Crazed's newbie 70 gallon

[Crazed]

I just got live rock into my tank today, so I figured it was high time to get a log started. :) I'm not sure how to do this exactly, so I'll just describe what I did with some pictures.

I started out by rinsing the live rock in saltwater outside. I bought a combination of Fiji, Solomon, and I also used some regular rock to make the nice cave at the bottom. I encountered some kind of worm in one of the pores of a rock. He seemed rather tough when I poked him with a toothpick, and he disappeared before I could pull him out. I'm hoping it's not a bristleworm... what's the best way to get rid of them just starting out? The piece of rock he was in was one of the big ones at the bottom of the tank, so I'd rather not tear down everything. I'm not even sure if it was a worm; I just saw something about a centimeter wide showing a little bit out of a pore, and it was dark brown/black.

There was some bubble algae but I removed it. Some hair algae remains, though I've got most of it. I was very, very pleased to see that several brittlestars came along for the voyage. I had no idea they were in there until a couple minutes ago, and they're currently crawling around the tank. Let's hope they survive! Any way to increase my chances?

I'm not skimming at the moment, since I actually need to make more water up, and the skimmer produces tons of microbubbles until it breaks in. The water is cloudy (it was cloudy before), but someone at the LFS told me it was probably just a bacterial bloom (even though I used RO water). Hopefully it clears up.

Substrate will come later, just so you know; I'm just going bare-bottom until after the rock is cured.

Anyway, here are the pictures! :D

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-half.JPG

Tank with 3 full spectrum and 1 actinic T5.

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-full.JPG

Tank with 3 full spectrum and 3 actinic T5.

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/brittlestar-1.JPG

One of 4 brittlestars I've seen so far.


There's one thing I'm not sure about. There's some brown growth on the rock, and I don't know if it's just algae, or if it could be some aiptasia. It doesn't look clearly defined like the pictures of aiptasia I've seen, but what should I do? The only pictures I can give you that close are very fuzzy that can't very well be seen. Hopefully I can provide one if the tank clears up anytime soon.

Time running: 3 hours
Temperature: 77 F (working up to 79-80F)
Salinity: 1.025 (I'll probably try to get it around 1.024).
pH: I honestly can't tell, I can't use these tests too well. I know it's a big range, but it's somewhere between 7.8 and 8.2. I think it's 7.9, but I could be entirely wrong.
Ammonia: A little less than .25
Nitrite: 0

As you can see I had problems testing. How can I get more accurate results? I can't believe something as important as pH I can't determine within .4. I'm using API.

With regular partial saltwater changes, will the pH stablize, or do I have to do something else? Will a temporary pH of 7.8 hurt the creatures currently in the tank?

Also, when should the rock begin curing/cycling? I've seen no appreciable ammonia spike. The rock was not sold as cured, but it was sitting in the tanks for a while, and was fairly clean when I got it. Should I be adding fish food to spike the ammonia?

Thanks, and I hope you like the pictures. :)

[aquaman67]

I'd just sit back and watch for a while.

IMO worms are good, no need to remove.

As for the pH, the worst thing you can do is start chasing numbers when you're not even sure what the number is.

A good pH meter will make you feel better and don't try to adjust anything without one.

It all looks good. The rock maybe be cured or maybe not. I'd just wait a few weeks and let it stabilize in your tank. You're going to be in this hobby for a long time, so i'd just sit back and relax. The hardest and best thing to do is often nothing.

[Crazed]

Okay, thank you. :) I have no problem with waiting, but I'm the kind of person that gets anxious if I can't tell if things are at least going in the right direction. The temperature had been fluctuating (since I had to have the sump off to aquascape) and I was worried it might have affected the rock, but I guess if the brittlestars are okay, I don't have that much to worry about. I'll try to take them as my barometer. :)

Do you have a recommendation for a pH meter? I was thinking about getting one, but I wasn't going to until I found out how inaccurate my eyes are at reading the tests. Are there titration tests that you know of for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, as well?

