Cycling dry rock

[josh_tn]

I went ahead and ordered some dry rock from marcorocks for the new 180g. I would like to go ahead and be cycling this rock while I'm finishing getting the tank setup. What is the best way to do this? I was thinking of picking up one of those stock tanks from HD to use for this.
Is it as simple as filling it with saltwater, putting in the dry rock and a couple pieces of live rock, dropping in a heater, and putting a powerhead or 2 in there? Does it need any light or a cover?

The rock is supposed to be here on Saturday so any help would be appreciated. I may also need a piece or 2 of live rock to seed with if anyone has any available.

[poolkeeper1]

I would think the process you have listed above would work, But It would be better to add at least 10% live rock to the mix and have some form of live creatures in the container. There are additives out to seed live bacteria that will also help to speed up the process. Bacteria multiply very quickly but this process will take some time b4 you have what real live rock would bring to a tank. Also If you want the process of Algae to start to cover your rock light will be needed for this to take place. Remember that all the benefical creatures that come In on real live rock are devoid In this product and must be introduced in the seed rock for It to be able to support your new system... Hope I've been helpful....

[josh_tn]

Very helpful info. Thanks Bill. As far as light goes, I have a little 20" PC light I could hang over it but it wouldn't be much light. Would it be enough to get the algae process going?

One other question I'm debating - I'm planning on building some structures with the rock using the ceramic rods and epoxy. Should I do this prior to cycling the rock or after it is done and I'm ready to put it in the tank? I'm thinking it would probably be best to construct them first and then cycle so I don't have to damage them once they're cycled? Sound right?

[waynesworld]

Josh you can also just put it into your tank and it will become live there. What I would do is build your structure in your tank dry or with water and then add some live rock from another tank and slowly add fish you will not have problems. If you would like you can place some rock in one of my tubs to get some of the good stuff they are talking about and when you transport it back you just keep it in water to stop any die off.

If you have a tub it is nice to use to keep some rock in why you are arranging your tank but not needed if you are not using it for something else.

[josh_tn]

Thanks Wayne. I don't have the sump built or any plumbing done yet so I can't put the rock in the tank yet. That's why I was thinking of getting a jump start on the cycle while I was getting the tank setup finished. Knowing how slowly I seem to be progressing it could be a few weeks before the tank sees any water. I'm just thinking that after finally getting the tank setup and running, I'll not enjoy sitting and waiting another few weeks for the rock to cycle. But maybe I'm just being impatient.
I do hate to spend money on a stock tank just for this purpose though, so maybe someone might have one I could borrow? Or be interested in buying a lightly used one after I finish my rock cycle?

[james3370]

wayne's way is how i'm planning on doing my rock wall. gonna build it in the tank w/ dry rock from bulkreefsupply & marcorocks. then when i get the tank running, i plan on seeding the main tank & sump w/ a few pieces of live rock......& maybe a bottle of purpleup LOL

[poolkeeper1]

As Wayne said and I agree you could just do this In your tank after building your columns, You don't have to have a sump running for the rock to be seeding, And when you are ready just hook the sump Into the system! If you want to start Coraline Algae I can give you some scrapings from my tank to start It off, Purple Up will do nothing to start It!!! Sorry James IMO that stuff Is a ripoff.

[andywe]

I like purple up for the nano's, but for the 180 no way. I have a 180 Josh and did my setup starting with Purple up, and it was not great. DT's or BRS 2 part is a much wiser (and cheaper) way.

[james3370]

yeah. my only experience w/ the purple up is my biocube8 & the 2 jbj pico tanks. i did notice quite a bit of coraline quick on the dry rock when i set one of the picos up & used the purpleup. only thing "live" in that tank when i set it up was the sand

[poolkeeper1]

You must have had the coraline get In somehow because purple up does not contain any!!! It claims to accelerate It's growth but I don't believe It does anything, Well except empty your wallet... JMHO.

[josh_tn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15005269#post15005269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poolkeeper1
As Wayne said and I agree you could just do this In your tank after building your columns, You don't have to have a sump running for the rock to be seeding, And when you are ready just hook the sump Into the system! If you want to start Coraline Algae I can give you some scrapings from my tank to start It off, Purple Up will do nothing to start It!!! Sorry James IMO that stuff Is a ripoff.

Well I guess I never thought of that. So you just fill up the tank well below the overflows so it doesn't spill over into the drains? I suppose I could do it that way. Would certainly save me from buying the stock tank. Sounds like that might be the best bet.

When you say DT's, do you mean the phyto? I have some of that I've been feeding the nano with every few days.

Now I just need to find some live rock and some powerheads and I'll be all set. Thanks for all the help everyone.

