New fish die

[HotHotHot]

Hi All,

Anyone have ideas on what I should be looking for/at to keep new fish from dieing?

My tank is established since 2007 and has 4 tangs and 2 clowns. It's had its share of ups and downs, but is pretty stable now. I have SPS and they are healthy and growing, although mostly browned out.

I added several anthias which lasted about 2-3 weeks. There *was* some clown aggression, so maybe that stressed them all enough.

Added a sixline wrasse last Friday and he didn't make it through Sunday. None of the fish seemed to bother him.

The LFS I use is very good and QTs and acclimates for at least 2 weeks.

I drip acclimate for about an hour.

The existing fish are happy and healthy.

RODI
Salinity: 35ppt
pH: 7.8 - 8.0
Ca: around 450
Alk: around 10dkh
Mg: around 1400
nitrate: 10-25
po4: under .1


Any ideas?
TIA

[darkdruid]

Your ph is a little low, I keep mine at 8.1 to 8.4. And a one hour acclimation is too long and too stressful IMO.

[jayk198030]

that sucks about the new fish... but you should try to QT all new fish to make sure they are eating and are healthy.. i try to do that for 4 weeks.. then i can make sure their are no parasites on the fish and its going to live and not effect other fish.

Also the clowns can make hell for other and new fish

And 10G QT only cost for tank, filter, and light for $50-$60

well worth the money!!

[tmz]

It's possible you have a disease in your tank.
For example , if you have had ich in your tank, surviving fish will develop partial resistance. The parasites, however, will persist indefinitely, hosting unseen in the nose mouth a gills unless the tank is left fishless for at least 6 weeks and all the fish in it are effectively treated . When a new fish is introduced , it has no resistance to the strain of parasite in your tank and is attacked.

[sedor]

I was using a particular LFS a while back and almost got out of the hobby because all of my fish kept dying as soon as i'd put them in my tank. I changed stores and all of a sudden i'm successful again. I did some reading and found that a lot of retail stores, especially the cheaper ones are purchasing their fish from wholesalers who use cyanide to capture the fish by basically poisoning the water and then just collecting all of the sleeping fish. Its a lot simpler to capture the animals this way and therefore they can sell to retail stores for half the price. Unfortunately, not only is this cruel to the animals, it inevitably will kill the animal, usually pretty quickly, especially with the stress of shipping and acclimating.

Just something to look into.

[OwenInAZ]

Where do you get your fish? I get all of mine at Aquatouch, never had a single problem with their livestock -- they definitely quarantine for at least two weeks before you even know the fish exists. Aside from that, your paramaters seem OK (pH is a little low, but so is mine this time of year with the house shut up and AC blasting). Lots of people acclimate for short times, lots for long times, so that might not be the reason.

About the only idea I can think of is the disease theory. Not sure how to fix that, though.

[sedor]

One more thing, out of curiosity because I have had fish with what seemed like ich die off before, and have never left my tank running empty for weeks.

When a new fish is introduced , it has no resistance to the strain of parasite in your tank and is attacked.

Would you see the parasite form before the fish died?

[OwenInAZ]

You probably would, the ich you see is the parasite breaking the skin of your fish.

[kryppy]

I hate to say it, but this is the most accurate statement and subject title I have ever seen on Reef Central!

I have handled literally tons of fish from every ocean, and the sad fact is new fish die.

If you mix fish from different oceans, hell, fish from the same ocean but separated by a few hundred miles you best get to know formalin, nitrofurazone, UV, ozone, fresh water and a whole arsenal of weapons to keep them all alive together.


A good analogy is when the Calusa Indians met the Spanish and started dropping like flies here in Florida from sickness that didn't even affect the Europeans. By keeping a completely sterile holding system I have very good luck with a very wide variety of species HEAVILY packed in 400 gallons of water.

LOL, fish only with no live rock. Vacuum the bare bottom every day, do a 40% water change every day and redose the mentioned meds and you will hardly ever find a dead fish...

I wish I could tell you how they do in the long term, but unfortunately you are talking about this and it doesn't sound that good. Who knows what that fish went through to get to you.

You really don't want to know.

Good luck and be happy when they live.

[kryppy]

Another thing, the water is very warm now. The very worst diseases LOVE warm water. Guess where the guys who pack the fish in third world places..haha, even American based places get the water?

Two weeks in holding is the bare minimum for fish from the ocean to even be considered 50% likely to live over a month IMO, and I doubt any wholesaler does it unless they can not find someone to buy the fish.

In all honesty, the closer to the fishes capture, the better off you are if you treat it properly. They are strongest at this time.

[tmz]

If it hasn't been said clearly yet. Quarantine and treatment of new fish can keep most alive and your tank disease free.

[HotHotHot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15361256#post15361256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OwenInAZ
Where do you get your fish? I get all of mine at Aquatouch, never had a single problem with their livestock -- they definitely quarantine for at least two weeks before you even know the fish exists.

First of all, thanks to all of you for your replies. I knew if I asked a question it'd bring the whole site down. :D

Owen, I didn't want to mention their name, but same store. I trust their advice and livestock. I've got 6 fish that are 8 years old from them.

I spoke with them on Tuesday and they suggested I might have a preditor in the tank. It may have finally reached maturity and is hungry enough to kill small fish.

That was the only thing I didn't think of. The telling sign for them was that there's never a carcass. No floaters or sinkers. I am *positive* I still have a fire worm or 2 in the tank so I'll see what I can bait and catch. They also suggested it might be a rock crab. I have heard clicking from time-to-time. dunno.

After I go a'hunting for this beastie (this weekend) I will consider all of your other replies. I haven't seen any signs of disease on any of the fish, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something.

I'll update this thread after an all nighter (sigh) this weekend. This hobby just keeps giving and giving. :rolleye1:

Thanks again,
Ed

[tmz]

Clicking could be a mantis shrimp which will take small sleeping fish.