Something New--Boxfish. Tips are welcome.

[flameangel88]

Just received this pair on Wednesday from LA and so far they've acclimated well. Any suggestions on their care requirements are welcome.

Here's the picture of the Solomon Islands pair posted by LA
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/SolomonIslandsBlueBoxfishpair3to5in.jpg

24 hours later in their new environment
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_7579.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7588.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7617.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7573.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7615-1.jpg

[barbianj]

I would say that the DD pictures are fairly representative of the actual fish, would you? Their lights may have been brighter, but your pictures look just as good, IMO. I can't help you on the care, but they look very nice!

What tank are they in, and do they have any tank mates?

[kirkaz]

Sweet fish...Copy and pasted this from my buddy Mark Martin whom owns Blue Zoo Aquatics....Good luck, sorry for the gloom, just some caution.

"The most notorious fish for releasing toxins into the aquarium, the Spotted Boxfish should only be attempted by experienced aquarists with well established aquariums. Sudden movement, sound or bright lights can easily stress the Boxfish which can cause it to secrete a toxin that will wipe out your fish population. If you notice that your boxfish is stressed or has died in your aquarium, it is recommended you immediately remove it from the aquarium and place it in a quarantine system as the toxins released in the display will not be removeable. We recommend to add carbon for at least 24 hours."

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15373863#post15373863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barbianj
I would say that the DD pictures are fairly representative of the actual fish, would you? Their lights may have been brighter, but your pictures look just as good, IMO. I can't help you on the care, but they look very nice!

What tank are they in, and do they have any tank mates?

Thanks. Yes, the DD picture is very good representation of their color. They are in with a couple of fish that I hope the new pair will learn to eat by following the others. They will be going into a 125g once I feel they're comfortable and settled in. So far they are very calm and swims around the tank.

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15373896#post15373896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kirkaz
Sweet fish...Copy and pasted this from my buddy Mark Martin whom owns Blue Zoo Aquatics....Good luck, sorry for the gloom, just some caution.

"The most notorious fish for releasing toxins into the aquarium, the Spotted Boxfish should only be attempted by experienced aquarists with well established aquariums. Sudden movement, sound or bright lights can easily stress the Boxfish which can cause it to secrete a toxin that will wipe out your fish population. If you notice that your boxfish is stressed or has died in your aquarium, it is recommended you immediately remove it from the aquarium and place it in a quarantine system as the toxins released in the display will not be removeable. We recommend to add carbon for at least 24 hours."

Thanks. Yes, I read that as well. They acclimated very well and been very calm since Wednesday and I been trying not to cause any sudden movement or bright lights shinning into the tank. I've plenty of mixed SW and carbons ready. This is totally a new area I'm venturing into so I'll take all the necessary steps not to stress them.

[stuccodude]

i read that farm raised boxfish that dont have there natural diet won't have any toxin in there system to release.

[JHemdal]

Farm raised boxfish? Who is working with those? - I hadn't heard of that.

IMO - the toxicity of most boxfish (or their tendancy to release it?) leaves after a month or so in captivity. The only time I've actually seen toxicity first-hand was with newly collected boxfish.

The only boxfish that I'll work with anymore are the temperate Australian species. I've long since given up on trying to keep the tropical ones. They usually do well at first but I've never been able to keep one longer than 18 months, most die sooner than that. It is never any single problem, just this or that, but the result is the same, they die sooner than I think they ought to.
Years ago, I took a straw poll, and found that many other people had the same issues. In fact, they made my "list" of fish that rarely survive past the year mark in captivity...

Jay

[jrobison]

I have had the same experience as Jay, I have bought 2 males and a female from DD over the past few months and all come in good and eat well and get along with others but after a couple of months something happens. Not sure what is going on haven't lost any other fish and these seem to be great one day and dead the next. I haven't had any problem with toxins though. Good Luck with yours.

[Sitarangi]

How reef safe are box/cowfish? I heard somewhere that they like to file their teeth on rocks and corals. Are they invert safe?

[Recty]

Great looking fish :) I have no personal experience with them, other than diving with them in Hawaii, but I hope it works out well for you!

[fish stalker]

Good luck with these guys. Great pics! The closest i have come to these is keeping a long horn cow fish and so far so good. I know they have similar issues so I have mine with a marine betta, red lip blenny, very placid black & white false perc and a valentini plus various inverts. It would be interesting to see if they get as interactive as i have found the cow fish to be, keep us posted.

[flameangel88]

Thanks for all the interesting info and I'll post updates on the pair for sure. That's very sad to hear of the sudden death to them with unknown cause. I hope more boxfish owners chime in here with their experiences. Just curious if they fare better in a reef environment?

On a good note--they just started to eat frozen clams (soaked with Selcon and garlic) more aggressively tonight.

[LuvAngels88]

That is good news, Kevin. I hope they continue to do well for you!

[flameangel88]

Thanks Susan!

[AquaticMadness]

They are different but definately cool looking fish.

[Torno]

Great looking boxfish indeed! that is one of my favorite species too. :]
im going on week 3 with my ostracion solorensis
so far so good. good luck with yours!

[flameangel88]

Thanks for all the replies!

I'm happy to say that the male is eating small amount of freeze dried mysis soaked in Selcon & garlic and the female just started eating NLS Thera+A pellets. :)

Last night just before bedtime the female nipped the male on the back and the male flinched and the second time he chased her away. Then she when to nipped on the large female Maroon Clown and she chased her away as well.

[Umbriel]

Flameangel88, the male is stunningly beautiful and the female is really cute. I've always been very curious about boxfish, and would like to own one or two someday, so I'll be tracking your progress.

I'm very curious with boxfish success in captivity, and I hope that yours lasts. I know LisaD has had her female o. solorensis for quite some time now, but I'm not sure how long. Hopefully she'll chime in.

I wonder if your main tank will be peaceful enough for the pair. I suppose I'll have to wait and see. Keep us posted! :D

[flameangel88]

Thanks Umbriel. Only time will tell and I'll update. I was hoping LisaD would chime in but I haven't seen her on the board lately.

[LuvAngels88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15381044#post15381044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
Last night just before bedtime the female nipped the male on the back and the male flinched and the second time he chased her away. Then she when to nipped on the large female Maroon Clown and she chased her away as well.

Bold little girl you've got there! :lol: Just like my Crosshatch pair, the female is always picking on the male. No worries, as long as there's no harm done. Good job on getting them to accept pellets!

[flameangel88]

Susan,

I'm surprised how aggressive my female Crosshatch trig is toward another female. What's the size difference between your trigs? The poor guys just gets beat up constantly. :lol: I'm not sure why but same thing happens with my Watanabe and Flame angels after their nightly ritual the female chases the male around for a bit.

kevin

[Jocephus]

In fact, they made my "list" of fish that rarely survive past the year mark in captivity...

Jay

Jay, is that list online somewhere, or in a book? I am considering a longhorn cowfish.

[LuvAngels88]

Kevin, my Crosshatch female is a little bit larger than the male. Interesting that the same happens with your angels. Poor guys--I always thought the males were the aggressive ones.

[JHemdal]

Jocephus,

It's from my "Advanced marine Aquarium Techniques" book - here is the list:

Centropyge (Paracentropyge) boylei Peppermint angelfish
Centropyge (Paracentropyge) multifasciatus Many banded angelfish
Chaetodon citrinellus Citron butterflyfish
C. lavartus Masked butterflyfish
C. reticulatus Reticulated butterflyfish
Doryrhamphus sp. Banded pipefish
Holocanthus tricolor Rock beauty angelfish
Gorgasia preclara Gold-banded garden eel
Ostracion sp. Boxfish
Oxymonacanthus longirostris Orange-spot filefish
Platax pinnatus Red-rimmed batfish
Pseudanthias tuka Tuka anthias
Pygoplites diacanthus Regal angelfish (Except Red Sea)
Rhinomuraena quaesita Ribbon eel
Scarus sp. Parrotfish (Sparisoma are hardier)
Zanclus canescens Moorish idol


Note - there is also a list of fish that NEVER survive past a year, plus a list of "problem" inverts.

Jay

[Jocephus]

Thanks Jay, I sent you a PM.

[flameangel88]

So far the male prefer feeding in mid-water column and the female prefer lower and likes NLS pellet over frozen.

Couple of new pictures
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7679.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7714.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7707.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7709.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7710.jpg

Does the male look a bit on the skinny side to you?
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7713.jpg

[FishyMel]

I've always been intrigued by the bluespotted boxfish. I bought one earlier this year from diver's den but the shipment was canceled supposedly due to a 2 mm rip in the tail. They said it would take 3 weeks for the tail to heal and then they'd contact me to rearrange. 3 monthes later they sent me pics of three different bluespotted boxes. When asked what happened to the one I ordered originally they evaded the question... To this day I've only seen 1 of the boxes they showed me go on dd and I'm an avid dd watcher. I believe the turnover rate on these is phenomenal even for pros like liveaquaria dd and like their stingray counterpart, the bluespotted ribbontail, is a beautiful animal best left in the wild. I am even surprised the boxes arrived successfully. My lfs says frequently they come in poisoned in the bag. I guess that is good for you though because their odds of releasing toxin are less considering how many times they've been shipped successfully. I personally have kept the longhorn cow. He lived about 18 monthes before dying of bouyancy problems. :/

[flameangel88]

FishyMel,

I share your pain and frustration on that order you placed as I just reread that thread you posted on DD. Back on Jan 16th I was ordering a Bandit angel with another vendor and every week I checked the Bandit was not 100% and after 2 months of checking I gave up and ordered elsewhere. In my case the overall cost was 4X more because I kept getting specimen that appeared to have decompression issues and it only comes with live guarantee. In my opinion/experiences it's better to wait for a healthy specimen from a reputable vendor then to rush into getting one.

Couple of months back I regret letting a Ostracion whitleyi pair slip through so I didn't hesitate and jump right away when I saw this pair on DD. I was so stressed out when Fedex didn't deliver on time and I was very nervous. When I open the bag at almost 7:30pm they looked so calm and alert and I felt very comfortable with them after drip acclimating them for 1.5 hour.

I agree that there are certain fish that we should leave in the ocean and I feel bad when I lose a fish while under my care. I'm on my 4th try with Regal angels, one time it was DOA and the other two times the fish was dead on day 3 and 4 (one with a mouth infection and not sure about the other one). I'm in no way proud of this record but I've seen beautiful specimens that eat well and I wanted one and felt I was ready to care for them. I've a pair of Regals and a pair of Potters since June 13th that's been eating small pieces of frozen and NLS pellets and hopefully they will continue to do well. However, I will stay away from Colini and Venustus as I don't feel I've a system that can handle them today but hope someday I will.

btw--did your Longhorn feed from the water surface? I read the bouyancy problem may be a result of that and I've been feeding food that sinks right away.

[FishyMel]

My longhorn didn't eat at the surface. Before even getting him I was aware that he needed to be fed low in the tank and be fed algae and greens to avoid bouyany issues. I am not quite sure what caused it. He did like to shoot water out of the tank though which I guess could of created a siphon to suck in air. I was very precautious but it still happened. I wasn't trying to alarm you with my pessimistic post I just wanted you to have another reference. I hope the best out of your boxes! If they do well I may try to get a pair myself. There is very little research and experience with these. It would be nice to know someone with first hand experience. They are definitely looking very good right now! Good luck and keep us posted!

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15395010#post15395010 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
I wasn't trying to alarm you with my pessimistic post I just wanted you to have another reference. I hope the best out of your boxes! If they do well I may try to get a pair myself. There is very little research and experience with these. It would be nice to know someone with first hand experience. They are definitely looking very good right now! Good luck and keep us posted!

Not one bit and I was very appreciative when I read your post. With today's age of information technology it's still so difficult to find info on boxfish therefore any little bit is helpful. I'm aware of their track record and will continue to upgrade this thread. :)

[Umbriel]

I'd still like to hear LisaD's opinion on the matter. I don't know how long she's had her female o. solorensis, but I'm tempted to say she's had it for at least a year or so. Perhaps hers is just an odd case, though? I hope she returns soon.

On a positive note: look at the teeth on the male! I've never seen boxfish teeth before, and it surprised me...like a niger trigger's teeth.

Beautiful pictures again, flameangel88. Thanks for the update.

[JHemdal]

Just for grins, I looked up my historic data - over the past 20 years, I've had 10 tropical boxfish/cowfish (3 genera). Longevity for these ran from 1 month to 17 months, average was 5 months. During the same period, I've had 8 Australian temperate boxfish (Shaws and whitebarred) the longevity ranged from 1 year to 6 years 1 month, with two fish still alive (so I can't calculate an average for them).

So - the interesting thing is that all of the tropical boxes made it past 30 days - we all know that there is often a high mortality rate for newly acquired fish - yet they all survived that critical period. Why then, did they all drop off before the two year mark? I sure don't know, but that's the reason I only acquire the Australian temperate species now....

One thing may be at the "root" of these unexpected losses - their bony body plates make it virtually impossible to judge body condition. If you have a tang that is wasting away, you are not suprised when it eventually dies. A boxfish on the other hand, will not lose visible condition, and could have food malabsorbtion problems and you'd never know it....until it dies. I'm not saying that these tropical boxfish are starving to death, just that they tend to look good right up to the point where they die - or even past that point, I had one boxfish jump out and it balanced right on the edge of the tank - and expired. It still looked good though!

I need to add the caveat that for the most part, the tropical boxfish were acquired earlier in the 20 year span, and the temperature Australian species mostly from 10 years ago until now. So - there MAY be an underlying improvement in the husbandry offered the fish that may cause this difference in perceived hardiness to become a bit wider.

Jay

[FishyMel]

As a side note to what JHemdal said, make sure to feed the boxes several times a day in smaller portions opposed to one big feeding. In my experience they are very similar to seahorses in that regard. It is very difficult from their body structure to tell how hungry they are and frequently when they die for almost no apparent reason I believe it to be from a very slow starvation.

Jay, do you own any white barred boxfish? They are my favorite temperate water box and I'd like to try one someday if they are hardy. Sorry for the thread hijack.

[flameangel88]

Jay & Mel,

You bought up a very good point with their body plate it's very difficult to tel how they really are. I do noticed that the male has learned very quickly that when I'm near the tank that means there will be food. The male doesn't eat a whole lot during each feeding therefore will require more frequent feedings. the female has liken pellets more than frozen so it's much easier to feed.

When I feel more comfortable on keeping this pair I would like to get a pair of Whitley.

edit: let me add that--it will be a long while before I know for sure how this pair is going to be.

[FishyMel]

The whitley's are supposedly very hardy (as far as hardy goes for boxes anyway) and would make a great addition if the meleagris work out. If you read wetwebmedia I believe Bob Fenner claims them to be the hardiest tropical box. Definitely read wetwebmedia.

[flameangel88]

Thanks for mentioning wetwebmedia again. That's where I initially found all the info early on but somehow forgetting it.

[macboat]

Any update?

[flameangel88]

They are doing well and both are eating pellets now. The female loves it.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7747.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7753.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7756.jpg

[JHemdal]

flameangel,

Sorry to be such a buzz-kill here, but are you at all worried about what looks like petechia (red spots) inside the male's mouth? He's eating, but is he taking enough in? I worry that maybe he mashed his mouth during shipping or something - I don't recall ever seeing red spots like that in the mouth of a boxfish before....but then its prolly been a decade or so since I dealt with a tropical boxfish...

Jay

[flameangel88]

Jay,

Thanks for the observation and I greatly appreciated. Last Winter when someone said the Grifis had a pink spot on a picture I posted that I actually overlooked and sure enough there was a problem and I'm positive you chimed in on that thread.

I took it for granted the teeth was fine because everyone of them appeared the same. Glad I took enough pictures the 2nd day the fish was in and here's a picture of the female (not as clear but appeared the same as the male's set of teeth color).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7590.jpg

I can imagine the male getting the mouth smashed during shipping but not the female because it was a huge bag that it was packed in. I'm certainly not saying it can't happen because we know anything is possible.

I'll check with LiveAquaria Monday to see if the mouth looks normal to them. I haven't seen any pictures of a boxfish's mouth so I really don't have anything to compare with.

Can anyone else here chime in?

TIA!

Kevin

edit--as to eating: I feed frozen and pellets twice a day (4 meals) and now both are eating pellets life is a bit easier for me. I think they eat enough specially on the pellets.

[flameangel88]

Two more pictures of the female.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7684.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7687.jpg

[KingDiamond]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15396595#post15396595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal
Just for grins, I looked up my historic data - over the past 20 years, I've had 10 tropical boxfish/cowfish (3 genera). Longevity for these ran from 1 month to 17 months, average was 5 months. During the same period, I've had 8 Australian temperate boxfish (Shaws and whitebarred) the longevity ranged from 1 year to 6 years 1 month, with two fish still alive (so I can't calculate an average for them).

So - the interesting thing is that all of the tropical boxes made it past 30 days - we all know that there is often a high mortality rate for newly acquired fish - yet they all survived that critical period. Why then, did they all drop off before the two year mark? I sure don't know, but that's the reason I only acquire the Australian temperate species now....

One thing may be at the "root" of these unexpected losses - their bony body plates make it virtually impossible to judge body condition. If you have a tang that is wasting away, you are not suprised when it eventually dies. A boxfish on the other hand, will not lose visible condition, and could have food malabsorbtion problems and you'd never know it....until it dies. I'm not saying that these tropical boxfish are starving to death, just that they tend to look good right up to the point where they die - or even past that point, I had one boxfish jump out and it balanced right on the edge of the tank - and expired. It still looked good though!

I need to add the caveat that for the most part, the tropical boxfish were acquired earlier in the 20 year span, and the temperature Australian species mostly from 10 years ago until now. So - there MAY be an underlying improvement in the husbandry offered the fish that may cause this difference in perceived hardiness to become a bit wider.

Jay

Damn right, there is a improvement in husbandry! Sorry, I couldnn't resist!

[flameangel88]

I posted the question on LA sponsor forum this morning and the reply (I swear they don't sleep) is as follow:

"Thank you for updating us on how the acclimation of your new pair of boxfish is going. We are happy to hear that they are both accepting the pellet foods being offered. It sounds like they are happy in their new home. Ostracion meleagris have close set, conical shaped teeth that may vary in color between yellow to brown. We believe that the mouths of your Boxfish are normal."

I would like to hear from other boxfish owners if their boxfish is similar and a picture would be super nice.

link to LA post (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15418269#post15418269)

[JHemdal]

flameangel,

In looking at the pictures again, the teeth are more brownish than red. The third picture down from the top is the one that caused me to broach that as an idea....but the female has really tiny brownish teeth as well...so I don't think that this is abnormal after all...cowfish are just so prone to chronic mouth injuries.


Jay

P.S. - and KD...since husbandry has improved SO much over the years, I'm sure you'll have no trouble taking care of all those larva today - I better have something to see tomorrow (grin).

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15418327#post15418327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal

P.S. - and KD...since husbandry has improved SO much over the years, I'm sure you'll have no trouble taking care of all those larva today - I better have something to see tomorrow (grin).

lol

I must say all the pictures look red to me and they are more clear from the original jpeg.

Someone out there must have pictures of their boxfish's teeth?

[jrobison]

All of my boxfish have had teeth that look the same. I don't think you have a problem.

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15420175#post15420175 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jrobison
All of my boxfish have had teeth that look the same. I don't think you have a problem.

Thanks for the info and it's comforting to know they look the same. How long have you had your boxfish and what do you feed them?

[jrobison]

well i have never been able to keep one past 3-4 months, they always seem to eat great but die of no apparent reason. Maybe they do need lots of food and slowly starve, hard to tell. Good Luck with yours.

[macboat]

flameangel, how often do you feed yours now?

[flameangel88]

jrobison: Thanks.


macboat: I feed pellets twice a day and frozen twice a day. Pellets consist of NLS Marine Formula, Thera+A, Formula One & Two. Frozen is on a rotation mix of Marine Cusine, Emerald Entree, Angel & Butterfly Diet, Mysis, PE Mysis, Clam, Bloodworm. Live Clam twice a week.

[macboat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15426245#post15426245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
jrobison: Thanks.


macboat: I feed pellets twice a day and frozen twice a day. Pellets consist of NLS Marine Formula, Thera+A, Formula One & Two. Frozen is on a rotation mix of Marine Cusine, Emerald Entree, Angel & Butterfly Diet, Mysis, PE Mysis, Clam, Bloodworm. Live Clam twice a week.

Thanks for the answer! Keep us posted man. I really hope these pair can be long lived~~ :D

[flameangel88]

It's been exactly 4 weeks and both are doing well. The only thing is the male seem to be a bit more skinny while the female gained. The male is more picky while the female eats pretty much everything from frozen to pellets. The female also likes live clam more than the male not sure why.

Couple of pictures from earlier
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7820.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7787.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7789.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7797.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7783.jpg

[macboat]

Looking good! Keep up the good work. I hope the male will eventually buff up!

[LuvAngels88]

Glad they are adjusting and fattening up a bit. Looks great! Thanks for the update!

[flameangel88]

I added 2 Ostracion Solorensis this week and so far so good. Both are bet 1.75-2" and one of them already nipping on pellets. I see them constantly picking on rocks and glass so I know they are eating through out the day.

Couple of pictures
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7874.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7857.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7849.jpg

From the same order I got a 1.5-2" Blue Spotted angel which is also nipping on rocks
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7843.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7867.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7869.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7870.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/New%20Addition/IMG_7863.jpg

I'll work on getting better pictures once they settled in.

[LuvAngels88]

Looks good, Kevin! I've never seen a Bluespot that small before. Cute! :)

[Recty]

Not bad at all :) I've never much cared for boxfish but I like your pair, or make that pairS now.

I guess you dont QT your fish, eh? I never used to either.

I really like the little angel, cute little girl.

[FishyMel]

Looking very nice! Are your solorensis the ones from Diver's Den? I think that blue one is a girl taking shape into a boy. I'm guessing you were thinking the same.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/TetraodontiformPIX/PufferPIX/Boxfishes/Ostracion%20solorensis%20SIP.JPG

[flameangel88]

Susan: thanks.

Recty: Never QT till this year after velvet hit which came so fast and took quick response and some 3 months to save most of the fish but that will be another thread.

As for the boxfish and juv Blue Spotted angel I felt it was important for them to be in a established tank that I don't need to feed every 2 hours due to their size. The tank was setup in 2005 and been dosed with countless bags of pods and I felt comfortable without the worry about feeding so much.

I never had fish this small before and they are really like little babies. Good thing I can sleep though the night w/o waking up to feed. :lol:

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15581932#post15581932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
Looking very nice! Are your solorensis the ones from Diver's Den? I think that blue one is a girl taking shape into a boy. I'm guessing you were thinking the same.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/TetraodontiformPIX/PufferPIX/Boxfishes/Ostracion%20solorensis%20SIP.JPG

No, I got them from Bluezoo. The bigger one has a bit of blue but given that it's only about 2" I don't know if they change this early.

[flameangel88]

Recty:

btw--that's the Japanese Fairy Basslet in the last picture right next to the Blue Spotted angel you asked me to tell you 2 months ago if it lives after a month. At that time I think you was looking to get a harem and I only bought one because I wanted to see how they are before buying 4 or 5.

[Cracken]

Can we see a FTS?

[flameangel88]

Nothing fancy about the tanks they are in right now but a FTS will come under another thread in due time. These are all the pictures for the moment and I'll keep the updates coming with the boxfish.

If anyone have experience or pictures of boxfish please feel free to share here!

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15582020#post15582020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
Recty:

btw--that's the Japanese Fairy Basslet in the last picture right next to the Blue Spotted angel you asked me to tell you 2 months ago if it lives after a month. At that time I think you was looking to get a harem and I only bought one because I wanted to see how they are before buying 4 or 5. Oh sweet, I forgot about that. Yeah, I ended up going with the flame angel harem instead, but good to hear that basslet is still alive for you. I debate back and forth about adding a couple anthias to my system but I think I'd pretty much be ruining the peace I have going, even though anthias are calm, relatively less aggressive fish when compared to most I have.

[flameangel88]

Bad news first--the Scribbled Boxfish pair didn't make it and this is very sad especially they looked so promising.

Now the good news--the Blue boxfish pair is doing very well. The male's armor still appeared to be concave but he has started to take in more prepared food than before including NLS pellets. If the female continues to eat the way she does she may bust out from her armor. :lol:

I've added a Mappa puffer and the male boxfish has been curious and tagging along swimming along the puffer. No aggression from either fish and the puffer actually kinda ignore the boxfish. I originally ordered a small mappa and the first one I received was 3" but unfortunately it was DOA and unexpectedly the replacement was 6.25". However, it appeared to be very healthy and eating well.

here's a pic of all three together
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8192.jpg

the male boxfish swims along side the puffer
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8092.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8098.jpg

[Recty]

Great pictures, it's good to see they arent fighting.

It is a mixed blessing sometimes getting a replacement fish, isnt it? I had the same thing happen with my 75g tank, I ordered a powder blue for my reef (this was before I knew much about tank size and tangs) which was DOA, but it was the perfect size around 2.5-3". The replacement I received was a 6" monster, it dwarfed every other fish in my tank and was horribly aggressive. I ended up taking it in to the LFS for a trade in.

Glad to hear your replacement is working out.

