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View Full Version : Can't get Nitrates down, off the charts


speedingredline
06/30/2009, 05:13 PM
I have a 240Gallon reef, well used to be a reef. 72x24x18 I think it is. We have a couple hundred pounds of live rock and a 2" Sand bed. The only livestock left is:
1 - Atlantic Blue Tang
2 - Blue Tangs
Pair of Maroon Clowns
1 - Sixline Wrasse
1 - Yellow Watchmen Goby w/ Pistol Shrimp
1 - Potter's Angel
1 - Fire Shrimp

Corals
3 - Sun Corals
1 - Huge Toadstool Leather
1 - Small Yellow Leather
1 - Tube Anenome

Tank has been up and running for 3 yrs., and instead of being beautiful, it looks like crap. I checked all water parameters and everything is good except for nitrates. They are off the chart, API test kit, and salifert test kit. I started doing 35 gallon water changes every 3 days, 3 water changes in so far.

I ordered 4 200 gallon boxes of instant ocean for water changes.

What am I do wrong or not doing. Should I be doing larger water changes? Smaller water changes? More often or not as often?

For returns I have 2 red dragon pumps with wavy seas attached. 2 vortech's, soon to be 4 to increase flow in the tank.

Please help:(

reeferoo
06/30/2009, 05:30 PM
I feel your pain.

Putting a fuge in is already making a difference for me.

Get rid of sponges if you can
Watch your filter socks if you have them
More flow/blow the crap out of your rock

Last resort- AZ-N03

mdrc
06/30/2009, 05:32 PM
do u use a wet dry?

speedingredline
06/30/2009, 05:55 PM
I have a lifereef lf1-300 system with a refugium. I don't have media socks in there. I have been actively blowing the rock work off. I may try the az-no3 right away.

75pxatr
06/30/2009, 05:56 PM
Tear out the sand bed. Sounds like old tank syndrome. Go bare bottom.

Same thing happened to me. I also added a DIY sulfur denitrator.

r-balljunkie
06/30/2009, 08:25 PM
get a denitrator. you can snag on an old calcium reactor and convert it. run sulfer media. will knock it down.

best thing i ever put on my tank.

tearing out the sandbed might cause more issues to arise...plus i am inherently lazy....good luck

Henry Bowman
06/30/2009, 08:29 PM
You can research Vodka Dosing. It IS effective at reducing the 'trates but you need to be aware of what you are doing when dosing.

sebrofjr
06/30/2009, 08:48 PM
Cheato refugium in addition to some of the other methods here will also help.

sanababit
07/01/2009, 12:01 AM
one word "denitrifier" and kiss your problem away, good luck

sana

speedingredline
07/01/2009, 12:11 AM
I have a DeNitrate Reactor, didn't work worth a darn. I am gonna remove some sand, I think I may have a little to much. I am also gonna continue with the water changes and maybe try the az-no3. I need to get some cheato for the refugium as well.

mdrc
07/01/2009, 12:21 AM
something is seriously wrong if you have an appropriately sized denitrafyer and there still off the charts thats something the would cnstitute a full system redo, and vodka dosing works great but as i learned today if your going to increase your dosage DO IT SLOWLY. good luck though

r-balljunkie
07/01/2009, 07:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15285768#post15285768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by speedingredline
I have a DeNitrate Reactor, didn't work worth a darn. I am gonna remove some sand, I think I may have a little to much. I am also gonna continue with the water changes and maybe try the az-no3. I need to get some cheato for the refugium as well.


what kind are your running, coil or sulfer?

coils are finicky, hard to get going sometimes.

c

gowingsgo
07/01/2009, 07:32 AM
I know this mite sound like a dumb question but are you running RO/DI water? I see you have been in the hobby for a long time so if you are running RO/DI you should check you water parameters coming from your system. I know that I personally had nitrates off the charts 2 years ago and when I checked my my source water it had 40ppm nitrates coming out. There was some type of flaw with my filter. so I had to order a new one. Also I added a Cheato refugium and you could literally watch the nitrates drop by the day.

