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View Full Version : My fault for not Qting, but no excuses for shipping sick fish!


aoeBombcat
06/29/2009, 08:07 PM
My fault for not Qting, but no excuses for shipping sick fish!

You don’t have to believe anything I said in this post, but I don’t have to lie and I know it for a fact.

This will be my final complain. I promised and I promised that I will never ever buy from L.A. ever again! This is it!! I have enough of the diseased fish that L.A. ships me. First was a fish w/ Pop Eye (die), then one with dropsy (die), and guess what! This Regal I just got from L.A. has fluke!! Even though credits were given, this disease could have killed all my other fishes.

My tank has been running for over 2 years never has fluke before I got the 3 orders from L.A.

I got this regal on Saturday morning, I was so happy about getting it. It looked very colorful and I even posted a photo of the nice fish. But then Saturday night, my wife noticed the fish twitches its head and body once a while. I then posted an update of the fish. Gwen PMed me and asked me to keep an eye on the fish and he think it has external parasites.

So when I got home today, I noticed one of its eye is cloudy, and what looked like a fluke (clear looking sesame seed size). I then got ****ed and started my emergency fresh water bath preparation. I check the temp and PH and slowly added the fish into the fresh water bath.
At around 2 – 3 minutes, the regal spits out something like white sesame seeds. And then more and more, but the one on the eye was still attached. I had to wait around 9 minutes for it to fall off. Then I waited 1 more minutes.

Here are the photos of all the fluke is on 1 single fish from a fresh water bath of 10 minutes.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/42737_MG_3814_resize.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/42737_MG_3814_sm2_resize.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/42737_MG_3814_sm_resize.jpg

Now I noticed some of my other fish the Golden Butterflyfish, Raccoon Butterflyfish and the Black Back Butterflyfish are doing the head twitching. I am worry that it will affect my original fishes.

I don’t know why Drs. F & S and L.A. would do this to their loyal customers. I have spent over $1000 with them in the month of June and was planning on buying more from them. Guess what, not a chance.

All the flukes parasite is from the regal, at least 40 individual parasites. And no it is not sesame seeds. I should have take the photo of the eye before I do the fresh water bath, but it didn’t cross my mine.

Related posts
Dropsy
Dropsy (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1660309)

Pop Eye
Pop Eye (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1657974)

This post is my personal experiences with L.A., if you have good experiences with L.A. Good for you. But I will never order from them ever again. I gave them more then enough chances.

dustinP
06/29/2009, 08:16 PM
not to attack you but i have to ask, if you got the fish and all looked great and the signs of flukes didnt appear on the fish until a few days after you added it to your tank then how do you expect them to have noticed it before it was shipped?

aoeBombcat
06/29/2009, 09:03 PM
dustinP,

The head twitching of head and body was noticed on the same night but I didn't think it would have fluke, the pop eye was noticed on the same night in the Q tank and the dropsy was noticed on the same night as well. I might not have noticed it because I received a couple of fish at a time, and I don't check every one that closely.

The fish can look great, but it can still have the parasite, just not enough to cause a problem.

As a big fish shipper like L.A., don't they medicate all their fish when they receive them? Don't they have marine biologist on the site to check to see if the fish has symptom of parasites or diseases? If the fish I received have flukes and they didn't show any signs before they shipped them, doesn't that mean they have flukes in the site and all their holding tanks?

I trusted L.A. they stated they have the finest aquatic life. True that they didn't say disease free or parasite free.

I know I am stressed.

dfs/la2
06/29/2009, 09:29 PM
aoeBombcat,

Thank you for your post. We are sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with the orders you have received. A PM has been sent to you in regards to this matter.

Mike S.
LiveAquaria (http://www.liveaquaria.com)
Drs. Foster and Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com)

aoeBombcat
06/30/2009, 06:31 AM
Mike, Your PM stated to call you guys, but what is the point of calling you guys now. Everything is too late. The fish is sick, my tank is infested. I am disappointed.

