a doser with bulk reef two part

[erbio]

I have a 90 gallon reef tank. I have quite a few sps corals. I have a few soft corals (green star polyps, mushrooms and encrusting gorgonian)

I have been testing the waters alkalinity for a month now. It takes about 10 - 11 drops for the vial to go from blue to yellow. It is an Elos Alkalinity test kit.

The test kit instructions state:
"Each drop of reagent corresponds to one degree of hardness. The total number of drops used equals the total hardness of the solution in dKH - for example 8 drops = 4dKH."

This statement is contradicting is it not?

Anyway, I want to keep an alkalinity of 7 - 7.5 dKH.

I purchased a two part solution - the high pH type from bulk reef supply:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Two-Part-Kits/c52/p267/The-Total-Two-Part-Package/product_info.html

I've been dosing 1ml of alk a day and the number of drops it takes to get from blue/cyan to yellow doesn't change. It usually takes 10 - 11.

I suspect this is because my livestock are rapidly using it. I have quite a bit of coralline algae growth as well.

A little bit about my tank:
I'm running the complete ZeoVit system and the coral coloration is fantastic.

I have the following fish:
5 bartlet anthias.
1 convict tang
1 false percula clown

So my question is - What do I need to do to get my alkalinity 7 - 7.5 dKH. Once I'm at that point I plan to dial in my aquamedic doser for two part (if that's a good idea). I have the triple doser version:
http://www.f3images.com/IMD/aquarium_images/pump_aqua_medic_reef_doser.jpg


Thanks a lot!

[erbio]

Here is a pic of my green star polyps. More pics coming.
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2231/img0643k.jpg

[erbio]

I am using Recipe 1 from bulk reef supply which "significantly increases the pH" so I want to be careful.

BRS's calculator suggested 128.5 ml; 4.3 fl oz; 25.7 tsp of Recipe 1 in order to get my alkalinity to 7.5dKH from 5.5dKH

[HighlandReefer]

erbio,

Yes, you have a contradicting statement being made.

I am not familiar with Elos Alkalinity test kits. In some cases, the test kit manufacturer will provide an option for increasing your accuracy of the alk. kit by increasing the amount of reagents and/or tank water that you add. In this case, 1 drop of reagent will equal 1/2 a dkH unit. If you use the kit in the normal manor, then 1 drop will equal 1.0 dKH unit. You need to get this figured out before you make any adjustments to your alkalinity.

[erbio]

Well on the back of the instructions it has simple instructions which shows that "1 drop = 0,5 KH", does that help?

[HighlandReefer]

Well, if I understand what you are stating, then your alk. = around 5.5 dKH? This would mean that you will want to use the Reef Chemistry Calculator to slowly increase your alkalinity above 7.0 dKH. Using the high pH two part (baked baking soda) you do not want to increase your pH by more than 0.2 per dose.

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

I would feel better if you get some input from actual users of the Elos Alk. Test Kit you are using, before you do this. Just to make sure that you are correct. You might contact the manufacturer to confirm this. :D

[erbio]

Highland Reefer, please recommend an alkalinity test kit. I'll buy it and update this thread when I receive it. I don't want to start dosing until I am confident about the alkalinity reading but I also don't want the alkalinity to get too low and harm the tank.

[builderguy]

I use the Elos kit, and yes each drop = 0.5 dKh. It's an accurate test otherwise.

It sounds like you are dosing the proper "maintenance dose", but that will not raise your levels, only maintain them. You need to add additional solution (above that level - do it by hand and spread it out over time) to get to the desired level, then you can go back to your current "maintenance daily level"

[erbio]

Alright, I'll dose a little more than usual and see if I get any increaase.

Here's some more pics:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5999/img0683o.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6195/img0691z.jpg

[TellyFish]

As mentioned, do be careful in raising your ALK due to the associated raise in PH.

I wanted to bump up my ALK not too long ago and made an extra dose. My PH jumped from 8.1 to 8.5 in a very short period of time. Although all my SPS went unaffected, my 3 year old Potter's angel could not stand the change. All other fish were OK, but he died the next day.

Dose wisely.

[erbio]

That's unfortunate. Is there anything we can do to the mixture to prevent the pH spike? I should have gone with the other recipe huh?

[bertoni]

Baking soda will raise the alkalinity without changing pH very much. It is fine to use for large changes. Just dissolve in RO/DI and dose.

[erbio]

How much baking soda should I add to my 90 gallon aquarium? How big of a change in dKH is safe in one day?

[HighlandReefer]

You can use the Reef Chemistry Calculator to determine the total amount necessary to raise your alkalinity.

It is recommended to raise your alk. with baking soda by no more than 2.0 dKH increments. The baked baking soda may be less, you will have to make sure that it does not raise your pH by more than 0.2 increments.

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

[erbio]

OK the calc recommends 20.4 grams, approx 4.3 tsp, or 0.7 oz baking soda to get my alk to 7.5

How should I dose this? I have a calibrated pH probe on my aqua controller. I'm just not sure how long it will/should take to dose this.