[LisaD]

Delighted to hear the blue boxfish are doing so well for you. I'm sorry the scribbled pair didn't make it. I have a female scribbled I've had for quite some time, but I lost a male I got sometime later. I have my female boxfish with a dogface puffer, and they get along fine, but I'd be cautious with the mappa puffer.

I see we have similar taste. I also have a blue spotted angel - though not in the same tank with the puffer and boxfish. This has become one of my favorite angels. She is with an emperor and a blue face.

[flameangel88]

Lisa, thanks for your input and I'll definitely keep an eye out on the Mappa. It was a toss up of Mappa or Dalmation puffer which I don't know if it would have made a difference. Kevin

[rssjsb]

Also sorry to hear about your solorensis. I've got a little female who eats everything and is very active. I also lost my male. He ate, but never very much. I lost him after about 2 months. I've ordered another - we'll see how he does.

I'm wondering if the males are more difficult to keep, like bluestripe pipefish.

Anyway, it's great to hear your blue spots are doing so well. I hope you'll keep up the periodic updates.

[flameangel88]

rssjsb,

Sorry to hear you losing your male Solorensis. I think the difficulty lies in that the bigger size of the male where it's difficult to wean them to prepared food. Since getting both the female was never picky and took NLS pellets early on where the male just started to. I attribute the male taking in more food since I added the Mappa and I guess monkey-see-monkey-do. He's eating large pieces as well where he wouldn't touch PE Mysis or frozen clams before. He's not as fast swimming toward the food and the puffer yet but does appeared they see the food a the bottom about the same time. i must admit there was times where I thought the male would eventually starve to death but now seeing him eating more I feel much better. From this point on I'll work on quarterly update.



Recty,

I never expected the huge 6.25" replacement but it was healthy, the vendor was very quick in finding a replacement (I know they sold out few days after I ordered) and they didn't charge me for shipping on the replacement. Customer service was definitely very good.

[LisaD]

I've heard from an experienced source that the males are harder to keep. Mine was small, so size/acclimation was not an issue. I'd like to try again sometime, but for now, am happy with my female.

[AquaKnight]

Flame, I looked through the thread, but what sized tank are these guys in? Due to some stocking issues, it looks like I am going to some 'leftovers' consisting of a Spiny Burrfish and a Bluespotted toby, so I'm thinking about a puffer/box tank.

[LisaD]

It was a toss up of Mappa or Dalmation puffer which I don't know if it would have made a difference.

I don't have experience with mappas, but I know they get huge. Dogface puffers (dalmation is a rare color morph) stay more reasonable sized, usually under a foot in aquaria, and are the least aggressive puffers, IMO. My boxfish hangs out with my dogface. I have an unusual dogface color morph, if you recall. It's a golden dalmation, from DD.

I also have the boxfish with a marine betta, wolf eel blenny and a Hawaiian spotted toby. They all get along well.

[BrianD]

Back in the old Aqualink days, there was an aquarist who went by the handle Fishwhisperer who was very knowledgable on this species. He still pops up every now and again. i will see if I can contact him to offer any insights he might have. I know this is one of his favorite subjects :)

[LisaD]

Which species, boxfish or mappa puffer? Either way, that would be great, I'll be tagging along. Boxfish and puffers are my favorite types of fish.

[BrianD]

I believe the specific fish he favored was the longhorn cowfish, but he a frequent writer in various forums on boxfish and cowfish.

[LisaD]

There is not enough reliable information about these fish. Before I get another boxfish, I'd like to have mine in good health for over a year (getting close). There was an informative website devoted to cowfishes and boxfishes, I don't think it exists any more. Was he by chance one of the owners of the site?

The scribbled boxfish (O solorensis) is really ideal, since it's maximum size is 4". Since the anecdotal evidence suggests that females are hardier than males, I may get a second female, eventually. Mine is in a reef and grazes on inverts and macroalgae all day. I think nutrition is key to their longevity in captivity.

[BrianD]

Lisa, I know he had a website in the past. His name is Monty Coty, and he is a member here as well (Fish Whisperer), but he hasn't posted in some time. I emailed him to see if the email address I have is still valid.

Brian

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15709527#post15709527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquaKnight407
Flame, I looked through the thread, but what sized tank are these guys in? Due to some stocking issues, it looks like I am going to some 'leftovers' consisting of a Spiny Burrfish and a Bluespotted toby, so I'm thinking about a puffer/box tank.

They are in a 75g and I feel they are all ready to go into the 125g but I need to monitor the Mappa a bit more before doing. I'm very comfortable with the box pair especially the male is eating more but since I didn't QT the Mappa I want to give another 2 weeks before moving all of them.


Lisa,

I know the Mappa will get large and my long term plan is to move the Mappa into the 180 which is currently housing mostly angels and deepwater fish after the upgrade.

I also have a 4" Marine Betta in the 180 that I only see the head sticking out of the cave during feeding time. At least I see the Wrasse bass and Candy Cane hogfish much more.

I would like to to get a Dalmation puffer down the road after the upgrade but will have to see how the Mappa behave. The Japanese Komon puffer on LA DD also looks interesting. This sub-tropical fish can tolerate warmer water temperatures and grows to 8". I like the Hawaii Whitley's boxfish also...only if I can put them all in a swimming pool through the winter. :lol:


Brian,

I hope you'll be able to find Monty to shed more light on these beautiful fish. :)

[Elysia]

flame -- I wonder if your male box is a bit near-sighted and sees that large Mappa as a huge female box? The one photo that you have of all three of them together -- the Mappa's and the female's color and pattern are really quite similar! Your male box figures he just landed the largest female box in the sea! No wonder he decided to start hitting the buffet; he needs to pack on the pounds to tangle with her!

[Elysia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15698620#post15698620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
I've added a Mappa puffer and the male boxfish has been curious and tagging along swimming along the puffer.
here's a pic of all three together
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8192.jpg


If you squint your eyes....:inlove:

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15712003#post15712003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Elysia
flame -- I wonder if your male box is a bit near-sighted and sees that large Mappa as a huge female box? The one photo that you have of all three of them together -- the Mappa's and the female's color and pattern are really quite similar! Your male box figures he just landed the largest female box in the sea! No wonder he decided to start hitting the buffet; he needs to pack on the pounds to tangle with her!

lol

If that's the case it may be 'lucky me' and end up with a hybrid. :lol:

[LisaD]

my female scribbled boxfish is enamored of my golden dalmation puffer, follows it around like a puppy dog - maybe Elysia is onto something! :)

[LuvAngels88]

Neat stuff:

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/spotted-boxfish-at-x2000-magnification/

[rssjsb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15709618#post15709618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LisaD
There is not enough reliable information about these fish. . . . Since the anecdotal evidence suggests that females are hardier than males, I may get a second female, eventually. Mine is in a reef and grazes on inverts and macroalgae all day. I think nutrition is key to their longevity in captivity. [/B]

My new male scribbled was DOA. It was very sad. The shipping water was really cloudy and I suspect he poisoned himself. I wish I knew whether these fish are born male or female or if they differentiate (and, if so, when).

I would get another female in a heartbeat if I thought they could be kept together. The one I have is doing very well. She eats everything, including pellets.

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15736895#post15736895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LuvAngels88
Neat stuff:

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/spotted-boxfish-at-x2000-magnification/

Thanks Susan. That's very interesting.

[Torno]

i ordered two female scribbed boxfish from bluezooaquatics about a week ago.
after hiding up until a few days ago, they're finally coming out and picking at rocks, exploring, etc.
i haven't noticed any aggression between the two and they even hide in the same spot in the rock from time to time, despite one being almost an inch bigger.

[LisaD]

My new male scribbled was DOA. It was very sad. The shipping water was really cloudy and I suspect he poisoned himself. I wish I knew whether these fish are born male or female or if they differentiate (and, if so, when).

I would get another female in a heartbeat if I thought they could be kept together. The one I have is doing very well. She eats everything, including pellets.

sorry you lost your male in transit. my understanding is that you can keep several females together. this is a very peaceful boxfish. I suspect they are born male or female, as they differentiate, by pattern, early (at a few inches). I'm not sure when males develop the blue coloration, but you can tell male from female very early on just by the pattern.

If you look at pictures of adult males vs. females, and note pattern, not color, you'll see what I mean. Even small boxfish show one pattern or the other.

[sohal1025]

Cool looking fish none the less....

[flameangel88]

i ordered two female scribbed boxfish from bluezooaquatics about a week ago.
after hiding up until a few days ago, they're finally coming out and picking at rocks, exploring, etc.
i haven't noticed any aggression between the two and they even hide in the same spot in the rock from time to time, despite one being almost an inch bigger.

Torno, any updates on your new pair?

Anyone else with boxfish please feel free to share your experiences here.

The female Blue boxfish hangs around the Mappa as well now. This picture was taken on 9/27
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8372.jpg

[Torno]

As of today, they're both doing very well.
One is definitely about an inch bigger than the other.
It's my smaller one who is the dominant eater, taking anything frozen I put in there, and coming out to "greet" me when I come to the tank.
The larger one is a bit more reclusive, deciding to get food from picking at the rocks and sand, hopefully he'll come along a little more with time.
How's everyone else doing?

[flameangel88]

I'm happy to get to this point for the quarterly update and it seem like it was a long time ago that I'd the boxfish pair. Hopefully there will many many more quarterly updates from me. :)

So far so good, the male Blue boxfish has learned to eat everything I put in from various frozen to pellets. Before he would only eat small items but now he will suck in PE Mysis without any problem.

I hope you folks don't mind that I'll update this boxfish thread along with the Mappa puffer for those who are interested in having boxfish with puffers.

The Mappa is doing really well and eats everything I've put in as well. Between the male boxfish and the puffer there's no left over on the bottom. The female boxfish prefers food in the water column.

Few pictures taken early this morning
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_8476.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_8474-1.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_8480.jpg


That's all for now.

[flameangel88]

2 more pictures of the male

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_8527.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_8529.jpg

[LisaD]

Thanks for the update and the great pictures! I think I mentioned earlier in your thread that my scribbled boxfish female is with two puffers (dogface and spotted toby) and gets along very well with them, especially the dogface. Glad to hear the mappa is behaving.