There's nothing you can do to fix the my display tank, since I am not going to take every piece of rocks out, and try to catch every single fish. And I can not medicate my tank since I have live rocks, snails, hermit crabs shrimps and corals in the tank.

luvmylo
06/30/2009, 06:34 AM
seems like to me instead of contacting them first you came here to rant. I don't think that's really going to help your cause any. I understand it sucks to get sick fish but I think you are more likely to get somewhere trying to handle this in a more civilized manner with the company themselves. I have heard nothing but good things about f and s customer service but that's just me.

aoeBombcat
06/30/2009, 07:05 AM
Luvmylo, I have never said they don't have good customer service. They are great with customer services. I am complaining about their sick fish. How do you know I didn't speak to them. When I was on the phone with Stacei (she is really friendly) before they shipped out the fish, I asked her specifically that if the fish is sick or diseased, she said "NO, we wouldn't ship out a sick fish", and guess what, this is what I got for trusting them.

I have 3 shipments of sick fish in 2 weeks. What will you do, if they keep mailing you sick fish? Be civilized? Having I gave them enough chances? Shouldn't every one hear about the bad as well? If no one complains here? Who will know they are not as good as everybody said? That's why we have BBB and consumer affairs or this message board, so every one can post their good and bad services.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine, maybe you have better luck with them. How many times have you ordered from L.A.? Have you received any sick fish? I ordered 13 fish in 2 weeks and 3 most expensive fishes I ordered are all sick, 2 dead and 1 infested with fluke. I paid $150 in shipping and handle to find the fish I like the most sick or die and I might have to order again. Would you want to pay for more shipping fees to get sick fish?

And also, I know by contacting them, they will say, we can give you store credit or refund. But sometimes refund is not the solution.

Good Luck.

aquaticvet1
06/30/2009, 08:44 AM
I have carefully followed your discontent from the beginning and please accept my apologies. Liveaquaria will refund all of your money including shipping. For a variety of reasons , I do think it is better that you place no future orders with Liveaquaria.

If any of the other hobbyist's who placed the approx 2,400 orders which were sent out during this time period have had similar problems, please contact our customer service department or post here for a full refund including shipping. I am confused as to why we have had no similar complaints and would like to ensure complete customer satisfaction.

To all RC members and others within the hobby, please feel free to post your good and negative experiences. It is important to let the hobby, and me, know how we are doing.

Thank you, Race Foster, D.V.M.

dfs/la2
06/30/2009, 08:48 AM
aoeBombcat,

As Dr. Foster has stated, we are in the process of crediting you in full for this order. This credit will appear back on your statement within 3 business days. We will send you a PM with the amount of the credit.

Dallas M.
LiveAquaria (http://www.liveaquaria.com/default.cfm?siteid=20)
Drs. Foster & Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/)

aoeBombcat
06/30/2009, 08:54 AM
Sorry that I have to post and document my orders Dr. Foster. It is not my intention to get full refunds of all my orders. I was very upset of my situations. When ever I receive a package something is not right. Your team has being more then helpful to answer my questions and request. But I am just stressed.

Thank you for following the post as to my orders.

SWINGRRRR
06/30/2009, 08:57 AM
Wow. Cant ask for more than that. Getting a response from the guy with the first last name, in the company's name.

ryshark
06/30/2009, 09:30 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15280272#post15280272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaticvet1
I have carefully followed your discontent from the beginning and please accept my apologies. Liveaquaria will refund all of your money including shipping. For a variety of reasons , I do think it is better that you place no future orders with Liveaquaria.

If any of the other hobbyist's who placed the approx 2,400 orders which were sent out during this time period have had similar problems, please contact our customer service department or post here for a full refund including shipping. I am confused as to why we have had no similar complaints and would like to ensure complete customer satisfaction.

To all RC members and others within the hobby, please feel free to post your good and negative experiences. It is important to let the hobby, and me, know how we are doing.

Thank you, Race Foster, D.V.M.

Now that is customer service. At this point in the game, you could not ask for anything more. I think they went above and beyond to make things better. I have a fallow 180-gallon which will be ready for fish August 1st and I know where I will be getting fish from.

aoeBombcat
06/30/2009, 09:35 AM
I do agree they went way beyond of what they needed to do. And that's not what I asked for. That's why I always said they have great Customer Services.