K' Family Reef
07/01/2009, 07:44 AM
POLYPAD
will heal your woes away!
:thumbsup:

might research it
keep running it until it doesnt need to be replaced but every few mos... or at that point only use it as needed

regards

mikedelgado
07/01/2009, 08:49 AM
I had the same problem . My source water was full of nitrates, high largh fish load, and my sandbed was choked with poo. I removed all of the sand (evcept for a very thin layer in the front to cover the glass) redid my rockwork(uplifted rocks) and added pumps behind it so detritus falls to the sump now.( pumps on timer for 15 min a day).It took a few weeks but the nitrates fell like a rock. I had a midwest sulphur denitrator hooked up. It was working(0 nitrate effluent). It just could not keep up. The tank has never looked healthier. I still have detectable nitrates but its very low and everything looks great so I am not worried.If you do remove your sandbed have a HUGE, HUGE water change ready, my water looked like chocolate milk when I disturbed that sand, and stunk to high heaven. My tank inhabitants were very stressed because of it. I do miss the sand bed a little but I like my happy corals and ease of maintenence way better

1DeR9_3Hy
07/01/2009, 10:31 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15286491#post15286491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune's Oasis
POLYPAD
will heal your woes away!
:thumbsup:

might research it
keep running it until it doesnt need to be replaced but every few mos... or at that point only use it as needed

regards

Your talking about these right?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4335

They work amazing!

speedingredline
07/01/2009, 09:02 PM
I have a Korallin S1502 DeNitrator. I added some chaeto today to the refugium. I ordered some new media for the reactor today, so I will clean it up this weekend and get it running next week. I am gonna remove some sand, the wife doesnt like it on the front of the glass anyways. I am also gonna remove a few pieces of live rock. For what its worth my rock is marshall island and kalieni. I do stir the stand when I do water changes, fish and corals don't seem to mind. The few corals I have open like crazy after the sand is stirred up. Thanks for all the input.

dogstar74
07/01/2009, 09:43 PM
Make double dog sure you are not using windex to clean the glass or any windows in the room. The ammonia in the cleaner will drift into the tank, and it's much more resiliant to breakdown by bacteria than the natural waste type of ammonia.

Simplistic I know, but it could be your problem.

Aaron

speedingredline
07/01/2009, 09:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15291117#post15291117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dogstar74
Make double dog sure you are not using windex to clean the glass or any windows in the room. The ammonia in the cleaner will drift into the tank, and it's much more resiliant to breakdown by bacteria than the natural waste type of ammonia.

Simplistic I know, but it could be your problem.

Aaron

Definitely not the problem. My wife uses vinegar and water to clean the windows in the house. The tank is acrylic, so those cleaners go no where near the tank.

speedingredline
07/22/2009, 12:25 AM
Well I am 20 days into my attempt to get the nitrates down. Still off the charts, I set up my Korallin S1502 last week, and it is working, nitrate level in the reactor is lower than the tank. I picked up a second S1502 from a forum member. I got it up and running last night. I will adjust and test in a week on that one. I started using AZ-N03 a week or so ago. I ran a series of water tests and found that the Phosphates are off the charts also. Salifert kit show the level to be at a solid 3, eek. I have removing some sand, was about 2-2.5" inches deep. Last week I removed a 1 gallon buckets worth of sand. And I removed another 1 gallon bucket worth.

I have backed off the water changes at the moment. Seems like I have been wasting a lot of water. I will continue to use AZ-NO3 and PO4-Minus, until all reactors are fully functional.

To increase my flow in the tank I added 3 Vortech MP-40s. I have 3 on one side and one on the other run side. I opted to use reef crest mode for the time being.

Since phosphates are high I started using PO4-Minus. My skimmer has been producing some nasty stuff. I have to clean the collection cup once a week.

I am going to be ordering a GFO Reactor and media from bulk reef supply in the next day of two start combating the phosphate situation.

On further inspection of my tank, I figure the sand bed was around 3", in the areas that I can get to its down to about 1", but the areas behind the rock work is still 3". I am building a little blower to get into those areas and turn the sand over. I am also going to remove some LR in the future.

njdevilsfan
07/22/2009, 12:43 AM
if it were me over the next 2 months i would raise your sand bed to 6 inches
my probs went away when i did this
do it a bag evry 7 to 10 days
just my 2cents

NexDog
07/22/2009, 02:20 AM
GFO sucks. Blue Life Phosphate Control is your friend. Just add your dose and your phosphate is gone in a few days. I just knocked mine down from 2 to zero in 2 days.