[NeveSSL]

For coralline algae to grow, just make sure your pH, calcium, alk, and maybe magnesium (EXACTLY what's in purple up) are at proper levels and your lighting isn't too bright. If you have one lone piece of live rock it will be enough to seed everything for filtration. Just add maybe one piece of shrimp for food for the bacteria, but that's not a necessity.

:)

Brandon

[andywe]

I found good results with Purple up, and it was easy, especially for the nano or smaller tanks (100 gal and under). It did yield results, but again, on larger tanks it gets expensive. I have 2 new bottles that will take me years to go through on the nano's. Anyone want to buy a bottle from me?

[mixer911]

I would keep most of it dry and build the structure first. If you use acrylic rods and epoxy putty you can get the structure built and then soak the rock in a seperate container. That's what I did, but mine was a lot smaller scale :)
Take wayne up on that offer to put some in his tank, then build with the rest.

[mixer911]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15006019#post15006019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by josh_tn

When you say DT's, do you mean the phyto? I have some of that I've been feeding the nano with every few days.


DT's Reef Elements. That is the A,B,C. Same stuff (calcium) you bought at fins at the last meeting. You can get it online in Gallons cheaper.

[poolkeeper1]

Brandon, Just where does It say what's In purple Up, Last bottle I saw did not list any Ingredients!!! That's why I will not use a product that doesn't tell you what It Is your pouring Into your tank. Odds are It's some sort Of Ca nothing more and at almost 20.00 a bottle It's quite a scam IMHO. BRS 2 part Is much cheaper and at least you know what you getting. I've had amazing Coraline growth with nothing added at all, just water changes and good T5 lighting. Ca, KH, Mg If all are in the proper range you will get growth. On the Other note one lone piece of live rock will If given time seed the others, But for a 180gal tank and to introduce a wide variety of beneficial critters I would suggest more. It will take at least a year to have a fully diverse and benefical system like this compared to all live rock, I have done this b4 and speak from experiance, I carried my live rock from California in trash cans, via Mo to Tn and unless you add all the things that are In LR they don't appear out of thin air. Bacteria multiply's fast but you must add the critters.

[josh_tn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15007497#post15007497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mixer911
I would keep most of it dry and build the structure first. If you use acrylic rods and epoxy putty you can get the structure built and then soak the rock in a seperate container. That's what I did, but mine was a lot smaller scale :)
Take wayne up on that offer to put some in his tank, then build with the rest.

When you say soak the rock in a separate container, do you mean with some live rock to seed it or just by itself? My dilemna is I don't currently have a separate container so I think I'll either need to buy one or cycle it in the tank with the water level low enough to keep it from overflowing into my drain holes that have no plumbing yet.

[mixer911]

you could do it either way. In the tank would be fine too. You will definately need some LR to seed it with once you soak it. Do you have any way of skimming it while it is seeding. your gonna get a bunch of grunge from the rock once it hits the water. here is a shot of my skimmer cup after one day. I emptied it like 4-5 times over a week. And this was only 50 lbs ;)

http://bptnja.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pYPixnHUoyBFBjrNsKFLnp2_7drtSQtff25Dmh8ZsyzR7-z2bUgJJb1x2ClZ_dexdSGu-01MvBsZbIj83MUO7wA/DSC00572.jpg

[reef2]

i just did the rock work on my 240g a couple weeks ago with dry rock. i built my structure while it was dry in the tank. this way i could take the pieces out drill, ziptie and epoxy. after i filled up the tank with sw to just under the overflows. its cycling while i work on the sump.

[james3370]

i put a ball valve right after the elbow connection to the bulkhead, so i'll just close it & let the tank cycle while i do the sump (when i get to that point)

guess i'll have a powerhead in my tank after all (for only a short time) LOL

.....oh wait, i have an over the top closed loop :rollface:

[josh_tn]

I have the skimmer but I'm not sure of any good way to use it if I cycle the rock in the tank. If I get a stock tank to cycle it in, I might could rig it up somehow.
I don't even have the bulkheads installed on the tank yet so I'll definitely have to keep the water level low if I use the tank to cycle the rock.
My marcorocks shipping just updated and it looks like the rock should be here today instead of Saturday so I may be getting started sooner than I thought.

[waynesworld]

Ok the firs thing you need to do is get the bulkheads in. You want to test those with just putting water in the over flow not the whole tank. I know this from exp a couple of times(I am a slow learner). then you will have ball or gate valves closed to use your tank. But if you use a stock tank you will put live rock in it and I would through a few cheap mollies in it to help cycle. I sent you a PM though.

[josh_tn]

Ok, so should all the bulkheads(drains and returns) have ball valves right at the bulkhead to shut them off? I have 2 corner overflows and each has a drain and return drilled in the bottom.

[mixer911]

Yea, i usually leave a some room inbetween the bulkhead and the ball valve so if you ever have to remove the bulkhead in the future you can just cut the area in between the 2.