[HighlandReefer]

I would try dosing the amount of baked baking soda for increasing your alk. by 1.0 dKH first and see how that effects your pH. If that does not increase your pH by too much than I would add the same amount about 1/2 hour later. Do this everyday until you reach your goal.

[HighlandReefer]

If you are using baking soda (I missed that), then you can raise the amount it takes to raise the alk. 2.0 dKH without any issues. ;)

Edit: You can plug into the calculator, for example 10 for the current reading and then the final desired level 12 (2.0 dKH) and dose this amount directly without fear.

[erbio]

You can plug into the calculator, for example 10 for the current reading and then the final desired level 12 (2.0 dKH) and dose this amount directly without fear.

Very nice. I put 4.3 tsp into a snapple bottle (rinsed of course) with some RO water and shook it up.

I then dosed a couple ml and saw virtually no changes in pH (according to my AC3)

But just to confirm - it will be safe to dose it all correct? 4.3tsp is what the site recommended to get my 90 gal tank from an alk of 5.5 to an alk of 7.5 dkH

That's actually easier than anything else if I'm able to increase it by 2dkh that fast.

[erbio]

Alright, I've dosed the amount. I'll leave it alone for a while and then test the alkalinity.

I can't believe it was this easy with baking soda.

What's the maximum dKH that can be increased daily?

[bertoni]

I don't think there's any known limit, other than being careful about pH effects when using certain supplements. Some animals, especially seem to have problems with higher dKH levels, especially when dosing a carbon supplement, so I'd be careful in that regard.

[erbio]

The alkalinity is now 7.5 - it is right on! It took exactly 15 drops for the vial to go from cyan to yellow. That calculator is pretty genius.

We'll this problem is solved. Now I know exactly what to do from now on.

[erbio]

Well that really sucks. My 1+ year old convict tang is laying on his side, still breathing. All that has changed was the alkalinity that was supposed to be safe. Is there anything I can do to save him? I don't think placing him in new water is going to help him.

The pH has been consistent since I dosed it so I don't know what's up.

[HighlandReefer]

If you have good circulation in your tank, then the baking soda should have dispersed fairly quickly. Perhaps increasing water circulation pointed at the surface will help draw in more oxygen if your fish is gasping for air. Adding an air stone may help also. :(

FWIW, I have added enough baking soda in my sump at one time to increase my dKH by 4.0. The 2.0 dkH is what is recommend in many articles I have read also. I am referring to baking soda and not baked baking soda.

[HighlandReefer]

Another thing, If there were any white solids that dropped to the bottom of your tank (undissolved baking soda), I would stir it up to get it to dissolve as quickly as possible. When you mix the baking soda in rodi water, make sure you use enough rodi to completely dissolve all the baking soda.

[bertoni]

I don't think the baking soda was the issue, so it could be a coincidence. My fish never showed any signs of trouble with a dose of baking soda. Hmm, strange.

[erbio]

The fish was over a year old, dang. I haven't done anything else to the tank since adding the baking soda. I added it to the sump where it most definitely was mixed. The baking soda was 100% dissolved because I shook it up in a snapple bottle. The water became clear and then I added it to the tank a few minutes later. It was a new box of baking soda too.

Anyway, all other fish do not show any stress. The convict tang was about 4in and was not breathing heavy. He was just laying on his side breathing normally.

He's dead now though unfortunately. All other fish are fine. I'm glad my rock work is the way it is. He was easy to pull out.

Anyway, on to fixing my magnesium:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14960195#post14960195

[bertoni]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that he's gone. I don't know what happened.

[HighlandReefer]

Erbio,

I am sorry to hear your fish died. :(

This has me concerned now. I know of quite a few hobbyists who have followed the advice given by all these different sources without problems, by increasing their alk. in only 2.0 increments. Many hobbyists including myself have increase their alk. by more than the 2.0 dKH amount in one dose without any visible problems.

When it comes to fish suddenly dieing and assuming that the alk. increase did not cause your fish's death, then the most likely culprits would be:

1) An increase in ammonia from to much food or something dieing in your tank.

2) An sudden change of your systems salinity (possibly at water change time) greater than 0.002. For example a sudden increase in salinity from 1.024 - 1.027 or vise versa.

3) A sudden change in pH greater than 0.2.

4) Possible fish disease, particularly internal parasites which may not be visibly noticed by the hobbyist.

Perhaps if the fish was already in poor health from some of the above, then the alk increase proved to much for him? :confused:

[erbio]

Nevermind. All is okay, I must push on...

[chippy70]

Yes I have been dosing Baking Soda now for two weeks. I have not seen any issues at all in using Baking Soda

I too was concerned using this product but i can assure you it works fine. I have been dosing for my 800lt system by using 10lt of RO water with approx 10 teaspons with no adverse affect on the tank mates.

As my PH was low, I baked it at 180 for one hour. This has risen my PH from 7.8-7.9 to 8.2-8.3.

Great Stuff:)

[HighlandReefer]

erbio,

Good luck with your future parameter changes. :thumbsup: