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Mpthreer
06/30/2009, 02:36 PM
My ph usually has been staying around 7.8-8.1 which is fine with me, I'd rather not jack up my calcium/alk levels by adding too much ph buffer, which would raise my alk too much. But I am beginning to worry because my ph was at 7.5 this morning, I did recently start running my fuge 24/7. Mabe I should put it back to where the fuge only runs at night, mabe an hour before lights out and an hour after lights turn on. Please give me advice on proper ph control. I really need to do it safely. Thanks a lot!

HighlandReefer
06/30/2009, 04:10 PM
Running your refugium at night only will help maintain your pH up at night.

Switching to kalk water for maintaining your alk. and calcium will help increase your pH also.

Anytime a hobbyists states their pH drops down below 7.8 and they are maintaining alk. levels at the higher end, say round 10-11, then I recommend that you make sure you have recently calibrated your pH meter with 7 & 11 calibrating solutions per the directions. You should re-calibrate at least once per month. The other thing to look for is electrical interference with your pH meter. Take a cup of tank water out and put your probe in it after it is calibrated to test for electrical interference.

Mpthreer
06/30/2009, 04:36 PM
I recalibrated both of them last month, My co2 is off in my calcium reactor and both probes are really close to each other. I hope they are right cause I'm out of calibration soloution..... As soon as my alk gets down to an acceptable level I will constantly dose kalk at night on a timer. Right now I just turn my kalk stirrer on whenever my calcium level gets a bit low. Thanks a lot for the input!

HighlandReefer
06/30/2009, 04:52 PM
If you dose your alk buffer to maintain your pH you will end up with high alk. levels. I would use baking soda for alk. adjustments (or if you want a pH increase use baked baking soda) and only add it to increase your alk. & don't worry about pH.

I would max out the use of kalk water for the best increase in your pH. Calcium reactors will reduce pH from the CO2 used.

Mpthreer
06/30/2009, 05:36 PM
thank you highland, I'll go with that and everything should work out, I really appricate your input :)

bertoni
06/30/2009, 07:58 PM
I'd move the pH probe, if possible. 7.5 isn't believable for a tank. The live rock would start to dissolve. You might try measuring the tank pH in the morning a few times, just to see what might be up.

scaryperson27
06/30/2009, 10:56 PM
It wouldn't Dissolve at 7.5... That starts happening at around 6.25ish or below.

I would get some fresh air into the room and see if that solves your problem. I see that you live in Texas, so you must be getting the summer heat over there pretty bad. As a result, you have probably not been opening any windows, that or in general you're probably avoiding getting any hot outside air into your house.

Grow some plants in your house to help keep the air fresh. All of this would help with PH.

scaryperson27
06/30/2009, 10:57 PM
Have you been using Seachem's Reef Buffer for your system? I know the Builder (alkalinity) has different Trace elements such as Potassium in it. This helps with coral color.

Take that into consideration.

jdieck
06/30/2009, 11:08 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15285549#post15285549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scaryperson27
It wouldn't Dissolve at 7.5... That starts happening at around 6.25ish or below.

Sorry but that is not accurate...

Many calcium reactors run at 6.8 to 6.9 and work perfectly dissolving the aragonite media to maintain alkalinity.

At which PH aragonite starts dissolving depends on the levels of Calcium and Alkalinity
Given very low levels of calcium and lakalinity dissolution may start at a relatively high PH.

As an example ; dissolution of aragonite begins in either of this two cases:

pH = 7.7
Calcium = 410 ppm
Alkalinity = 2.5 meq/L

or

PH = 8.2
Calcium = 340 ppm
Alkalinity = 1.0 meq/L

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 05:27 AM
Well, I take that back it was at 7.6 on the scale, I should have tested it with my API ph test kit to double check as I have in the past. I have the reef builder and calcium advantage from seachem, but I just use it as adjustments when necessary. We open screen doors as often as possible, mabe It will help, thank you all for your help.

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 05:28 AM
PS: It was back up to eight when I got off work today...... I'll start double checking my probe readings with the api test kit.