As for nitrates, a denitrator really does do wonders. I have one and it keeps my nitrates down but not to zero. Salifert test registers around 2. It did take a LONG time for it to work so if you've tried one and it didn't work you didn't wait long enough (6 months for me).

I have macro algae in a fuge section in the sump. I feed a lot, I can stand nitrates around 2 though.

What I have done is add loads more LR to my display. I'm hoping the extra LR will provide even more denitrifying bacteria to keep nitrates down. I could add loads of sand to the fuge section of the sump but I'm not sure it's big enough for a DSB. I have a giant T. Squamosa and clams like nitrates apparently. :)

speedingredline
07/24/2009, 08:43 PM
A little update for anybody who is watching this thread. I have been dosing AZ-NO3 since 2 or 3 days are I started this thread, the skimmer has produced a lot of skimmate, but nitrates still haven't budged. However I tested phosphate today and it is almost zero. Well I think it is zero, but I am colorblind and can't read the cards, but it is not 3 anymore!

I have 2 Korallin BioDenitrators going, one is working good, effluent is at 0-10ppm, the other needs to be tested on Monday and adjusted. I need to do another water change, and turnover the sand behind my rock work.

Thanks for the tip on the product NexDog, I ordered it but I may not need it!

David - Miami
07/24/2009, 09:03 PM
What is AZ-NO3?

speedingredline
07/24/2009, 09:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15412254#post15412254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David - Miami
What is AZ-NO3?

Chemical Nitrate remover. supposed to work. I am being patient been through 1.75 bottles so far and no change.

David - Miami
07/24/2009, 09:07 PM
Where do you buy it? I am not familiar with it, but am having similar issues as you.

speedingredline
07/24/2009, 09:19 PM
MarineDepot has it. Here is the link.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=AZ_NO3_Nitrate_Eliminator_240mL_Nitrate_Phosphate_Eliminator_Additives&vendor=Captive_Purity&idProduct=CP2151&idCategory=FIADSAWE

speedingredline
07/28/2009, 11:44 PM
Did some tank maintenance and check my Nitrate and Phosphate levels. I think I am finally starting to make some progress. Phosphates test around .25 and Nitrates were between 50 and 100, salifert kit. I'm running two Nitrate Reactors and dosing AZ-NO3. Hopefully in a couple more weeks and a few water changes the tank levels will be normal for the first time in a long time.

speedingredline
08/05/2009, 10:26 PM
So yesterday I did about a 75 gallon water change, test Nitrates today, down to 20.
I am planning another 75-80 water change today. I am hoping for another drop in nitrates and phosphates.

gaucho30
08/05/2009, 10:42 PM
I noticed you said this is what is left of my livestock, did you maybe happen to leave some dead livestock in there? To be doing all that you are as far as combating nitrates there has to be some major root to this problem. I lost a blue tang and couldnt get to it in time and somehow never found the body. It sent my nitrates and phosphates through the roof for about a month

David - Miami
08/05/2009, 10:46 PM
At least you are seeing progress. Good luck with the problem.

speedingredline
08/05/2009, 10:47 PM
I have never found any bodies, my aquascape is such that if it died behind the rocks there is no way to get it. I have been blowing the rocks off with a powerhead every other day or so to try and prevent any settling. I also turn the sand over with the power head. Still no bodies? I am assuming the few crabs and shrimp are having a feast. I have been fighting the NO3/PO4 problem, for a lot longer than a month.

speedingredline
08/06/2009, 10:34 PM
Some progress finally. Two big water changes and nitrates went from 160 to 10-20ppm. I need to test phosphates again, but they should be close to zero now.

JuliusJames
08/07/2009, 12:23 AM
Phosphate reactor can help too. When my nitrate and phosphate were a little high, I got a phosphate reactor with phosban, carbon and chaeto, both dropped dramatically.

speedingredline
08/07/2009, 12:26 AM
I can't keep chaeto alive for some reason. I add it to my refugium and it just slowly vanishes.

David - Miami
08/07/2009, 05:43 AM
Usually if the chaeto vanishes, that means no nitrates. Are you sure your test kit is accurate? Has someone verified your nitrate number?