CO2 Degassing setup

[mg426]

Anyone ever build one of these? I have a Bigtime CO2 issue with my well water. Was interested in anyones experience or ideas.

[mg426]

Anyone ?????

[RicksReefs]

it just needs vigorous aeration to off gas the CO2 or you can make a degassing tower by putting the water in through the top of the tower and have it tumble over bioballs on the way down while having an airstone at the bottom of the tower to help push the CO2 from the tower/water.

[scottbeth]

I recently had an issue with excessive co2 (in the whole house), it was holding my pH at 7.93-8.13. I removed tank covers, vented my skimmers air intake outside, and ran a 5inch fresh air pipe directly into tank room. this adjusted the pH to 8.2-8.32 after only 2 days. I would start with venting your skimmer outside if possible and remove any tight covers.the fresh air may be unnecessary. add fans and point powerheads toward surface. hope this helps, it did for me.

[mg426]

I was looking at building something to degass the RO water before passing it through the DI stage. The excess CO2 is bad news for DI resin life.

[Buckeye Hydro]

The downside to any degassing set up is that you will need to add a pump to push the water through your DI. Not really a big deal, but in our experience sometimes more than folks want to mess with.

Russ @
Buckeye Field Supply

[Thefilterguys]

We have been working with something new with our customers. Instead of using a degassing chamber make RO water into a Rubbermaid Brute garbage can approx. 30 gallons or less at a time. Run an airstone in the can at full boil for about 8 hours them pass it through the DI using an Aqualifter pump 3.5 GPH. The process increases DI capacity by about 3 times after degassing the CO2.

Jim

[peterl23454]

Rise CHICKEN ��....

I'm setting up a de-gassing station.
Well water is under 100 tds, under 50 now but changes throughout the year. high in iron.
DI resin goes like crazy.
I wanted to use gravity and siphon to get the RO water from an elevated pickle barrel into the DI and out to 2 holding 44g brutes. But I don't have the height for that.

Id like a low flow 12v pump. ? And I'd use a 40psi switch for an aquatec pump I should be able to adjust down to 30 if I've done good research. This will feed a line to the fresh and salt mixing brutes. Both will have floats by then.
Aqualifter seems too weak according to another related post I've read.

Praying someone still has their ears on and can help with a recommendations? Another better option?

[peterl23454]

Or would I be better off to just redo everything and Degas before the RO then I could use the aquatec 8800? I already have.

[Buckeye Hydro]

Or would I be better off to just redo everything and Degas before the RO then I could use the aquatec 8800? I already have.

I like this idea, especially you you don't have iron or manganese in your water

[peterl23454]

Thank you for the reply.

Ive seen your posts and comments all over in regards to RODI. You are a guru.

I do have really high iron.
I have a whole home 10" pre-filter in the pump house with spun polyfilter element.
And then the water room is last on the run after the entire home. There are another 2 pre-filters before the RO unit.
Normally I do poly filter in them as well. Those barely get red like the one in the pump house

I'm going to do this. All I should need to buy is the parts (2 I think) to go from 1" fpt to 1/4" line.
Just got 2 more float switches in the mail today!

[Buckeye Hydro]

When you aerate the water, any iron in the water will come out of solution - so you should have a sediment filter before the pump to keep that crud out of the pump

[peterl23454]

When you aerate the water, any iron in the water will come out of solution - so you should have a sediment filter before the pump to keep that crud out of the pump


Thanks. Luckily I went overboard on filters.
I have a spin-down particle filter before the pump now which is useless because it's after the 2 pre-filters and the first 3 stages of the RO.

Thinking now I will do the spin-down filter >whole home filter> De-gas> pre-filter > 8800 pump> RODI it's a 3 stage with dual membrane and dual DI after.

Only thing I'm not sure of is how the pump will work now. Thinking of still raising the de-gas barrel as high as I can manage and putting the RODI below that then the pump should have no problem.

