Calling Eel owners...

[RBU1]

I think my white eyed moray has Laeral Line (HLLE). I know it is not from water quality so it has to be from diet. All I feed to both the white eye and zebra is raw shrimp. I am starting to think maybe the white eye needs more nutrition. The Zebra is fine but the white eye has been losing skin near his eyes for months now. I never thought about eels getting HLLE but I guess it is possible. I realzed it is starting to be a problem when I looked at him close this morning and I see some raw red spots on him.

So what should I do to get this guy some more/better nutrition? Just soak his food in selcon???? Ideas welcome please.

Thank You
BILL

[LisaD]

have you tried other foods? squid, scallops, head-on shrimp, whole small fish, etc.?

[NPCivic]

Wow, I never heard of an eel with HLLE. I feed my eel silversides and krill. I soak their food in Selcon and garlic and sometimes sprinkle some cyclopeez. Eats like a pig.

[RBU1]

Thanks for the responses...

I will have to give different foods a try as well as soaking the food in a vitamin.

Well HLLE is the only thing that I can think it might be. I know my water quality is great and as far as I know, stray voltage, water quality and nutrition are the causes of HLLE. I have a ground probe in the tank and all the other fish including angels are fine.

It looks like the skin between his eyes has just peeled off and it is getting worse. I can't believe it took me this long to put 2 and 2 together with the HLLE....I guess I thought they dont get it either.

Unless you have any other ideas I am going to try different foods and soak them in vitamins.

Thanks Again
BILL

[Mentat]

Moray and all predators eat various whole preys in the wild. Feeding only raw shrimp (imagine tails) is not going to provide a balanced diet. Can purchase whole clams, squid, etc. for human consumption and feed that. Soaking in vitamins is ok.

Why the ground probe? If tank is shocking you, find out why and correct it. Recommend remove that ground probe to stop possible current flow through it and tank.

[NPCivic]

RBU - A variety of food should be help out. Eels are pretty hardy as I found out. They should be fed about 2-3 times a week, depending on their size but feed them until they can't eat anymore on every feeding. I, also sometimes feed clams and he seems to like that a lot more than krill.

[RBU1]

Mentat,

The ground probe is there to eleviate that. Not that I had any in the tank it is just a safety precaution.

As long as your electrical system is wired properly that is the purpose of a ground to bleed off any stray current. If your ground is not proper then you may have an issue. I have ground probes on all my tanks.

I think I need to change the diet up a little. What is everyone feeding?

Is smelt an option? They have that frozen in my local Acme....

[Damascus]

throw in some live damsels.

[RBU1]

Oh yeah let me run out and encourage my eels to eat my fish lol

[saltyguy51]

i have never heard of an eel with hlle either. But i guess there is a first for every thing

[saltyguy51]

Are you sure it didnt injure itself around some rocks in the tank to get that?

[LisaD]

could it be a bacterial or parasite infection?

you say you know your water quality is great, but have you actually tested? it doesn't hurt to get some numbers, just to be sure.

I haven't seen HLLE in eels either.

[Mentat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15196820#post15196820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RBU1
Mentat,

The ground probe is there to eleviate that. Not that I had any in the tank it is just a safety precaution.

As long as your electrical system is wired properly that is the purpose of a ground to bleed off any stray current. If your ground is not proper then you may have an issue. I have ground probes on all my tanks...
Read discussion were ground probes were associated with causing the same problem they are supposed to solve. Something about the probes enhancing a path for current to flow through tank. Without the probe... no path.

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15199093#post15199093 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
could it be a bacterial or parasite infection?

you say you know your water quality is great, but have you actually tested? it doesn't hurt to get some numbers, just to be sure.

I haven't seen HLLE in eels either.

It could be a parasite there is ich in the tank but it is under control for the most part. I am still leaning towards a diet deficiency of some sort. I am going to try different foods and a soak and see if after a while I notice any improvement. He has had this for several, several months but I recently noticed it looks worse.

[RBU1]

Oh and I know my parameters are all good I test weekly and also send my water out to aquarium water testing company. Just mailed out another kit today.

[unleashed13]

eels are not effected by ich.. and yes I totally agree with everyone about the food.. shrimp alone is not going to sustain him I have never heard of any case of HLLE in an eel before ..as for foods, I feed mine shrimp ,squid,scallops ,silverslides,halibut,talapia,flounder,frozen krill..IME eels are tanks when it comes to illnesses however they can get ill if proper nutrition is not met for them.. have you treated the tank with anything for the ich?

[unleashed13]

ps when you say all good what is you ph at?and ammonia.. are you using tap water that has chlorine?

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15200813#post15200813 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unleashed13
ps when you say all good what is you ph at?and ammonia.. are you using tap water that has chlorine?