LargeAngels
06/30/2009, 10:20 AM
I don't care who you get fish from it is never a good idea to put them in your main tank without QT first. QT is not only to inspect/treat for disease. It is also to allow the fish to recover in as stress free of an environment from being shipped half way around the world (being bagged, shipped, acclimanted, bagged, shipped and acclimated again) as possible. Allow the fish to recover and start eating so that it doesnt' have to compete with the other established fish.

LiveAquaria is a first rate company and I can tell you from visiting the wholesaler in LA on a couple of occasions that they are top notch in quality and care of their fish.

dustinP
06/30/2009, 11:36 AM
i must say that adding what 12 fish in the matter of two weeks is just asking for trouble, thats just way to many fish to add in that short amount of time. also the diseases could have never have been noticeable at the wholesaler and only have started to take over and be noticeable once the fish got stressed from shipping to your house

ryshark
06/30/2009, 12:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281265#post15281265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dustinP
i must say that adding what 12 fish in the matter of two weeks is just asking for trouble, thats just way to many fish to add in that short amount of time. also the diseases could have never have been noticeable at the wholesaler and only have started to take over and be noticeable once the fish got stressed from shipping to your house

You mention the fishes from liveaquaria being shipped from a wholesaler. So does that mean they are not QT'd by liveaquaria first before being shipped?

aoeBombcat
06/30/2009, 12:45 PM
I was not going to post any more, but I had the same question and I did a search and found the answers.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1607014

I will no longer reply to this post, since the issue has been resolved.

Thank you for reading.

dustinP
06/30/2009, 12:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281535#post15281535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ryshark
You mention the fishes from liveaquaria being shipped from a wholesaler. So does that mean they are not QT'd by liveaquaria first before being shipped?
liveaquaria is kind of like a wholesaler to the public, i meant to say liveaquaria but must have been thinking about something else. i apologize

PaxRoma
06/30/2009, 10:11 PM
I am frankly quite upset with DFS right now. They forgot to medicate my flame angel with Ritalin before shipping out. He now chases every fish in the tank except for the bigger tangs :mad2:

jdieck
06/30/2009, 10:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15279944#post15279944 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aoeBombcat
I ordered 13 fish in 2 weeks...
13 fish in two weeks in a 90 gal tank? If the tank was that empty, how long has it been cycled? Just wondering.

jmaneyapanda
07/02/2009, 11:53 AM
aoebombcat- I just bought a car, and drove out of the lot and smashed it into a telephone pole. Man, those jerks at the dealership sold me a defective car! Its all their fault.

Puh-leez. You accusations and claims are absurd. Im glad Dr. Foster told you to bugger off. You got your money back, now you'll have to buy your fish somewhere else. Good riddance.

pugbreath13
07/02/2009, 12:50 PM
Dr. Foster....you are the man! All my orders from you in the past have been excellent. One fish loss ever and my account was credited. I have been ordering from you for over 6 years/5 tanks and will be again in the next few weeks to fill up my new 70G.

ryshark
07/02/2009, 04:01 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15293541#post15293541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
aoebombcat- I just bought a car, and drove out of the lot and smashed it into a telephone pole. Man, those jerks at the dealership sold me a defective car! Its all their fault.



Thats not a very good analogy.

jmaneyapanda
07/02/2009, 09:16 PM
I think it ABSOLUTELY is. The more than assuredly cause of any health issues with the fish was with the recipient. As explained, no otehr customers had the epidemic that he did, and coincidentally, ALL the fish he ordered had a malady which appeared only after arrival, and introduction into the display.

Taking a, by all appearances, healthy group of fish, placing them in a common area, and having them all afflicted, and then blaming the source. IMO, user error which he is blaming on the supplier. Nonsense.

jmaneyapanda
07/02/2009, 09:16 PM
I think it ABSOLUTELY is. The more than assuredly cause of any health issues with the fish was with the recipient. As explained, no otehr customers had the epidemic that he did, and coincidentally, ALL the fish he ordered had a malady which appeared only after arrival, and introduction into the display.

Taking a, by all appearances, healthy group of fish, placing them in a common area, and having them all afflicted, and then blaming the source. IMO, user error which he is blaming on the supplier. Nonsense.

