leafy sea dragon

[Iwishihadgills]

I heard that someone in australia was breeding these guys and selling them. Anyone know where this is? or how to get to it?

[Pulp Fishin]

They are a controled species and exporting them is against the law last I checked.

[Iwishihadgills]

yeah i heard that but i also heard that if they are tank bred its legal.(like a loopwhole)

[Heterodonut]

If you are serious, I can put you in touch with a wholesaler in Japan that can ship them into the U.S. Price is about $3,000 each, plus you can expect to spend about a grand on shipping and handling, and about another grand for F & W and customs clearance. So for about eight grand or a tad more you could get a pair. I've gotten sharks from this gentleman, he is very reliable. BTW, even for captive bred, you still may need to prove you are a public aquarium, or a research facilty in order to get them into the country. Asian arrowanas are farm bred by the thousands, but buying/owning one in this country can still land you jail time and a hefty fine. North of the border in Canada, you can buy the at the lfs. Does not matter that they are captive bred. Uncle SAM has nothing better to do.

[namxas]

one thing to consider about keeping seadragons, beside the cost or the animals and the permit, is they require a HUGE coolwater tank...we're talking a 6' cube here, so factor in the cost of such a tank as well as the cost of chilling it into the equation.

[Heterodonut]

Namxas, Another good point. I have a 14' diameter round tank 4' deep that I can chill no problem. Don't have the extra cash right now for a pair of dragons, even though I could get the paperwork through based on research.

[namxas]

wow...i bet that would be a fun setup...

[philter4]

Heterodonut, I'm not sure where you got your shipping info, but I import from Japan regularly and the costs are much less then you quoted, first the freight charges are around $2 per kilo, with a $100 minimum, a single fish would cost no more then that as each fish box weighs about 36 pound or 17 kilos. F&W charges are set at $55.00 per shipment not per animal so that isn't a factor unless you ask for overtime which is $110.00, again per shipment, not animal so if you get more then one animal per shipment the costs comes down. As far as the sea dragons themselves, they are legal to import/export as long as they are collected with a permit and sent with CITES documents, which are provided by the Australian govt at time of export.

[Heterodonut]

Philter4, Yeah, I guess my freight charges were based on sharks that had to have large enough containers for them, so they were limited to only flying on wide bodied jets. Dragons could fit in a standard shipping box. I don't know about where you live, but for me, if youir not paying a broker, your not gonna get through F & W and customs quickly.
For an individual to get them shipped in, I'd budget a grand for shipping and the appropriate paperwork and broker fees. Now if you can have a pair shipped to my airport for $155, I'll take you up on the offer. Put me down for a Pair!

[seattleguy]

So are the SeaDragons that would be procured from the wholesaler in Japan going to be legal documented animals?

[seattleguy]

I know a guy in the US Army that smuggled in a dozen "Blue Poison Arrow Frogs". This species was not know at all in the hobby. He got a local University Biology Professor involved who was able to get permission for him to keep but not sell them. About six months later he had 300 baby frogs and was allowed to sell them because they were born in the USA.

I wonder if this applies to these animals?

[namxas]

FWIW, oceanproaquatics Has them in stock for little over $4,000. They are bred in Austrailia and have a permit. There are only a few.
A friend of mine spoke to the Owner of the franchise (6 3 2009).

i also understand that they're being VERY picky about who they sell to, and only those with a proper setup and experience are getting them.

[Heterodonut]

Yes, the dragons from Japan would be legal. As noted above now you can avoid the hassle of importation that oceanpro has done that part already. At $4,800 each, it is still a bit o dough for a pair, but that will help deter a newbie from saying, gee I think it would be cool to have seadragons!

[kenqc]

i just went to their site. They have a pretty impressive list of critters (fish and otherwise). $4800 seems like a lot of money for an animal so delicate with extra care required. I myself would not take the chance, but I would admire anyone with the guts and the pocket book to give it a try.

[twinspots_goby]

maintenance cost in the long run is huge.

