Colin's angel

[Rare Angels]

Good evening guys,

I received a colin's angelfish from your collector's choice area about a week ago. I haven't been able to get her eating as of yet and was wondering what you had her eating at your facility?

Was the tank she was in full of hiding places, low light, etc, any information would be helpful.

Dave

[BlueZooAquatics]

Hey Dave,

We feed our BZ mix and live and frozen brine for the most part. We offer food several times per day to everyone. We also keep algae strips wrapped around PVC and Ogo in all herbivore tanks including angels. Any one of those should work. For the more sensitive or rare fish, we keep them in natural seawater with live rock to graze on. This goes a long way to promoting as natural behavior as possible. It also provides hiding places the fish need in order to feel comfortable. The fish and invert rooms are dimly lit as well to make the animals feel less stressed.

Hope that helps and good luck!

[Rare Angels]

Thanks for the information, I will continue with my efforts and include some of the things you mentioned.

[Rare Angels]

The Colin's remains a tough nut to crack. :( I have been trying everything I can think of and it continues to get thinner.

She will sample mysis, NLS pellets, brine, but only eats maybe one or two of each them stops. She is dropping weight fast.

Do you have any other suggestions? One thing about this fish is that she never seems to swim around actively like most pygmy angels. When shes out shes always moving around in slow motion, is this how they are at your facility?

Is there any chance she may have been collected with cyanide?

Dave

[BlueZooAquatics]

Thanks for the update. I listed a few things to try in the email response to you so i won't go into details about that here. To address the cyanide question, you really have to know the history of this angel. They are collected in Guam by a small handful of people. Cyanide is never used in their collection and the inherent problem with the collection of this angel is decompression. They are a deep water angel so they have to be brought to the surface incredibly slow. Decompression issues manifest very quickly however and the fact that particular fish had been with us so long and now with you a few weeks is an indicator that it is not decompression or cyanide.

One thing to mention about deep water fish in general is their complete intolerance of chemistry changes in aquariums. Reef associated fish which are collected close to the surface have adapted the ability to roll with the punches over time. The surface water can fluctuate in temperature, salinity and sometimes pH. These fluctuations are very common in our aquariums as well, especially with small aquariums less than a few hundred gallons. In depths of 150-300 feet, these parameters change far slower if at all. Most deep water fish have not developed the internal mechanisms to handle these parameter changes well. They end up becoming very stressed when changes to these parameters take place.

The trick becomes keeping what we call the big three (temp, salinity, pH) as stable as possible to avoid putting stress on deep water wish which have never adapted to these parameters changing even a little bit.

Keep us posted on how things go. Take care.

[LargeAngels]

This is one angel that needs lots of live rock and cooler water to have a better chance of survival. Not an easy fish. And, Yes, they do hide much more than other angels. Add as much live rock as possible, keep temp. and lights down. Try newly hatched brine shrimp and turn the pumps off for a few minutes.

Do you have gravel on the bottom? I've found that fish are more calm if there is sand/gravel on the bottom.

[Rare Angels]

Just writing to let you know that the colin's will probably be dead by morning. She has never accepted food and is wasting away.

I have tried all of the things I know to do alot with the suggestions you gave and others. She was in a tank with lots of live rock, sand and reduced lighting. Like I mentioned earlier she never moved around very energetically, always very slow.

There are several videos on UTube of colin's angelfish in a japan's system and they are darting around like a normal centropyge does and eating like mad. Are the ones you currently have listed on your site eating vigorously?

Sorry to have this be the ending but just wanted to keep you informed.

Dave

[senior]

yeah, i ordered from them last year a majestic and a regal, and it wasnt a week later they died...couldnt get them to take anything for food...and they said they had the regal for over 2 months eating well there...bull****...wont order from them again...

[BlueZooAquatics]

Dave,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. That is a shame man. We have three here right now that came in a while back. I checked on them and they seem to be acting normally. I watched them eat BZ Mix this morning before responding to you. If you want, we can send you another one and help you out with the price. Just call us or email us and we can set that up.