Ralph ATL
07/02/2009, 09:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15294751#post15294751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ryshark
Thats not a very good analogy.


actually, close enough! When I read this thread yesterday, it got me kinda sick at the lack of personal responsibility here. Just ludicrous. At some point, individuals must accept responsibility.
Ralph

.........................and I just ordered a Med Male Halichoeres melanurus that will be arriving by 10:30 am tomorrow! Sweet!
These guys (& gals) are the best in the business, period.

aoeBombcat
07/03/2009, 07:23 AM
Jmaneyapanda, If you think I lie, so be it. Yes I do agree that I am responsible for not Qting the new fish. But how do you explain my DT disease free for 2 years and the only fish I got was from L.A.

I didn't only add all 3 fish to my display tank. The Multi-color was in a 20 Long QT, it didn't make it to the DT. I only added the bigger fishes to the DT. Remember I ordered 13 fishes. And if you noticed that not all 13 fishes has the symptoms. Not all 3 fish has the same diseases. Not all 13 fishes is sick. Some might be infested afterward. And more then 1/2 of the fish are still in the display tank with no issues. How do you explain those? If I am really going for free fishes. Wouldn't it be better for me to order 2 or 3 fishes and just call them and ask for refund because of dead fish? Or wouldn't I be asking for refunds of all 13 fishes? I didn't. It was Dr. Foster who offered the refund of all the sick fishes and their shipping. Not for all 13 fishes. I might sound like an idiot and mean about the issue, but think about this. Who will really be benefiting from it. I might be the only extreme case. But how many did actually called in and ask for refund of sick/dead fish?

I don't mind being call a lair since I know for a fact that I am not.

To answer your statement, healthy by appearances does that mean the fish is not sick? Fish with fluke can appear healthy. Fish with early Internal infections can appear healthy. Fish with Ick can appear healthy.

A car with a minor brake line leakage can appear perfect.
A car with transmission issue can appear perfect.
A car with engine issue can appear perfect.

So from now on, if any one wants to call me a liar, so be it. I think this issue is closed. And I do believe L.A. does sell top quality fishes. I have a few of them. Its just happened to my orders, boxes were dropped maybe that caused more stress on the fishes.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15296343#post15296343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
I think it ABSOLUTELY is. The more than assuredly cause of any health issues with the fish was with the recipient. As explained, no otehr customers had the epidemic that he did, and coincidentally, ALL the fish he ordered had a malady which appeared only after arrival, and introduction into the display.

Taking a, by all appearances, healthy group of fish, placing them in a common area, and having them all afflicted, and then blaming the source. IMO, user error which he is blaming on the supplier. Nonsense.

1mbrews8
07/03/2009, 09:52 PM
fishes? :o)

Ralph ATL
07/03/2009, 10:14 PM
unless I'm a lfs, or the GA Aquarium, adding 13 fish in such a short period of time is ...................................(add your own adjective), and what you did to your bio load, acclimation, species placement, species compatibility,.............and on, and on, and on.................................just totally self inflicting.

never mind watching each individual for behaviors.....................................as I said before.......ludicris.

trashing THE best place to get livestock due to your ignorance, well, ...............................(fill in the blank please).

Ralph

Superstretch18
07/03/2009, 10:36 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15301321#post15301321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1mbrews8
fishes? :o)

The plural of "fish" can be either "fish" or "fishes." Either is correct.

Back on topic, if the fish in question looked healthy when you received it, then I'm not sure how the seller would have thought differently. Stress from transport could have caused a non issue to develop into a full blown outbreak.

Regardless, if you are dealing with livestock, you will eventually deal with disease. No matter who you buy from, no one in a selling environment can eliminate disease 100% of the time. To expect otherwise is unrealistic...

FWIW, it's really a pet peeve of mine when people have an issue with a company and their first reaction is to post on a forum. Give them an opportunity to correct or at least address the issue before dragging them through the mud.

Five stars for Liveaquaria in dealing with this issue that really was beyond their control...

aoeBombcat
07/04/2009, 09:12 AM
I think I do own Drs F. & S. and L.A. an apology for coming up here and posting the whole situation before giving them a chance to correct the issue. But I was totally stressed, my brain was not functioning correctly. If you were here to see me at home at the time, you will be able to see how stressful and upset I was. I have calm down a lot more and started to rethink the issue. I have always said I am being stupid for not QTing the fish and I have accepted my stupidity and are currently dealing with issue. I have picked up a couple of QT and torn down the DT and started to treat all the fish regardless of it being sick or not.