[peterl23454]

I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/171105/hazwmlqt.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Current setup
I'll post after I re-do all this.
This is all in a room I built on the porch. Need to add another wall and a door, currently only has 3 walls.
Going to insulate a little and throw a space heater in there to keep it around 40-50°

[rudiepk]

Peter you may be going to a lot of work for little or no benefit. If your system is working correctly your tds after RO should be in the 0-2 range without DI. Let me know if that is correct or your membrane is working poorly.

Jim

[peterl23454]

Peter you may be going to a lot of work for little or no benefit. If your system is working correctly your tds after RO should be in the 0-2 range without DI. Let me know if that is correct or your membrane is working poorly.

Jim

I'll get back to you soon. It was about 8 out of the RO. I got this unit secondhand and need to replace the membranes I'm sure. I ran the used resin which was still blue, until it reached 8tds out of DI. Added new resin that came with it in sealed bags. Blue went away after the first 30 gallons and only made 0tds for half that.

I'm working on this on and off. It's raining here and I've decided to finish the walls and add insulation so I can save some money heating this room in the coming months.
I'm waiting on a 3/8 float valve and t1-11 now
I'll post more when possible.
Thank you

[peterl23454]

Finally got around to hooking the unit back up.
Put some sheet foam insulation and 1/2" ply down for a floor. And removed the t1-11 and added insulation there as well. Still a bunch more to be done but the RODI system is running. Got a new hm digital triple TDS meter for the build.

Reading 89 in
5 out of membrane
3 out of mostly depleted DI resin

Are my membranes bad? Probably going to just replace everything at this point.

I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/171116/7rgyq8jv.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)
I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/171116/wt3iy46p.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)
I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/171116/ptlcy2zy.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171116/oeqvx97p.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

[peterl23454]

https://youtu.be/OjYpqdsKBE0

Video of the setup and operation

[Buckeye Hydro]

I wouldn't run that flow restrictor, no.

Test the water coming out of the first membrane and see what it is. Realize that the feedwater to the second membrane is not 89. Likewise, measure the TDS of the membrane 2 feedwater and the permeate coming out of membrane 2. These are the 4 numbers you'll need to calculate the rejection rate of the two membranes.

If you have a lot of iron and you're aerating that blue barrel, the iron will come out of solution in there and you'll need to clean it out. Might want to put a bulkhead in the bottom of that barrel so you can open it occasionally.

[peterl23454]

So get the feed water TDS and good water TDS from both membranes? Ill do this asap.
feedwater to the second should be much less then the 89 correct? It feeds the good or bad water from the first ?
What restrictor would you recommend?

[Buckeye Hydro]

With these low pressure/low flow residential membranes you should use a flow restrictor that gives you something around a 4 to 1.

Concentrate ("waste") water from first is feedwater to second.

[peterl23454]

Came across this on the BRS page for the 150 water saver upgrade.
I have just uploaded these images:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171116/69yywvk6.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Would I qualify as high TDS? Think it says the filmtecs are recommended for under 300. So I should be OK right?
Also their comments about a single membrane system maybe being better in some applications have peaked my interest.
You guys have any thoughts on that? Especially is regards to my application and burning up resin

[peterl23454]

Thanks. So I'll expect a much higher TDS into the second. Got it.

[peterl23454]

Would that mean the 2nd in-line shoukd be the first replaced? Would you recommend replacing both at the same time? Or replace the first and move the original membrane into the 2nd position? Or vice versa?

I know this probably a depends on my TDS readings I still need. Thanks for you help and patience.

[peterl23454]

Pretty sure I did that right.
1st membrane in 89 out 25
2nd in 84 out 26

Seems the exact same in and out of both
Maybe my handheld meter is off?
Reads the same as the 1st in-line TDS probe though.
If those numbers are right then how am i getting 5 after membrane with the 2nd probe?