Senior,

Not sure if this is the correct forum to be leaving comments like that. You may want to do that in the vendor experience area. This is more a place where customers can communicate with us about problems or compliments they have on existing or pending orders. I am sorry you lost your fish but do note that Dave has had that angel from us for over a month. Colini angels are a very tough animal to deal with and we take our job of getting them ready for shipping seriously. The only reason we are bothering bringing them in right now is because we have had some really good luck with the last few shipments unlike in the past.

If you still have issues with a past order or feel we did something wrong, please address us directly. Thank you.

[Rare Angels]

Thanks for the offer, I will have to take you up on that.

Senior,

I never meant to make it sound like I didn't trust these guys, I was just looking for help in how they housed the fish at their facility and hints they might have at helping me make the fish comfortable.

Even though this was my first order with them, several people I have a ton of respect for talk very highly of BZA and I will order from them in the future.

Dave

[LargeAngels]

Rare Angels: What temp. did you keep it at? It is a though nut to crack. I passed on a breeding pair a few years ago and I regret it. Just didn't have the time.

[Rare Angels]

Hey LA,

It was kept at 73-75 degrees

You passed on a breeding pair!! Wow I would have had a hard time passing on them? Were they wild or pre-conditioned?

Dave.

[LargeAngels]

Dave, They were Frank's breeding pair. My son was just born and had some medical issues, work was hectic, didn't have the time to setup a dedicated tank, etc. In the best interest of the fish I just couldn't risk them not getting the attention they needed.

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15312918#post15312918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
Rare Angels: What temp. did you keep it at? It is a though nut to crack. I passed on a breeding pair a few years ago and I regret it. Just didn't have the time.

Hey LargeAngels,

I'm sure we feel as bad as you otherwise we can get their offsprings from you. :lol:

Dave--did you end up getting another one from BZ? I would love to hear your update.

[LargeAngels]

flameangel88: Yeah, but I really didn't feel I had the time needed for this special pair. I think copps still has them. He got them and they were going to go to an LFS when he got a tank setup, but I don't think that ever happened.

[Rare Angels]

Kevin,

Yes I did receive another one from BZA. Just got it yesterday morning. It is currently in QT with a lots of live rock, sand and low temps, around 73 degrees. She is hiding most of the time right now, will atempt to feed tomorrow morning.

Dave

[flameangel88]

Dave,

Thanks for the update and best of luck with your new angel. Please keep us posted as I may go for another attempt in the future.

Kevin

[Rare Angels]

Kevin,

Do you currently have one or did you loss both of the ones you had?

Dave

[flameangel88]

I lost both with the first one in about a week and the second one after about 7 months. I purchased a pair of Colinis and a Venustus that had red marks near the stomach area that appeared to be infection from needling. I'd problems getting them to eat prepared food but I'd 260lbs of LRs for them to graze on. It took the Colini 5.5 weeks to start nipping small pieces from Angel & Butterfly and Marine Cuisine frozen.

If you don't see any red marks then you're through one huddle but still need to deal with possible internal parasites. Provide plenty of LRs for them and it will go a long way.

Best of luck!

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15390713#post15390713 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
flameangel88: Yeah, but I really didn't feel I had the time needed for this special pair. I think copps still has them. He got them and they were going to go to an LFS when he got a tank setup, but I don't think that ever happened.

Yeah, I still have this pair and they have spawned nightly since I got them back in 2006... mine are also from Fiji... Interestingly, having kept many angels that require low temps long term, colini is not one of them... my pair have been in 77-78 water for a few years now... when I was in Japan in January I saw a bunch of my pair's babies still doing well! :)

[BlueZooAquatics]

Hey John,

Kris said you had some questions. I will be around today if you have time.

Dave,

How are the two Colinis doing? We sent you an extra one thinking maybe you can pair them up.

-Mark

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15402673#post15402673 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BlueZooAquatics

Dave,

How are the two Colinis doing? We sent you an extra one thinking maybe you can pair them up.

-Mark

Mark,

That's very nice...I may have to hit you up for something like this in the near future.

:lol:

[BlueZooAquatics]

lol. Not a problem. If there is anything we can do to help you out just shoot me an email.

customerservice@bluezooaquatics.com

[flameangel88]

Will do. Any word on getting Centropyge Shepardi in soon?

