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Timbor
06/29/2009, 06:53 PM
Hi there,

I have been looking to get a used tank to setup as a frag tank, but many of the ones I have found are not drilled and use a hang on overflow. My current tank is drilled, and I think I would prefer a drilled tank. I was just wondering how reliable hang on overflows are, and whether it is worth using one or trying to drill the tank myself.

Thanks for the help!

Tim

brad burditt
06/29/2009, 07:07 PM
tim i would go with an rr tank it will be better in the long run tons of pros and cons on both but sump hides everthing

sjm817
06/29/2009, 07:09 PM
Hang on overflows are not all the same. Some are much more reliable than others. Many tanks can be drilled through a side or back panel. That would be your best option.

coral_lagoon
06/29/2009, 07:20 PM
The CPR hang on over flow box with the aqua lift pump works great together. No hiccups whatsoever..

And no inside overflow box= more room
CL

Toddrtrex
06/29/2009, 07:33 PM
IMO, Drilled would be preferred.

However, if that isn't an option, a LifeReef overflow box is the only one that I would recommend/use. Honestly, you couldn't pay me to use a CPR overflow.

Timbor
06/29/2009, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I was thinking of drilling it myself and putting in a Calfo-type overflow so that the box stays near the top of the tank. I'm not sure what type of overflow comes with the system I am looking at.

How bad do you think it would look if I made the overflow box out of glass vs opaque acrylic?

luther1200
06/29/2009, 07:43 PM
Get a Glass Holes overflow.

coral_lagoon
06/29/2009, 08:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278172#post15278172 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
IMO, Drilled would be preferred.

However, if that isn't an option, a LifeReef overflow box is the only one that I would recommend/use. Honestly, you couldn't pay me to use a CPR overflow.

Life Reef over flow box uses a U-tube to draw the water. These types are not efficient, and to start syphon you have to feed an airtube to the top middle of the tube. With the CPR box you just hook up an Aqua lift airpump and it starts automatically and consistently..

CL

Toddrtrex
06/29/2009, 08:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278395#post15278395 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coral_lagoon
Life Reef over flow box uses a U-tube to draw the water. These types are not efficient, and to start syphon you have to feed an airtube to the top middle of the tube. With the CPR box you just hook up an Aqua lift airpump and it starts automatically and consistently..

CL

They are very efficient. The only time I have to use an airline to restart the siphon is when I clean out the U-tube -- that is about 2-3 times a year. With a U-tube design, I don't have to worry about an airpump always working to make sure air bubbles collect and the siphon is lost. Too many people have had their Aqua lifter pumps fail. The CPR are a poor design, IMO, wouldn't want to buy an overflow that requires an aqua-lifter pump to work properly.

coral_lagoon
06/29/2009, 08:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278481#post15278481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
They are very efficient. The only time I have to use an airline to restart the siphon is when I clean out the U-tube -- that is about 2-3 times a year. With a U-tube design, I don't have to worry about an airpump always working to make sure air bubbles collect and the siphon is lost. Too many people have had their Aqua lifter pumps fail. The CPR are a poor design, IMO, wouldn't want to buy an overflow that requires an aqua-lifter pump to work properly.

With the U-tubes you also start to get an air bubble trapped inside on the top. Which effects the flow rate. I had several of those types in the past both with the same problems. My CPR box has been running for 5 straight years without a hiccup..

CL

Toddrtrex
06/29/2009, 08:40 PM
I have never once had any air bubbles trapped in the U-tube of my LifeReef overflow box. I have had it for 8+ years and it has never once lost its siphon, and I don't have to count an additional piece of equipment to make it work.

That is why I said I would only recommend a LifeReef one ---- there are design difference b/t it and other U-tube boxes.

IMO, if someone can't drill and non-reef ready tank, a LifeReef overflow is the only overflow box that should be used.

vikubz
06/29/2009, 08:42 PM
A properly maintained U-tube overflow does not fail. If you have enough flow going through the tube bubbles will not collect.
The siphon never breaks so it always works after a power outage, and there's no extra pump to quit or stick.

My .02

coral_lagoon
06/29/2009, 08:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278581#post15278581 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vikubz
A properly maintained U-tube overflow does not fail. If you have enough flow going through the tube bubbles will not collect.
The siphon never breaks so it always works after a power outage, and there's no extra pump to quit or stick.