Once again, thanks. :D

[Crazed]

I read that at least one type of brittlestar should have a salinity of 36 ppt. That would equate to about 1.027 specific gravity. Should I attempt to raise the salinity slowly or should I keep it lower where it's at? (1.024-1.025)

Also, I have a great refractometer, but sometimes if I take multiple readings within a few minutes of each other, it varies by .001 sometimes. Am I rinsing/washing the components too much/too little, or is such a variance okay?

Speaking of the brittlestars, they've gone into hiding now in the daytime. :) I was hoping to see if anytihng else came out in the tank at night when it was dark, but I fell asleep. Haha, hope they're okay; they're relaxing on the glass right now.

I have two small questions about them; once I put my substrate in, and if I accidentally bury some, will they be able to get out, or should I take extra special care to make sure they're not getting covered? And secondly, I've tried to study these guys as close as I can to see what species they are and compare them with my books, but I haven't been able to find anything out. Any guess to how big they'll get, if they survive?

[IronMdnX]

Let it sit and cook, 1st lesson in reef keeping. patients!

[Crazed]

Okay, okay, I'll try to calm down. :p

I did some rearranging of rock today when I noticed one large rock on the right wasn't really being supported reliably. Things look pretty much the same, but some thinsg are slightly different on the right mound and the topmost bridge. Now the large rock behind the right powerhead on the pictures above is leaning against the right of the glass a very little bit; there may be a tiny bit of glass near the corner that I won't be able to clean regularly, but I'd rather have more stability in the long run. I think it looks better anyway. So, that's what I did today. I don't really have anything planned for tomorrow aside from changing out some prepared saltwater. I may or may not turn my protein skimmer on.

Next time I update this thread will probably be the next time anything interesting happens, or if I have another question (which I probably will!). I may post some pictures of the slightly different rock arrangement when my lights turn back on tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who's reading along. :)

[Sisterlimonpot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15052271#post15052271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Crazed
I read that at least one type of brittlestar should have a salinity of 36 ppt. That would equate to about 1.027 specific gravity. Should I attempt to raise the salinity slowly or should I keep it lower where it's at? (1.024-1.025)

Also, I have a great refractometer, but sometimes if I take multiple readings within a few minutes of each other, it varies by .001 sometimes. Am I rinsing/washing the components too much/too little, or is such a variance okay?

Speaking of the brittlestars, they've gone into hiding now in the daytime. :) I was hoping to see if anytihng else came out in the tank at night when it was dark, but I fell asleep. Haha, hope they're okay; they're relaxing on the glass right now.

I have two small questions about them; once I put my substrate in, and if I accidentally bury some, will they be able to get out, or should I take extra special care to make sure they're not getting covered? And secondly, I've tried to study these guys as close as I can to see what species they are and compare them with my books, but I haven't been able to find anything out. Any guess to how big they'll get, if they survive? As far as salinity goes it all depends on what you are going to have in the tank. If you're planning corals I would say 1.025 to 1.027 that’s a good compromise for fish and corals. If it's going to be a fish only tank you can get away with less.

The brittle stars, If you see one than you have many many more in the tank and I wouldn't give much thought to burying them. They will make their way back out.
If they came on the rock than they won't get more than an inch in diameter. however there a 1 or 2 in my tank that defy that logic.

[Sisterlimonpot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15054737#post15054737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Crazed
Okay, okay, I'll try to calm down. :p

I did some rearranging of rock today when I noticed one large rock on the right wasn't really being supported reliably. Things look pretty much the same, but some thinsg are slightly different on the right mound and the topmost bridge. Now the large rock behind the right powerhead on the pictures above is leaning against the right of the glass a very little bit; there may be a tiny bit of glass near the corner that I won't be able to clean regularly, but I'd rather have more stability in the long run. I think it looks better anyway. So, that's what I did today. I don't really have anything planned for tomorrow aside from changing out some prepared saltwater. I may or may not turn my protein skimmer on.

