30$ diy metal halides?

[ctenophors rule]

i was cruzing the home depot today and i spotted metal halide lighting fixtures (made for use around water)

for 15 dollars (and these were for 2 300 watt bulbs!)

can these be used in aquaria?

the box said halogen bulb, but it looked exactly like the hqi double ended metal halides.

will normal aquarium bulbs work with these?

if i wanted to lower the cost of bulbs could i do half aquarium metal halides, and half home depot el cheepo 6500k day lights?

if not what corals grow best under 6500k lighting?

would any hard corals ? say, sps?

or is it only xenias and kenya tree and the like?

thanks for your replies, they are all greatly valued!

[mustang51js]

the hd halogen fixtures might put out more heat than a mh.Plus your electric bill would be up there with 600 watts from 2 light. as far as corals im not sure but usually 6500k are used in fuge lighting for macroalgae

[ctenophors rule]

so if the elctric bill would be to high, what if we used the same fixtures with lower watt lights- say 150?

or what if we used multiple 150 watt fixtures?

thanks

[mustang51js]

it should work but like i said before im not sure what you can keep with 6500k, btw what size tank do you have

[ctenophors rule]

actualy i am making plans for an aquaculture club, we are applying for a 500 dollar grant.

i know it isn't much, that is why i was looking into the el cheepos.

we may just end up breeding something cheeper.

the whole point is it needs to be feasable, the problem is, until we jump into it we wnt know if our choice is making or loosing money.

[stripevt]

It is possible just google brinks diy mh. I think total cost of like 70 or a cheap option would be fishneedit.com I have there T5 and I am pleased with them

[bebitte70]

You forgot that you need a ballast to run a mh light. They come in 70, 150, 175, 250 and 400W in aquaria. You absolutely need one to run the lights and you can't put a 150W ballast with 2 lights. One light per ballast and matched to the bulb.

[PapaKlix]

i used HD MH lights on a tank i set up about 9 years ago, back when color temps weren't available much higher than they were in HD. i thought it was a foolproof plan, then the ballast (mounted under the stand) caused an electrical fire. the tank died and i have icecaps running aquarium grade MH pendants on my new tank.

could they work? maybe. i'm not going to risk it over a few hundred $$.

[mustang51js]

i think the lights he's talking about are halogen lights allmost like work lights(yellow ones).

[troylee]

im sure they will work and 6500k will grow corals all day long but the colors would be pretty blah.......from my understanding on it.....all your sps if they make the trip would be a pale color or brown pretty ugly imo.

[cody6766]

use those fixtures to hold MH bulbs and source some ballasts. A 300w halogen fixture will hold a 70w MH bulb. I built my 70w retrofit for about $60 after all the parts. Granted, I bought my ballast used and bought the bulb on ebay. You could probably do the same for $100-125 using new ballast and better bulbs.

[barfish]

6500 k bulbs will actually grow corals great but they will be brown. 10k 12 k is where ur optimal growth and color would be.

[impur]

I also built a 70w MH out of one of those fixtures. I got the ballast off ebay used for around $20, the bulb was $8 off ebay, the fixture was $10, and the extension cord i used was $7.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/DIY/P6030160.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/DIY/P6060189.jpg

I drilled holes for more airflow

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/DIY/P6030163.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/DIY/P6220034.jpg

[birdman204]

The unit you are referring to may be suitable to house a lighting fixture.
Things to take into consideration.
Bulb color temp. Don't assume daylight means 6500K.
Ballast output. Can it fire other bulbs?

As the poster above has done, I used a 150W security spotlight to retro a 70W halide into it.
I used a ballast from ebay and a bulb from hello-lights.
Total cost was around $100 all said and done. It is mounted on my desk hutch above one of my nanos.

[mustang51js]

you could buy one of these instead
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100626328

[ctenophors rule]

thanks guys.

so just to clarify the corals that grow will look brown, but if i put them under a higher spectrum light they will return their bright flashy colors instantly right?

thank you so much for the information.

your right i assumed that the balast would be included with the fixtures, but i am sure that a few extra bucks for the balast will be fine.

it the crazy prices you find on aquarium websites, 600+ dollars for 500 watts of lighting.

or 100+ diy.

[troylee]

they take awhile to color up nicely nothing is instant in this hobby but diasaster.....

[ctenophors rule]

but the fact that they were discolored doesn't relate to a lack of health, correct?

[chevellesteve]

you can also use MH plant grow setup from an hydroponics shop just replace the bulb with the right color spectrum and your good to go:)

[birdman204]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14964780#post14964780 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
but the fact that they were discolored doesn't relate to a lack of health, correct?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Health is in the eye of the Vet/Doctor.

Not all brown corals are unhealthy.
Brown looks different under different spectrums.

