No Fry from Cleaner Shrimp Survive?

[Tangalong]

I read a few pages further down in this forum that the larvae don't survive?? Can someone please explain the reason or direct me to a site that can tell me more? I have been cycling a 10 gallon to put my two Cleaners in that are both starting eggs to protect them from the other fish in my 75. They keep pushing them over to make them release the eggs. This is sad. I had hopes too.

Neon Gobies I want to do also and know they have been done. What is the difference? I know Stomatopods haven't been successfully reared except in a rare instance or two. Is the problem with Cleaners the same thing?

Any information will be greatly appreciated as I want to learn.

[greenbean36191]

The big problem with cleaners is that they have a very long (6-8 months) planktonic stage that is very fragile and they're hard to feed. Bumping into tank walls or even getting hit by bubbles is enough to mangle them. There also seems to be something missing in the diets people have tried feeding them, so even the ones that haven't been beaten up by collisions tend to die off in droves during molts.

Bottom line is you have to keep them suspended in the water without touching anything for about 8 months and feed them something that isn't known yet, but not supplied by typical larval foods. That means lots of work for little return, so there aren't a whole lot of people working on the issue.

[Tangalong]

Greenbean, thank you so very much. And how disappointing is this? I am too old, I guess to even try. I will keep the tank going and put them in it during the time they are carrying the eggs, though, so the other fish won't hurt them. The gold-headed sleeper rammed them hard.

I guess I will go on a search to try to find some Gobiosoma Oceanops and try my luck with them. I love those little Gobies and just lost one I got from NC. He was about 1/2 inch long is all, and I think he went into the Watchman Goby's mouth, and no LFS around here can even get them. Even Quality Marine is having problems along with the other suppliers. I don't know if there is a problem affecting the fish or what. At least if I was successful I would have some buyers !!! LOL.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer me. I really appreciate it.

[Joe-ness]

Check out the Marine Ornamental Fish and Invertebrate Breeder site. MOFIB.com

Lots of Stuff on breeding lots of stuff. There are about 70 threads on breeding the lysmata cleaner shrimp group. I think a couple of people on there have raised the skunk cleaner to adulthood. But, from what it seems, they prey upon each other, so everyone who has raised them only gets one per survivor per hatch.

But there is hope. Good luck! :)

[Tangalong]

Joe-ness...thank you, thank you, thank you...just registered...this is and will be probably the best help I have ever received. Wonder why noone else would part with it??

I notice you still have the April Fool's jokes in your profile. lol. I wonder why?

You are a prince among men!!!

Curly

[Paul B]

Exactly as Greenbean said. Those things spawn every month and a half or so. I have had them spawn for years and never had one fry survive. It will not happen in a tank.
Maybe if you had your tank outside next to the sea and you pumped NSW in there continousely, but even then, I doubt it.

[Tangalong]

Well, Paul B...I am a member of the 60 and over club and for all those years things didn't go always great, but I am blessed to have a very optimistic outlook on things. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But at least I will have tried. I want to try Neon Gobies and they should be somewhat easier.

Have a little faith anyway...we might be surprised...I wish I could live by the ocean...I miss it..I was born by it, and lived on Kwajalein in the Marshall Island for 5 years. A lovely and scary reef.

Thanks for your input.

Curly

[Paul B]

Curly, I am also a member of the 60 and older club.
Nice to meet you.
Neon gobies are one of the first saltwater fish to be raised so they should be a lot easier than shrimp which need to float with the plankton for a few months.
I have not dove yet in the Marshall Islands but I am not dead yet.
Take care and good luck.
paul

[Tangalong]

I posted with a guy that lived in the Marshalls with his family not too long ago. He says it is still as beautiful. The island was not very pretty back then, as the war destroyed all but 3 Palms, but they brought a lot in. We weren't allowed to go in the water by the island because of sharks, but my buddy was the Captns. daughter and he would take us in the Captns. boat and go to other islands and let us snorkel. Myself, so sad but cannot do those things now...good luck to you for going though. I really loved to go "reefing" when the tide was 0.00" and we could walk to Big and Little Eby..saw lots of neat things in the tide pools and always came home loaded down. All we wore on our feet were thongs. Sea Urchins were bad too.My Dad was Navy and ran the Officer's Club. Great life for kids.