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 05:36 AM
Ok its morning time, I just went in there. My ph 1 probe says 7.55, the ph 2 in my calcium reactor says 7.7, there is no co2 on in the reactor. I am still running my fuge 24/7. I tested with the api high range ph test. It appeared that the 7.55 was correct. The calcium reactor feed is so slow that it hasnt purged all the water from the daytime and I guess that is why it is still higher.
Like I said, at the end of the day my ph probes both said 7.9-8.0. What can I do?

HighlandReefer
07/01/2009, 05:37 AM
If you get algae growth on your pH probe, it may skew the results. I find I need to clean my probe periodically. Manufacturers usually claim around 1 1/2 years for the life of a probe.

ReefWreak
07/01/2009, 06:09 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286104#post15286104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HighlandReefer
If you get algae growth on your pH probe, it may skew the results. I find I need to clean my probe periodically. Manufacturers usually claim around 1 1/2 years for the life of a probe.

I don't know about other probes, but the probe that came with my Aquatronica controller is 3 years old at least, and it still gives accurate readings. I calibrate it every 6 months with pinpoint 7 and 10, and it never needs adjusting. I think that kind of longevity is pretty nuts for something in this hobby, but whatever, as long as it's still calibrating, I'm going to keep on keeping on with it...

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 06:30 AM
I added a bit of calc advantage and reef buffer seperately from seachem this morning. My ph is already rising...... I guess I need to start dosing kalk again at night, but I dont see it raising my ph enough without od'ing calcium.... I dont know I'm still very new to the hobby, any input is very much appricated, Thanks a lot guys!

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 06:31 AM
Ps, i did the reef buffer because it said with time that it usually makes the ph tend to buffer out around 8.3. I wish it would work but I'm not gonna overdo it. Thanks again

jdieck
07/01/2009, 10:50 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286240#post15286240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mpthreer
Ps, i did the reef buffer because it said with time that it usually makes the ph tend to buffer out around 8.3. I wish it would work but I'm not gonna overdo it. Thanks again
Unfortunately that is true only if the CO2 dissolved in the water is at a normal level which usually never is.

jdieck
07/01/2009, 10:53 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286237#post15286237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mpthreer
I added a bit of calc advantage and reef buffer seperately from seachem this morning. My ph is already rising...... I guess I need to start dosing kalk again at night, but I dont see it raising my ph enough without od'ing calcium.... I dont know I'm still very new to the hobby, any input is very much appricated, Thanks a lot guys!
What is your calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels? Too low or too high may create PH problems. Have you noticed any calcium carbonate precipitation?

bertoni
07/01/2009, 11:27 AM
The solubility of aragonite in water varies with the pH. Certainly a lower pH will dissolve more than a higher one over the relevant range, but at 7.5, there should be some dissolution happening. That's why high atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are a danger to the reef.

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 06:41 PM
Before I added the recommended dosages of buffer and calc adv. my calcium level was at 370 and my alk was at 11, the mag was right under 1200. Right now in the tank my ph is at 8.0 and 8.1 in my calcium reactor (still have the co2 turned off on it). I tested with api high range ph test kit just now and it showed 8.0. Tonight I fear the ph level will drop once again. Thank you all for your input!

Mpthreer
07/01/2009, 06:44 PM
PS, i think why i dont see the rock depleteing is because the ph probably takes until 1-2 in the morning, mabe even later to reach its lowest level, then starts to rise again at probably 7 o clock am as I am getting to work (lights on at 6:30). How can there be that much photosynthesis in my tank at this moment? what else creates the nighttime fall of ph?

luther1200
07/01/2009, 06:52 PM
I am having a similar problem. My pH is dropping to 7.65 some nights. And I drip kalk 24/7. I know its from closing to windows and my tank is in my bedroom which isn't a big room. But its to hot not to put the a/c on and get a good nights sleep. I have used Seachem's reef builder twice in the past 2 weeks. It was below 7.7 twice so I dosed a bit of the reff builder. All my other measurements are good. My Alk is at 8 band my Ca is 410. SO what should I do? Increase the drip rate of my kalk?