[Rare Angels]

Mark,

The colinis are hiding alot still, they haven't shown any interest in food yet. The tank is currently only lit with a actinic and the water parameters are:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=20
phosphate=1.0
alk=1.6meq/l
ph=8.2
temp=73.6
calcium=500
mag=1300

I will keep you updated.

[BlueZooAquatics]

Thanks for the update Dave. For sure keep us posted. Now these particular fish we were keeping in a small system which could have the temperature lowered to 68. I think this helped us in getting them to eat. If you can, try this for a couple of weeks and get them established. John mentioned he had them in 77-78 degree water for years so after they eat and get acclimatized, try raising the temp back up slowly. Hope that helps. :)

[Rare Angels]

Mark, you are saying the system they were in was kept at 68 degrees? Or it had the capability to go that low? What temp were they in?

Dave

[Rare Angels]

I have been lowering the temp of the tank, currently at 70 degrees. The larger of the colin's is laying on the bottom and I am guessing will not make it to morning. :( The smaller one still hides and shows no interest in food or moving around the tank.

The parmeters of the tank are the same as the other day except for the temp. I am at a loss as to why I have been having issues with these fish. The multi-barred also passed yesterday evening, it would simply lay on the bottom most of the time then move around some.

Will keep you posted.

Dave (having a bad couple of days)

[BlueZooAquatics]

Sorry for the late reply Dave. How are things looking now with the smaller angel?

[Rare Angels]

Mark,

I haven't had a chance to see them today yet as the lights were off when I left for work.

Something I tried last night was to cover all the sides of the tank with towels to eliminate and outside distractions and make the tank feel more like a cave, similair to where they live in the wild. He actually came out shortly after that and was swimming around some.

I attempted to feed him at that time but I couldn't really see if he ate anything. The temperature of the tank is at 67.5 degrees and I have algae strips attached to a few rocks, there is also some ogo available to him in the tank.

When I get home tonight I will let you know more.

Dave

[Rare Angels]

well, the remaining colin's remains to hide constantly. I was really hoping the towels would make it feel more comfortable, guess it was a temporary thing.

[flameangel88]

Dave,
Any update on the Colini?
Kevin

[Rare Angels]

Kevin,

I don't have a good update. The second colin's died last week Thursday. :(

I am at a loss on what issues I have with these fish. I won't be buying any in the near future until I review my QT procedures and attempt some fish that are slightly less sensitive.

A few other fish have gone through the same QT tank and procedures with no issues, there is currently a flagfin angelfish in the tank and it was shy initially but started eating a couple days after arriving.

The colin's is a fish I really want to have in my collection so I am going to have to figure out how to best acclimate one's in the future.

Any suggestions from a guy like you would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

[flameangel88]

Dave,

I'm so sorry to hear of your lost. As LargeAngel said this is not an easy fish and I find it very true. It took my last one 5.5 weeks to eat and it still died after 7 months.

I don't know what to tell you but the next time I'm going to put it right into my 24g reef that's been setup over 3 years now and take out the lone hawkfish that's been in there for a while. The only thing I'll add is a live sponge and keep the temp at 72 then pray.

The question I've is do I want to do that much work for a fish that I'm not going to see much? I don't mind doing work to enjoy the fish but certainly not doing work and NOT enjoy it.

[LargeAngels]

The one I did try was out quite a bit, but just never ate.

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15482705#post15482705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
The one I did try was out quite a bit, but just never ate.

Mine came out swimming around grazing LRs but getting them to eat prepared food was a challenge.

About not seeing the fish much was more directed toward Dave.

[LargeAngels]

OK. Since these are deepwater fish and very likely needled to decompress I wonder if it is a good idea to treat with antibiotics even if nothing is apparent.

[flameangel88]

that may be the way to go because when I received the 2 Venustus both had red strek along the stomach area. what do you suggest? maracyn 2?

[LargeAngels]

I almost always use Maracyn II.

[Bruno3047]

Maracyn 2 is indicated for gram negative bacterial infections. There are very few, if any, gram positive bacteria that are problematic in salt water aquaria. Also, nitrifying aerobic bacteria are gram positive, so there is no negative implications for your biological filtration when using Maracyn 2.

I used Maracyn 2 to treat a nasty fin rot/columnaris infection on my baby Regal Angel. He was on the brink of death when I started treatment.

I recommend Maracyn 2