My .02

I had great flow on both of mine and still got small bublles trapped inside on the top of the tubes. With that said, anything not well maintained is going to fail, or not function 100%. I guess as they say " different strokes for different folks"..

CL

sjm817
06/29/2009, 09:04 PM
The CPRs are very problematic since they always accumulate air and require an external pump to remove the air accumulation. There are multiple failure scenarios.

A good properly set up U Tube overflow will run indefinitely without issues. It requires nothing external to keep the siphon. I ran them for years and never once had a single issue. The CPR I had failed twice in 3 months.

briangg57
06/29/2009, 09:20 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278518#post15278518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coral_lagoon
With the U-tubes you also start to get an air bubble trapped inside on the top. Which effects the flow rate. I had several of those types in the past both with the same problems. My CPR box has been running for 5 straight years without a hiccup..

CL
I had this kind of hang on the tank overflow and when it lost siphon, it flooded my floor twice. Now I have an All Glass with the internal overflow and I would NEVER get an undrilled tank. Just speaking from past mopping experience.

BuddhaKiss
06/29/2009, 09:22 PM
I've never run the CPR so I can't comment on them, but IME bubbles collecting in the u-tube were due to insufficient flow. Once I upgraded my return pump, i never had problems with air bubbles getting trapped in the tube. I still prefer a RR over any HOB overflow though

GrimReefer82
06/29/2009, 09:45 PM
I have always used a CPR and have never had a problem but I didn't use a lift pump. All you have to do is run a black vinyl tube (stops algae growth inside the tube to prevent blockage) from the top of the overflow to the little aeriator on the front of a maxi-jet powerhead and place it in the sump. Mine never lost siphon after i threw my lift pump in the garbage.

coral_lagoon
06/29/2009, 09:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15279001#post15279001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
I have always used a CPR and have never had a problem but I didn't use a lift pump. All you have to do is run a black vinyl tube (stops algae growth inside the tube to prevent blockage) from the top of the overflow to the little aeriator on the front of a maxi-jet powerhead and place it in the sump. Mine never lost siphon after i threw my lift pump in the garbage.

I also have kind of same setup up for my 100gallon FO display tank.I have a internal power head hooked up with my CPR box. The powerhead is inside the tank and the airtube that the powerhead draws air is connected with my CPR overflow box. This is another way you can do it. This tank in my restuarant has been up and running for 2 years now..

CL

GrimReefer82
06/29/2009, 10:13 PM
same thing i just don't like the powerhead blowing the occasional bubbles in the DT, i would rather them stay in the sump. but it's good to know that someone else has done the same as me :)

gowingsgo
06/30/2009, 08:16 AM
I used to have a U tube HOB filter and now I have drilled tank. Although I never had a problem with my HOB filter when I upgraded to my 125 and added a larger sump I wanted total pace of mind that I would never wake up to 60 gallons of sump water on my flour. I love my drilled tank and don't think I will never own a none drilled tank aging

Superstretch18
06/30/2009, 08:23 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15280457#post15280457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gowingsgo
I used to have a U tube HOB filter and now I have drilled tank. Although I never had a problem with my HOB filter when I upgraded to my 125 and added a larger sump I wanted total pace of mind that I would never wake up to 60 gallons of sump water on my flour. I love my drilled tank and don't think I will never own a none drilled tank aging

QFT...

Personally, I would never do an overflow box again. IMO, the only reason to go with a siphon overflow box is because a tank that you already have is not drilled. A reef-ready tank (for all intents and purposes) will never overflow. An overflow box can. For me, 'nuf said.

jb61264
06/30/2009, 08:56 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15278567#post15278567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
I have never once had any air bubbles trapped in the U-tube of my LifeReef overflow box. I have had it for 8+ years and it has never once lost its siphon, and I don't have to count an additional piece of equipment to make it work.

That is why I said I would only recommend a LifeReef one ---- there are design difference b/t it and other U-tube boxes.

IMO, if someone can't drill and non-reef ready tank, a LifeReef overflow is the only overflow box that should be used. +1 on the LifeReef overflow box...a few years back when I had my 40 breeder, I used the LifeReef overflow and it worked flawlessly. Having said that, I can't ever see myself going back to using an overflow box and will always use a drilled tank from now on :)

Puffdragon
06/30/2009, 09:56 AM
I have used several types of overflows. All have overflowed at one time or another making my better half angry. All of my tanks are drilled. If the tank is not reef ready whenI get it, it gets drilled unless it is going to be a sump. Better half is much happier with no salt water landing on the floor.