jdieck
07/01/2009, 07:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15289975#post15289975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mpthreer
Before I added the recommended dosages of buffer and calc adv. my calcium level was at 370 and my alk was at 11, the mag was right under 1200. Right now in the tank my ph is at 8.0 and 8.1 in my calcium reactor (still have the co2 turned off on it). I tested with api high range ph test kit just now and it showed 8.0. Tonight I fear the ph level will drop once again. Thank you all for your input!
Stop adding alkalinity (or PH buffer) and just keep on adding calcium supplement and magnesium until you reach 420 ppm and 1300 respectively. Once alkalinity is back down to 10 dKh you can start alkalinity suplementation again. Keep the calcium reactor off and do not add Kalk either.

jdieck
07/01/2009, 07:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15289999#post15289999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mpthreer
PS, i think why i dont see the rock depleteing is because the ph probably takes until 1-2 in the morning, mabe even later to reach its lowest level, then starts to rise again at probably 7 o clock am as I am getting to work (lights on at 6:30). How can there be that much photosynthesis in my tank at this moment? what else creates the nighttime fall of ph?
At night is when CO2 is the highest due to respiration and because algae is not taking it up for photosinthesis.

jdieck
07/01/2009, 07:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15290042#post15290042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luther1200
I am having a similar problem. My pH is dropping to 7.65 some nights. And I drip kalk 24/7. I know its from closing to windows and my tank is in my bedroom which isn't a big room. But its to hot not to put the a/c on and get a good nights sleep. I have used Seachem's reef builder twice in the past 2 weeks. It was below 7.7 twice so I dosed a bit of the reff builder. All my other measurements are good. My Alk is at 8 band my Ca is 410. SO what should I do? Increase the drip rate of my kalk?
You may increase the rate of Kalk as far as you do not exceed evaporation or the actual alkalinity level doe not increase excesively.
Try better surface agitation and if possible run some tube from the outside to feed fresh air to the skimmer.

Boomer
07/01/2009, 11:08 PM
RW

I think that kind of longevity is pretty nuts for something in this hobby

Tha is nuts anywhere but not impossibe. I have a Horiba Caddy "credit card" and the probe lasted for more than 5 years. Probes are suppost to be pitched in 1 year or are at least in most labs. 2 years is usually std, then can it. There are 2 tricks for making them last longer.

1. By pre-soaking the probe in 2- 4M KCl after cleaning and before calibration extends probe life. Also letting it sit in each cal solution for a couple of minutes is better than a quick dip. Cleaning should actually be a rotaing cycle in 0.1 M NaOH and then 0.1M HCL for at least 2 cycles

2. The faster the flow past the probe the more it will drain the electrolyte from the probe. So, one needs a gentle flow past the probe.

Mpthreer
07/02/2009, 05:53 AM
Thanks a lot jdieck, I sure appricate it very much, and will stick with the regime you listed above. And do you guys think as long as my probes are reading correctly with my other ph test kits, everything should be ok right? thanks!

Mpthreer
07/03/2009, 05:35 AM
Wow, Just keeping both doors to the apt open at night, with the screen shut, Held my ph up at 7.84 instead of 7.55/7.6 like it had been for four or five nights before. Thanks a lot for the help guys, I never thought there would be such a build up of co2 in here.

Mpthreer
07/03/2009, 05:37 AM
Here is what I've been dealing with, and today was the first sign of improvement! :)

