gasoline and liverock??

[urbor]

Ok I dont know if this is the right place for this thread.

Ok so I have about 300 pounds of live rock that was in my tank when someone poured about 2-3 gallons of gasoline in my tank.

Well I now have a new tank, and I was wondering if there is anyway that I clean this rock good enough to use it in a reef?

Thanks

[bertoni]

I have no idea how to remove gasoline from live rock. I suppose the best hope might be a lot of detergent, but detergents will kill animals, too. Live rock tends to be porous, which is an issue with contaminants. Maybe someone will have more information on this topic.

[urbor]

I dont mind killing everything on the rock and kind of starting over, I just want to be able to reuse it.

[luther1200]

If you don't mind me asking, why did someone put gas in the tank? Was there anything in it besides the rock?

[cabrego]

I seem to remember reading a thread about a ex girlfriend doing the unthinkable and pouring gasoline in a reef tank :eek2:

I really don't know how you would get gasoline off, maybe lighting it on fire? Giving the rock a quick fire bath lol

At the very least I think you would have to go with a vinegar, bleach baths, and cooking the rocks for at least a month with water changes.

You should also test a few rocks in a small tank to make sure fish can survive. Perhaps inthe middle of your cooking cycle extrat a few pieces and by a clown fish or damsel. and treat it like a quarantine.

I can't see how you can do this any other way. If the bleach/vinegar route doesnt work, then maybe i would consider some sort of solvent

[gem_nut85]

who would do such a thing!!! that's like genocide almost!
the only thing that might work it to heat it out of the rocks, set them on fire or bake them in the sun to dry it all out, but i'm pretty sure that live rock being so porous it probably is all garbage since it would have sooked through it all and will leave carbon and silicates from dried residue. You could put the rocks in water and see it you get the mutlicolor swirls going on indicating you have oil products floating, if you do i'm afraid it 's outside decore now. I'd so sue the person who did it!

[HighlandReefer]

There a lot of things in gasoline that are very toxic to organisms in a reef system. I would not use this rock myself. Some of the active ingredients would be very difficult to remove from rock.

This is a MSDS for one gasoline product:

http://www.umb.edu/administration_finance/ehs/unleadmsds.html

[bertoni]

I understand you're not worried about saving anything that might be living, but I'd be worried about possible interactions between the cleaning chemicals and the gasoline. I'm not enough of a chemist to know what might cause problems, though. The gasoline likely has jellied by now, which makes matters more difficult. Boomer might be able to help.

[Biologist]

Wow, this conjures up some dramatic images!

Did the tank still have water in it when the gasoline was poured in it? If so, that is good, as the gasoline was at least diluted instead of being poured directly on dry rock and soaking in.

Does the rock smell like gasoline? If so, you've got to at least get the concentration down to where you cannot smell it anymore before you can even think of putting it in your aquarium.

I think your best bet is to do what cleanup crews do after oil spills. Try to solubilize any remaining gasoline in a dawn dishwashing soap bath and vigorously brush the rock.

Another method of removing gasoline from rock or concrete is to apply dry concrete mix and allow the mix to absorb it and then brush away the mix after. I've tried this method on concrete exposed to motor oil and it works like magic.

I don't think the rock is lost forever. It's the kneejerk response of us reefers to call it permanently spoiled, but there is hope. Gasoline is a volatile substance that will evaporate away and any remaining substances will be broken down by time and the action of microbes. If nothing else you can place this rock in a big tub of water in your backyard for an extended period of time. The rock will eventually become usable again (in my opinion of course!).

[dudley moray]

if i recall correctly gas is less dense than sea water so it would float on top of the water try and syphon it off the surface then get a spill pad from a garage store and soak up the left over then remove the rock from the water and rince it many times until (if any was present ) the smell is gone should be ok but as stated earlier there are many chemicals in gas that may be water soluble and therefore very hard if not impossible to remove from the rock

[urbor]

Its was a 240 gallon tank so the couple of gallons of gas was dilouted but its still a lot of gas.

The returns mixed up all the gas and water for a while untill I found it, so the rocks got it pretty good.

I rinsed them in big buckets for hours afterward with fresh water.

The rocks are just sitting all dryed up in my garage in buckets, they have been like this for atleast six months, i dont really think they smell like gas

I dont know Im just afaraid that Im going to contaminate the new reef

[bertoni]

I agree that bacteria will break down the gasoline over time, but I don't know what that time frame will be. Using the dishwashing liquid might be safe, but I would ask around about safety and toxicity issues. That might not be a problem, but I'd be careful.

[unhpian]

I don't think it's so much the gasoline you have to worry about, it's the additives that are in gasoline. The gasoline itself (and the MAH and PAH components) should be able to baked off - as most of those components will volatilize fairly easily. The detergents and oxygenates are what worry me. Where do you live? do you know if your gasoline still contains MtBE, or have they switched to Ethanol? If it's ethanol - then thats no biggie, it's fairly easily degraded. But if it's MtBE...well, game over.

