Help with Imerator Angelfish

[oneoffcustom]

Hi all and thanks in advance for your replies.

I have a juvi imp. that i just got about a week ago. He is about 4 inches or so, and when bought was very healthy looking. This is my ultimate favorite fish so i may just be getting paranoid. Here is a pic to refrence him after week 1.

<a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/?action=view&current=DSCF2337.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/DSCF2337.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I have him in a 75 gallon tank with live rock only. I have 2000gph powerhead, and protien skimmer, and mini sump. His tank mates are a clown tang looking very healthy and a purple pseudochromis.

Now the question if your still reading. He is sometimes found at the top of the tank kinda flowing in the stream from powerhead, and his tail fin where its clear is getting cloudy. He eats like a horse and still swims and grazes. Am i being poaranoid or should i be doing something?

[MattL]

...Now the question if your still reading. He is sometimes found at the top of the tank kinda flowing in the stream from powerhead, and his tail fin where its clear is getting cloudy. He eats like a horse and still swims and grazes. Am i being poaranoid or should i be doing something? [/B]You are not being paranoid. That sounds like something is robbing him of the energy he needs. Have you treated him for flukes? Many angels these days are coming in with flukes. Are you aware of his geographic origin? Poor collection might have doomed him, even though he is eating fine now. Lastly, are you aware of the well-deserved reputation of clown tangs? Have you witnessed any agression between the clown tang and the imperator angel? You do realize that the clown tang will outgrow the 150 you are building in short order (if not before you build it), and/or terrorize and kill other fish in the system? Clown tangs are the meanest of all tangs in the hobby, and the hobby has lots of mean tangs in it.

Matt:cool:

[snorvich]

+1 with Matt

[oneoffcustom]

There has been no aggression between the clown tang and the angel. They seem to get along great or at least when im viewing they tend to hang out. I have seen no fin damage opr body damage to eithers fins. The imporater is about an inch bigger as well. I have not treated fo flukes yet but i am planning on it. Thank you for advice, i will watch for the aggression more closely.

[lombard0]

+2. That's because it is always a great idea to QT every fish before introducing to the display tank.

And I'm not sure if it's a good idea to house an emperor angel in a 75gal tank for a long term. :worried:

[oneoffcustom]

Niether would I, it is not a long term by no means it is 3 months until i move. I have a 150 ready to go that both fish will be moving into. He is rarely at the top it just seems that sometimes he does go up there and kinda glide his body in the flow. I am more worried about the cloudiness of his tail fin. I looked closely at him to see if he has any flukes and there are none that i can see. He is not scraping against any rocks to show me any sighns of irritation on his skin or gills, and also no heavy breathing. Thank you all for the advice, and what do you recomend for flukes treating?

[DamnPepShrimp]

Prazipro works wonders on flukes. You can dose your tank with it, just be careful of die off of bristleworms and featherdusters etc. Angels especially the emperor have very weird ways of swimming. All of my previous emperors swam side ways, they'd float through the water, my french does it too, maybe its a pomocanthus thing since my queen doesn't do it. I wouldn't worry too much about the way it swims, they don't swim like normal fish. I would however worry about any marks on him that aren't normal, like the cloudy tail. Like stated, flukes are notorious for coming in on angels. Treat with the prazipro asap.

[agreeive?fish]

one off coustom

flukes are almost if not impossible to see on the fish but there is a very high probability that the angel has flukes. there seems to be an rampage of angels(large and drawfs) butterflys and some tangs comming into the aquaria industry with flukes the last year or so

[oneoffcustom]

thank you guys i will use prazipro for sure. you guys have all been a great help.

[michealprater]

+1 on Prazipro. You can dose the display. It is not like copper.

[oneoffcustom]

Ok so i am going to dose prazipro, i just got it. Thanks to all who have replied again.

[MattL]

Watch the clown tang too. When you upgrade in three months, I would use that time to find him a new home. He will not succeed in your new system.

Matt:cool:

[oneoffcustom]

Well matt with expiriance of my own, i knew the odds when i bought the clown and his sucess rates in the hobby. If i were to find him a new home why would it be any better than keeping myself? I am curiouse to know your thought process on this. I am asking in a normal voice no attitude always eager to learn.

[Springmo]

OT but could you post a pic of the clown?

