Help with glass room/ceiling coral prop system!

[jrod11]

Hi Everyone,

A buddy of mine is moving into a house that has an ALL GLASS workout room in his backyard. He has been collecting corals for a while now and he asked me to make a design and post it on here for feedback and suggestions. (he doesnt use RC.) The workout room walls and cieling are glass the house has this, he thought this would be an excellent opportunity to take out the workout equipment and build an aquaculturing system.


He already has to following equipment he had hope to use in the system:

-300 gallon rubbermaid tub
-80 gallon frag tank
-220 gallon "L" shape tank (going to be sump and storage

The "L" 220 gallon tank will be divided in half. One half will become the sump/fuge, and the other half will be a storage area for salt water for the water changes.

Here is a design that we hope to get some feedback and was also wondering if anyone has any experience using natural sunlight with a greenhouse. Thanks and looking forward to any suggestions!

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/38974a20547ad3ed5.jpg

[mrsmithers]

So its like a "green house"?, Watch the temp in the room

[jrod11]

Yea it pretty much is a green house. Planning on getting a large chiller and heaters to maintain the temp.

[diveman05]

should work you may actually have to come up with a way to shade it if it gets to much sun to keep down on algae growth

[The Big Tuna]

Hello,
I have been running my coral gh for almost 3 years now. I think you will have some serious issues to overcome wt this setup.

1 The glass that the room is constructed of will more than likely filter out the UV from the sunlight. MOST glass have UV inhibitors in them. No UV = brown corals.

2 You will be getting too much light & will need to have shadecloth, prefferably blue.

3 I will be amazed if you can keep the temp in specs wt a large chiller, wich will cost alot of $$ to purchase & run.

4 If this room is connected to the house wo any exterior ventilation, than all that moist salty air will be going into the house.

Not trying to bust yer bubble but I just want you to know what yer getting into bf yall spend a bunch of loot!!!

Joshua

[jrod11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15126146#post15126146 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Big Tuna
Hello,
I have been running my coral gh for almost 3 years now. I think you will have some serious issues to overcome wt this setup.

1 The glass that the room is constructed of will more than likely filter out the UV from the sunlight. MOST glass have UV inhibitors in them. No UV = brown corals.

2 You will be getting too much light & will need to have shadecloth, prefferably blue.

3 I will be amazed if you can keep the temp in specs wt a large chiller, wich will cost alot of $$ to purchase & run.

4 If this room is connected to the house wo any exterior ventilation, than all that moist salty air will be going into the house.

Not trying to bust yer bubble but I just want you to know what yer getting into bf yall spend a bunch of loot!!!

Joshua


Joshua,
Thanks for the feedback- I really appreciate it. I am glad you brought up these points.

I will have my buddy look into what type of glass this is so that we can determine the UV effects of it. We will be getting a very large chiller that can run the system to help keep it cool. We live coastal, so it doesnt get too hot hopefully.

The glass house is in the back yard so it is not connected to the house vent system.

Do you have any more info on your setup i can check out? a build thread maybe?

[Steven Pro]

What direction does it face (north, south, east, or west)?

[jrod11]

it faces west. I noticed you have a a greenhouse farm. Do you have a build thread or a site documenting it? I would love to read about it!

[Steven Pro]

I do have a build thread, but not on this forum. You should be able to find it by searching for Steven Pro greenhouse.

West is not optimal as you will only be getting the late day sun.

[jrod11]

Thanks for the pointers Steven. Have to rethink the setup with my buddy.

[The Big Tuna]

jrod11,
Are all 4 sides of the structure made of glass, or just the "front" wall?

Joshua

[jrod11]

Called my buddy this morning and got some specs on the glasshouse in the backyard. (i'll be checking it out in person tomorrow, he just moved in)

All four sides of the walls are all glass, unfortunately we do think that they have some sort of UV filter on them since most glass does that gets installed for house use. However, the cieling is an opaque plexi glass / plastic that we are hoping might let some UV through....hopefully?

There is a small indoor resistance pool, so i'm assuming that its the same kinda stuff that most indoor pool coverings. We have some lighting units that can do the whole system, we were just hoping to try and supplement with natural light.

[FTexas]

i have noticed that on my 150 that is in the kitchen w/ 3 large windows in front, that if i supplement w/ any natural light i get algae blooms like crazy. i am very serious about my water quality so i alwasy attribute it to my wife opening the blinds while i am gone for the weekend. also, you can tint the windows. i managed a car audio and tint shop for 4 years. we also did commercial tint, and it always cut down on heat through the windows, and on electricity costs. just an idea.

