DIY Stand - Is it structurally sound? (Sketch'd Up)

[EvMiBo]

The stand is 72" long and 18.5" wide. It will be for a 90g RR (corner overflow) tank. I wanted some extra room for wires etc to be concealed; a vertical cabinet will be added in the empty spot next to the tank. I really think this will be solid but want to get a couple peoples opinions.. The gap in the back is there to fit in the 4' sump (49" gap). Let me know what you think!

by the way, all of the wood is 2x4s besides the inside corners (2x2's).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90build2paint.jpg

[KevinYates]

wow that looks like an amazing program? mind sharing.

[james3370]

stand looks like it should be plenty supportive

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15109187#post15109187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KevinYates
wow that looks like an amazing program? mind sharing.

Google Sketchup (http://sketchup.google.com/)

[kcress]

I'm not wood stand type, but it would seem to me that you really should have a vertical in the middle of that back span. Four feet is too far for an unsupported span in my opinion.

[uncleof6]

Move the supports on the left under the corners of the tank. You will loose some sump access in the back, but that is where the support needs to be. Under all four corners. This way, the span will make no difference as it is not load bearing. I am not a lumber stand fan either, preferring steel or all plywood, as the sump options are greater-- because there is more room inside the stand, and the sump will usually slide in from the end because you don't have 2 x 4s in the way. Standard rimmed glass tanks require support under the four corners. Lumber stands are all ridiculously overbuilt. (of course so are steel stands......... )

FWIW,

Jim

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15109187#post15109187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KevinYates
wow that looks like an amazing program? mind sharing.

Check out the sketchup thread, I shamelessly bumped it to the front page.

Jim

[EvMiBo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15110697#post15110697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Move the supports on the left under the corners of the tank. You will loose some sump access in the back, but that is where the support needs to be. Under all four corners. This way, the span will make no difference as it is not load bearing. I am not a lumber stand fan either, preferring steel or all plywood, as the sump options are greater-- because there is more room inside the stand, and the sump will usually slide in from the end because you don't have 2 x 4s in the way.

Well. I need to get a 4' sump in there, and with the model shown, the only way to get it in would be from that gap in the back. But, if I'm not getting an abundant two thumbs up from everyone I don't want to push that idea and risk a catastrophe. Luckily the sump is a 40long (48"L x 13"W) so coming in from the side is feasible if I build with plywood.. I would imagine. I can see steel getting really expensive and part of the reason I want to do this project is to save money (correct me if I'm worng about the steel being an expensive project). Can anyone guide me to a reliable "plan" with using plywood? I've heard of it being used and successful but haven't really looked into it.

[uncleof6]

I have a sketchup of a plywood stand, but it is rather "fancy" (it is not finished either) and is a take off of RedEdge2k1's build. His can be found here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499

Steel stands can cost a few dollars, if you are not a welder type.

Jim

[Russ750]

Hey bud! I'm actually finishing up the stand for my 125, and I made it longer than the tank like in your design, but with the vertical cabinets on both ends. One thing I'd suggest is not leaving the opening for the sump in the back. If you ever need to remove it, you don't want to have to tear down the whole setup. Also, make sure you add/move the braces on the bottom so there will be a frame to support the sump.
I should be putting pics of mine up on our local site soon, but if you'd like to come down and see it before then to get some ideas, that would be fine.

[therealfatman]

The stand is fine as it is as long as a skin of plywood will be used over the frame. Actually it is a bit over built. The vertical support under the middle of the tank in front is not needed as a four foot tank can easily be supported by just its ccorners or ends. I would consider adding plywood over the frame other than the access areas to prevent racking, otherwise I would recommend Resorcinol glue be used on all joints.
http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=2060&iorb=4764
It should be avaialble at any large hardware store

[GatorEngineer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15111198#post15111198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
I have a sketchup of a plywood stand, but it is rather "fancy" (it is not finished either) and is a take off of RedEdge2k1's build. His can be found here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499

that link has a pretty good setup. but ev, i think yours is fine as long as you add the skin of plywood.

[EvMiBo]

I appreciate all the advice. Since I have the time, I'm "sketching up" another stand sort of copying rededge2k1's design/idea just to see how it comes out. I like the idea of it being a bit less cluttered inside (as long as it's strong!). I'll probably have something up sometime today.