Superstretch18
06/30/2009, 10:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281016#post15281016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Puffdragon
I have used several types of overflows. All have overflowed at one time or another making my better half angry. All of my tanks are drilled. If the tank is not reef ready whenI get it, it gets drilled unless it is going to be a sump. Better half is much happier with no salt water landing on the floor.

I did about $800 damage to the hardwood floors in one of my first apartments due to overflow boxes failing. Started with a u-tube, upgraded to a CPR style overflow and the powerhead siphon. Neither was perfect. There's nothing like coming home to 10 gallons of saltwater on the floor after a hard day at work. I'm lucky I didn't electrocute myself. Never again...

conorwynne
06/30/2009, 10:20 AM
I tried an overflow with a jewel tank, and while away on holidays the water crept up through the tank edge cover, and dripped down a heater cable straight onto my _raised_ power outlet.

I came back to a disaster, as a power outage occurred.
Be careful about what tank & overflow you choose. I would go for a tank with all glass sides & no plastic edge covering.

The overflow itself never failed, although I did have to add a powerhead & venturi to keep the air out of the overflow box.
I don't know if I would trust one for extended periods...

Conor.

Imzadi
06/30/2009, 10:22 AM
For me, I willl always have Drilled...

everything else for in my opinion is because for some reason the tank couldn't be drilled... so, second best. But thats just my opinion.

GrimReefer82
06/30/2009, 08:08 PM
If you have an overflow box and you install it to where it will overflow if it loses siphon then you are retarded. If you have the water level right and have the sump sectioned off correctly that wont happen. The pump might run dry but it wont throw it on the floor. You should always stop the siphon and test it to make sure it doesn't overflow. You should also unplug your pump and check for the same.

Anyways I too beleive in a drilled tank, my 90 has an internal c2c overflow and is drilled. If I ever buy another tank it too will be drilled. Drilled is always better but some people don't have that luxury.

darkdruid
06/30/2009, 08:34 PM
I've used a hang on overflow for over 10 years and I've never had an accident. As long as your flow is high enough, any air bubbles get sucked straight through and never accumilate to cause a problem.

briangg57
07/01/2009, 06:54 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15284598#post15284598 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
If you have an overflow box and you install it to where it will overflow if it loses siphon then you are retarded. If you have the water level right and have the sump sectioned off correctly that wont happen. The pump might run dry but it wont throw it on the floor. You should always stop the siphon and test it to make sure it doesn't overflow. You should also unplug your pump and check for the same.

Anyways I too beleive in a drilled tank, my 90 has an internal c2c overflow and is drilled. If I ever buy another tank it too will be drilled. Drilled is always better but some people don't have that luxury.
What a jerk you are. If you think that it is impossible for micro bubbles to collect in the U tube, then you make a mentally challenged person look like a genius. Grow a brain. Things happen to people and it doesn't mean that they a retarded. By the way, you mental giant, I know some retarded people that can spell the word believe.

llebcire
07/01/2009, 07:08 AM
I went through this in January when tank shopping and decided to drill my tank versus having a reef ready. I'm concerned about the long term reliability of a hang on overflow, and although they do well with a lifter pump, I didn't want to chance it.

I opted against a factory reef ready because of the landscape lost by the return(s), and unless the tank is very large it makes it difficult to aquascape, least for me.

I ended up creating my own overflow and in hindsight may have tried one of the others, but still wouldn't have purchased a pre-drilled tank. It cost me $20 w/bulkhead to have it drilled.

-Eric

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/llebcire/72%20Bowfront/Build/Monday%20Move/IMG_7416.jpg

briangg57
07/01/2009, 07:10 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15284598#post15284598 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
If you have an overflow box and you install it to where it will overflow if it loses siphon then you are retarded. If you have the water level right and have the sump sectioned off correctly that wont happen. The pump might run dry but it wont throw it on the floor. You should always stop the siphon and test it to make sure it doesn't overflow. You should also unplug your pump and check for the same.