Perfect example, I gave a P. Ryukensis to a buddy with a solar lit tank (approx 6500). The thing looks yellowish/light blue in his pictures, but was deep blue under my radiums.
The coral has DEFINATE visible growth since he's acquired it so one cannot say that it is unhealthy, it just may not conform to "everyone's" standard of beauty.

[bristle]

Here is a cheapy way of doing it...

Get that fixture, get an ebay MH bulb, get a ballast (70W). It will probably be less than $100.

Option two would be to find someone's used pendant.

[ctenophors rule]

ok thanks guys.

we went over it, and here is where we are at.

we will get a few home depot fixtures for 150 watt lights.

then we will search for balasts (cheap)

we already have tanks and water.

all pumps.

and most of the lights (for frags anyway)

thanks for all the help, you guys saved us a lot of trouble and time.

[impur]

You might also call around to local electricians about the 70w ballast. I have a friend who found one locally that way for real cheap like 10 bucks. It was just sitting in their warehouse collecting dust.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14968587#post14968587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by birdman204
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Health is in the eye of the Vet/Doctor.

Not all brown corals are unhealthy.
Brown looks different under different spectrums.

Perfect example, I gave a P. Ryukensis to a buddy with a solar lit tank (approx 6500). The thing looks yellowish/light blue in his pictures, but was deep blue under my radiums.
The coral has DEFINATE visible growth since he's acquired it so one cannot say that it is unhealthy, it just may not conform to "everyone's" standard of beauty.

Sunlight is 5500K. When discussing spectrum and lamps for coral health and such, it is the Photosynthetic Active Radiation that needs to be considered. (PAR) With spikes in the blue range (dropping with the green-- why plants are green it is reflected) and spike in the yellow-orange range then dropping off sharply again. (approximate)

When considering coral health, lighting is the last place to try and save a buck. JMUHO

Jim

[redfishsc]

What I'm not sure anyone has mentioned is the ability of a 6500K halogen to put out enough PAR for corals.

I'm pretty sure that halogens will not even come close to putting out the same amount of PAR, watt for watt, that MH will.


They may look bright as heck to us, but to a chloroplast, it's a different story.


I would avoid the halogens, myself.

If you are looking for cheaper 6500K lighting, look up the Sunlight Supply "New Wave" T5 HO unit. They are dirt cheap, have individual reflectors (they are NOT parabolic but are OK), and most placed you order it from will sell you GE 6500K T5HO bulbs for around $13.

I am running a New Wave 4X24 over a frag tank and it's a pretty good light for what I paid for it.

The T5 will most likely put out a LOT more PAR than a halogen bulb of a similar wattage.


Run cooler, at that.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14971045#post14971045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redfishsc
What I'm not sure anyone has mentioned is the ability of a 6500K halogen to put out enough PAR for corals.

I'm pretty sure that halogens will not even come close to putting out the same amount of PAR, watt for watt, that MH will.


They may look bright as heck to us, but to a chloroplast, it's a different story.


I would avoid the halogens, myself.

If you are looking for cheaper 6500K lighting, look up the Sunlight Supply "New Wave" T5 HO unit. They are dirt cheap, have individual reflectors (they are NOT parabolic but are OK), and most placed you order it from will sell you GE 6500K T5HO bulbs for around $13.

I am running a New Wave 4X24 over a frag tank and it's a pretty good light for what I paid for it.

The T5 will most likely put out a LOT more PAR than a halogen bulb of a similar wattage.


Run cooler, at that.

Thank you for completing my thoughts. MH spectrum is also limited, and this is the reason for supplementation with T5 or T8 or T12. T5 currently has the best spectrum availability in terms of flexibility. And gives more than enough bang for the buck.

Jim

[redfishsc]

I'm a big fan of T5s, for those very reasons (plus, bulb choices are incredible, they last a solid year, use great reflectors, fun fairly cool, bulb cost is OK, and just plain look nice).


The one downer is that I have always preferred the shimmer of MH lights :(

[PapaKlix]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14964267#post14964267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
thanks guys.

so just to clarify the corals that grow will look brown, but if i put them under a higher spectrum light they will return their bright flashy colors instantly right?

thank you so much for the information.

your right i assumed that the balast would be included with the fixtures, but i am sure that a few extra bucks for the balast will be fine.

it the crazy prices you find on aquarium websites, 600+ dollars for 500 watts of lighting.

or 100+ diy.

you can get a used 250w pendant with icecap ballast for $200 or less. $100 is just not worth all the hassle/crappy color temp IMO.

[stripevt]

I am just jumping in this.... Dont know if I am wrong here.... But I believe that he thought he could get this halogen fixture and put and mh in it and it work.... With out the knowing of needing mods to make it work.... I think he knows the halogen bulbs wont work or will but with heat and color issues.... But with all said this is a good discussion on what lights are

[redfishsc]

stripevt, now that you mention it, I reread the first post and I think he was wanting to use both MH and halogens in tandem.