[oneoffcustom]

<a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/?action=view&current=DSCF2332.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/DSCF2332.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/?action=view&current=DSCF2333.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/DSCF2333.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/?action=view&current=DSCF2334.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x18/oneoffcustom/DSCF2334.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Springmo]

Beautiful fish. I can't wait to get one. I would be afraid to put it in with an angel though. If you have enough flow, the clown might be OK in the 150. What are the dimensions of the tank?

[oneoffcustom]

tank dims are 72x18.5x29 tall. for flow it will be two3200 gph pumps.

[Springmo]

Sump?

[MattL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15123049#post15123049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oneoffcustom
Well matt with expiriance of my own, i knew the odds when i bought the clown and his sucess rates in the hobby.... I am curiouse to know your thought process on this. I am asking in a normal voice no attitude always eager to learn. Just out of curiosity, what did you think the success rates were? What was your experience with this fish?

Clown tangs are hands down the most aggressive of the tangs, and we're talking about a fish family here that includes the likes of the sohal and the powder blue; fish with very nasty reputations. My experience is summed up in the FAQs and analogous to that reported int he "Species to Avoid" section of the Difficult Species threads, both located at the top of this forum.

If you previously had success, I would be interested to hear about it.

Matt:cool:

[michealprater]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15124046#post15124046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MattL
Just out of curiosity, what did you think the success rates were? What was your experience with this fish?

Clown tangs are hands down the most aggressive of the tangs, and we're talking about a fish family here that includes the likes of the sohal and the powder blue; fish with very nasty reputations. My experience is summed up in the FAQs and analogous to that reported int he "Species to Avoid" section of the Difficult Species threads, both located at the top of this forum.

If you previously had success, I would be interested to hear about it.

Matt:cool:

He is having success with the current clown tang he has now. The thread is about an Imperator Angelfish. Can you offer him advice and the issue he is asking about? If not, please move on to another thread. Thanks.:)

[oneoffcustom]

Lmao, im not trying to get in a ****ing match with you. I did what everyone else in this hobby did, which was buy an expert level care fish. As for reputation, its highly likely it will die, but also would have died at the pet store where it was in a 10 gallon tank. It seems like your problem should be taken up with the collectors not me, i merely found a fish i love at a price i was willing to try my hand at. Thanks for the encouraging words isnt that what this site is for? Is this site not to inform and encourage, not harass people for daring to try? Like the abouve post just move on.

[DamnPepShrimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15124046#post15124046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MattL
Clown tangs are hands down the most aggressive of the tangs, and we're talking about a fish family here that includes the likes of the sohal and the powder blue; fish with very nasty reputations. My experience is summed up in the FAQs and analogous to that reported int he "Species to Avoid" section of the Difficult Species threads, both located at the top of this forum.


Thats a lie. Just merely your opinion, not fact. I've had a clown tang that was extremely passive and even got bullied by smaller damsels. Also, there is someone on the FO boards with a huge clown tang that is extremely passive, doesn't bother anyone! It all comes down to each individual fish. I think the biggest issue with the clown tang is collection and how they are held (feeding constantly while in transit, same goes for idols). Your "Species to Avoid" is your opinion and species maybe you should avoid, but doesn't mean everyone else should. Maybe the beginner or anyone who isn't an expert should definitely avoid clown tangs, I agree, but not everyone, there are quite a few out there thriving.

oneoffcustom,
How is the prazipro treatment going? When I treated for flukes, I noticed a couple days after I found dead flukes at the bottom of the QT tank (which was BB so easy to spot). I can post a pic if you'd like.

[kenqc]

That is my favorite tang and I love angelfish as well. I wish you well in keeping them together in the 150. If there is no aggression, keep on going. You may be fine without the need to get rid of a fish. I think the point posters are making is if it were up to them, they would keep the angel and the tang in seperate tanks. The angel will do well in the 150, but many believe that the tang is too aggressive to trust and probably needs a bigger tank with aggressive species only.

But that being said, do what you feel is best, prove everyone wrong and keep us posted as to your success (or lack of). We all benefit from the experience and knowledge of these posters. I have learned so much (and the lfs are less knowledgeable than me and the rest of us here). Knowledge is power and I hunger for that knowledge!

[michealprater]

I believe my Blueface may have flukes, I have a large bottle of prazipro on order to treat my large display. I use Prazi in my QT process and flukes dont stand a chance.

