Rebuild and recovery of a dead tank

[jason2459]

Got a 55g tank about two years ago from my sister in law who ran it for about 3-4 years before that. I thought I did a pretty good job in keeping it up and added several new items to it for about a year. Here's a picture of it just after I got it home and setup.

http://i26.*******.com/rmn3a9.jpg

Ended up getting a HOB refugium (no clue as make and is ~10g, C-220 Marineland canister filter, Coralife 6x 18w) UV filter, Coralife 65 super skimmer, and some more live rock.

It came with a coralife pc lighting and I added on a glo double t5 lighting. Have no idea what kind of substrate but it was around 2in or so.

Didn't really do any corals other then a kenya tree that multiplied itself all over the place. Only death I had while running it was a firefish jumping out. I bought pretty much everything that I added on from a local fish guy. Tom from Beyond the Sea. Always got a good deal and would hand pick any livestock I wanted.

Unfortunately don't really have that many pictures of the before. Luckily I had that one. Favorite things in there were probably a copper banded butterfly that I found liked to be hand fed live muscles and would let me pet him and a white spotted hermit crab which liked the muscles too. They ate better then I did.


Reason I don't have many pictures left is because of this happening in June of 2008.

http://i28.*******.com/2qb62q8.jpg


I lost everything in the tank of course, including 95% of everything else the wife and I owned.


http://i25.*******.com/3532gl5.jpg


Wife felt bad and got me this as soon as we found a new home to move into as that flooded home lost a big chunk of it's foundation and the cost to repair would be more then the house was worth.

http://i30.*******.com/bdqjyw.jpg

He's in our soon to be baby boy's room on top of a dresser. Of course the theme is underwater sea life. (NOT NEMO! I keep getting people saying "OH, You have a Finding Nemo room?"!!!)

[IridescentLily]

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>
You've certainly been through quite alot, i'm so sorry about your home and the flood. :-(
You're wife is lovely gal getting you another tank after all that you two went through. She's a keeper. ;) Cool betta.

You certainly seem to great talent with the copperband, i was always too afraid to keep one, how cool that yours eats out of your hands!

You have the same sized tank that my first sw tank was.
I had a canister filter too. It was a big honkin' one. I had no idea what i was doing and was afraid of my own filteration system. lol

My first question to you would be; what do you plan on keeping fish/ coral-wise?
And then the more experienced forum members can help you plan the rest.

It'll be neat to watch your tank progress if you wish to keep us updated. We like those kinds of updated tank build threads and the pictures too.

Good luck!
And congratulations, on your new family member. :D

[jason2459]

Thanks Abril.

I was nervous at first with the CBB and cut some egg create up to section off the tank when I first introduced him to the tank as I read and heard he would be to nervous to eat and other fish would compete to much for him to get enough. Tried brine, scallops, clams, and finally found the smaller black shelled live muscles from a local grocery store was what he was craving. I'd scrub off the shell, crack it open, and just hold it in there as he'd rip everything right off the shell. He never did eat any aptasia that I had.

I really don't like the canister filter and if I do end up using it will be for mechanical filtering into the UV filter. I'm looking into ozone as an alternative to the UV filter.

Not exactly sure what will go in the tank for livestock. I would like to get some different corals eventually. I love inverts of all types. They're just fun to watch and great personalities. For fish I'd like to stick with smaller fish and will look for peaceful/reef compatible fish. I do want to get about 30 more lbs of liverock. Currently have about 50lbs of dead rock.

http://i26.*******.com/2m6ri34.jpg

I've sanded down and restained the stand and canopy.

http://i26.*******.com/5cdkd1.jpg

Replaced all the hardware except for the door handles as I thought they were pretty unique and were a nice solid brass that I was able to clean up.

http://i26.*******.com/zyc93r.jpg

I've ordered and started to receive several things already. Current Sundial 48" 4 t5, 100lbs of dolomite gravel, auto top off system I'll rig up, 5 stage bulk reef supply RO/DI unit, perfecto undergravel filter (will be reversing the flow into it with two 53gph pumps), aqua lifter for the ato, big manum pump for pumping up new salt mix water, and a bunch of plumbing.

I already ran a new 20amp GFCI circuit dedicated to use. I'll have the RO/DI unit fill up a res that I'll check and fill up once a week (more or less) and use the aqua lifter to pump to the ATO that I'll have on a timer to run in short spurts. Then I'll have two runs of tubing going to the basement and straight into a drain. One will be hooked up to one of those hand primers and used to drain watter and the other run will go to the magnum pump in the mixing water to pump up new water. I'll have ball valves to stop and restrict flow.

Here's the HOB refug.

http://i29.*******.com/4gr42.jpg

I want to use that to grow macro algae or anything else that just wants to grow back there. Will light that up with a small florescence light at night.

For biological filtration I want to try something out that I've found is kind of unpopular right now I guess. I want to us a reverse undergravel filter. I've been researching all type of things from SSB, DSB, NSB, Plenum, Plenum variants, RDSB, Refug DSB/SSB in DT, blah blah blah. I really liked the idea and how the RUGF works.

Here's the setup so far. Got the tank scrubbed out and painted the back black.

http://i30.*******.com/20u5tgz.jpg

[ddinox64]

Jason. Pauls got you hooked on the RUGF huh? Thinking of doing the same if I ever get my 90 in the house.

Does the tank slide in to that wood frame or is it that the frame?
Looks like a good job on the refinsh too.

Wow buddy. That's a pretty amazing deal to go through. That kind of devistation blows my mind. And in June! Hell, California doesn't get that kind of water in January. Let alone our other two months of winter.

This next home on stilts, or atleast a hill?

[Rae C.]

Beautiful job re-finishing the stand! That is a very unique one, with the tank frame and handles.

How bout a pic of the new house? Those floods were amazing, hope it was the 100 year flood and it won't happen again for a long time.

I'm keeping an eye on this build. Looks like a good one!

[jerryvan]

Hello Jason--Congrats on the new addition and sorry about the flood. How long ago did the flood happen?
Paul does have a way of convincing people about the RUGF. I am thinking about switching my 120 over but man that is a lot of work and it has taken me 3 1/2 yrs to get mine running fairly well.--Jerry

[jason2459]

@ddinox64 Yep, the RUGF just seems more natural to me. I grew up and lived in the Keys for around 20 years or more. Reminds me of the everglades down there that is basically two really wide rivers that move really slowly below the ground push up through it. It even pushes water out into the ocean and bay side. I went searching for them and found one on both sides. Old sailors and pirates use to fill up with water when they found them. Manatee's love them as well.

The top frame slides off and also has hinges on top that I can lift up the top front part with out taking the entire thing off if I just need to get to the front.

Here's another picture after the flood clean up. The two parts separate.

http://i29.*******.com/ja823c.jpg


@Rae: Thanks. It was a lot of work sanding that thing down. I really think its a really interesting cover. Don't think I've seen another one out there like it.

While cleaning the tank out I saw a tag on the edge of the tank saying it was made on February 22, 1980. So, I'm assuming that's about when the stand was made as well.

Not sure where my sister-in-law got it from but It's the perfect size for me I think. Feel bad she had to give it up because she was moving to someplace she couldn't have it. But it's really helped cure some homesickness.

BTW, the flood was more like a 1000 year flood. When we bought that house I looked at the flood plain map and made sure that the houses we were looking at were not even in the 500 year flood plain. No one expected the river to crest like it did and our neighborhood didn't even get an evacuation notice. We had enough time to pack our cars with a couple suit cases and get out of there.

500 year flood plain covered areas up to around 26' and it crested at close to 32 feet. The neighbor and I kayaked out to our homes and that's when we got that picture in the first post.

Needless to say we didn't have flood insurance...

