Test Kits, Photometers, and Online Labs

[bag151]

Like most people I find that non titrimetric test kits to be lacking in color distinction to build confidence in the results I am getting, so I have been researching photometers. I am currently debating between the Hanna HI83202-2008 and the HI83200-2008. I would like to have a more analytical answer then, it's sorta blue. Anyone have one of these meters and what's the verdict? Is it worth it? I am considering the 3200 for the added Silica, Chlorine, Alk, and Calcium tests. The calcium test appears to not be applicable in our case because of interference with the high Mg levels.

Another option that I have been investigating is Mail order Lab tests.
www.labaquatics.com and http://aquariumwatertesting.com/ are the only ones I know of. Anyone use these services and what are your overall impression? Logic tells me that a lab with Chromatograph's is going to produce more accurate results then a home photometer, but a photo meter will last a long time and with 1,000's of test, when a lab will only give me 12 tests for the same price.

Last section, what test kits are people using and what kits produce reliable results? I currently have Salifert kit's, but I heard that they were having issues with their reagents and they aren't as reliable as they used to be. What about Lamott and Hach tests? I looked at the Hach digital titrator, but cost is pretty high for the reagents.

-Brett

[iFisch]

LA has a security issue my computer is picking up. And I have not heard back from them. I asked a question about 3 weeks ago.


I will be contacting AWT today.

[Billybeau1]

AWT is not the answer in my opinion.

bag, we obsess way too much in the results we get from hobby grade test kits.

A number of reefers have spent way too much money on these so called labs that guarantee perfect results.

This is not rocket science. If your tank looks good, it probably is. Consistency is the key in water chemistry for reef aquaria. I know a guy who hasn't tested his water in years and has a beautiful, thriving reef tank. His name is Randy Holmes-Farley.

You'd be surprised how much of a tolerance reef aquaria have to water. The key is consistency.

I personally would stick with the Saliferts you are using and chill. Especially if your tank looks good.

If you are concerned about your tank not looking as good as you want it to, post your concerns and we can help.

I have no problem trusting my Salifert results. :)

[iFisch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320489#post15320489 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
AWT is not the answer in my opinion.


Nope, but do you double check your test results? What if you get a number that you usually don't see. Wouldn't you retest?


Think of a lab as a second opinion. It is WAY to costly to use every week.

[Billybeau1]

Well, for me, I have about 6 or 7 different brand test kits due to my study of titration type test kits from last year. So it is pretty easy for me to figure out which is lying and which is dying. :lol:

Most reefers do not have that luxury so we usually recommend, if you get an unexpected result, to get another opinion. Either another kit or a friend or your lfs.

I just do not care for the way AWT did their testing. Now ENC is another story but it will cost you big bucks.

My point is I just do not feel this is necessary if a reefer watches his livestock and practices good husbandry.

In most cases, a good hobby grade test kit will keep your tank happy and healthy IMO. :)

[Mighty Quinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15320489#post15320489 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
This is not rocket science. If your tank looks good, it probably is. Consistency is the key in water chemistry for reef aquaria. I know a guy who hasn't tested his water in years and has a beautiful, thriving reef tank. His name is Randy Holmes-Farley.


Agreed, definitely not rocket science. BUT, I personally would love to be able to track the metal and halogen composition of my tank water over the long term. The basic tests (calcium, alk, nitrate, phosphate and magnesium) I can do myself with no problem, and have no need for an external lab. However, I would truly like to have a long term testing regimen with a monthly interval to keep track of the elements that are difficult to test for in the home.

I am a sucker for data!

Cheers,
TMQ

[MrPike]

I have owned a very expensive colorimeter. I have to say its not all its cracked up to be. Its still limited the same way a test kit is. It cannot test for different forms of phosphate, its nitrate test is interfered with by chloride; and a bunch of other inconvenient things that just make it expensive and not all that useful.

I would stick with hach test kits personally. Hobby kits are probably ok, im just cautious about using a test kit by a company that turns around and tries to sell you a solution.

[bertoni]

The alkalinity test with the colorimeter will require some recalibration, at least, to be accurate. A titration kit, such as the Elos, Salifert, or Hach, likely will be as accurate and precise. The calcium test won't work, as you stated, and I doubt the silica will, either. I don't see the value of a chlorine test, and it might not work either. The colorimeters are designed primarily for freshwater testing, and seawater is a very different animal.

The testing labs might have very accurate equipment, but unless they are using it properly, the results will be poor, and we've definitely seen cases of operator error. If you want accurate results, enclabs.com is supposed to be very good, but expensive.

The Hach test kits are very good. I've used the phosphate kit (not the digital one) and it seems a bit easier to use than the Salifert. The LaMotte kits are also good, in general.