Hope you get to go and good to meet you too Paul

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Curly

[Paul B]

Curly, I know about the sharks, we dove a while ago on the Islands of Tahiti, you could see sharks from the beach. As soon as you jump off the boat they are all around you.
It is much different from Caribbean diving where the largest fish is a parrotfish.
The sharks don't really bother divers and are just curious. I don't worry about diving with them but I do not like swimming on the surface in the presence of a bunch of them.
There are many more South Pacific Islands I would like to dive but I am getting older and my diving trips are intersperced with "regular" trips. For some reason, my wife also wants to see some land on vacations, I never understood that, I live on land :D

[Tangalong]

I can't blame her, Paul...everywhere we moved, my Dad and I seemed to try to bring the Island with us...Palm trees, ferns, sand, corals, shells (we had a magnificant collection) and I still have my place looking and sounding like the ocean and waterfalls.

I like the water better as it is softer and less bugs...however, when I saw the water spider pictures...UGH...maybe the land isn't so bad!!lol. I want to go to my roots...Ireland and the Kerry Sea.

[ehayden]

Hey Tangalong? I got a notice from Dr's Foster and Smith. Says they have tank raised neon gobies. I have been waiting myself.

[Tangalong]

ehayden, thanks loads...will def check it out.. do you know how big they are??? I will need a few so I can get male/female. Can't you get more than 1 fish with the shipping fee?

[Paul B]

Tagalong, I have been to my roots, Sicily

[Tangalong]

:( :( :( They're already all gone...left my e-mail though.

:) :) :) On a happier note, Paul b...how neat for you and your wife to go to Cicily..lots to see and goodies to eat for sure.

[Tangalong]

ehayden....I just ordered 4 of the tank-raised....Oh, I so hope they are good quality...will let everyone know tomorrow after they have arrived and are in tank crusing the reef. If they are really small I will put them temp in a 10 gallon I have ready. Don't really like trying to keep params good in such a small one, though.

I am starting a new thread and just realized I need to transfer it to the breeding or reef fish forum. Dang...later............

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Curly

["Umm, fish?"]

If you really want to try the shrimp, I'd suggest you start budgeting for this book (or just find it at the library):

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Ornamental-Shrimp-Aquaculture-Conservation/dp/1405170867/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242228198&sr=8-1

There aren't any magic bullets in there, but it's information you need. The work that Luis (from here and MOFIB) has put in on raising these is state-of-the-art, so be sure to talk to him. The last time I heard him reply to a question like yours, though, he advised the person to start out with peppermint shrimp. They are an easy shrimp to get started with and will help you develop your crustacean-rearing techniques with animals that are a little more forgiving. Next, move on to something like sexy shrimp. Then move on.

To give you hope, there's apparently a place in Europe that are raising these on a small commercial scale for the European market.

Good luck!

[Tangalong]

"Umm, fish?"...
wow...hard user name to type without looking a couple times lol

Thanks loads for this valluable info..this is great..wish I was younger...don't know if I will live long enough to breed anything the way I'm going...I think the Fire Shrimp are beautiful, but they are a more reclusive type aren't they? Could I get that book on Amazon? Our Library has no fish books at all unless you want to go to Downtown Covington or across the River to Cincinnati...and those are not my cup of tea...too rough .... mean fish so to speak.

I'll concentrate on the Gobies now, since I found them and they are on the way. The Cleaners keep escaping from where i had partitioned them off with egg-crate and one has lost his/her eggs...bummer..they definitely will have to be isolated, and if the fry need to be in the water column, then a tall tank would probably be the best would it not?

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Curly

["Umm, fish?"]

Yeah, the user name is a quote of the reaction that I got when I said I wanted to set up an aquarium. :)

The cool thing is that any library can pretty much get any book. Call and ask to speak to the "Interlibrary Loan" desk. They'll take care of you.