If you are determined to use this rock- I would literally bake it at as high of a temperature as you can reasonably get for a few days. That should volatilize most of the gasoline components off, and if the temp is high enough - will combust the remaining.
I would then take a representative sample of the rock and put it in a sealable container (salt bucket?) and fill it all the way with RO/DI water so that there is no headspace. Seal the container - and let it sit for a month or so. Then, take a water sample and get it analyzed by a water quality lab (most states have labs that will do this as well) for VOCs. If it comes back clean, you're probably okay - however, I'd still run tons of carbon for first few years , just to be safe.

[unhpian]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15217313#post15217313 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Biologist



I think your best bet is to do what cleanup crews do after oil spills. Try to solubilize any remaining gasoline in a dawn dishwashing soap bath and vigorously brush the rock.



You're half right - that is one of the methods used for oil, but it doesn't do much for gasoline. Unfortunately I work with oil spills, and I can tell you that gasoline is MUCH different (both physically and chemically) from oil (and even oils are different - South Louisana Crude is different then North Slope Crude, and both have slightly different response techniques.....but I digress). Oil tends to smother and cling to surfaces, while gasoline does not - it tends to get absorbed. Detergants are used in oil spills because it will break the bonds that are holding the oil to surfaces, and disperse the oil droplets back into the water. Detergants aren't going to do much of anything to gasoline. Fun Fact: When gasoline is spilled, one of the more common ways of cleaning it up is to actually burn it

[bertoni]

I wouldn't be willing to bake gasoline, personally. I admit to being completely ignorant of the dangers of gasoline fumes, but I suggest getting some expert input before doing that.

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15218116#post15218116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
I wouldn't be willing to bake gasoline, personally. I admit to being completely ignorant of the dangers of gasoline fumes, but I suggest getting some expert input before doing that.

It's the fumes that are explosive ;)

[Agu]

300 pounds is a nice start for a rock garden. I would never consider using contaminated rock in a reef tank no matter how it was treated to rehabilitate the rock.

jmo,

[Yogre]

What Agu said. There are just a plethora of chemicals in gasoline, none of which we can test for with hobbyist kits, that could have been absorbed by your rock. Benzene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, ethers, additives, the list goes on.

Do yourself a huge favor, write the rock off, start over, and make sure to NEVER again associate with whoever the clown was who dumped gas on your reef. IMHO.

[Wolverine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15218294#post15218294 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Agu
300 pounds is a nice start for a rock garden. I would never consider using contaminated rock in a reef tank no matter how it was treated to rehabilitate the rock.

I agree with Agu. I wouldn't put it in my main tank.

However... Do you have a spare tank? If you do, it might be interesting to see what happens (how long it takes for life to really take off again, etc).

[Superstretch18]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15218294#post15218294 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Agu
300 pounds is a nice start for a rock garden. I would never consider using contaminated rock in a reef tank no matter how it was treated to rehabilitate the rock.

jmo,

'nuf said

/thread...

[therealfatman]

Actually the most common method for cleaning up gasoline spilled in water when the situation allows it is to just let it evaporate. Rocks that have set out drying for any length of time are pretty close to being usable already. I would first just add plain water to the soaking containers holding the rock and see if any oil sheen forms on the waters surface. I would then boil the rocks in water with a small very small amount of detergent (more if an oil sheen formed) then rinse well followed by boiling a short while in fresh detergent free water. People worry about additives and detergents added to gasoline but few realise the total additives are something like one quart to 10 thousand gallons of gasoline. Calcium carbonate is pretty absorbent and full of pore spaces so if you want to be really thorough soak the rocks when finished with the above in a solution of vinegar or muriatic acid and water then rinse well.

[chilihedkc]

Base rock is cheap. One whole heck of a lot cheaper than finding out the hard way that the rock is still toxic once you have livestock in the system.

[therealfatman]

I think you guys are making mountains out of mole hills. Gasoline and all the distilates in gasoline floats on water as does nearly every additive added to gasoline. There are metals used as reagents in the cracking process but they are not apart of the gasoline. It is not crude oil that got dumped into his tank. You will not find any refined fuel , oil or gasoline that is not lighter than water. Nearly every thing in gasoline readily evaporates that is why the fumes are so exsplosive. The amount of detergents is miniscule and is really more of an advertising hype than anything else. They do not add metals such as lead to gasoline anymore.

[sowellj]

As most people have mentioned, for peace of mind I would likely just scap the rock. If you do want to try and salvage it, I would do alternate soakings in dilute vinegar and ethanol.

[therealfatman]

PM sent.