PH always stays between 8.0 at night at 8.2 during the day. I use Kalk as a topoff. I use RO/DI water and change the filters every few months. I am anal when it comes to water changes and testing my water. I do 50 gallons a week on my 300 gallon tank and 10 gallons a week on my 75 gallon. Here are my parameters..

Alk 10dkh
Cal 420
nitrates 0 (sulfur denitrator)
PH 8.0-8.2
Mag 1350

I run carbon and GFO 24/7 and change them out the first of every month. I run 25 micron filter bags on the 300 and change them every 2-3 days. Hum I think that covers most if not all.....

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15200807#post15200807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unleashed13
eels are not effected by ich.. and yes I totally agree with everyone about the food.. shrimp alone is not going to sustain him I have never heard of any case of HLLE in an eel before ..as for foods, I feed mine shrimp ,squid,scallops ,silverslides,halibut,talapia,flounder,frozen krill..IME eels are tanks when it comes to illnesses however they can get ill if proper nutrition is not met for them.. have you treated the tank with anything for the ich?

Based on the reading I have done it is harder for an eel to get ich but it is possible. That discussion seems to have varying opinions.....Just because you do not see ich on an eel or fish does not mean it is not present. I really am not concerned with ich. If fish are healthy I still feel they can fight it off....I have to try getting different things for the eels to eat....I know the Zebra eats crusteceans but the white eye I am not sure....Might be fish??? I will try to do a little home work but if someone has suggestions on what I should feed please post. I am going to get some of those items unleashed suggested are there any others???

[unleashed13]

any particular time of day you are trying to feed?most eels are nocturnal hunters and depending on what schedule he had naturally which is hard to define with many.. because they are also considered opportunistic feeders .. find his time he is most active in the tank and use that as meal time.. any salt water species will do however avoid tuna and salmon the contain too much fat for regular use in marine fish.. good luck

[95Harley]

I can't believe he is still fighting this problem. Were you ever able to grab a picture of him to start a full fledged fact finding mission.

I hate to hear that he is still dealing with it.

Still acting normal and unbothered by it?


Here he was almost 2 yrs ago to the date.http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk11/JMAC235/DSC07283.jpg

[RBU1]

Hey Harley....Still bothered by this problem. He is still acting normal just looks real bad....Do you want him back?????

I am going to try different foods. Maybe the raw shrimp is just not cutting it. I will try to get a picture tonight.

[unleashed13]

do either one of you know the scientific name for this eel? white eyed moray isn't listed as a valid common name as several eels have white eyes

[LisaD]

Isn't it Siderea thyrsoidea?

http://www.daveharasti.com/articles/speciesspotlight/whiteeyed_morayeel.html

http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/7690981v5196217-white-eyed-moray-eels-siderea-thyrsoidea-using-an

[saltyguy51]

I had 2 whitemouth morays and they would eat raw shrimp, scallops (sometimes) , silversides and thats about all. So vitimans would sure help

[RBU1]

OK here is about the best I can do with pics........What do you all think???

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/rbu1/DSCF1174.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/rbu1/DSCF1172.jpg

[RBU1]

I just tried feeding him scallops and he took the first piece but wanted nothing to do with the second....

[unleashed13]

ok I found a listing on fishbase.org.. thanx lisaD that ID helped alot.its listed as the greyface moray.on fishbase.http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=8252&genusname=Gymnothorax&speciesname=thyrsoideus
as for its natural diet.. it has the basic fish and crustaceans like most other eels.. lisaD my antivirus scanned that second link as an unsafe site says it contains virus..

[unleashed13]

my jeweled isn't as thrilled with scallops either seams to prefer squid and fish the most and of course the shrimp.. all of my eels prefer the squid over everything else

[rguyler]

Years ago I bought a purple tang that had LLE pretty bad. After much research the key to correcting this appeared to be vitamin C so I made a special formula with lots of vitamin C liquid from a local healthfood store. In a year the LLE was completely gone, the tang was nice and fat and vibrantly colored. Since then I believe it to be a necessity and there are numerous posts and articles written about this. I always feed vitamins (I use Vitachem) now with my foods.

If your eel won't take anything but the shrimp, try injecting vitamins into the shrimp with a syringe. I've also heard of people who trained their eels to eat NLS but that could be a tough battle.

[unleashed13]

If your eel won't take anything but the shrimp, try injecting vitamins into the shrimp with a syringe. I've also heard of people who trained their eels to eat NLS but that could be a tough battle what is NLS? sorry to sound stupid but I have never heard of anything abbreviated as this ..

as for getting your eel to willingly eat something new.. hubby just thought of this try stuffing the shrimp with other foods such as fish, silverslides ect.. kinda like hiding the pill ..also I would soak his food in selcon before feeding

[welsher7]

NLS is New Life Spectrum. Have tried not feeding for a week, then feeding a new food item? Not feeding for a week shouldn't be a problem for that eel, it looks nice and fat. Also have you tried soaking foods in garlic before feeding it? I haven't found something that my zebra won't eat, but I soak all foods in garlic first.