Date Temp pH pH2
23:00 06/25/2009 79.3 7.86 7.96
00:00 06/26/2009 79.1 7.84 7.94
01:00 06/26/2009 79.2 7.83 7.92
02:00 06/26/2009 79.3 7.82 7.91
03:00 06/26/2009 78.9 7.81 7.90
04:00 06/26/2009 79.3 7.79 7.89
05:00 06/26/2009 79.0 7.78 7.88
06:00 06/26/2009 78.8 7.77 7.87
07:00 06/26/2009 79.2 7.76 7.85
08:00 06/26/2009 79.1 7.75 7.85
09:00 06/26/2009 78.9 7.77 7.85
10:00 06/26/2009 78.9 7.77 7.85
11:00 06/26/2009 79.0 7.78 7.85
12:00 06/26/2009 79.1 7.78 7.85
13:00 06/26/2009 79.2 7.83 7.87
14:00 06/26/2009 79.2 7.83 7.90
15:00 06/26/2009 79.1 7.83 7.91
16:00 06/26/2009 79.0 7.84 7.91
17:00 06/26/2009 78.9 7.84 7.92
18:00 06/26/2009 79.2 7.86 7.93
19:00 06/26/2009 79.0 7.86 7.93
20:00 06/26/2009 79.2 8.01 7.96
21:00 06/26/2009 79.2 8.01 8.02
22:00 06/26/2009 78.9 8.01 8.04
23:00 06/26/2009 79.0 8.00 8.05
00:00 06/27/2009 79.0 8.00 8.05
01:00 06/27/2009 79.0 7.99 8.05
02:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.97 8.03
03:00 06/27/2009 79.2 7.96 8.02
04:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.95 8.01
05:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.94 7.99
06:00 06/27/2009 79.3 7.90 7.98
07:00 06/27/2009 79.2 7.87 7.95
08:00 06/27/2009 79.0 7.86 7.94
09:00 06/27/2009 78.9 7.86 7.94
10:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.86 7.94
11:00 06/27/2009 79.2 7.86 7.93
12:00 06/27/2009 78.8 7.88 7.93
13:00 06/27/2009 79.0 7.88 7.94
14:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.86 7.94
15:00 06/27/2009 78.9 7.85 7.94
16:00 06/27/2009 78.8 7.87 7.93
17:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.88 7.95
18:00 06/27/2009 79.0 7.89 7.96
19:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.90 7.96
20:00 06/27/2009 79.1 7.90 7.96
21:00 06/27/2009 78.9 7.90 7.96
22:00 06/27/2009 79.3 7.90 7.96
23:00 06/27/2009 79.2 7.90 7.96
00:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.90 7.96
01:00 06/28/2009 79.2 7.90 7.96
02:00 06/28/2009 79.2 7.90 7.96
03:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.90 7.96
04:00 06/28/2009 78.9 7.90 7.96
05:00 06/28/2009 79.1 7.90 7.96
06:00 06/28/2009 79.3 7.88 7.96
07:00 06/28/2009 79.2 7.88 7.96
08:00 06/28/2009 79.2 7.88 7.96
09:00 06/28/2009 78.8 7.91 7.96
10:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.92 7.97
11:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.93 7.98
12:00 06/28/2009 79.1 7.94 7.99
13:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.94 8.00
14:00 06/28/2009 78.9 7.94 8.00
15:00 06/28/2009 79.3 7.94 8.00
16:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.94 8.00
17:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.94 8.00
18:00 06/28/2009 79.3 7.92 8.00
19:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.97 8.00
20:00 06/28/2009 79.0 7.95 8.01
21:00 06/28/2009 78.8 7.92 8.00
22:00 06/28/2009 79.1 7.89 7.98
23:00 06/28/2009 79.3 7.87 7.96
00:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.85 7.94
01:00 06/29/2009 79.1 7.83 7.93
02:00 06/29/2009 78.8 7.82 7.91
03:00 06/29/2009 79.2 7.80 7.90
04:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.79 7.89
05:00 06/29/2009 78.8 7.78 7.88
06:00 06/29/2009 79.2 7.76 7.86
07:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.75 7.85
08:00 06/29/2009 78.8 7.75 7.84
09:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.75 7.84
10:00 06/29/2009 79.1 7.77 7.84
11:00 06/29/2009 79.1 7.78 7.84
12:00 06/29/2009 78.9 7.79 7.85
13:00 06/29/2009 79.1 7.80 7.87
14:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.81 7.88
15:00 06/29/2009 78.9 7.83 7.89
16:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.84 7.91
17:00 06/29/2009 78.9 7.86 7.92
18:00 06/29/2009 79.1 7.87 7.93