[gem_nut85]

if you burn it, you put it outside it a disposable container like aluminum oven roaster and then lit it, or bake the rock in a big plastic like horse water tub and put a piece of glass to cover the top completly and the heat will build from the sun baking it , if you live where the summers are above 80*f

[acrylic_300]

I wouldn't use it...but if I had to I would probably boil it a few pieces at a time instead of baking it.

or better yet soak it in bleach water with a pump circulating then keep changing the water until the bleach smell is gone. Then let the rock dry out again.

[OwenInAZ]

If it were me, I'd let the sun cook them for a good while, and then cook them in the reef-sense for another while. If your climate is anything like mine, gasoline will evaporate very quickly, and the cooking with dilute the remaining toxins. You can try setting up a small tank with some cheapy cheap corals as a experiment to see if it is rehabilitated or not after that. Ethanol and vineagar soaks were mentioned above, but I seriously doubt they'd do anything chemically to improve the rock -- old wive's tales abound in this hobby :)

When I did work in environmental cleanup (think: diesel/PCB/other nasty crap in a spreading plume underground), the mantra at the time was "dilution is the pollution solution." While that may not be so PC now, in your case I think it will work fine. Dilute the toxins out to non-detect levels (i.e. no gas smell or evidence of hydrocarbon films in the water) and see if it works before dropping another grand on LR.

[OwenInAZ]

Seriously, all the people saying "bleach" or "ethanol" or "vineagar:" what are those chemicals going to do to help? Sterilizing the rock with bleach or ethanol isn't going to get rid of gasoline.

In fact, the chemical reactions between the many constituents of gasoline and something like hypochlorite could be very very dangerous...

[therealfatman]

The alcohol makes sense as it is a good solvent carrier that would be able to be safely handled and easily disposed of. Soaking the rock in alcohol then throwing away the alcohol would remove a large amount of the petroleum and such. Methanol can be bought by the gallon at bulk fuel plants for around $5 per gallon.

Most likely any residual gasoline "stuff" would be on the surface or absorbed only to a shallow extent so vinegar or acid would remove those substances. You would have to point out to me some literature that would show that any gasoline component at any significant concentration in a mere two gallons of gasoline, yet alone the residuals of that gasoline, that would cause any significant amount dangerous reactions with bleach. Everyone knows there would be no reaction with alcohol or detergent. At most the concerns would be whether organo-chlorine compounds are formed that can polute the water that the water discharged into. Considering the fact that at the EPA's allowanv ce water treatment plants still use chlorine and chloroamine for water disinfection and cretae huge amounts of cancer causing organo-chlorine compounds evey second of every day chlorine use in this case although it would likely do nothing beneficail it would also do little harm. The big worry is in someone possibly combining chlorine bleach and vinegar which would produce toxoic chlorine gas.

[OwenInAZ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15230220#post15230220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by therealfatman
The big worry is in someone possibly combining chlorine bleach and vinegar which would produce toxoic chlorine gas.

I suppose that's my concern. There's a lot of voodoo advice (so to speak) on RC that people who don't know any better might take at face value. I can just picture someone dumping together a witch's brew of chemicals with little or no knowledge about how they could interact because they heard someone suggest it on here with no backing evidence.

Like I said before: In this case, dilution is the pollution solution ;)

Besides, what's going to be the cleanup solution for bleach, vineagar or ethanol? Let it dry to evaporate the solvent/chemical, and then cook the rock to be sure it's clean. Seems to me you could save a couple steps :)

[acrylic_300]

I bleach my filters out every other week with a similar method to the one I described. The water turns dark brown the filter turns white. Anything other than bleach would not work.

I know of a few people who do this to their filter socks.

All that dead crusty bacteria that protected the live rock from absorbing the gasoline will dissolve and rinse off.

BTW don't use detergent on anything that has to do with fish or corals it doesn't evaporate and will destroy their protective slime coat.

Right or wrong this is the way I would do it.

I think for some people everything is wrong unless it has a witty rhyme :D

[justin_freebord]

i think a major issue you face is even if you clean it really good, what if some was left over and after a long period it slowly found its way from deep in the rock and a little got into the system. I know rock is expensive and that must really suck but id be very worried all the time even if the rock was super cleaned. But hey, i worry all the time about my tank

[therealfatman]

I would not use bleach as there is no living matter to oxidize or disinfect. I would likely start with TSP or detergent to emulsify the oil and get it into solution with the water carrier solvent. Dump that water and rinse, then use a dilute acid such as 2 to 1 or 1 to 1 water and n
vinegar, or 10 to 1 water and muriatic acid. Then dump and rinse. Then soak in alcohol from a fuel company bulk a plant and then dump the alcohol. Finally air dry. Total cost should be about $30 to $40. 10 to 13 cents a pound is not a high price to save 300 pounds of porous carbonate rock.

I should change my name to Albert Thiel and charge for this. Look where it got him. Last I heard he was in hiding.