Next time I update this thread will probably be the next time anything interesting happens, or if I have another question (which I probably will!). I may post some pictures of the slightly different rock arrangement when my lights turn back on tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who's reading along. :) One of my pep peeves is having rock so close to the viewing glass that I can't clean it. Trust me on this one you'll want to do the same because it's going to bug the heck out of you. Right now is the perfect time to get it situated right when you have nothing in the tank. Oh and again turn that skimmer on. :D Good luck.

[Crazed]

Thanks for your suggestions both here and in the other thread! :) I'll get the skimmer on right away, and I'll see what I can do with the rock, but I don't think I can make it much better. If it's a choice between algae or stability, I'll have to go for stability. But, I'll see what I can do! :)

Also, with the stars... if I wanted to get a bigger one later on from the LFS, would it co-exist with the smaller ones that came with the rock? I don't have any specific species names to give you, so I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but ever since I saw those little things I fell in love, and I'd like to get a bigger one down the road. :p

[Sisterlimonpot]

Yeah, they will be fine together. Not to plug a book but a good book for identifying inverts is,"A Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Invertebrates" by Ron Shimek. He also author a book about fishes as well. Oh, and also if you haven't checked out Melevsreef yet he has some good photos to help identify what's in your tank:
http://www.melevsreef.com/id/

[Crazed]

Okay, cool. :) I actually have both those books; they're excellent! They were the books I bought right after New Marine Aquarium and Conscientious Marine Aquarist. I just wanted your own opinion on it.

I'll check out the Melevsreef site.

Also, I checked out the rock, and it looks like it actually isn't leaning against the glass, my Mag scraper just can't get to it. I should be able to scrape it (it really is only like a 1cmX1cm spot) with a longer manual scraper.

Really, thanks again for your help. You're a real asset to this forum. :)

[andyrm66]

X2 what Sisterlimonpot said. On my Cube I have about a 1x1" piece of glass that has to be cleaned by a razor blade. It really really bugs me that I can’t get it any other way. Its worth it to find a way that all the glass is accessible.

[Crazed]

Well, it's definitely accessible. I'll wait until some algae builds up so I can see how effective and easy it is to clean. I'm going to be letting the algae build up on the back of the tank, since I love the way the coralline growth looks at the LFS, so it might even fit in. But if it proves to be too unslightly/too much of a hassle, I'll just have to rearrange the rock.

Also, all the levels are the same as they were last time I posted (.10-.20 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5-10 nitrate), coming up on the one week mark.

[Sisterlimonpot]

It’s working. Eventually the amm will convert into nitrites..... It’s inevitable. It won't stop on amm and stay that way.

[Crazed]

Okay, I finally got the battery for my D80 today and I can take some decent pictures. Since the last pictures, the water cleared up, and I moved some rock around. I also moved the powerheads around and put one of the nozzles just under waterline for anti-siphon. Since then, some brown algae has been growing.

Before:
http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-half.JPG

After:
http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-clear-algae.jpg (http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-clear-algae-full.jpg)
Click for gigantic picture

The rock in the center there, and the other one near the top right (the purple ones) began growing algae (I think?) a couple days ago. Since then, it's started to spread, onto that rock on the lower right and even there are a few spots on the dead rock now. I take it this is a good sign that some nutrients are in my tank, but what do I want to do about this growth? I want coralline growth, but do I want to encourage or stymie the growth of this brown algae, or whatever it is?

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-clear-algae-purplerock.jpg
The centerpiece of the live rock, showing the brown algae growth, the purple growth, as well as some grass and bubble algae I was unable to uproot fully.
http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/month-1/tank-clear-side-bed.jpg
The lovely view from my bed. :)


Ammonia is still somewhere between 0 and .25, nitrite is still 0. Maybe I should throw some fish food in there to get some ammonia build up? I still haven't seen an ammonia spike at all.

