Considering vodka- couple quick ??

[Vauche]

Had posted in another forum and it was suggested another forum might be more appropriate. Since I have seen some vodka threads here I will repost.

Considering dosing vodka and I've read when dosing vodka you want NSW levels or at least an ALK about 7-8dkh.

I'm wondering:

1) Would a dkh of 9 be a big issue as this is what I've been shooting for currently not using any carbon source?

2) What is the most convienent salt mix for vodka dosing? I currently use Oceanic and it runs really high in both Ca (500+) and Mg (1500 +/-). I've also had levels of change water for ALK at 9-11dkh although the salt-mix thread had ALK at 8.5 +/-.

3) Could the high Ca and Mg cause a problem or is it just ALK that I should worry about in a salt mix?

Any help as always is greatly appreciated!

[Genetics]

Vauche,

1. A dkH should not be a problem however when you start I would monitor sps corals carefully for recession of tissue at the tips. If this does happen then your alk would need to drop before continuing.

2. There is no set salt for vodka dosing. Using what you have and are comfortable with is the best option.

3. I believe Borneman suggested that ethanol may cause a precipitant at higher amounts.

[Vauche]

Thanks Genetics I appreciate the info. There is a lot to get a hold of with these carbon dosing plans.

If I may, a couple of more questions that I have not seen in my searches.

1) How should I monitor if my nitrates and phosphates are undetectable via salifert test kits? The key is I have cyano and a little bubble algea so I know that I have one or the other and probably both the problem being they are being utilized pretty quick by these. I think what I'm saying is if you look at a test kits I'm doing great in reguards to N & P, but if you look at the tank, well not so much!

2) Microbacter 7 seems to be the bact. supplement of choice, is this started right from the beginning? It seems with the cyano this would be a good choice as I need all the competition to keep the cyano in check.

Thanks again!

[Genetics]

Vauche, I would start MB7 concurrently if you are planning to dose both. As for cyano, it may get worse when you start dosing. It is really a toss up on improvement. I would recommend starting and then observing for improvement. If you have algae growth I would start removing areas every week and then observing whether they come back. If they do increase your dose.

[A.VOID]

Does everyone get Cyano when dosing? I just started on Saturday, and I'm not excited about the Cyano plan.

[imisky]

ive been dosing VSV (vodka,sugar,vinegar) for a year and 5 months now and i havent had any cyano issues at all. My experience with carbon dosing is, high alk(9+) will have burnt tips, low alk(-7) and you'll get STN. the perfect number for me seems to be 7-8dKH.

[originalozzyo]

I noticed the same with having low alk and dosing vodka that i got rtn. The 7~9 dkh really is the sweet spot. How is it with dosing vinegar and sugar as well?

[plyle02]

I try and shoot for 8dkh, usually test at 7.8dkh though. I use TMP salts, which consistently tests at 8dkh for me. Calcium usually around 420, and mag over 1350. A bit higher than NSW on CA and Mag, but corals are vibrant and growth is good. Running Neo-zeo, seems that the depletion of alk is inherint to running this system, if anything, I need to dose more ALK of the 2 part I use... GL

[Nanook]

[moved]

[Vauche]

Thanks for the info again.

My thought process was to start both the MB7 and vodka concurrently so I think when I start I will go this route.

A.Void- I know from my reading that not everyone encounters cyano on the vodka plan but it can happen. For many it seems it is temporary. Please keep in mind I am asking questions so I do not know for sure but this is what my research has found.

Plyle02- I was looking at Tropic Marine Pro myself as the numbers in the thread: A General Guide to Salt Mixes puts this as one of the best salts for vodka dosing based on the numbers for ALK, Ca, and Mg. (Based again on what I've read on this subject) Good to here that you are having success with it as it is an expensive mix to switch to if I choose to do so which is likely if I go vodka as with Oceanic I have had ALK as high as 11 out of the bucket.

(As a note, I do not have a problem with Oceanic salt, it has worked well for me, just the numbers don't really jive with c-dosing requirements!)

Any input on a more sensitive test kit for N & P than salifert? I know for P I could use a Hanna meter but this will have to wait ($$).

[tmz]

FWIW I run dkh at 11+ without burnt tips or other sps issues. I dose vodka vinegar and sugar. Have been doing so fro 101 days, light patchy cyano has appeared in two of the system's frag tanks over the last week /10days. I do not have a ulns though. PO4:0.04ppm to0.0 6ppm and nitrates about 2.5 ppm.

[Vauche]

Thanks tmz for that experience at a higher ALK. I doubt I would be that lucky. If it a bad thing could possible happen in my reef world it most likely will!

I'm assuming you had no cyano before you started but now the few spots. Do they seem to be staying put at least. My concern is I already have it and I don't want it getting even more out of control.

[Vauche]

Well, I decided to give this idea a shot as I came to point where I believe I had nothing to lose.

Because I am chicken I figured out my dose of vodka for my tank and cut it in half. I started with 0.25ml vodka on a total volume of approx 140G for 3 days then upped it to 0.5ml for three days and now today will go up to 0.75ml. I can not be home all day watching the tank so this slower approach gives me more piece of mind.

I also started with the MB-7 using the high nutrient dosing, so for my tank that is about 5 caps or 25mls roughly. Other things I have done to start is cut back feeding to every other day, sometimes every 3rd day. My hope, as is the ability of many c-dosers, is to increase this to daily when I get nutrients under control and cyano back in it's cage.

So, 7 days into the plan and I am hesitant to say that the tank does already look better (I didn't get ill when I looked at last night). Do I have a long way to go? Yes, but even in a short time subjectively to my eye (and my wifes-who doesn't look at the tank every day) it has already improved. Areas where cyano was running rampant have at least not expanded, an area where cyano was blown off sand did not grow back in a day (it may be there today but still that would be slower growth than before.)

So, to all who give their time to give information, thank you for the help and hope that all is not lost. How this will end, not sure, probably won't be for a while, but the ride will be interesting.