Yeah, the Lysmata debelius do spend a lot of time hiding. Mine has a small cave under where I feed the tank so it can steal anything that hits the sandbed.

[Tangalong]

I will try to get that book...sounds very intriguing. Very funny about your beautiful shrimp. Mine keep escaping from where I have them partitioned off with egg=crate AND getting back over?????? You wouldn't think with all those antennae and legs they could get through AND back. I can't catch them doing it. I hate to let them roam the reef as one is full of eggs and the others will ram her....what would you do??

["Umm, fish?"]

They do need caves and such to hide in when they feel vulnerable. Do they have sheltered spots?

[AuroraDrvr]

Too add a little, I have been attempting to rear Peppermint Shrimp and Sargassum Shrimp larvae for a few months now. Like many have said, shrimp larvae are extremely fragile. They need to eat a lot of the right kinds of foods, but you also need to keep water quality high. A 5 or 10 gallon and an air-driven sponge filter should suffice.

You will loose many batches. I have had 5+ batches of larvae turn up dead in an hour, no rhyme or reason. I observed them one hour prior, went out and did something, can back and all were dead.

["Umm, fish?"]

If you're serious about the harder shrimp, a rectangular tank won't cut it. Calado in the book designs shows some simple alternatives, or if you are feeling really ambitious you should build a kreisel. Something along the lines of this:

http://piscis.fr/spip.php?article87

[Tangalong]

OK, are you teasing me about building? Or the French? Although I really like the neat little octopus with 4 legs and 1 BIG EYE..make a neat Avatar !!

I see what they mean when they say keep them in the water column. I do have a 35 Gal Hex that is currently occupied by my Stomatopod. I actually thought it would make a good place for a water column. But do you keep it going in a stead way with phs?

AuroraDrvr...that is my biggest worry...FOOD...don't think I am up to raising their food also...If I had someone here to direct me it would be different. I have read and read and read...it just seems like garble to me. I can take care of animals of all types but building is an alien concept I just cannot seem to grasp. That part of my brain must have been damaged somewhere..

Unnn,fish the shrimp have several good pieces of LR and overhangs to play...One of them molted again last night...think the eggs are still there...not sure...am leaving the molt in until tomorrow AM hoping they consume it. I gave them a piece of silverside tonight that I was cutting into little pieces for Bree (Mantis) since she is molting (don't tell Roy) and I gave the Cleaners a piece on a skewer...RIOT...didn't know they were so strong...brought out the demon in them LOL..

The Gobies are coming Sat. so I will be starting a thread probably in the Reef Fishes Forum, but continue our Shrimp Fry one here since I am not giving up yet. Give it a try anyway. With all of you helping something good has to come of it..

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Curly

["Umm, fish?"]

I'm just saying, is all.... :)

[stumpovrtyme]

Iv heard of people raising peppermint shrimp in home aquariums quite often. Iv really been hoping my cleaners breed now im a little dissapointed at how unlikely it is to keep them alive. As far as neons go there is a couple ebay stores with them right now.

[Tangalong]

I just got 4 from F&S wild caught...beautiful, lively, and matched pair already....letting them hang on in 75 for now...going to get a 20 for themselves.

[stumpovrtyme]

That sound awsome I have 5 cleaners in my 55 right now. I wanna put a coral banded but I heard theyll kill my cleaners. Anyone have these together? I also have a very tiny pistol shrimp I have only seen once but hear once n a while. Beleive it is a candy striped. What is the danger with pistols?

[Tangalong]

No Pistols, No Coralbanded, peppermint probably are OK. There is a video on U-tube of a Pistol shooting a bubble of water at a cleaner and killing, dragging him off to eat. I like Pistols, but not with cleaners. I have 2 Cleaners (4 neons) and they both have eggs, but other fish keep stealing their eggs by ramming them..I think I might try in my 10 gallon when empty after I get the neons in their 20. It looks pretty grim breeding successfully but I want to try anyway. Tons of learning and reading to do and a book to hope to get that will be a big help was suggested by one of our experts.