Anyways I too beleive in a drilled tank, my 90 has an internal c2c overflow and is drilled. If I ever buy another tank it too will be drilled. Drilled is always better but some people don't have that luxury.
What a jerk you are. If you think that it is impossible for micro bubbles to collect in the U tube, then you make a mentally challenged person look like a genius. Grow a brain. Things happen to people and it doesn't mean that they are retarded. By the way, you mental giant, I know some retarded people that can spell the word believe. LOL LOL LOL:lol:

OneReef
07/01/2009, 07:12 AM
I have used a LifeReef external overflow for about 2 years. It has always worked perfectly and has never collected any bubbles in the U-tube. Jeff at LifeReef claimes that in all the years that he has been making them, that he has never heard of one losing siphon. I would highly recommend it if you go the external route. I have heard too many horror stories about the CPR's. One advantage of external boxes is that it leaves you more real estate in your tank for rock/coral.

With all that being said, on my next tank I am going with internal drilled overflows.

But it is correct what an earlier post said, that if your tank is set up properly, that there is no way for it to overflow. My return pump may run dry, but my tank cannot overflow. If for some reason I lost siphon in my U-tube, my return section of the sump would pump up into the tank, but that is not enought to flood it. Vice versa if my return pump failed, my return line is set to break the back siphon and my sump cannot flood.

briangg57
07/01/2009, 07:47 AM
I realize that a siphon problem usually doesn't happen. My problem was a slowly dying main pump that allowed micro bubbles to accumulate in the U tube. My point is that this system allows for accidents to happen. I'm much more content going the full-proof method.

OneReef
07/01/2009, 08:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286506#post15286506 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by briangg57
I realize that a siphon problem usually doesn't happen. My problem was a slowly dying main pump that allowed micro bubbles to accumulate in the U tube. My point is that this system allows for accidents to happen. I'm much more content going the full-proof method.



Out of curiosity, I am wondering how you think the CPR is fool-proof. Search RC and you will see tons of negatives on the CPR and none on the LifeReef u-tube. I am glad you have never had any problems with yours, hope that continues. I am not trying to argue, just pointing out previous users experiences from my searching on the subject on RC. Since I have never used a CPR and aqualifter, I was wondering on this question. If the return pump fails, does the aqualifter keep sucking water through the overflow from the tank and flood the sump?

RRaider
07/01/2009, 08:51 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286355#post15286355 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by briangg57
What a jerk you are. If you think that it is impossible for micro bubbles to collect in the U tube, then you make a mentally challenged person look like a genius. Grow a brain. Things happen to people and it doesn't mean that they are retarded. By the way, you mental giant, I know some retarded people that can spell the word believe. LOL LOL LOL:lol:

He doesn't think it's impossible for the siphon to break because of bubbles, he is saying your tank and sump should be set up so that even if it does break your tank still won't over flow. It's not rocket science. I have mine set up that way and so do many others.

Toddrtrex
07/01/2009, 09:05 AM
Lets keep the personal attacks and certain words out of this thread.

Thank you.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 11:27 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286765#post15286765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RRaider
He doesn't think it's impossible for the siphon to break because of bubbles, he is saying your tank and sump should be set up so that even if it does break your tank still won't over flow. It's not rocket science. I have mine set up that way and so do many others.

Thank You! Finally someone knows what I am saying.

Briangg57, you are going to attack me for spelling a word incorrectly? Of all words it's one that is commonly screwed up by mentally stable people as well as mentally challenged. Why am I arguing with you? You are just a roofer....:lol: :lol: :lol:

Toddrtrex
07/01/2009, 11:29 AM
GrimReefer82 --- read the post above yours.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 11:32 AM
I apologize Todd.

stevedola
07/01/2009, 12:09 PM
there should be no arguement between drilled overflows verses external overflow. a drilled OF is always better when installed correctly.

darkdruid
07/01/2009, 12:31 PM
I love my reefs but I can barely afford the hobby. I have to scrimp and save for every piece of equipment and every coral. RR tanks cost quite a bit more than a standard tank and as far as drilling a tank yourself, not that hard. But one mistake and you ruin a tank that I can't afford to replace, and accidents do happen.

RR tanks are great, but can increase the costs in other ways too. For example, special stands with an open bottom to run the plumbing. Not everyone can afford a custom built stand or would want one of the cheap pieces of crap most LFS carry and charge way too much for. My 35 is on a nice, heave table that fits it perfectly, a $5 yard sale find.

If I have to choose a maybe not the best setup in the world or give up my reefs because I can't afford it, I'll take a hang on overflow anyday. Everyone who is posting is missing the point bashing each other, as long as it works and you're happy with it, enjoy it and who gives a crap what anyone else thinks.

