Help me trap my mantis

[wismie]

I'm setting up a new tank (see the red house for my tank build) and just aquascaped my live rocks (from Indonesia). As soon as I finished, I saw a blackish-dark green "thing" about 4-5cm long (about 2 inches) getting out of the rocks. It did swim a while around the tank before disappearing again, but obviously I could not catch it (nor take pics, a shame). A mantis, all right.

As I plan to have a coral tank with some fishes and invertebrates (I know, how boring !), I can't leave it there.

For three days I left a water bottle trap with some (dead) shrimps inside, but the little thing doesn't seem to be interested. There is nothing in the tank - except for the eventual hitchhikers that came with the rocks.

I'd like to try to avoid removing all the rocks one by one to find it. Any idea ?

Do they tend to be territorial, i.e. stay in the same rock, even if that ones move ? I have an idea where it was hiding before I moved everything, do you think it would have selected another place or probably is still in the same rock (which is, of course, buried under other rocks but well..)

Suppose I finally catch it, what should I do with it ? Can I leave it in my refugium, or is it better to give it back to someone who wants to do a specific tank ? (or my LFS, if he is interested).

PS : I don't plan to kill it ;)

[lionbacker54]

i think you'll have a hard time finding him by removing the rocks one by one. they are very good at hiding.

i'd keep trying the bottle trap. eventually he'll get hungry enough to try it. maybe you could put a live shrimp in there too.

[wismie]

I have a pistol shrimp in my current (old) tank, I've seen they can be natural predators to mantis... your views on that ?

[lionbacker54]

i think with animals like that, it depends on size. a bigger mantis will easily take the pistol shrimp. and same for the reverse. how big is the pistol shrimp?

[wismie]

I would say a bit the same size, maybe the pistol is smaller but to be honest, I don't see it very often, it's quite reclusive. But it's in my tank for at least one year-one year and a half, so it's not a baby either...

Shall I put the pistol as a first inhabitant of my new tank and see what happens ?

[lionbacker54]

very doubtful that a pistol the same size or smaller will take out a mantis shrimp. and there is time and energy involved with finding and capturing the pistol too.

i'd wait until some of the other folks on this board chime in. guys like mentat, gozer, and koshmar own multiple mantis shrimp and can tell you their tricks.

[wismie]

Thanks for your advice and for sure I'll wait for some more comments.

[g8gxp]

i had 3 mantis with the LR that i got. 2 of them i got out based on sheer luck, the 3rd was a PITA. i was trying to just get him out by trapping/catching him but proved absolutely impossible.

First you'll need to figure out which rock he's in and pray he doesn't make a permanent home in rock at the bottom of the pile. They usually like to plug up the holes they make with shells, rocks, debris, etc. so look for that. Once you have the rock, take it out - pour a bottle of regular soda water all over it. Shake as hard as you can - he should be disoriented enough to fall right out.

If you can't find someone who wants to take it, your LFS might take it for fish food. Don't release it unless you know that it's a native species.

Good luck

[wismie]

If you can't find someone who wants to take it, your LFS might take it for fish food. Don't release it unless you know that it's a native species.

Good luck [/B]
I won't release it for sure, there is no sea in Switzerland :rollface:

Just called my LFS, he's not interested at all. Anyway, I have to get it first...

[nikesb4l]

set up a 10gal with it in there! there very interesting to watch

[wismie]

I might end up doing that if I can't find someone who wants it. But still I have to catch it :p

[Koshmar]

Alas, the hitch-hiking mantis strikes yet again! You're not going to like my advice unfortunately but it WILL work. It has worked for every one of my mantises. It involves rolling up your sleaves and taking the plunge into your tank. First off, I'm guessing that the 95 gallon tank on your list is the tank the mantis is in? Ok.

Beginning with the rock work, g8gxp made an excellent observation, mantises usually stuff their holes with sand/shells to ceal up their burrow entrances. Look for this rock or just watch for the little creature and find out which rock it is using as a home. Once you figure out the rock, move all the other rocks to the opposite side of the tank and have the said rock on its own side. Get a big fish net with a handle.

It's time to go mantis fishing!

The most important thing is to not let that stomatopod get to the other side of the tank where all the other rocks are. Move the rock with the mantis inside around and the mantis should pop out and go flying all over the place. If the mantis is not comming out of the rock and you are sure that it is in there, take airline tubing and stick one end into various holes and blow. This will create bubbles and freak the mantis out enough to leave the rock. Make sure it doesn't reach the other side where all the other rocks are, or you could just take them out (lots of work though).

