cycling saltwater aqaurium

[neupane00]

hey guys, quick question. How do i fishless cycle saltwater aquarium. most of the online resource says. put in live rock and constantly monitor levels of ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, .. and when u get 0-0-20 .. you are cycled. is that right? with only live rock, where is bacteria getting its source of ammonia from? if its from inside the thing from liverock, should i worry about feeding THOSE micro creatures?/ i think i am missing some link here.
also to jumpstart cycling freshwater ,there are products like tetra safestart and all. is there anything like that for saltwater? where are instructions for that? thanks a LOT

[cwbhawk]

Ya thats the right way to cycle the tank with live rock. Ammonia is provided by all of the dead creatures in and on the live rock so the bacteria have plenty to eat. You could feed the tank a little bit if you wanted too, but it would only add some more ammonia to the tank, you dont really need to feed all the little hitchhikers during the cycle, and yes there are products to help jumpstart the cycle, but i don't reccomend them, i prefer just cycling with live rock.

[thegrun]

+1 on above, if fact if the live rock has a lot of growth on it, you will need to do water changes to lower your ammonia levels during the cycle. Good luck and welcome!

[snorvich]

+2 I do not recommend subjecting fish to a tanks cycle. Live rock or a small piece of table shrimp works just fine.

[jbax]

yeah let it cycle w/ live rock. i let my 75 cycle for 4 to 6 weeks

[evsalty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15128203#post15128203 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thegrun
+1 on above, if fact if the live rock has a lot of growth on it, you will need to do water changes to lower your ammonia levels during the cycle. Good luck and welcome! I have to disagree with the water changes. If you remove the ammonia then you prevent the cycle. You have to generate high ammonia to start the cycle.

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15128253#post15128253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by evsalty
I have to disagree with the water changes. If you remove the ammonia then you prevent the cycle. You have to generate high ammonia to start the cycle.

That isn't the case. Water changes will not remove all the ammonia, and you do not need "high" ammonia to start the cycle.

Each time I have set up a tank I have always done water changes during the cycle -- IMO, there is no point in paying good money for quality live rock if you are going to let high ammonia kill off that life.

The last time I did it I never had an ammonia reading -- due to water changes -- and it cycled just fine.

[SaltyFin21]

ok and how much of a water change did you do Todd, and how often. Because right now i have some fish in my 56 gallon and its been cycling for about 3 weeks now.

[Toddrtrex]

This is what I did.

I would do a normal 5 gallon WC on one of my other tanks, and then I would remove 5 gallons from the cycling tank and replace it with the water from my existing tank. (( the water from the existing tank was a lot better then the cycling tank water )).

If you already have fish in there, I would be doing as often as needed to keep the ammonia as near 0 as possible --- no need to stress the fish.

[reice05]

so your not supposed to cycle with live rock and live sand? just the live rock?

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15129020#post15129020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reice05
so your not supposed to cycle with live rock and live sand? just the live rock?

[welcome]

Personally I wouldn't buy "live sand" if you are referring to the live sand in a bag --- not worth the extra money.

[jbax]

cycle with live sand and rock. it's fine

[KarlBob]

Cycling with live sand and live rock is just fine. There's no need to wait until the cycle is established before adding sand.

As Toddrtrex mentioned, the "live sand" in the plastic bags is not really worth the price. It's innoculated with a culture of specific bacteria. If you start with dry sand, and add a cup of sand each from one or more established reef tanks, you will end up with a more diverse group of bacteria, plus invertebrates like brittle stars, worms and 'pods.

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15129218#post15129218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
Cycling with live sand and live rock is just fine. There's no need to wait until the cycle is established before adding sand.

As Toddrtrex mentioned, the "live sand" in the plastic bags is not really worth the price. It's innoculated with a culture of specific bacteria. If you start with dry sand, and add a cup of sand each from one or more established reef tanks, you will end up with a more diverse group of bacteria, plus invertebrates like brittle stars, worms and 'pods.

Thanks for expanding on my answer. :)

[reice05]

Yea your talking about the carribian live sand that be sitting on the shelves for weeks right???? no theres a guy locally that has a greenhouse where he sells live rock/live sand, corals etc he sells Live Argonite sand for 1$/lb

[evsalty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15128965#post15128965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
This is what I did.

I would do a normal 5 gallon WC on one of my other tanks, and then I would remove 5 gallons from the cycling tank and replace it with the water from my existing tank. (( the water from the existing tank was a lot better then the cycling tank water )).

If you already have fish in there, I would be doing as often as needed to keep the ammonia as near 0 as possible --- no need to stress the fish.

What you did there is a little different then a straight up water change. The water from your other tank is already full of good bacteria so yes it will help with the new tanks cycle. A water change with new mix will prolong the cycle.

[Toddrtrex]

The bacteria lives on/in the rocks and sand --- very little if any is actually in the water.

Using newly mixed water would extend the cycle a little bit, but would mature the tank quicker.

Here is a good post on the subject.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12110142#post12110142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
For a given bioload there's going to be a roughly set carrying capacity for the bacteria. Whether you do a waterchange or not, you're going to end up at the same place, you just change the path you take to get there and how long it takes.

If you don't do a WC you finish the initial cycle quicker but you overshoot the carrying capacity, so the population drops, overshooting it again. You end up setting up fluctuations in the population and prolonging the time it takes for the tank to "mature" or finally settle at the carrying capacity.

If you do WCs it takes a little bit longer for the bacteria to reach the carrying capacity, but there's very little overshoot so the tank is essentially mature as soon as the cycle is done. The fact that there's less ammonia also helps to preserve diversity on the liverock.

Here's a little graph to show what's going on.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/msgprimate/cycle.jpg

Personally, I recommend doing WCs, but either way will work.

[Michael]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15127927#post15127927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by neupane00
hey guys, quick question. How do i fishless cycle saltwater aquarium. most of the online resource says. put in live rock and constantly monitor levels of ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, .. and when u get 0-0-20 .. you are cycled. is that right? with only live rock, where is bacteria getting its source of ammonia from? if its from inside the thing from liverock, should i worry about feeding THOSE micro creatures?/ i think i am missing some link here.
also to jumpstart cycling freshwater ,there are products like tetra safestart and all. is there anything like that for saltwater? where are instructions for that? thanks a LOT

personally i wouldnt add anything to kick start the cycle.

buy a paper pad and pen and test daily for ammonia and nitrite and nitrate, write down the readings every time you test, basically if using live cured rock you may not get much of a cycle but ammonia and nitrite will rise and rise and then nitrate will follow, ammonia and nitrite will fall to 0 and nitrate should either rise more or stay fairly high, my nitrate never hit 20personally, it only went to 4, but all systems vary, however when your cycled do a 20-25% water change to dilute the nitrate which will have formed.

theres absolutely no reason why you cannot water change whilst your cycling, good luck and keep us informed.

ps do not use live fish to help the cycle, imo its a cruel thing to do.

[Brian.Bentzen]

Live rock will do the trick for cycling. If you are patient you should wait 2 months before adding anything alive. And you should make sure to quarantine before adding anything, every time.

[SaltyFin21]

ok so doing a 10 gallon water change on my 56 gallon once a week would be too much of its still cycling?

[Mrs. Suzy Smith]

What effect will a deep sand bed have on the cycle? It's been a while for me so... are deep sand beds still used now-a-days?

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15138157#post15138157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mrs. Suzy Smith
What effect will a deep sand bed have on the cycle? It's been a while for me so... are deep sand beds still used now-a-days?

I have never used a DSB (( I personally don't like the looks )), but I don't think having one would effect the cycle at all.