Alaskan Reefer
07/01/2009, 12:42 PM
Drilled if at all possible. Have it professionally done if needed -- the cost will work out similar and gravity is considerably more reliable than any siphon.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 12:44 PM
stevedola, never was there an argument saying that hang-ons were better than drilled. there was no argument until briangg57 attacked me directly.

everyone here has said that reef ready tanks are better than standard tanks with overflows.

briangg57
07/01/2009, 01:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15288059#post15288059 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
stevedola, never was there an argument saying that hang-ons were better than drilled. there was no argument until briangg57 attacked me directly.

everyone here has said that reef ready tanks are better than standard tanks with overflows.
I believe that you were the one to basically say that I must be retarded because my main pump crapped out and my tank overflowed. And this roofer has 4 guys working full time and does pretty well.LOL . And you are right, a lot of retarded people can't spell the word believe LOL.

Toddrtrex
07/01/2009, 01:13 PM
I guess I have to say this one more time.

I don't care who started what -- knock it off.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286842#post15286842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
Lets keep the personal attacks and certain words out of this thread.

Thank you.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 01:41 PM
I have already apologized and haven't attacked anyone since.

Toddrtrex
07/01/2009, 01:41 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15288381#post15288381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
I have already apologized and haven't attacked anyone since.

I know you haven't, and I thank you for that.

austin93
07/01/2009, 01:45 PM
I did extensive research on all the options of getting water to a sump and found the following.
1. If you are getting a siphon overflow get a lifereef. No other comes close to that kind of reliability.
2. Reefready tanks are great for keeping a tank flush to the wall and are very reliable. They trade these things for a major loss in tank real estate.
3. Drilling a tank is what I chose due to the relative ease (I always heard it takes 15 min to drill a hole, 10 min. to psych your self up and 5 min to drill the hole.) I bought mine as a kit from gl*******s and its great. Very small in the tank and relatively quiet. Kit even came with the drill bit and a guide. Not bad for 65$.

Good luck.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 01:46 PM
briangg57, my post was not directed at you. it was not my intention to call you retarded. i should have put it in a nicer way that if you have everything adjusted properly it is impossible for it to overflow and I apologize for that.

Imzadi
07/01/2009, 02:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286302#post15286302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by briangg57
it doesn't mean that they a retarded. By the way, you mental giant, I know some retarded people that can spell the word believe. Spell check, before you use spelling as a weapon... I agree, his post is insulting and ignorant... but to reply to it with one that is just as indignant... doesn't help.


Information is important, and the collective is important... there is far too many people in this community to start using insults and non-pc name calling. Fish... we are here for fish, not fights.

stevedola
07/01/2009, 02:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15288059#post15288059 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GrimReefer82
stevedola, never was there an argument saying that hang-ons were better than drilled. there was no argument until briangg57 attacked me directly.

everyone here has said that reef ready tanks are better than standard tanks with overflows.

i wasnt talking to you or the other guy. I was simply making a direct statement to the question.

darkdruid,
I dont think its that much more money for RR. maybe 75 to 100 all said and done. FOr the piece of mind you get its well worth it. As for the stand, just drill it.

GrimReefer82
07/01/2009, 02:52 PM
See, there you go! Why do other members think they have to be involved and insult the original people fighting. All you have done is offended me and ticked me off. Sure the post was insulting but for you to assume that I am ignorant. What happens when you assume something? It makeas an A*S out of U and ME. Congratulations in making the argument resurface! I apologized to everyone involved and all you had to do was keep your fingers off the keys about it. And if my post in any way offends you then I apologize to you also. Just how I feel.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15288519#post15288519 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imzadi
Spell check, before you use spelling as a weapon... I agree, his post is insulting and ignorant... but to reply to it with one that is just as indignant... doesn't help.


Information is important, and the collective is important... there is far too many people in this community to start using insults and non-pc name calling. Fish... we are here for fish, not fights.

Toddrtrex
07/01/2009, 02:54 PM
I don't care any more who said what, and who started it.

Knock it off with trying to get the last word it. Let it drop.

fewskillz
07/01/2009, 07:43 PM
glass-holes.com I highly recommend getting one of their overflow kits and drilling the tank yourself. Thats what I did for my 125. It's worked great for a year now. I'll buy from them again.

The only reason to pay for a RR tank is when you need it flush against the wall.