Drs. F. & S. and L.A. is top 5 star company to buy from no questions about it. And I am sure my issue is one in a million due to a number of factors including myself not QTing the fish.

Drs. F. & S. and L.A. please continue your great job and I am sure there will be no other place to match your level of service.

huskerreef
07/07/2009, 10:38 PM
Wow, talk about a quick change of heart. Thats the bad part of forums and emails, you can say whatever you want with little or no concern for the other party. To not call personally when asked is cowardess and hiding behind the computer is an easy way to say things in a way you would never say face to face. I have spent considerably more than you with these guys, have I lost a fish along the way, yes. But overall quality is A+. I have ordered some very pricey fish from them and other online sources, you can tell they know the difference and the additional care in shipping a fish that costs over $1000. Liveaquaria is a first rate supplier.

jmaneyapanda
07/10/2009, 11:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15322028#post15322028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by huskerreef
Wow, talk about a quick change of heart. Thats the bad part of forums and emails, you can say whatever you want with little or no concern for the other party. To not call personally when asked is cowardess and hiding behind the computer is an easy way to say things in a way you would never say face to face. I have spent considerably more than you with these guys, have I lost a fish along the way, yes. But overall quality is A+. I have ordered some very pricey fish from them and other online sources, you can tell they know the difference and the additional care in shipping a fish that costs over $1000. Liveaquaria is a first rate supplier.

Agreed. Do I think they are at fault- absolutely not. But you do. Fine, I dont absolutely know (nor do I care). I am just irritated that your response was to immediate post a "hate thread" about it. That is irresponsible. Knee jerk reactions?! You ahve like 3 or 4 other therads on the same shipment! You HAVE burnt your bridges with them apparently, as the owner of the company has told you to shop elsewhere. Good for him, and good for us.

PS- If a car has a faulty brakeline, transmission, or engine, it can be determined empirically. If these fish had these ailments BEFORE you crammed them into your tank without QT, this cannot. And ALL other evidence leads to the fact that the fault is yours. But, thats neither here nor there. Good luck to you.

ediaz
07/13/2009, 02:58 PM
If God himself shows up in my fish room, makes a fish right in front of my eyes...Ill still put it in QT for 2 months.

just my 1 cent, sorry hard times...

E

coral_lagoon
07/13/2009, 03:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15351727#post15351727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz
If God himself shows up in my fish room, makes a fish right in front of my eyes...Ill still put it in QT for 2 months.

just my 1 cent, sorry hard times...

E

A freshwater dip with Methlyne blue can do wonders..:D

LargeAngels
07/14/2009, 07:38 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15352054#post15352054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coral_lagoon
A freshwater dip with Methlyne blue can do wonders..:D

Unfortunately that only works on some things and even then it is only a temporary relief.

rmougey
07/14/2009, 08:59 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15351727#post15351727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz
If God himself shows up in my fish room, makes a fish right in front of my eyes...Ill still put it in QT for 2 months.

just my 1 cent, sorry hard times...

E

That's excellent!! :D

-Rob

PaxRoma
07/14/2009, 09:36 PM
in my opinion, QT does not cure or eliminate any disease. A properly QT fish does introduce the infective organism, however at a quantity very low that will hopefully not enough to cause an outbreak.
For example, if you put a new fish in the main tank, the fish immune system is under stress and the bad bugs now multiply by the billions and so now you introduce billions of these bugs in your tank.
If you QT the fish, the immune system is still under stress and the bugs still multiply by the billions until you treat the fish or its immune system successfully overcome the bugs and brings the number down to very low. Now you introduce the fish to the main tank, it will still carry these bugs to the main tank, but not enough to cause an outbreak in the main tank.

*disclaimer: This is my deduction from what I know about human bugs. Following these advices does not guarantee your fish from getting fish AIDS, fish Ebola, fish Flu, fish cancer. Consult your fish doc for more information.