Bringing New Tank Home In A Couple Days

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Hey Everyone i have a couple questions here about my saltwater setup. I have a 90 gallon tank with single overflow and dual head returns. 30 gallon sump. I have read lots of books and such on saltwater marine reef keeping and i just have a couple questions regarding initial setup.

My tank is going to be a bare bottom tank, (maybe an inch or so of sand) just enough to cover the bottom. I plan on stocking the tank right off the hop with about 70 pounds of live rock. This rock has been in circulation at my LFS for at least a month. I dont believe there will be any serious die off.

What i have been thinking to get the tank running is fill with ro/di salt water mixed to proper salinity and heat. Once filled move all 70 pounds of live rock into the water and leave withought a hoodlight or skimmer running and just circulate the water for at least a couple weeks. Is this proper? Or would one suggest running full lighting and a skimmer while circulating the water and building a bio filter?

My hood light is a coralife 48'' 2x250 halide and two 96 watt actinics.


Thanks for the info, i really dont want to crash this baby before its even started.

Also, I will be getting water from my LFS so the water and live rock are both good. Just new sand.

[SeanT]

Hmmm...just some quick thoughts.

PRE #1 I would "cook" the live rock to live algae free.
It doesn't involve boiling or heat...just a name.

1. Invest in your OWN RODI unit to make water and TDS meter.
Many LFS' churn out so much water that their filters are bad and the water is not of the best quality.

2. You cant call it "BARE" bottom if you have sand. ;)

3. Until you have corals don't run your halides, just the PC lights while the tank is going through its cycles.
It'll run up your electric bill and waste up the bulbs for no reason.

hth,
Sean

[yeahitsgotahemi]

When you say Cook the rock, what do you mean? If its been in a tank and all the die off from original shipping and such is gone is this not considered good tank ready rock?

[SeanT]

Originally posted by SeanT
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on any rocks my tank now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Yeah it's good tank ready rock, but I believe he's suggesting to cook it to kill off any algae that is lurking and ready to strike in your new tank. This isn't a necessary step just a suggestion to prevent possible headaches later. I would start the skimmer the second the LR is in the tank to 1) help break it in and 2) start pulling DOC out of the water that will be coming from the LR.
Oh and BTW:
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Well cooking the rock sounds like a pretty good idea.. but it sounds like a lot of extra work, and space might be a little tight for a tub in my basment. How about something like this.

No sand in my tank just rock, and do a cook. Just wrap the entire tank so its black and run the skimmer and no lights. and just keep everything very clean, like every other day clean skimmer and suck crap off the tank and move rocks around and whatnot. I plan on running dual phosban reactors once its going so i hope not to have any real algae problems.

[Fizz71]

I've never cooked, and I honestly don't personally know anybody who HAS. IMO it's overkill but some people do swear by it. To me an algae bloom is part of a tanks maturing and not a big deal. But I'm not posting to start a debate on cooking.... :)

I just wanted to warn you that if you LR is as good as you say it is, you could be cycled in a few days or not even SEE a cycle. So I would test the big 3 daily and if you see nitrate on the rise and no ammonia in 2 weeks, then don't expect to ever see it. Don't run MHs like others have said, unless that LR has some hitchhiker coral life on it. The bulbs cost too much to light rock.

I did want to make one additional comment. Adding live rock to an existing system down the line can be troublesome. Since you aren't adding your "full load" of LR off the top, you better be getting some good quality cured stuff with limited out of tank time when you go to add more. And expect an algae bloom when you do...or heck...maybe cook the second batch. :)

Other than the "Pre #1" SeanT mentioned I give a +1 to the rest...get an RO, leave the tank dark, and bare is NO SAND. :D A man with a crew cut is not bald!

[Fizz71]

Dupe..sorry.

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Well, Im pretty sure the rock is good. What im hoping is no cycle at all. From what i have been reading and such i think i should be in line to not have an algae bloom. Im super excited about this. I have wanted a tank for ages and finally splurged and bought what i needed.

If there is any other advice anyone can offer about the initial setup letter rip. Other then the cook, im thinking after i cycle the tank for about a week if there are no serious spikes, ill add a cleanup crew?