[FISH WHISPERER]

Just got your email... lol.... RARELY check that email... But hopefully my link still works, and these folks can follow it because I know that site is still good... Good to see ya.... Smitty actually lives one apartment over and across from me... Here in Alabama. Fancy that, huh?:wave:

[flameangel88]

I've been so bum out that I didn't get a chance to update here. Right before the last update I added a pair of Blue Throat trigs (3.25 & 3.5") and ich broke out 1.5 week after the update. Every fish was covered pretty quick and I started Cupramine treatment but the male boxfish died 3 days after the treatment while the others are recovering. The female boxfish is doing fine and the mappa is eating like a pig again. I've about 2 more weeks of treatment to go. After everything settled I'll look for another female and let them pair off on their own.

[rssjsb]

I'm so so sorry to hear this. Seems the males are just more fragile.

I've lost two male solorensis and I've given up.

[flameangel88]

I'm so so sorry to hear this. Seems the males are just more fragile.

I've lost two male solorensis and I've given up.

Thanks. Don't give up just get females the next time.

[Sardaukar]

How well do the boxfish compete with your other more aggressive eaters for food?

[flameangel88]

Boxfish (and my Mappa) do poorly in competing for food in top and mid water column as they move too slow. However, when I feed sinking pellets and meaty frozen that sinks they compete well as they clean up all the food that sunk to the bottom. They get their fair share of food.

[rssjsb]

My solorensis likes frozen meaty stuff, but she's an absolute fiend for 1 mm NLS pellets, which she eats from the water's surface. She has a harder time competing for food in the water column, but I float the pellets and she's a happy camper.

[LisaD]

Mine also likes meaty foods as well as Ocean Nutrition green (herbivore) cubes. She competes pretty well for food, isn't afraid to snatch it out of the dogface puffer's mouth. Several weeks ago, I got another O. solorensis, a small male from blue zoo, as well as another blue spotted angel to pair with the one I have. Both are in QT and seem to be doing really well so far.

[flameangel88]

Lisa,

Congrat on your new additions. I can't wait to see pictures of pairing when they come out of QT.

Kevin

[LisaD]

I'm bad about taking pictures, but will try to get some, just for you. :) I have some rearranging to do in the next few weeks - I am trying to get down to three large tanks instead of 7 or 8. Hopefully by the new year I'll have some nice pictures to show.

[Sardaukar]

Are they in a reef setting or FO?

[rssjsb]

Mine is in a reef tank with soft corals. She has shown no interest in any of them.

[LisaD]

mine is in a FO with lots of decorative macroalgae

[flameangel88]

Fowlr

[AcroporaUK]

Hi


I had a male just like the one in your picture (blue), but the most bizzarthing has happened over the last year or so, it's turned back into the colour of a female !


Regards


Martin


Just received this pair on Wednesday from LA and so far they've acclimated well. Any suggestions on their care requirements are welcome.

Here's the picture of the Solomon Islands pair posted by LA
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/SolomonIslandsBlueBoxfishpair3to5in.jpg

24 hours later in their new environment
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/IMG_7579.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7588.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7617.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7573.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/Blue%20Boxfish/IMG_7615-1.jpg

[flameangel88]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your post. I didn't know the male can revert back to female form in the absence of a female and don't recall reading anywhere about this. But this info is good to know so future buyers don't just buy a male without a female.

Kevin

[flameangel88]

Sorry for the late quarterly update as I've been bum out a bit. The remaining female is doing fine and eating everything from frozen to pellets so I decided it was time to add a male back and saw a nice one that's 3-3.5" at BZA wysiwyg section. I ordered on the last week of January and scheduled for a Saturday delivery. I got a call Friday that the male didn't make it but my other females were okay so I went ahead with the order anyway despite not getting a male. Saturday (1/30) came and I didn't see any update on the fedex site and later in the afternoon I got a call from BZA that the box was stuck in TN due to snow storm along with 11 other orders they shipped out to the East Coast.

Fedex finally delivered it on Monday but by that time the water temp was 50F and the female blue spot and two scribbled box were all dead.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5254.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5256.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5258.jpg

BZA was very quick issuing store credit but I decided to wait till the weather gets warmer before trying another male.

[Cracken]

Do u like the scribbled boxfish or the white spotted boxfish better?

[flameangel88]

Do u like the scribbled boxfish or the white spotted boxfish better?

Both are nice but if I'd to choose one then I would go with spotted box.

[flameangel88]

couple of pictures I just took

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5320.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5305.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/reeftankpix/DSC_5317.jpg


Hopefully by the time of the next quarterly update I'll have a male.

[mbingha]

Bump: Do you still have your hawaiian box?

[flameangel88]

Bump: Do you still have your hawaiian box?

No, I don't. If I have more time for this hobby I would love to try again but atm all my time has been at work.

[mbingha]

No, I don't. If I have more time for this hobby I would love to try again but atm all my time has been at work.

What happened? Did he nuke your tank?

[flameangel88]

The big male didn't but the little one did. The female was never the same after the male died. I was running carbon and when nothing happened after the male died I didn't think much. When the female died the skimmer went nuts and that's how I knew but was late as I lost a few fishes by then. I recall posting this in another thread about the need to run more carbon.

[simo2004]

Gutted