Now with the mantis out of the rock, remove the rock and keep the mantis on one side of the tank with the big net. Slowly corner it using the glass and the net. When you get the mantis close to the glass and the net, slowly bring the net entrance together with the glass. During this time the mantis will most likely dart upward. Once you have the mantis inside the net, bring the net up toward the surface while keeping the net entrance in contact with the glass. Take a container full of tank water and quickly press the net entrance into the container and bring the container up and out of the water. You now have the mantis!

Doing this all underwater will prove to be less stressful for the mantis and will ease the transition to another tank. This is a lot of work if you have lots of rocks but it will succeed.

In regaurds to the bottle trap, mantises can go for long periods (weeks) without food, take the bottle trap out until a week or so has passed and then try it. Make sure not to feed anything into the tank. I wouldn't try the pistol shrimp because it will most likely be killed by the mantis, thus giving it a food supply. Mantis shrimp are cautious by nature and seem to be planners. Sometimes the bottle trap works but sometimes the mantis is just too smart to fall for the trap.

I've never heard of a lfs that wanted a mantis shrimp. If you want to post the little guy here I'm sure someone will be glad to buy him from you.

Wewww. Long post, I'm going to take a nap. Good luck!

[wismie]

Thanks for your comments. I guess I'll try the bottle trap for a little while - and if that fails, then let's go for mantis fishing ...

[Mentat]

Hello Wismie and thanks for stating your desires to protect Mantis, we love to hear that. First of all, please do not pour soda water on a live rock. Probably will get mantis out, but have learned can hurt it and other live creatures in rock.

Obviously a working trap without rock movement is easiest, but Mantis are ocean smart and that makes it complicate. IRT trap: no feeding tank; remove possible prey during trapping season; keep bait fresh and try different types (foods, mirror, tickets to sports or theater event (could be a girl), etc.) and even try different bottles. Trap works, got Mantis! Doesn't, go to rock removal as plan B. Koshmar did a good write-up on technique to catch it. Remember using a big net and if available, a friend with another net line as back-up goalie close to other rocks.

One thing you could do once Mantis' rock is identified, is to remove whole rock to sump or other tank. Obviously, whole rock has to fit in net, Mantis could jump ship and swim to other side full of rocks. Once out of tank try to take a picture of the little one and we can identify. If one of smaller species, you could keep in sump refugium section or a little tank. If a bigger one and can't keep, recommend set-it up for adoption.

Well, Koshmar went to nap after his long thread and I'm hungry, so it's breakfast time LOL. Good luck and keep us informed.

[wismie]

There is no food in the tank for the time being (it's cycling, I added LRs and that's where the mantis comes from), except for some hitchhikers that went with the LRs - and probably served as food already, and a few coral frags from my other tank that I put there to ensure the water is ok (and food in the trap, obviously).

As per identifiying the rock and the hole, there is not much sand, rocks or shells that the mantis can use, as I didn't put any sand for the moment and siphon most garbage that falls from the rocks.

I have an idea where it was before I moved everything though (did my aquascaping last week) - are there chances that it came back in the same rock even if it has moved ? Are they kind of territorial with their "homes" ?

[Tangalong]

wismie, when you siphon up the rubble from your Live Rock, be sure to save it in a bucket of good salt water a little heater and an airstone. It will come in handy for several things; your mantis, should you decide to keep him/her; your refugium or your filter for biological purposes. They charge you for it in pet stores.

Happy Hunting !!!

[wismie]

Thanks for the advice, I have to admit I did get rid of it. I have a refugium in which I'll create a DSB (mainly sand from my actual tank), so now I'll keep it for my refugium.

[mykdf]

unfortunately, I'm in a similar boat as wisimie. I've got a new-ish tank and a two inch mantis. I had been cycling the tank for about the last three weeks. I kept hearing clicks and pops in the tank. The other day, I finally saw what I thought was the source of the popping . . . a small pistol shrimp. Weww. So I went out today and got myself some snails, peppermint shrimp and an emerald crab. No sooner do I drop those guys in there do I see the mantis.

Questions: I have a pretty substantial pod population going right now. Is he ever going to be interested in anything I could offer him as bait? He's not responded to the thawed silver sides that I've been using to trap crabs. Might he be interested in the crabs that I've caught?

BTW, hope I'm not high-jacking this thread. Figured that it was on-topic.

[lionbacker54]

i think with all that live food available, he's probably not going to go for the bottle trap. how about trying koshmar's way (see earlier in thread)?