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15091426#post15091426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yeahitsgotahemi
Well, Im pretty sure the rock is good. What im hoping is no cycle at all. From what i have been reading and such i think i should be in line to not have an algae bloom. Im super excited about this. I have wanted a tank for ages and finally splurged and bought what i needed.

If there is any other advice anyone can offer about the initial setup letter rip. Other then the cook, im thinking after i cycle the tank for about a week if there are no serious spikes, ill add a cleanup crew?

That sounds about right (the cleanup crew) but start light. I do like getting the crew in there as soon as possible so you can feed the tank a little, but bare in mind crabs and snails are not very good at "change" so acclimate slow.

And as soon as you light that tank...you'll get an algae bloom. Maybe cooking avoids all that, I've never done it, but aglae blooms are a rite of passage IMO. :)

[Sisterlimonpot]

^^^Definitely, I always suggest adding CUC after the ammonia went to 0 but if you don't get a cycle then a week without amm would be a safe assumption to add CUC.

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Okay so one more quick one about the cleanup crew... Do they need any food at all in the tank. Or they literally just eat algae? There are alot of opinions on how many of what to put in the tank as well. I would like to lean towards more of the crabs vs the snails i know i need some of both. But could anyone suggest how many to put in of each. weighted more to the crabs and such. I plan on having a crew of 3 or 4 peppermint shrimp and some other shrimps. My ultimate goal with the tank is to have mostly coral and inverts with a few passive really different coral safe fish.

[Fizz71]

My favorite CUC creatures are the Scarlet Reef Crab and Nassarius Snails. I also have Cerith, Astrea and Trochus snails. I also have some blue and plain red crabs but they don't seem to be doing to well for me..I did see a blue one yesterday...so they are still alive about 3 months running. The scarlets and nass are everywhere.

For a 90 gallon I'd probably start with about 5-10 each of the scarlets, nassarius and cerith. You'll get a lot of varied opinions on these. FYI...Astreas don't "selft right" too well.

The cerith are algea eaters, the nass are waste eaters, the scarlets swing both ways. :)

I've never had a tank without a clownfish or something else in it for more than a few days after the cleanup crew went in so I've never had to feed my CUC but I will tell you that after spending a year in the basement in a heated/lit/circulating tub not being fed very few of my CUC survived...but it could have been other causes too.

I also have a black cucumber...VERY cool...and a fire and cleaner shrimp round out my CUC.

Good Luck.

[KarlBob]

One word of caution about the CUC: Stores, whether brick-and-mortar or online, make more money by selling more critters. Take their estimates of the number of critters you need with a grain of salt. Overstocking the CUC leads to starvation, then to algae outbreaks as the dead critters decay. Rather than the 1 crab and 1 snail per gallon rate that many retailers suggest, I would start with 1 snail per 5 gallons, and maybe 1 crab per 8-10 galloons. You can build up gradually if more critters are needed.

Speaking of crabs, there are some people here at RC who don't believe in crabs as members of the CUC. They point out that crabs are opportunistic omnivores, who may decide to add a bit of fish to their diet if they get a chance. Others swear by particular species of crab as reef-safe and effective cleaners.

Edit: I like nassarius snails, too. It's fun to watch them bursting out of the sand like zombies emerging from their graves.

Cucumbers have even more of a mixed reputation than hermit crabs. Some people call them time bombs, just waiting to die and wipe out your tank with their toxic bodily fluids. Others say the wipe-out stories are overblown, and cucumbers are relatively safe.

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Im out of Red Deer AB, i have one good LFS around here that deals in saltwater and there really good. I dont know what all he has in stock right now in CUC but i might have to get him to order me some in.
so for my 90 i guess ill probably go like

18 Snails and 12 crabs? Is there any crabs in particular that are better then others for not attacking my fish?

[KarlBob]

Blue-leg and red-leg hermit crabs are two of the types that seem to be reef-safe in most people's tanks. They're both pretty small, and don't grow big enough to pick on most fish.

[yeahitsgotahemi]

Okay this is great, i now know exactely what im going to do to get this baby up and running.

I dont have an RO system yet, but i am going to be getting one here for free pretty quick (buddy of mine in the water buisness) in the meantime a company i deal with locally that does bottled water is telling me they run between 1 and 2 ppm TDS in there water. Is this acceptable levels for my tank for water changes temporarily?