[oneoffcustom]

yes please post some pics, im not sure if its done anything yet

[DamnPepShrimp]

Here are some dead flukes that fell off my wrasse after dosing prazipro

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd115/DamnPepShrimp/photo-137.jpg

Also, white poop I have been told is a good indicator of internal parasites, which prazipro will get rid of, you can also see some flukes in the pic as well.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd115/DamnPepShrimp/photo-138.jpg

Now that all my fish are in my display, I dosed prazipro again just to be sure and found a few flukes, so the first treatment may not have killed them all. I noticed some white poop awhile ago, but haven't seen any since. I think I might have the flukes finally killed off. My point is, just one treatment may not kill them all off.

[oneoffcustom]

wow thanks for the speedy reply... thats cool, i have not noticed any flukes but didnt know what to look for. I have however seen white poop. Thanks alot for the pics.

[michealprater]

seeing those flukes really helps. That is definately what is on my blue face. It looks like a loose scale on his side. About the size of a thumbtack head.

[MattL]

I had written a long response to the ridiculous claim that clown tangs really don't have a bad reputation in the hobby, but felt it was unfair to the original poster to start a fight over clown tangs here.

When I first replied to the original poster's thread (which was the first reply given to the problem), I suggested two causes: one was parasites, the other was aggression between the clown and the imperator, witnessed or otherwise.

I am sure the first is much more likely than the second, but in a 75, I do not believe you can rule out both. We may not sense aggression, but the fish do.

I was in no way trying to fight with the original poster. I was simply trying to make the point without hurting anyone's feelings that the fish choice might have been unwise, as it could lead to problems down the road, if it has not already done so (I do not rule out aggression as a factor here). It is sometimes hard to make a subtle point over the internet.

I do object vociferously to the notion that the solution was to buy a fish with a known bad reputation from the LFS, as this only perpetuates the cycle of collection (see the FAQ)

That said, I do wish the original poster the best of luck, and I hope he does end up with the minority of clown tangs who not only survive but thrive.

Matt:cool:

[MattL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15124470#post15124470 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by michealprater
He is having success with the current clown tang he has now. The thread is about an Imperator Angelfish. Can you offer him advice and the issue he is asking about? If not, please move on to another thread. Thanks.:) Please read the thread before begin dismissive.

I responded first that flukes were likely to blame, and suggested that he seek treatment. However, anyone who knows anything about tangs could not dismiss aggression in a 75 as being a secondary cause of problems. That's all.

Let's just hope the angel gets better,

Matt:cool:

[MattL]

Double post. Sorry:(

[michealprater]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15126275#post15126275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MattL
Please read the thread before begin dismissive.

I responded first that flukes were likely to blame, and suggested that he seek treatment. However, anyone who knows anything about tangs could not dismiss aggression in a 75 as being a secondary cause of problems. That's all.

Let's just hope the angel gets better,

Matt:cool:

Much better.

[DamnPepShrimp]

No prob with the pics, glad they helped. Freshwater dips is an easy way to diagnose flukes, but I have never liked doing them since I feel they can be stressful and prazipro is an easy treatment. I saw some of the flukes on my wrasse, when treating you might see them dying off.

Matt, I understand exactly where your coming from. I get annoyed with people overstocking small tanks with fish that will outgrow it, whats the point? I agree that a 150g is still way to small for either an emperor or clown tang for life. I just don't think the clown tangs are the most aggressive tang in the trade, there are some mean ones out there however.

oneofcustom, keep us updated.

[oneoffcustom]

Well matt all is forgivin thanks for advice and i will watch for aggression. Your statement was much better put this last time around. I will keep both fish however until a problem arises where i will have plenty of avenues to get him to a better home if needs be. I did go and read your post on tangs and agree with most all of it. I guess you could say i am an idealist in the fact i believe each fish has a different personality and not all conduct. heck maybe this tang will be my chance to enter into the 5% club of some hobbiest that get away with crazy stuff. On the other hand he will die and i will be out 19.99 versus the next person who would have came along and bought it after me. I dunno i hope the ladder as well.

[MattL]

He was only $19.99?!? That's crazy.

Matt:cool:

[michealprater]

I would have had a hard time passing on that deal. If he stays fat, colorful, healthy, and is not too agressive. That would be awesome.

I can vouch, there is lots of stores in Houston that would gladly take him back, if he is healthy, even if he is a bit unruly. LOL