[nanafish]

I think that the food requirements would be a major obstical. They eat live mysis. I'm sure it is available, but at what cost???I too had seen the website OceanProAquatics. There is also a small matter of some special licensing procurement as well. These are considered an Exotic animal and there are certain states that put the kybash on private owneship of ANY exotic animal- fin,fur & feather. So be sure to do your paperwork and research. SOme places may not refund in case you do find the $$ to pay for this dream animal due to your ingorance of the local laws.

[unstopable]

When i hit the lotto man will this hobby truly become a dream.

[PierAquarium]

Breeding of Leafy Sea Dragons has never occurred in captivity. This has been a goal for many professional aquarists at public aquariums around the world, and yet no luck so far. There is one person in the world that can legally collect these guys in order to sell them. He resides in Australia, and is permitted to collect one male with eggs per year. The male will give birth in his facility, and then the young will be reared and sold while the father will be released back to the wild. Their main diet is live mysis, however, you can transition them to eating a nutritious brand of frozen mysis, and even enriched live ghost shrimp. Leafies are extremely sensitive to any abrupt change. Just a sudden illumination of your lights can send them into a convulsion. They are also susceptible to uronema and mycobacterium infestations in captivity, especially if you do not keep up with vacuuming out their poop and decaying food.

So, to sum it up, Leafy Sea Dragons are expensive to purchase, if they die in transit, you will not get your money back or receive a new animal, they are extremely finicky, they need cold water and a big tank, they eat only expensive food in which they need almost a constant supply, you have to work your butt off on a daily basis to ensure they are happy, and the best aquarist is lucky to get them to live to 5 years.
If you are going to make the commitment to keeping sea dragons, you may want to research weedie sea dragons, I am not sure if they are available to the hobby, but they are typically a bit cheaper and sometimes a little hardier.

[ReefNutPA]

I see David123 is on this website.... hopefully he will add his vast knowledge to this thread as he is familiar with this species as well.

Tom

[Iwishihadgills]

dang i started this awhile back and thoght no one knew much about these guys thanks for the great info and btw i dont think working as a pizza guys are gonna get me even the chiller for these guys haha

[Bongo Shrimp]

Here's the link to a place where you can buy one. First of all they cost about $5000. Second, you need a license/permit. And third, I wouldn't do it because I would not want to kill such a spectacular and delicate animal.


Link: http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/shop/leafy-dragon-phycodurus-eques-ships-free-p-19767.html

[mal40]

It is only illegal to have, collect or interact with them in countries covered by Australian law. As far as I can tell they are not CITES listed, and can be freely imported and sold in the USA, provided local laws are complied with. As most local and state laws take their lead from CITES listings, this will not be an issue.

I think you will find that both species of common seadragons are being captive bred, but I would guess that most of the stock avaliable is from captive born stock.

Although it is reported that only one person in the whole world can collect a single leafy each year, it is known that several are taken each year, and the stock made avalable. I am unsure of the legality or truth of the one per year story?

They are avalable from places like Singapore from stock. ie No wait time, shipping same week. And as there is no CITES listing, and Singapore is not Australia, the shipping is perfectly legal under international and US laws.

Ownership in the US is fully and completely legal.

[Elysia]

Hmmm, where is David? He would know more of the truth than the lore.

[David123]

Gday folks,

Dragons are lovely, but quite delicate, and need lots of space, huge.

I believe the weedy is a much prettier and active dragon than the leafy, she is very beautiful, but is a camouflage hunter, and so hardly moves, a tad boring.

They can be converted to frozen very easily, but nutrition, as with all creatures, but especially the dragons, is important.

As far as I'm aware, its not illegal to have dragons in oz, as long as you can show the permit holders name and number so as to show where you got them from.

There is only one leafy collector, used to be me, but times change. Leafys are very spiky, and can puncture your skin easy, so transporting them as adults can be tricky, as they can and do, puncture the bags, or get stuck in heavy ones.

There are no Captive bred leafys as far as I know, but I don't think it will be long before this holy grail is reached, small steps.

[roger5443]

took this photo at sea world orlando. they have several beautiful aquariums but this one soley dedicated to the leafy dragon :)
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/roger5443/181P0509.jpg
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/roger5443/181P05080.jpg

[lucycat]

if they are advertising sea dragons as tank bred they are breaking the law ,the only place that has bred dragons successfully in a tank is in the usa and they are not selling any as far as im aware