19:00 06/29/2009 78.9 7.88 7.94
20:00 06/29/2009 79.2 7.85 7.94
21:00 06/29/2009 79.3 7.81 7.93
22:00 06/29/2009 79.0 7.78 7.89
23:00 06/29/2009 78.8 7.74 7.87
00:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.71 7.84
01:00 06/30/2009 79.3 7.69 7.82
02:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.68 7.80
03:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.67 7.79
04:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.66 7.77
05:00 06/30/2009 79.0 7.65 7.76
06:00 06/30/2009 79.4 7.64 7.75
07:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.63 7.75
08:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.63 7.75
09:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.70 7.75
10:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.75 7.79
11:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.80 7.83
12:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.85 7.87
13:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.88 7.91
14:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.90 7.93
15:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.91 7.96
16:00 06/30/2009 79.1 7.92 7.96
17:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.92 7.97
18:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.92 7.98
19:00 06/30/2009 79.2 7.90 7.98
20:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.87 7.96
21:00 06/30/2009 79.0 7.83 7.94
22:00 06/30/2009 78.9 7.79 7.91
23:00 06/30/2009 78.8 7.75 7.88
00:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.73 7.86
01:00 07/01/2009 79.1 7.69 7.83
02:00 07/01/2009 78.9 7.66 7.80
03:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.63 7.77
04:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.60 7.75
05:00 07/01/2009 79.3 7.58 7.73
06:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.56 7.71
07:00 07/01/2009 79.3 7.55 7.70
08:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.63 7.71
09:00 07/01/2009 78.9 7.72 7.75
10:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.78 7.79
11:00 07/01/2009 79.1 7.83 7.84
12:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.87 7.88
13:00 07/01/2009 78.9 7.90 7.92
14:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.93 7.95
15:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.95 7.97
16:00 07/01/2009 78.7 7.96 7.99
17:00 07/01/2009 79.1 7.97 8.01
18:00 07/01/2009 78.9 7.97 8.02
19:00 07/01/2009 78.7 7.95 8.02
20:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.92 8.00
21:00 07/01/2009 79.0 7.89 7.98
22:00 07/01/2009 79.2 7.86 7.96
23:00 07/01/2009 79.4 7.83 7.94
00:00 07/02/2009 79.0 7.80 7.92
01:00 07/02/2009 79.3 7.78 7.89
02:00 07/02/2009 79.1 7.75 7.87
03:00 07/02/2009 79.3 7.73 7.85
04:00 07/02/2009 78.9 7.71 7.83
05:00 07/02/2009 79.1 7.69 7.81
06:00 07/02/2009 79.3 7.67 7.79
07:00 07/02/2009 78.9 7.66 7.78
08:00 07/02/2009 79.0 7.70 7.77
09:00 07/02/2009 78.9 7.75 7.80
10:00 07/02/2009 79.1 7.80 7.83
11:00 07/02/2009 79.0 7.84 7.86
12:00 07/02/2009 78.9 7.88 7.90
13:00 07/02/2009 78.7 7.90 7.93
14:00 07/02/2009 78.8 7.91 7.95
15:00 07/02/2009 79.0 7.92 7.96
16:00 07/02/2009 78.9 7.92 7.97
17:00 07/02/2009 79.3 7.93 7.97
18:00 07/02/2009 79.4 7.93 7.98
19:00 07/02/2009 79.1 7.93 7.98
20:00 07/02/2009 79.0 7.89 7.98
21:00 07/02/2009 79.1 7.85 7.95
22:00 07/02/2009 79.3 7.81 7.93
23:00 07/02/2009 79.4 7.78 7.90
00:00 07/03/2009 79.0 7.76 7.87
01:00 07/03/2009 78.9 7.76 7.86
02:00 07/03/2009 79.0 7.78 7.86
03:00 07/03/2009 78.8 7.80 7.86
04:00 07/03/2009 79.0 7.81 7.87
05:00 07/03/2009 78.9 7.82 7.89
06:00 07/03/2009 79.2 7.83 7.90

bertoni
07/03/2009, 01:34 PM
Looks fine to me!

As long as the probes and the kits agree, I wouldn't worry too much.