I still think for good 6500K lighting "bang for the buck" it's hard to beat T5.


The other option if someone doesn't mind forking out the money is the legendary Iwasaki 6500K mogul base 250-watt lamp that actually runs best on a Mercury Vapor 250-watt ballast. It's been shown to blow the doors off of same-wattage MH bulbs, especially if driven by a Mercury Vapor ballast (H37?). This is 6500K at it's best! (well, almost, I think the sun has it beat by a few lumens ;) )

[ctenophors rule]

i think i am understanding something now.

if i were to buy 20,000k mh bulbs, they wouldn't work in the halogen fixtures.?

the people at home depot said they would.....

ok, well i guess i will have to look for a pendant.

i can at least use the halogens on green algae, right?

i will look into the t5's you showed me as well.

thanks guys

btw, what modifications would be needed to make the halogen fixtures work for coral, and does home depot like stores sell metal halide fixtures?

[ctenophors rule]

this may seem like a newb question, but do t5's need a balast?

[uncleof6]

Yes. And the ballast should be a programmed/rapid start ballast, not an instant start.

Jim

[ctenophors rule]

ok, we are looking into both options.

just called a few local electronic suppliers, the cheapest balast was 75$ used.

i think i will take my chances with aquarist

[BeanAnimal]

You will be MUCH better off buying well engineered pendants made for aquarium use. A well designed reflector will put much more light into the tank instead of wasting it (think about your electric bill). Doing something "on the cheap" does not always save real world money :)

The folks at HD have no clue what they are talking about with regard to this subject. You can't just stuff a MH bulb into a halgon fixture.

Reef Optix III pendents are in teh $120 neighborhood and will do a much better job. Search in the used equipment forum to find used ballasts and/or fixtures.

[ctenophors rule]

thats what i am doing for right now.

i am also looking into building my own fixtures.

i saw something where you can get a bare bones socket and wiring, place the bulb, hang it, and then kjust build something arround that.

[bristle]

http://www.ballastwise.com/item.asp?PID=112&FID=17&level=1

$30 for a 70W MH ballast.

[ctenophors rule]

thanks, that is a great site. good prices

[redfishsc]

I think there is still some confusion around here about what to do with the halogen lights, if you still want to try that.


Some of the halogen lights will actually accept a MH bulb--- but I've read conflicting reports of what halogen socket will take a 70W bulb and a 150W bulb.


Some folks have had to use the dremel to modify the light socket in the halogen light.


Once you have figured out which halogen light to use with what wattage MH bulb, you then have to buy a ballast. The halogen light will IN NO WAY drive a MH bulb. To attempt that would be a fire hazard, it would seem.


Then you have to figure out how to mount the blasted thing over your tank, and perhaps even fan cool it if needed.



All that being said, check out Craigslist.com for used lights! Life will be much easier for you if you just buy something already done!

[mandm25254]

Im sorry i only skimmed this thread so i don't know if this has been said, but to my readings it's a wast of money. i remember reading about this, the PAR rating for thos are so bad almost to the point where coral will not grow.

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14980552#post14980552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
i think i am understanding something now.

if i were to buy 20,000k mh bulbs, they wouldn't work in the halogen fixtures.?

the people at home depot said they would.....

ok, well i guess i will have to look for a pendant.

i can at least use the halogens on green algae, right?

i will look into the t5's you showed me as well.

thanks guys

btw, what modifications would be needed to make the halogen fixtures work for coral, and does home depot like stores sell metal halide fixtures?

Correct, the MH bulbs may fit the socket in the halogen fixture, but you also need a ballast to fire the MH bulb. The fixture will not work by just adding a MH bulb. Period.

I've seen a couple projects that turned out nice for portable, or temporary setups. The problem is the reflectors. A lot of the fixtures you see have a piece of aluminum with a dull brushed finish, hardly an efficient reflective surface. Further, the design of the reflector will be much less than optimal, reducing efficiency even more. A fixture with a specifically, and well designed reflector may increase the light output several fold over such an inefficient design reducing the need for additional fixtures.

Halogens are simply a version of an incandescent light bulb. They're bright to our eyes, use a lot of juice, and put off a ton of heat. The color temp is no where near 6500K. For growing coral or even green algae they're useless.

Tim

[impur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14989902#post14989902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mandm25254
Im sorry i only skimmed this thread so i don't know if this has been said, but to my readings it's a wast of money. i remember reading about this, the PAR rating for thos are so bad almost to the point where coral will not grow.

I've had no problem growing and coloring up SPS under my 70 DIY MH.

These were in QT for AEFW. Almost all of the damaged tissue is grown back and most are growing as you can see. These pics were a week after the final dip so the color has not returned yet...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/sps/6-15-08/100_1689.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/sps/6-15-08/100_1692.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/sps/6-15-08/100_1683.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/sps/6-15-08/100_1686.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/impur/sps/6-15-08/100_1687.jpg