Also, I have one important question; evaporation. In a one day period, the evaporation costs me a .001 increase in SG (eg, from 1.024 to 1.025) before I top off. Is this unstable, or not? I have part of my sump covered, but my display tank is unlidded by design. Some of it may not be from evaporation; my skimmer was running rather wet until I adjusted it, but I don't know. How much variance can there be in SG per day? I didn't think it would change that much on ~80 gallons of water.

Thanks in advance, and hope you like the pictures. :)

[Sisterlimonpot]

Evaporation is normal and .001 isn't that bad. as long as you top off daily and replenish what has evaporated. (Keeping in mind add RODI water without salt mix, because the salt doesn't evaporate)

[Crazed]

Okay. Right now I am adding salt water to make up for the evaporation, because I'm trying to push the SG up to 1.026, and once I get it to that level I'll be adding FW. Is .001 a normal variation, though, or is that on the limits of what is acceptable? I just want to know how much leeway I have in case I'm unable to be home for a day or something.

Any thoughts on that algae or the fish food idea?

[SpOnGeMeDiA]

Try adding granulated sugar. Seems irrelevant, but when they absorb it through their centifis pores they in turn benefit through ATP production.

[Sisterlimonpot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15089255#post15089255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SpOnGeMeDiA
Try adding granulated sugar. Seems irrelevant, but when they absorb it through their centifis pores they in turn benefit through ATP production. Crazed don't pay attention to this comment. hopefully you read right through it. Sugar has nothing to do with SG. he has moved on!

[Crazed]

Haha, okay. :)

The algae is still growing. Is this good or bad, and should I increase/decrease the lighting?

Also, any feedback on using fishfood to start a cycle would be appreciated. There still hasn't been any change in the chemistry.

[Sisterlimonpot]

What I would do is grab an uncooked shrimp from the grocery store and put it in the tank for a few days to allow it to decompose and create more ammonia that way it will help the cycle. Take it out after 2-3 days though.

Algae is part of the cycle as well. It’s more than likely diatoms, but when your ammonia drops you can add a clean up crew (CUC)consisting of an assortment of snails and crabs. (I tend to recommend no hermit crabs, they'll kill your snails and take over their shell) but a good diverse CUC will help with keeping algae at bay.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Sorry, as far as the lighting, since you have nothing in the tank you can cut back or even go without them until you have something in the tank to look at. No light or little light will help with diatom growth until you can get a CUC in there.

[Crazed]

Thank you! I'll try the shrimp and cut backs on the lights. :)

[Crazed]

I took my water to the LFS to have someone who knows how to read the tests actually test the water. The lady who did it said there was no ammonia, no nitrite, and 5-10 nitrate, and looking at the test with her it made sense to me. She said she thought the tank was ready, but I know the nitrite never went up at all (unless it did it within the window of, like, 24 hours). It's been almost 3 weeks now. I haven't done the shrimp thing posted above yet... should I do that before adding anything, or do you think it cycled already? Do I have to keep adding raw shrimp to keep the cycle going until completion if I do it? Or, should I just add a small amount of livestock (like a couple snails) and see how things go?

[Crazed]

I think I've come to the conclusion that in my opinion the tank has not cycled enough. I'm going to add some raw shrimp.

I'm also going to be adding fresh saltwater to my QT and get my clownfish. I asked in another thread if I should seed my filter sponge in my DT, whether it would help or not since it's not cycled fully. The consensus seemed to be not seeding it with bacteria first, and making sure to do daily water changes, so that's what I'll go with unless anyone has another opinion.

I also got out my microscope that I used for high school biology (I own my own, a benefit of being homeschooled I supposed!) and took a look at the brown algae. It was pretty neat. I wanted to see what these little diatoms looked like that are beginning to cover everything in my tank. I think I've stopped the spread of the diatoms on new places, but it looks like where they have a foothold they're increasing their presence, to say. It was interesting to investigate. :)

If anyone has any opinion about any of this, please let me know. Thanks for continuing to read!