I sent rededge a PM, but does anyone know if the tank itself sits on the side panels, 2x6 in front and the 3/4" cutout plywood in the back.. OR only on the 2x6 in front and the cut out 3/4" plywood in the back?

I would assume its the 3 instead of the 2, but just want to be sure ;) .

[jefathome]

It looks plenty strong in the corners. You might want a support under the mid point of the tank in back though. The 48in 2x4 span in back may sag a bit. The other option is to use a 2x6 (on end) along the rear. It will have much less sagging. I remember that when I was building our patio cover in the back yard I found something that said a 2x6 has almost 2x sag resistance of a 2x4 on end.

When I built my stand (48in) I wedged a 2x4 support in along the back and once the tank had been filled the support was impossible to remove (ie, the rear horizontal 2x4 sagged enough to load up the 2x4 I had wedged in there).

[EvMiBo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15112805#post15112805 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jefathome
It looks plenty strong in the corners. You might want a support under the mid point of the tank in back though. The 48in 2x4 span in back may sag a bit. The other option is to use a 2x6 (on end) along the rear. It will have much less sagging. I remember that when I was building our patio cover in the back yard I found something that said a 2x6 has almost 2x sag resistance of a 2x4 on end.

When I built my stand (48in) I wedged a 2x4 support in along the back and once the tank had been filled the support was impossible to remove (ie, the rear horizontal 2x4 sagged enough to load up the 2x4 I had wedged in there).

Good point, if I stay with that model I think I'd add that to the mix and take the 2x4 in the back out. To be honest though, this plywood construction seems to make things a bit easier IMO.

[EvMiBo]

Alright I'm done for today I think but got some real progress in the plywood plan on sketchup. The sump will be able to slide in on the right side (first pic). I still need to add some 2x2s for plywood + sump to sit on. I'm going to put a big piece of plywood on top of the stand to spread out the weight (will drill it for the bulkheads). I still plan to add that vertical cabinet/shelf to the left, just want to make sure this will hold the tank first ;)

front, high view
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/ply1.jpg

[ah30k]

FYI - did you know you can export 2d jpegs from the 'file' menu rather than doing screen shots?

[EvMiBo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15113860#post15113860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ah30k
FYI - did you know you can export 2d jpegs from the 'file' menu rather than doing screen shots?

sure didn't, started using sketchup 3 days ago, thanks :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90buildPLY.jpg

[uncleof6]

That should work fine. Look at all the room you got inside that thing. Now get a huge bubble king.................

Jim

[therealfatman]

Looks great as long as you have good strong corner joints. If you look at commercial ply wood or ply covered particle board stands you will notice the joints are glued. Glue is pretty cheap assurance of a strong stand joint not seen with just screws and nails being used. With glued corner pieces the corners inside piece is typically only 3/4 inch square. Saves even more interior room. With glue being used the vertical supports under the cross brace would also not be need as plywood has more than adequate compressive strength.

[EvMiBo]

I have some duoKlamps (bessey) and spring clamps that I plan on holding the glue down with.. After sometime letting the glue dry, I plan on predrilling some holes and securing the corner joints with screws.

I'm pretty new to DIY projects and woodworking in general but I guess we all have to start somewhere.. :smokin:

[GatorEngineer]

any improvements or updates?

[EvMiBo]

Changed a couple things, makes more sense and is probably more stable/stronger. final product for the most part.. did the email I sent you work, max? I don't exactly know for sure how to send a file from sketchup to someone else yet so they can edit it and work on it, etc - so let me know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90buildPLY2d1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90buildPLY2d2.jpg

[therealfatman]

You could hold up a double decker tank with that stand. Good design. I would decease the size of the corner glue blocks down to say 3/4" square to provide more usable inside room.

[xpxdx]

i used pocket screws done with a kreg jig for my 3/4" plywood stand for my 40 breeder project... seems to be working great so far!

http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=32

[EvMiBo]

Thanks therealfatman, thats not a bad idea on the corner glue blocks, it would save me 1.5" of width on the ends inside the tank.

xpxdx, have any pictures of your setup and the pocket screws? I wanted to use the pocket screw/kreg jig, I'm just not positive exactly where the best places are for it to be used..