[The Big Tuna]

Bill,
Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong about sunlight causing algae blooms. It's an old wives tail in aquarium keeping that still persists for some reason. I have a greenhouse set up entirely for hard & soft coral grow out & production. My 4 x 350 gal systems are lit exclusively by sunlight wt no artificial light for the corals whatsoever, and no algae issues in 2 years now... algae blooms are produced by high nutrient levels, not high light levels.

Joshua

[jrod11]

Ok, so I went over to my buddy's house today and I have some pictures to update you all. (he just moved in a few days ago) I'm not really sure if this is even going to work at all. I told him about all of the suggestions and pointers that everyone has mentioned above and we now are up in the air of this is even going to work or not. We believe in aquaculturing, so this would just be a growth system for fun and for trading in the local community.

Hopefully these pictures can help everyone provide me with some suggestions and info. Sorry about the bad quality, i had to use my camera phone.

Here is a shot from the outside:
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/38974a29e4f39af1f.jpg

Here is a shot of the inside. There are TONS of electrical outlets throughout and also the floor is concrete. in the middle of the floor is a drain! The blue at the bottom of the picture is a resistance swimming pool about 20' x 10'

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/38974a29e5ed31e76.jpg

I took a close up of the roof which is some sort of white plastic.
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/38974a29e382e10ae.jpg

I'm assuming that any natural sunlight isnt going to do anything beneficial, but i'm appreciative of any feedback. Its great to get opinions and even criticism before we make any mistakes. Basically my buddy and I enjoy this wonderful hobby and we are looking to take it to the next level with this system. Thanks again!

[hansmatt]

ummm...I think you could grow a little bit in that space. Looks great!

[CLINTOS]

I like it wish it was mine lol beautiful room

maybe small mh pendant blue if he chooses

[Steven Pro]

Do you have or can you borrow from a fish friend or local fish club an Apogee PAR meter? It would be very useful in determining if there is enough light getting into the place.

[jrod11]

That is a great idea. I will hit up the local forum and see if anyone has one. Any other major snags or pointers that you can see Steve? This help is greatly appreciated!

[Steven Pro]

When I originally saw the question, I envisioned a lean-to type structure or some other style of building attached to the house. Hence the question about which way it faces. This is a completely different ballgame. Could you put up a simple drawing showing the layout and dimensions of the building along with which way is North?

[jrod11]

Absolutely. I looked on google maps and the glass house faces south west, and not completely west like i had originally thought.
There are also no trees or any other objects that even come close to casting a shadow near the glass house.

Additionally, i think temperature control will be an obstacle, but I forgot to note in the first post that we are locate about 2 miles from the beach in san diego. I think this will be a little less difficult than on the east coast for example. Thanks again for the input!

[The Big Tuna]

jrod11,
I think you can control temps where your at, with some basic modifications. You have plenty of windows in the structure, I would look at putting the biggest exaust fan that you can in the short wall opposite the sliding door/entrance wall. This should be hooked up to a controller and you can leave the rest of the windows open in the hot seasons. If you need more direct cooling than that, you can also add some squirrel cage style blower fans (hooked up on submersible 2 stage controller) to blow across the surface of the tanks for direct evaporative cooling. This is how I keep my GH tanks stable in the summertime here in NC where the humidity & temperature are much higher than where your at I would assume. My greenhouse air temps can get into the mid to high 90s with 60% - 80% humidity for weeks on end. The hottest my tanks ever got to in the last 2 summers was 82oF. I have never used a chiller.

The white stuff on the roof is fiberglass sheating that was put onto the roof panels to act as a shade cloth to cut down on the light & heat to make it more comfy for people that are exercising in the room. Ditch it, it's wasting sunlight. You will however need some shadecloth for the corals in the tanks. You want to use the blue ones, not the black ones. I use a 30% blue shadecloth in the late fall, winter & early spring. I use a & a 70% blue shadecloth for the rest of the year. No shadecloth = toasted corals. Make shure you try to find out if the glass on the house blocks UV or not. If it doesn't you should never have to worry about supplemental lighting. I shure don't...

Looks promising,
Joshua

[jrod11]

Josh,
thanks for the great info.

I am picking up a PAR meter from a local reefer this weekend to see how much light actually comes through.

The bummer is that my buddy is renting this house, so unfortunately the fiberglass roof has to stay :(

I think supplemental lighting is a route we cant avoid, but its just a question of how much now. Thanks for the advice everyone. I will update this thread this weekend.