I think the hardest thing to loose was the car in this picture:
http://i27.*******.com/hweazd.jpg

My grandfather bought it brand new in 1967, Austin Healey Sprite. I had a lot of fun playing around with that car.

ddinox64, yep our house is now on a little hill on top of a little hill. The basement here is poured cement and never had water or humidity problems.

Here's a pic of the new house. Needed a lawn mowing here. I put in that fencing for our little pooch.

http://i30.*******.com/35i4msg.jpg

Since moving in October of 2008, I've put up a new garage behind the garage that was already there but facing the back alley, replaced every window, put in a bathroom in the basement, put in a crafts room in the basement for the wife (not 100% done with that yet), put in a new kitchen cabinet, hood fan, and moved the oven over having to redirect the gas for that, put the baby's room together, landscaping, new fencing, grill patio area, and lots of painting. Been a little busy.

@Jerryvan: Paul really doesn't have to do to much convincing really. The results of an almost 40 year old tank kind of talks for itself. lol

BTW, the flood crested on Friday the 13th, 2008. The house was under water sometime on Thursday and still had water there because of pooling until at least the Wednesday of the next week when we were finally allowed back into the neighborhoods to look at things and we still had water over the basement level.

[jason2459]

Oh, here's the pooch stealing some water out of the little water foutain I had just put in.

http://i26.*******.com/123m5mr.jpg

[Rae C.]

Man, I've got a few jobs around my house that need done! My husband has too many of his own projects to deal with the house. You and your wife want to do a working vacation in Colorado?! ;)

[jason2459]

:lol:

No thanks. But we do need to get out to Colorado at some point. Wife's brother and family live out in Denver.


Here's some fish I'm looking at.

Kaudern's Cardinal http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1926+82&pcatid=82

Ocellaris Clownfish
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+2124+755&pcatid=755

Royal Gramma Basslet
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+21+53&pcatid=53
or
Gold Assessor Basslet
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+21+1422&pcatid=1422

Six Line Wrasse
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+375&pcatid=375

Green Mandarin (way down the line like in a year or more but want to plan for him)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1635+551&pcatid=551

[jason2459]

Inverts I'd like

Crocea Clam http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+529+1650&pcatid=1650

Flame Scallop
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+522+559&pcatid=559

Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+696&pcatid=696

Peppermint Shrimp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+701&pcatid=701

Banded Coral Shrimp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+698&pcatid=698

[jason2459]

Don't know a thing about corals so I'll have to research these more.. Would love a lot of input on this or alternatives based on what I like here.

Forest Green Galaxea
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2513+2494&pcatid=2494

Elegance Coral
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+321+461&pcatid=461

Giant Green Polyp Duncan
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2513+2670&pcatid=2670

Neon Pineapple Tree Coral
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2512+2412&pcatid=2412

Evergreen Starburst Polyp
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2512+2405&pcatid=2405

Neon Green Palau
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2512+2759&pcatid=2759

White Pom Pom Xenia
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+2341+2512+2366&pcatid=2366

[sedor]

I don't think the undergravel filter is something your going to be happy with in the end. I actually didn't even think they sold them anymore. The sand bed can be used to grow beneficial bacteria that will in turn aid in the biological filtration. This is why a lot of people believe in the use of the DSB. The LR you are using in your tank will be able to cover this though, and will actually be the source of your filtration, so you could get away with just a couple inches of sand. By using a reverse undergravel filter you will be constantly disrupting the sand, so you should have a nice clean sand bed, but that's about it. IMO I would do without, it will probably cause more problems than its worth in the end. For just a standard FOWLR tank you actually don't need much more than your LR for filtration. Make sure you add a couple powerheads for flow. I personally wouldn't run a system without a skimmer either, but thats debateable.

Hope this helps a bit :)

[jason2459]

@ryandlf: Thanks for the input. It'll be a fun experiment. If anything the little critters will love it and hopefully flourish so when I add the mandarin he'll have plenty of food.