I'll recheck tomorrow

[peterl23454]

Ok. So I broke down the system and ran the membranes seperately.
At 80psi and 72°F
I ran everything for a few minutes before testing. Handheld TDS meter is pretty much spot on with the in-line at lower TDS ie 2-3
At higher TDS of 93(inline) the handheld reads 95-99 so pretty close.

#1
In 93
Out 2-3
20 sec fill into 250ml graduated cylinder
Waste 224ml
Product 114ml
2:1 ratio @ 97% rejection rate

#2
In 93
Out 2-3
20 sec volume
Waste 220
Product 114
2:1 ratio @ 97%rejection rate

Ran through DI I get 93-3-1 from the triple in-line meter.

So they are spot on the same.
Should I even replace till I see like 95% rejection?

Running both in series I get
93 in
2-3 out
20sec volume test
Waste 208
Product 204
So...
1:1 ratio at the same 97% rejection

But when I run through the DI
The triple in-line shows 93-3-2

So seems to me the longer DI contact time associated with the 2:1 ratio gives me a 1 PCM drop in TDS. Could just be the meters sensitivity though.

Your thoughts?

[Buckeye Hydro]

Also pay attention in those spec's you posted: RECOVERY @ 15%. 15% is the same as a 5.5 to 1 ratio.

[peterl23454]

Also pay attention in those spec's you posted: RECOVERY @ 15%. 15% is the same as a 5.5 to 1 ratio.

Im sorry. I don't follow at all.
I'm sick and my head is kind of cloudy but that is totally lost on me.

Are you saying I have a 5.5:1 ratio overall?
With one membrane or both?

[Buckeye Hydro]

RO membranes are tested by the manufacturer under a specific set of standard conditions. Then the manufacturer tells the world, that given these conditions, you can expect "x"% rejection, and "y" gallons per day.

Filmtec's specific set of standardized test conditions are what the other vendor was paraphrasing in the post above:
50 psi
77 F feedwater
15% recovery (meaning about a 5.5 to 1 ratio of waste water to purified water)

People in the know use the jargon "recovery" rather than the "x to 1 ratio" you hear hobbyists use when describing how much concentrate ("waste water") a system produces.

In general, rejection will go down by a percent or two, as you crank up the recovery from the factory spec to 50% (1:1 ratio).

Russ

[peterl23454]

RO membranes are tested by the manufacturer under a specific set of standard conditions. Then the manufacturer tells the world, that given these conditions, you can expect "x"% rejection, and "y" gallons per day.

Filmtec's specific set of standardized test conditions are what the other vendor was paraphrasing in the post above:
50 psi
77 F feedwater
15% recovery (meaning about a 5.5 to 1 ratio of waste water to purified water)

People in the know use the jargon "recovery" rather than the "x to 1 ratio" you hear hobbyists use when describing how much concentrate ("waste water") a system produces.

In general, rejection will go down by a percent or two, as you crank up the recovery from the factory spec to 50% (1:1 ratio).

Russ

Ok got it.. I think ☺
At 80psi a slight reduction in the rejection rate is normal.

Guy said he had just replaced everything before I bought it. Seems to me these membranes are doing their job perfectly so no need to replace them.

Any recommendations on at what rejection rate I should replace these? 95%?

What about the restrictor? Any recommendations there, or would replacing it with a 800 or 1000 not net me any gains over the existing setup?

[Buckeye Hydro]

80 psi will not reduce the rejection - higher pressure = higher rejection, with diminishing returns above factory spec pressure.

When you replace the membranes is really a call you make.

Using a flow restrictor that gets you closer to a 5.5 to 1 will improve your rejection.

Russ

[peterl23454]

80 psi will not reduce the rejection - higher pressure = higher rejection, with diminishing returns above factory spec pressure.

When you replace the membranes is really a call you make.

Using a flow restrictor that gets you closer to a 5.5 to 1 will improve your rejection.

Russ

I want a larger restrictor then? Like 800? 1000?

A lot to learn here. Thanks buckeye hydro

[Buckeye Hydro]

Please call in at your convenience
Russ