[Koshmar]

Everyone wants the easy way though, my way requires moving big rocks and "working". I can see why so many people ask questions about bottle traps because it seems to be the easiest method to use. I really agree with Lionbacker about the food issue.
Just think of it as if you were the mantis. Should you risk going out of your nice burrow into the open or just stay inside and ambush something whenever it passes by? If there are many pods and easy prey in the tank there is no real need for the mantis to even touch the bait, much less come out of its burrow. Sorry mate, time to roll up those sleeves.... :(

[Tangalong]

The Stomatopods are talking.....they know the trap is bogus !!!

[mykdf]

I'm not afraid of the work, by any means. I am unable to track down the little monster (he's a monster in this tank, and a pet in a species specific tank). While it's possible he came in on the coral that I put in the tank yesterday, it seems unlikely. As such, he's been in the tank for nearly a month and I'd never seen him until I stocked the tank with 3 peppermints and an emerald. Koshmer's plan, starts with the idea that you know where the mantis lives. I do not.
I may have gotten a a bit of hint this mornging to his whereabouts by the placement of a peppermint shrimp corpse. I thought you guys said that mantis were diurnal. Well, this one ate my nocturnal shrimp at night! :-P I guess they're all individuals.

[enzo0000]

Can someone please elaborate on the bottle trap!! I've been hearing the popping and clicking in the middle of the night lately. This past weekend I was sneaking around the tank to see if I could notice anything...bamm...there stood and antennae sticking out of the bottom of a piece of LR at the bottom of the tank...the antennae was about 2 inches long and pitch black with some gray were the segments are (any ideas as to what it could be?).

I've notice my sally light foot in pieces..and it was not a baby. I have a cleaner shrimp, clown, yellow coris wrasse and is also full with coral and LR. Taking the tank apart would be a nightmare

Any help would be much appreciated...

I have a fish store that pretty much takes anything..I've already donated a mantis about 8 months ago (Sigh, should have kept him...i'm in the process of setting up a 10g mantis tank)..so if its something a 10g cant support, it will be donated...

Cheers

[mykdf]

To quote everybody's favorite mantis shrimp poster, Koshmar:

There is a thread about this where the guy was successful in getting his mantis out. If you are not prepared to take out the rock then it's the old bottle trap idea.
http://www.mantisshrimps.co.uk/articles/removal.php

[Koshmar]

Why thank you mykdf! However, everybody's favorite mantis shrimp poster is Dr. Roy Caldwell. In this forum he is god (flashback to matrix: reloaded scene in the subway).

That bottle trap article is authored by JustinL, just to clarify.

@ enzo - Sounds like a mantis, especially if the slf was in pieces (unless it's just the molt skin)...

@ mykdf - Don't worry about not knowing which rock it is in. A mantis either burrows within the rock itself or underneath it. I'm betting that once you start moving rocks around it will become startled and shoot out of its hidding place. When the little guy is out in the open, the job becomes much easier. Just keep us posted on your attempts and everyone here can recommend different methods of extraction. There's more than one way to catch a stomatopod.

[mykdf]

Koshmar-
I will try not to make the same mistake twice--Everybody's second favorite poster, we'll call it.

Anyway, how worried do I need to be about getting drilled by the little guy when I reach in there to move the rocks around? I don't really have any leather gloves that I want to wear in my little ecosystem.
Also, do you think I'm correct in thinking that he's probably in the vicinity of his latest meal? IOW, will he catch/kill his prey and then bring it back to his burrow to eat it?

I'm seriously pondering keeping him if I can catch him (turn him from monster to pet.) What does he eat (I mean other than my $12 shrimp?)

[mykdf]

Um. . . So, I kinda feel like I may have been a bit of an alarmist. I come home and find 1-2-3 peppermint shrimp in the 'ol DT. I think to myself, "Wait. I could'a swore I found a corpse in my tank this morning." Now, I'm pretty sure it was merely a molt--something I didn't expect after their very first night in my tank.

So, the upside is that my shrimp are not dead . . . the downside is that I'm back to having no idea where the mantis lives. I know I should trust Koshmar on this but I'm really reluctant to start tearing the tank apart with the hope that he'll come out of the rock. I just want to find where he calls home . . . or at least the general area.

Anyone got any ideas on how to get a mantis to show himself or his hidey-hole? Once I know that, I'll pull his home and put them both in a ten gallon.

[Koshmar]

I wouldn't be too worried about being smacked by the little guy, most of the time when they see a huge hand comming down and lifting their home up they shoot out all over the place. If you do get hit, it's not going to take your hand clean off or anything. Always wash your hands throughly and dry them before and after taking the plunge into a tank, lots of nasties in there. In the unlikely event you get smacked and the dactyl breaks skin, immediately wash your hands with warm water and soap, alcohol the area, bandage, at the most check with your local doctor just in case. Keep the area clean, infection is the worst senario. You should be fine though. You could always get some of those arm-length aquarium gloves from online if you are really concerned.