[Crazed]

Alright, well, I think I'm going to be getting my two clownfish tomorrow, everyone! :D I set up my quarantine tank with fresh saltwater, but I did end up soaking my sponge in the sump of the DT for two days. Ammonia and nitrate in the QT are 0, salinity is 31 and temperature is 77F (compared to 5-10 nitrate, 35 salinity and 79 temp in DT). I may raise the salinity a bit more, slowly. The fish will be quarantined for 4 weeks, which also should give me plenty of time to add substrate to the DT and make sure it has cycled.

What is everyone's opinion on FW dips? Do you think I should do them?

The DT is still the same as it was, although many of the diatoms have died off as a result of the decreased photoperiod. I've slightly increased it again. I'm going to add the shrimp as soon as I can (yes, I still haven't gotten around to it).

[Crazed]

Alright, no clowns tonight. LFS doesn't have any in stock.

So, I was disappointed, but when I returned, I found a surprise in my tank! I turned the lights on in the dark room and there was a slug of some sort crawling up the back pane of the tank!

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/slug_tank_small.jpg (http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/slug_tank.jpg)

He was about 1''x1/2'', and he moved at a decent speed once I turned the lights on, by a sort of undulation like other slugs and snails use, but he was moving pretty fast. He retreated back to the rock within a minute seconds of me turning the lights on. Is this a slug, and is it a desirable hitch-hiker? Looks kind of like Stomatella to me.

I also saw tons of little bugs (copepods, I assume) running around the rockwork. Man, I really must observe my tank in the dark more. :)

[dancewithethan]

I removed pictures from the original thread but you can read what others said. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1599983

[Sisterlimonpot]

Craze, there's no reason to do a fresh water dip unless the fish is showing signs. QT will be fine.

Your tank is like a whole other world in the dark:D

[Crazed]

Got two Ocellaris clownfish today! :) I drip acclimated them for about 40 minutes then put them into my QT, and they're looking great. No pictures right now; it was too dark to get a good picture with the camera, since the QT is illuminated mostly by natural light. The only problem at all seems to be that it looks to me like the suction of the powerhead might be too strong, since they're usually sticking on one side of the tank (although they have come successfully to the other side of the tank a few times).

I put some Nutrafin Cycle into the tank just prior to putting the clowns in. The LFS kind of shafted me by waiving the 5-day guarantee since I told them I have a newly running QT, and they didn't seem to care that I had seeded the sponge in the sump beforehand. When I got home, I looked up the product online and saw it wasn't very effective, but it certainly looked like it would be harmless at worst and helpful at best, so I added some to the aquarium. Anyone have any thoughts about this specific product? I'll probably never use it again, but if it is at all effective, I suppose it is a good idea to use it since the sponge wasn't soaking in the sump for too long. I'm still not worried about the safety of the tank, since I'll still be doing partial water changes and I've received various assurances the sponge is probably just fine, but I figured taking an extra precaution wouldn't be bad (especially if I can keep the guarantee...).

Pictures of the clownfish tomorrow. :)

[Crazed]

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/clownfish.jpg

Cleo is on the right (assuming that's the one that will become female; no, she doesn't have a weird deformity, she's just slightly turned towards the camera :p). The one on the left I haven't named yet, still trying to decide.

[ludnix]

The one of the left looks bigger to me, so I'd think that would be come the female. I personally would have tried to get one which was noticeably different to make the roles apparent, but I guess your guys will figure it out.

[Crazed]

Unfortunately, they were all pretty much the same size at the LFS. I think with some work, I'll be able to notice the difference (I already can to some point). I am pretty sure it is the one on the right, though, since he/she seems to be the "explorer" type and goes after most of the food. Unless that's a male behavior in clownfish.