[badguitarist]

The Big Tuna:
could you explain why blue shade cloth is better, I have always used black with no problems and now I'm curious as to what benefits I may be missing out on by using black shade cloth. Thanks!

Jrod11:
I wouldn't be to set on supplementing with artificial lights until you see some par readings. In my greenhouse located in Oregon, there are only about 3-4 months out of the year that I don't have some form of shade cloth on. It's funny to watch mushroom corals being over-illuminated in early spring so drastically far away from the tropical regions they come from!

My vote is yes, you should be able to do this project but it will take more planning and money than you probably have anticipated, at least this has been my experience so far.

Good luck

[The Big Tuna]

Badguitarist,
Black shadecloth blocks a given percentage of all light, blue shadecloth blocks a given percentage af all light except for the blue end of the spectrum. ie it lets the blue come thru while blocking the rest. Kinda like the ocean. My tanks look like they have 14k bulbs over them it's so blue. Coral colors improved quite a bit when I switched over from black to blue.
Agree wt ya on the planning & money part, at least the lighting system in a GH is free...

Joshua

[jrod11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15161208#post15161208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badguitarist
The Big Tuna:
could you explain why blue shade cloth is better, I have always used black with no problems and now I'm curious as to what benefits I may be missing out on by using black shade cloth. Thanks!

Jrod11:
I wouldn't be to set on supplementing with artificial lights until you see some par readings. In my greenhouse located in Oregon, there are only about 3-4 months out of the year that I don't have some form of shade cloth on. It's funny to watch mushroom corals being over-illuminated in early spring so drastically far away from the tropical regions they come from!

My vote is yes, you should be able to do this project but it will take more planning and money than you probably have anticipated, at least this has been my experience so far.

Good luck

We're getting a PAR meeter this weekend and I can figure out how much light is actually going through. I was just sceptical because it has the plastic roof and also the windows on the side are tinted. I think we are just mentally preparing ourselves to spend more money on the lights.

Big Tuna- Can you find these tarps at home depot?

[badguitarist]

The Big Tuna,
Thanks for the good info, I will definately be looking into switching my shade cloth over.

[The Big Tuna]

Blue shadecloth can be gotten from www.signaturesupplyonline.com

Joshua

[tanks2u]

Seems like a very cool project, but does stink that it's a rental. I'd hate to see it get all setup or even running for a while then have to tear it all down because of a move or issue with the landlord. As for the location, I think you're in an optimal location; I used to live in San Dog and know first hand that the temp is pretty stable compared to the rest of the country. I hope you're able to get the lighting figured out. good luck with the GH project.

[jrod11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15188778#post15188778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tanks2u
Seems like a very cool project, but does stink that it's a rental. I'd hate to see it get all setup or even running for a while then have to tear it all down because of a move or issue with the landlord. As for the location, I think you're in an optimal location; I used to live in San Dog and know first hand that the temp is pretty stable compared to the rest of the country. I hope you're able to get the lighting figured out. good luck with the GH project.

Thanks! Buddy said he plans on being there for a while and that the land lord is pretty cool. Hopefully it wont be an issue.

[legndairywon]

I want to do something like that here in florida but I think heat would be a MAJOR issue....I couldn't see doing it in a rental either, but you never know, sometimes tennants live in rentals for ever!

[jrod11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15205415#post15205415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by legndairywon
I want to do something like that here in florida but I think heat would be a MAJOR issue....I couldn't see doing it in a rental either, but you never know, sometimes tennants live in rentals for ever!

All of the equipment was set up at a previous house, but sperately plumbed. This is the first time we are going to put it all together.

Hopefully they stay for a long time, but if not its ok. Building the system is half the fun of it.

[cdeboard]

Looking forward to seeing how this comes out.. that room is awesome!

[H20ENG]

That pool will really help you maintain temps in the GH. The more mass the better, and a swimming pool is quite a lot of it. BUT, if it does get overheated or too cold, it will be harder to bring it back. I'd put chillers and heaters on for sure for backup.

The roof looks like the corrugated lexan to me. Interested to see what your PAR ratings turn up.

[jrod11]

ALright the PAR results are in. Outside was getting a reading of 2000 and then about 200 inside the pool house.

Question is now, how much light should we get to make up for it?

[demonboy369]

that's an awesome place for setup. not sure on the par but I hope someone answers for ya. good luck and keep us posted