[drtrash]

How common are bottom skinning stands? Not sure if it's structural or more leveling?

[james3370]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15232255#post15232255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvMiBo
Thanks therealfatman, thats not a bad idea on the corner glue blocks, it would save me 1.5" of width on the ends inside the tank.

xpxdx, have any pictures of your setup and the pocket screws? I wanted to use the pocket screw/kreg jig, I'm just not positive exactly where the best places are for it to be used..

here are clickable thumbs of where i used pocket drilling on some of my stand (1st pic) & screw-thru on some (2nd pic)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/temp/th_pocketdrill.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/temp/pocketdrill.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/temp/th_screwthru.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/tank/temp/screwthru.jpg)

[xpxdx]

here's my thread, it really needs updating, since i've painted the stand and doors, and it's almost ready to be set up...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1592081

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15230144#post15230144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvMiBo
Changed a couple things, makes more sense and is probably more stable/stronger. final product for the most part.. did the email I sent you work, max? I don't exactly know for sure how to send a file from sketchup to someone else yet so they can edit it and work on it, etc - so let me know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90buildPLY2d1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/90buildPLY2d2.jpg

Just attach the sketchup file (ext .skp) to the email, and send it. The recipient can save the file to the hard drive, click on it, and it will open in sketchup-- as long as they have sketchup installed. Nothing special is needed to send it. :)

Jim

[GatorEngineer]

those pocket screws look pretty helpful

[therealfatman]

I would leave out the upright in the large door opening. An opening that size in a quality commercially built stand seldom ever has an upright as corner support and the support at the perimeter by that wide plywood is more than adequate. Usually one of the doors just has a thin strip of wood attached to it so as to cover the gap bewwen the doors so as to give the appearance of a center bar being present.

[EvMiBo]

good point therealfatman..

that way i can sleep in there as well :lol:

[EvMiBo]

I really hope everyone is still following along.

Due to financial reasons I'm going to be getting a 50g (36x18x18) instead of the 90g (I plan on drilling with a glass-holes.com box). This will save me money on lighting, sump, skimmer, return pump, etc.. I have always liked the look of shallow reefs so this isn't all bad.

I've re-done the sketchup (same idea). I still have a couple things to add, (corner joints, etc.) but just want to make sure I don't have to put a middle support in the larger of the 2 gaps. The gap size is 28.5" with a 6" top and 4.5" bottom. Encase you're curious, the stand is 60"L 19"W 40"H.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/50buildply1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/50buildply2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/50BUILDply3.jpg

[wooden_reefer]

The revised is much better. For the original: the vertical members are too narrow.

The way the vertical members (long grain) are joined to the vertical members (end-grain) is a concern. What is the joinery? Is it now one piece?

The important part is to make sure that the the stand does not sway.

[EvMiBo]

The most recent post is designed from 3/4" plywood, so yes, each side is one piece with holes cut out of it. The most recent post is what I intend on doing. I know the original had some flaws so i switched it up, then switched up my system so I made a smaller stand design for the 50 (instead of 90), taking the new ideas from the "revised" version previously. Look alright?

[RumLad]

Only one comment. If you are not planning on adding any decorative moldings over the edges, I would have the front panel overlap the side panels such that the end grain of the end panels are not viewable from the front.
Other than that, it is great to see another stand that is not overdone with dimensional lumber. Use a good wood glue for all joined surfaces, a few screws to hold them together during the cure and you will get many years of service from this stand.

[EvMiBo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15316479#post15316479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RumLad
Only one comment. If you are not planning on adding any decorative moldings over the edges, I would have the front panel overlap the side panels such that the end grain of the end panels are not viewable from the front.
Other than that, it is great to see another stand that is not overdone with dimensional lumber. Use a good wood glue for all joined surfaces, a few screws to hold them together during the cure and you will get many years of service from this stand.