[95Harley]

Not sure I buy the HLLE theory with an eel, but I can attest to soaking food in Zoe and Selcon cures HLLE completely.

I QT'd a Yellow Tang in a new 20g when I was first starting out and his HLLE was horrible (thanks to me), after several years of soaking his Nori is in it's completley gone.

I know this is a semi reef tank, could something be stinging or irriatating him and causing him to scratch his head on something?

Or a jagged rock/coral near his favorite hole?

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15207826#post15207826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 95Harley
Not sure I buy the HLLE theory with an eel, but I can attest to soaking food in Zoe and Selcon cures HLLE completely.

I QT'd a Yellow Tang in a new 20g when I was first starting out and his HLLE was horrible (thanks to me), after several years of soaking his Nori is in it's completley gone.

I know this is a semi reef tank, could something be stinging or irriatating him and causing him to scratch his head on something?

Or a jagged rock/coral near his favorite hole?

Anything is possible....I am going to try the diet/vitamin thing and see if that changes anything. He is acting normal as far as I can see...

[LisaD]

If you buy Ocean Nutrition frozen gel cubes, there is one (Formula One IIRC) that has stabilized vitamin C. I thaw the cubes (10 sec defrost in the microwave) and feed whole cubes on a stick to my morays. Both the zebra and the Brazilian dragon moray take them. Gel cubes are not the main part of their diet, but I give them at least a few every week. You might try this with your eel for variety and nutrition. My BDM also will take chunks of partially frozen large Hikari mysis - these are whole mysis and have alpha-omegas added as well. He never seems to get brain freeze. :)

[NPCivic]

HLLE is something that can't be fixed overnight more of a long term thing. Plus, I'm sure that your eel will like a variety of food rather than the same ones all the time. Your getting there, a little bit of Vita C, Garlic, Selcon, will go a long way in helping cure whatever is troubling your eel.

[rguyler]

I think Formula foods are good but are just too messy when fed to larger fish. Now if I could find a cleanup crew that could survive eels, puffers, triggers, etc...

[helicoprion]

I occaisionally feed shrimp but don't think it's substanial enough to make up any real portion of a morays diet.

I've had tremendous success with squid soaked in vitachem (I've heard others are better), and I have yet to see a moray refuse chopped or whole smelt (a nice fatty fish). I've had more limited luck with scallops, though they will take it; crab meat is a great, albiet expensive, way to go as well.

Hope this helps!

[RBU1]

OK tonight I tried some high protein vitamin enriched cubes similar to the ones LisaD suggested. He did not like them at all......I am going to stop at the Asian Market and get some whole squid and try that soaked in selcon.

[rguyler]

You also could try live foods. My LFS sells crayfish, fiddler crabs and ghost shrimp, which might last a short time in the saltwater. Of course they could die right when they hit the water too. lol

LiveAquaria sells saltwater feeder shrimp. Not cheap but if it helped the little bugger to start eating it would be worth it.

Helicoprion, I've used Vitachem for years and it's always treated me well. I don't recall there being many alternatives back then but it's never given me a reason to try anything else. My .02

[RBU1]

OK no better on this guy....I think he is actually getting worse....I tried feeding him regular shrimp last night because he was out and he would not even touch it. So either something is going on or he is getting real picky and I have to try another food.

For some reason I would never see him he is always in the rock but now he is out.

I am willing to give him away to someone that might be better with caring for him that I am. Last resort is the local fish store but i would hate to do that.

I anyone local wants him PLEASE let me know. I am in South Jersey 08085

BILL

[95Harley]

Sorry to hear Bill, wish he would have gotten better for you.

[NPCivic]

Try not to give up on him yet. Maybe he's going on a hunger strike, I've heard that some eels tend to do that. I know you have tried almost everything that we have recommended but you might want to try one more thing...live grass shrimp. You can actually go to a local bait shop and get them cheaper than buying at you LFS. You can freeze the ones you don't use and save them for later. All my predator fish including my eel love this treat.

[RBU1]

If someone wanted him I would let you have him. Just want him to have a good life and maybe someone would have better luck. I would not want to try the shrimp thing because I do have cleaner shrimp in the tank the neither eel has bothered knock on wood.......

[NPCivic]

Ah, I see. Live shrimp...BIG NO NO! =)

I wouldn't mind taking him off your hands but we are on the opposite sides of the country (I'm in CA) and more stress might be added during shipment. Its better if someone local can take him. Until then, don't give up, you'll never know.

[billysanborn]

my yellow head moray got a cut right below his jaw and i quarantined him and treated with bifuran for a week with a 50 percent water change and a re-dose of the meds every day for a week. that was 8 months ago. he healed up just fine and he is strong as ever.