They do capture and pull/swim their prey into the burrow. I've never seen any of my three eat out in the open. They can also move things bigger than themselves quite easily.

You can keep trying the bottle trap or try something else. I won't be offended if you decide not to use my advise, on the contrary, if you find a better way please post it here. It's not like time is against you, just keep watching your tank, maybe at night to. It will show itself eventually. Oh and they love meaty food, mine love mysid shrimp the most.

[mykdf]

By way of update:
I came home today and just did it. I moved all the rocks and shook them vigorously underwater to dislodge the mantis. It did not work. (sigh)

Nonetheless, I will continue my mantis hunt! Time to revert to plan A again.

. . . that little jerk is in there clicking away to beat the band. It's like he's saying "ha ha" at me!

[Koshmar]

Oh my... :(
Well, that's the first time I've heard of it not working. I think you will just have to find which rock he is in and isolate the rock in another tank or sump. Sorry that didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

[mykdf]

Don't be sorry. It's not luke you're lurking about in my tank!

[mykdf]

Since I've seen both pistol shrimp and a mantis in my DT, I'm now trying to learn to distinguish between their clicks and pops. Like Koshmar said, I've got to isolate the rock that the mantis is in . . . can anyone offer any suggestions as to what I should be listening for?

On the limited research I've done, it sounds like both of them are making the clicking through cavitation. Is it even possible to distinguish between the two species by sound alone?

(wow. I've really hi-jacked this thread, haven't I?)

[wismie]

Yes you are hijacking my topic and I won't let you :D

The sound is very different between a pistol and a mantis. A pistol shrimp "click" is usually very loud, and usually it's only one-two at a time and then it stops.

Compared to it, the mantis is softer, and usually it's more a continuous thing. Like a click-click-click. At first I thought that there was a mechanical part in my tank that was making this noise.

Hope this help !

BTW, no news from my Mantis. Didn't even hear it lately. Needless to say that the trap did not work *yet*. I try to identify in which rock it hides, but no success so far.

[wismie]

btw, I am starting to get each of my rock out of the tank, one by one. I've read that they don't like salinity 1030 and higher up, and trying at the same time the air tubing in each hole I find.

Wish me good luck ! (I started with the rock in which I thought it was, but it seems it's not there... or hiding very well)

[lionbacker54]

good luck!

[wismie]

ok now all the rocks are out. I put each of them in a bath at about 1030 salinity, and tried to put air in every hole... but nothing :'(

Now I have to take it back, I guess I can only test now soda water unless someone has a better idea (of course soda water is something I avoided so far because I don't want to kill everything else on my rocks...)

[wismie]

I put back everything, dipped all the rocks in fresh (RO/DI) water + soda water... nothing.

Well I guess this one will stay in the tank... will try the bottle trap a bit more, but I didn't see any mantis (I didn't dream the first time, it was there...)

[Mentat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15134091#post15134091 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wismie
I put back everything, dipped all the rocks in fresh (RO/DI) water + soda water... nothing....
Watch ammonia and nitrites, that "dip" will probably throw biological balance off and might crash the tank's bacterial colony.

[wismie]

well there is nothing in the tank except rocks so it can cycle again...

and the shrimp of course

[Koshmar]

My god....
Well the only thing I can think of now is a hammer or producing large vibrations throughout the rock. Pretty extreme. I'm also thinking temperature change (though certainly potentially lethal for the mantis).

I'm thinking abstractly at this point. I would love for a more experienced member to give a crack at this though before doing anything above.

[wismie]

Thanks, I certainly won't destroy my rocks more than I already did ;)

Now I'll let the tank "cure" a bit and retry the bottle method. I think it didn't work so far because there are still lots of little critters available in the rocks (I see lots of clams shells on the ground)

[mykdf]

I'm in the same boat wismie-
I'm starting to doubt myself that I even saw the little green guy. Then again, I KNOW, ABSOLUTELY KNOW, that I saw a little green mantis.

I'm going to try the bottle trap again in a few days. I'm sort of trying to starve him out by not introducing any food into the tank (except for a silverside on a stick for about 10 minutes/day-my peppermints gotta eat, don't you know?)
I'll probably use one of the hitchhiker crabs I caught as bait. See if that works. The guy at the LFS didn't think that live brine shrimp would be worth much of a try.

Anyone have any idea what kind of mantis might ride in on some really nice rock from Bali? I've looked at Roy's List and still haven't come to a conclusion as to what I've got. Like I said before, he's green and 2 inches or less. I'm pretty sure I saw him hunting pods. I am also pretty sure that I've heard him clicking away (although I suppose it could be the pistol shrimp I've seen).