Thank you for the advice rumlad, the only thing that worries me is that that will make my side panel legs 3/4" skinnier on each leg (I have to keep a 14" gap to slide in my 13" wide sump). The side legs would be 1 3/4" wide, would this be ok?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/EvaN8/50BUILDply4b.jpg

[RumLad]

So I take it that's a NO on the decorative moldings then? :lol:

I don't think the slight decrease in the side ligaments would create a problem. But if it would make you more comfortable, and make using the stand that much easier, then by all means keep it the way you had it.

FWIW, you can buy any number of corner moldings that are a piece of cake to install. If you are the least bit competent at cutting a miter joint (simple 45's) you shouldn't have any problems.

[EvMiBo]

As long as it can still be sturdy it's not a bad idea, I'm trying to keep the construction of it under $100 (wood) so I will definitely take a look at the corner molding at lowes today. I'm not looking for anything fancy so we'll see what I can find. Thanks for the advice I might just have to take it ;)

[james3370]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15317114#post15317114 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvMiBo
As long as it can still be sturdy it's not a bad idea, I'm trying to keep the construction of it under $100 (wood) so I will definitely take a look at the corner molding at lowes today. I'm not looking for anything fancy so we'll see what I can find. Thanks for the advice I might just have to take it ;)

they make a nice 1/2 round trim that is a L shape on the back that should work great, be easy to tack on & look good. it's cheap too....priced by the foot ;)

[RumLad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15317932#post15317932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3370
they make a nice 1/2 round trim that is a L shape on the back that should work great, be easy to tack on & look good. it's cheap too....priced by the foot ;)
Unfortuneatly, this may not be the case at ALL Lowes :( The one near me only sells moldings in 8 ft sesctions, minimum. HD, on the other hand (right across the street from lowes) has a tape measure and saw on a bench in the molding section such that you can cut any size piece you need, and pay accordingly. Guess where I go most often?

[james3370]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15317985#post15317985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RumLad
Unfortuneatly, this may not be the case at ALL Lowes :( The one near me only sells moldings in 8 ft sesctions, minimum. HD, on the other hand (right across the street from lowes) has a tape measure and saw on a bench in the molding section such that you can cut any size piece you need, and pay accordingly. Guess where I go most often?

maybe it was home depot i got mine at.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/smileys/crazy.gif

i was at both so much during the building of mine, the guys in lumber & plumbing all referred to me as "aquarium guy" LOL
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/smileys/hahano2.gif

[EvMiBo]

:lol:

well I've been to 2 lowes today. I'm going to hit up HD tonight or tomorrow to take a look around at prices and selection. I saw the 1/2" 8' trim at the first one but forgot to look for it at the second (they didn't have it by the foot). They have 3 hardwoods I'm looking at (all 3/4" 4'x8'): Blondewood @ about $45 a sheet, and Birch and Oak at $50 a sheet. I initially was checking out the blondewood but read some negative things about it (Birch and Oak are much stronger). So now its just a matter of the look of grain, and I'm leaning towards Oak.

I was also checking out different cuts for the inside corners.. I want to conserve a little room so I think I'm going to pick up 2 pieces of the 1x2 strips. I plan on gluing them, but when the glue is drying (I'll have them clamped in) should I nail or screw them? Also, should it be done from the inside or outside?

I really appreciate all the help I've gotten from everyone, I'd be lost without you guys :)

Evan

[RumLad]

Clamped and glued should be fine, really no need for screws, IMO.
As for the Birch vs. Oak discussion, do you have a plan for finishing the stand? Reason I ask is the Oak tends to take a stain better and the Birch is much easier to paint.
Take a real close look at the finished surfaces of the Oak plywood and you will see hundreds of small holes in the surface. These take stain well, but not paint. If you require a smooth finish, it takes many cycles of painting and sanding to get Oak to be smooth. Birch gets it done in a snap.

[james3370]

^^^ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/james3370/smileys/werd.gif

i used what home depot calls "sandply" for mine as i was planning on painting & wanted the smoothest material. i also hit it real good w/ a random orbital sander before priming & painting

[EvMiBo]

I plan on doing a polyurethane with a stain inside of it (not painting), so from the sounds of it I should go Oak. I want a light finish; I liked the look of "honey pine." I just haven't decided whether to go gloss or satin yet..

here's what I was checking out today:

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/21385.067166331034E_4.jpg