Thanks for commenting. :)

[chartwell]

Congrats on the clownfish! I started my first salt tank six months ago and it is a wild ride, isn't it? I alternate between terror of really screwing something up and pride and happiness at how well it is coming along. I love to just sit and look at all the life in the tank - it really is a little world of its own!

[Sisterlimonpot]

Crazed,

got the livestock in the tank, now your hooked and the rest is history :D

Just keep an eye on ammonia. if it does start to rise change 20% of the water. the Ocellaris are pretty hardy so even if you initially miss the amm spike they will survive.

[Crazed]

The ammonia spiked today. It was low; below the first color (which is .25), but it was definitely present. I changed 20% of the water (have been doing about 10%/day up until now) and I dosed some more Cycle. I haven't tested since I did the water change, but I will soon. I was going to clean the sponge today, but after I saw the ammonia, I figured I better not screw with the biological filter.

I'm going to get some Ammo-Lock (yes, I'm aware about the false positives you get with testing), since this comes at a really crappy time; I'll be leaving for the shore tomorrow for the next 4 days. My parents will be taking care of the tank until I get back, but I still feel bad leaving them alone right now. They seem alright; I haven't really been able to see how fast their gills are moving, but they're acting pretty much like they did before the spike.

This kind of chemical maintenance is exactly what I wanted to avoid. How can I prevent this from happening in quarantine in the future? Leave the sponge soaking in the sump longer, or what? I'm going to be re-establishing the quarantine tank between uses.

I'm also going to get some Stress-Zyme. Would this help the fish if there were small spikes I'm not aware of over the weekend?

[Crazed]

Please forgive the double post, but a fast opinion would really be appreciated on this, as my window of being able to do things before I leave is pretty narrow. :(

Also, I tested the water after I did the 20% water change, and it was unchanged.

[Crazed]

Jamie and Cleo have moved-on-up to the big tank! :)

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/successive/day-53.jpg

They were in acclimation for a total of 27 days. I cut it short by a day because I noticed the pH in my quarantine tank had dipped to 7.4!! It had been at 7.8 several days before, so I was rather surprised. I was doing 80% water changes from the DT every two days, so I was surprised. And 7.4 is the lower limit of the test spectrum, so it might have even be lower. I was shocked. I was going to put them right from the QT to the DT, but the DT is at 8.0 pH. So, I drip acclimated them to the tank water for about an hour and a half, then I put them in. I made sure the powerheads were off with only the sump return running, and I had the T5s off, leaving just a bedroom light on.

Initially, they seemed a little shocked, but they're doing great now. They're swimming around the tank, mostly around the tank edges. I just turned the fans on today, and they seemed to struggle against the flow for a bit, but now they're getting around quite good. They also ate today.

So, it was hectic, but the first quarantine was successful. There were no signs of disease. I learned a lot of lessons for my next quarantine. I thank God I bought tankraised clownfish for my first fish, because I think any less hardy fish wouldn't have survived the quarantine, what with the ammonia, massive water changes, and (apparently) low pH towards the end of the cycle. I'll be soaking my new sponge in the sump for at least a week in preparation for the next arrivals.

I have some questions, though. How can I keep the pH higher in the QT in the future? Also, when you think the clowns will start exploring inside the rockwork? Right now they're just hanging around the glass.

Also, I have a link to some pictures I've been taking, and will continue to take, of the tank's progression, including the brown diatom phase, the kelp forest phase, and more! :p You can see them here (http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/successive)! :)


Current stats for DT:
Temperature: 80F
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Salinity: 35ppt

[Crazed]

Some better pictures of the fish.

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/jamie.jpg
Jamie. His middle stripe is more shallow than Cleo's (on the other side of his body), he's smaller, and his color is lighter.

http://the-polyglot.net/uploads/other/aquarium/cleo.jpg

Cleo. I'm pretty sure she's going to be the female. She's more aggressive, more curious, and larger.

I think I'm in love. :)