[Tangalong]

Have either of you tried using a power head and going over each rock...naturally paying particular attention to the "holes" and blasting them out? I'd use a nice strong one...shouldn't hurt them..but I know they hate that.

[wismie]

Didn't try that, but I certainly looked at each rock one by one as I removed everything. Will try the powerhead stuff, it won't hurt.

I didn't hear it for a few days, though, is it possible it's simply dead ? Seeing how it survived the trip to my tank, I wouldn't count on it, but on the other hand, I don't want to wait years to put livestock on my tank (I mean, once the cycle is completed)

[Tangalong]

Probably just hiding...poor thing's had the living daylights scared out of him. Hope the ph works....You might put a curved piece of PVC down and hope he makes a burrow out of it...they love those things.

[wismie]

You might put a curved piece of PVC down and hope he makes a burrow out of it...they love those things. [/B]

Ah this is a good idea... Actually I did the same in my small tank for my pistol shrimp who adopted it quickly... wonder why I didn't think of it. Will try !

[KDDG]

I'm in the same boat with you guys. We started with 5 & we have only caught 1. One of the remaining mantis is about 3". I know where they all live. We have tried the high salinity dip. I also blew water directly in the large mantis's hole. He did not emerge. Then he just looked at me like "Who told you that would work? HA!" Then he built a little shell door so I could not look at him anymore that day. I have to admit I'm growing kind of fond of him. I am considering setting him up a tank if I ever catch him. The others are sneaky, too. So, I guess we'll keep trying the bottle trap if there are no other ideas...

[Koshmar]

This is really something else. I can't believe all of these things haven't worked. We need to figure out a magic bullet method to trap any mantis everytime. This frustrates me and I'm not even trying to remove them myself! I'm thinking about playing off the strengths and weaknesses of the stomatopod itself.
Where are they weak?
1. During a molt obviously.
2. They require sufficient calcium to create their exoskeleton.
3. Temperature must be stable.
4. Salinity must be stable.
5. Oxygen concentration.
6. Ph levels.
7. Nutritional requirements: meat.

I'm thinking if we can do something with the rock or introduce something to make the mantis leave the rock yet not harm it. Arghhh, racking my brain on this...

[wismie]

You say you're not trying to remove them yourself... do you have a dedicated tank for them or do you just accept the casualties that will occur with the other inhabitants ? I might take this way, if needed *sighs*

[Koshmar]

I have two dedicated tanks for my three stomatopods and cuttlefish. I use plastic dividers to prevent mantis murder.

Don't give up but if you do decide to leave the mantis in the tank you should know that their reputation is drastically overblown. If you keep it well fed the chances of it killing other inhabitants will be reduced.

[wismie]

That's also what my LFS says. He has the same (corner) tank than me at home (never seen it, though) and also has a mantis that came with the rocks inside. He didn't try to remove it and says that he sees his mantis from time to time at feeding time. Apparently, he didn't had any casualties due to the mantis.

But I guess it's a bit a question of chance here, some will leave the other inhabitants quiet and some other won't.

[mykdf]

I sure hope y'all are right about the mantis's reputation for murder being overblown. I got tired of looking at my empty tank and put some fish in there. Heck, the mantis did not kill the peppermint shrimps or emerald crab . . . as of today, he has not killed my barred goby or ocellaris clowns. I figure he will or he won't. Hopefully, as time goes on, he'll get more adventuresome and come out a bit more. If he starts coming out, I'll redouble my efforts to catch him. At this point, I've sort of given up. Ill try the bottle trap every now and again but . . .

Keep your fingers crossed for my fish! I certainly have mine crossed.

[wismie]

Good luck with your fishes and shrimps, I probably will follow the same path... in a few days !

[mykdf]

by way of an update:

Nobody's dead yet and I've not seen my mantis since that one and only time (just enough to completely freak me out and prove to me that he was actually there).

[wismie]

Ok now I can confirm I have two mantises (well, at least).

One is quite small (2-3 cms), brown/black, and is the one I saw initially. A few days ago, I saw a bigger one (5-6 cms), green with brown spots, quite nice.

I could not take any pcitures, that was just too fast. They seem to have shared the aquarium, one is on the right side, the other one on the left.

I did populate my aquarium, with hermit crabs, fishes, astrea and shrimps (2 cleaner shrimps and 3 blood shrimps).

Main casualties seem to be the astreas and the hermit crabs, although the small ones seems to be ok. Otherwise, so far everyone seem to live happily with those two monsters in the tank !