[james3370]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15010062#post15010062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mixer911
Yea, i usually leave a some room inbetween the bulkhead and the ball valve so if you ever have to remove the bulkhead in the future you can just cut the area in between the 2.

or use a dual-union ball valve. in fact, on my build all my ball valves are dual-union ball valves from lowes....you never know when you might have to take something apart & they are about the same price as buying a ball valve & 2 unions. i HIGHLY recommend doing it that way

if ya need any standard 3/4" ball valves, let me know. i have 6 that i didn't use & no receipt to return....let ya have em cheap :)

[josh_tn]

Thanks. I just put the bulkheads in and I'll probably head to Lowe's this afternoon and get some valves.

James, my returns are 3/4" I believe so I may take you up on that.

[josh_tn]

Rock got here while I was home for lunch. I've never bought any rock online before but I'm pretty impressed with this stuff. Good variety of shapes and sizes and its very porous rock.

http://webpages.charter.net/jem2288/180%20gallon%20reef/5-14-09%20rock%20arrival/DSCN5716.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/jem2288/180%20gallon%20reef/5-14-09%20rock%20arrival/DSCN5717.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/jem2288/180%20gallon%20reef/5-14-09%20rock%20arrival/DSCN5718.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/jem2288/180%20gallon%20reef/5-14-09%20rock%20arrival/DSCN5719.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/jem2288/180%20gallon%20reef/5-14-09%20rock%20arrival/DSCN5720.JPG

[poolkeeper1]

Looks nice, Now comes the fun part doing a jig saw puzzle so to speak...

[james3370]

yeah, that's what my marco rock looks like. the bulkreefsupply rock i also got is similar, but a little less "spaghetti noodle" looking LOL

i should be able to break mine into smaller pieces easily w/ a hammer & chisel

[mixer911]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15010155#post15010155 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3370
or use a dual-union ball valve. in fact, on my build all my ball valves are dual-union ball valves from lowes....you never know when you might have to take something apart & they are about the same price as buying a ball valve & 2 unions. i HIGHLY recommend doing it that way

if ya need any standard 3/4" ball valves, let me know. i have 6 that i didn't use & no receipt to return....let ya have em cheap :)


My fish love all the crevices in the Marco rock.... There are tons of hiding spots.

[james3370]

yeah, i originally put a 1.5" single-union ball valve on my overflow pipe.....then it was pointed out to me that i mounted it backwards (union on top instead of bottom)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/smileys/doh.gif

luckily, i had left some pvc between the elbow on the bulkhead & the ubv, so i cut it, used a 1.5" slip/slip coupler & reduced it to 1" there since 1.5 was too much drain for my tank anyway LOL

before & after:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/29%20build/th_CIMG1816.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/29%20build/CIMG1816.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/29%20build/th_CIMG1827.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/29%20build/CIMG1827.jpg)

[josh_tn]

Well I picked up some valves at Lowes this afternoon. Turns out my returns are 1" not 3/4" James. Drains are 1.5". Those 1.5" union ball valves are massive. Hope I don't have any clearance issues.

I have no idea where to even begin trying to piece these rocks together. Guess I'll go see if I can get some good ideas from pictures here on RC.
When you build these aquascapes, how do you make the bottom stable so it won't lean or fall over? Does the sand do that or do you make some type of platform with the acrylic rods?

[poolkeeper1]

A platform would be wise, or several rocks on the bottom then start to build upward so they look natural...

[josh_tn]

That sounds like a good idea.

Those true union valves are just a bit too big to clear down there. I'll either have to get some 45's and bring it down and out a bit before putting the valve or use a smaller type of valve. I think if I use the 45's on the drains, I can probably get the return valves right at the bulkhead like I'd planned. I'm not sure which is best but it seems like for maintenance and ease of use, it might be better to use the 45's. Even with a smaller valve, it will be tight in there otherwise.

[james3370]

yeah, i'm glad i reduced my overflow pipe down to 1" cause the 1.5 did look pretty big LOL

as far as the rocks, i just got done doing mine (explanation end of pg5...pics are on pg6 of build thread). i ended up putting some rather long wide pieces on the bottom & just stacking from there. once i was done, went in between all the rocks & just squirted some of the pond foam & let it expand. it already seems pretty solid.....i think the only way it is coming out is to sledgehammer the tank apart LOL

[josh_tn]

Looking good James. You're definitely gonna have to leave that in the tank permanently lol.

[dborowsk]

I agree with the other posters. Aging the rock will happen over time and your ideas should work. I would add blasting your pumps, power heads, propellers, etc. right at the rock. I find that I get the most 'purple' the quickest near the highest flow. Maybe that's obvious, but keep the water circulating well around your rocks while aging them. Good luck. I like the popcorn ball appearance of those rocks. Reminds me of treat day.