[Boomer]

Brett

A GeoScientist :)

I think LabAquatics is the next best thing to ENC. They use "real" testing equipment , like ICP. They are subdivision of a giant Canadian analytical company.

The HACH Digital Titrator is a really nice unit. I had a whole set, 7 parameters for years and gave it to Randy awhile back.

What about Lamott and Hach tests?

Very good stuff, that we call "Lab-Grade" here. And there are others that most have never heard of.

Hanna HI 83200 and HI 83200-2008. Only if you want to test for Si, PO4, Fe , Cl, Cu. NOT Alk. No meter can do that as Alk is a titration method only. There will be other issues with other test in seawater, i.e., NO3, NO2 and some we do not know if they work right or not in seawater

I personally would love to be able to track the metal and halogen composition of my tank water over the long term

Halogens yes but they are as Halides in seawater, as Bromide and Chloride and this unit is testing for Bromine and Chlorine. And if you were running Ozone to track OPO's, like Bromine, then no as H2O2, Bromine, Chlorine and Ozone all test positive with the DPD Method, so that makes it almost useless.

I feel such toys are waste of money as they do not fare well in seawater but are great for FW as that is what they are designed for. Seawater is another BEAST :)

Jon

The alkalinity test with the colorimeter will require some recalibration

Smack yourself for saying that old friend. No such thing as a Alk Colorimeter by Titration only

[bertoni]

Good point! I didn't look up the kit in question. I think only Red Sea uses a color-based alkalinity test, and it's not very good.

[bag151]

Thanks for the input guys. I suppose the appeal of the colorimeter is it takes the guess work out of testing the basic parameters. I don't expect it to be much more precise or accurate then normal test kits, because you are using the same reagents.

The reason my interest in these kits was caused by the emergence of some green algae in my tank. I suspect it was caused by Phosphates being introduced through food. When I went to test using the Salifert test I could barely distinguish the color change so I started looking at Colorimeter's because of their ability to distinguish small color changes. I have read the manuals to a number of meters and test kits and they all have their short comings. I will most likely just replace my kits with Lamotte and Hach kits as the reagents expire, but monitoring the 4 basic parameters with a meter does have it's appeal.

Bertoni- I monitor the chlorine content post Carbon filter in my RO/DI filter so I know when it's time to swap out the filter and it helps extend the life of the RO membrane.

Boomer- I think the Digital Titrator is a good piece of equipment, but I don't think it's worth the investment for what you get. I really only find 2 of the test useful, so I will go with LaMotte Alk kit and something else for calcium(I don't want to have to dilute samples for the calcium test).

[Boomer]

2.......:eek1:

O2 ( best there is period), Salinity, Alkalinity, Acidity, TH w/ Ca++ and Mg++, Chloride, Chlorine, CO2 ( best there is period) for FW only. That's 9 :). If I throw 4 out, as Salinity is Chloride, CO2, Chlorine and Acidity, that is still 5, i.e., O2, Ca++, Mg++ , Allk and Salinity. If I ever bought one again it would only be for O2 and CO2 ( for playing in FW).

I don't want to have to dilute samples for the calcium test


There is a table in the owners manual for this. The only thing you change is the sample vol and the digit multiplier for the range you want. You have to do the same with the LaMotte or HACH non-digital kits.

IMHO I would just go with a hobby kit like a Salifert, Elos or API. I would never go with a expensive kit again, like the HACH digital Titrator, unless one wants the best and most accurate, which you really do not need but some just want. Corals or other marine life can't grow faster by having Ca++ much higher than 360 or so. So begin somewhere between 400 - 450 is all one needs to look at. And Mg++ 1275ppm - 1350ppm. Then keep them at the parameter you have chosen, the kit will be close enough. Rocket science levels do nothing, just a somewhat steady range. Reefs/ocean have the same i.e values fluctuated.

I suppose the appeal of the colorimeter

The only thing we use one of these for is PO4 and quite a few use them rather than a kit. Hanna, LaMotte, and HACH have one that tests to ~0.02 ppm PO4 on the LR Spectrophotometer #Colorimeter).




Jon


Yes Jon, that RS kit sucks the big one.

[luther1200]

I find myself thinking the same way as the OP sometimes. I know my tank looks good usually and the tests come out good. But sometimes you just want to double check yourself. I usually get on a kick where I am going to do something, but I never do lol.

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15326406#post15326406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luther1200
I find myself thinking the same way as the OP sometimes. I know my tank looks good usually and the tests come out good. But sometimes you just want to double check yourself. I usually get on a kick where I am going to do something, but I never do lol.

And for that, you have probably saved a ton of green. :D