I have a Coralife super skimmer and pleased to find out it is ozone compatible according to their manual I found in pdf. I think I'm going to go that route instead of the UV filter. Found out I'm missing the o-ring on the skimmer though for the top collection cup. I'll need to find a replacement size for it. I'd also like to drill a hole and attach a hose to run down into a larger collection bucket in case it ever goes crazy on me and overflows. I had that happen to me once before. Not sure how to do that so will have to figure out the best way to drill and secure a hose in the collection cup.

I'm getting two Hydor Koralia 3 pumps rated at 850 gph each, the skimmer is rated at 325 gph, and a pump for the refugium is around 250gph I believe. So around 2275 gph. Or go with two Koralia 2 pumps rated at 600 gph and get around 1775 gph. Not sure which would be better for my 55g tank?

I do plan on getting some corals but only had a FOWLR before except for the one kenya tree that turned into a million. I guess I did something right for at least the kenya.

[fishyness]

Sorry about your house, my grandmother used to live in Timecheck. Man that cleanup was really bad wasn't it. Tanks looking good tho!

[jason2459]

@fishynes: I hope you grandmother is doing good and wasn't living there when the flood happened. That was about the worse hit neighborhood along with checkvillage a little further down the river.

[Rae C.]

Jason, love the choices of fish. I was very happy with nearly the same selection. I have 2 K3's in my 65g, I would recommend the same for yours. as for corals, you may find the xenia and evergreen star polyp do the same as the kenyas. It's good for a fast fill out and easy to prune as needed for the other corals.

[fishgeek12]

OMG! That is very sad to see! Good luck with the new tank!

[Paul B]

Paul does have a way of convincing people about the RUGF.

Reverse UG filters do a lot of good things but they won't prevent a flood. :(



I don't think the undergravel filter is something your going to be happy with in the end. I actually didn't even think they sold them anymore.

Dam! I knew I was using the wrong system for 40 years. :D

The sand bed can be used to grow beneficial bacteria that will in turn aid in the biological filtration. This is why a lot of people believe in the use of the DSB.

This is true, it is also why there are no old tanks running with DSBs :lol:

Have a great day and I am real sorry for all of your losses. Whatever system you go with, good luck with it.
paul :cool:

[jason2459]

@Rae: Thanks for the input. Can't wait to setup the live rock and play around with the water flow around them.

So, 3 Yellow Tangs and 2 Blue Tangs should be fine to add to the mix?

@fishgeek12: It was pretty crushing to see the tank like that but probably more so for my sister-in-law. She came along with the mother-in-law to help clean up and throw everything to the side of the road. She's excited that I'm starting it back up.

@Paul: Must have been a miserable 40 years dealing with that RUGF! I'm definitely going through with it.

Got The RO/DI unit hooked up and ready to use tonight.

http://i29.*******.com/tag49l.jpg

Super easy. To easy, the DI unit wasn't fully tightened and leaked a bit. Little twist and all's good. Already had everything hooked up except the water line into the 4 stages and the water line from the RO into the DI. The flush kit , return check valve, water pressure gauge, and the TDS meter into the DI and out from the DI were all preinstalled.

Ran a water line over with a regular garden hose valve and hooked up the adapter it came with to that. Got a 75 foot run of 1/4" water line to curl up later into a bucket of heated water for the winter when the water will get super cold. Hooked up the ball valve that came with the unit and joined the in line to the unit to the coiled up tubing I bought. Love the pressure gauge and used the ball valve to set the pressure to 65psi. Flushing the toilet made it only drop to about 63psi. Then just turn on and off the water to the unit with the main valve.

Just got done flushing the unit and running it for close to an hour. Definitely needed to do that. The TDS input and output at first was about 40. About 10 minutes in it dropped to 40 in and 0 out. Dropped to 20 in around the 40m mark and is currently at 9 in and 0 out when I stopped it. Filled up more into my RO/DI bin then I thought it would.

[Aquarist007]

I just came up from my basement fish room after spending two hours mopping up after two floods. The first one at 5.30 for unknown reasons and the second one about 10.00pm because a snail crawled into the refugium line and it overflowed about 20 gals
Needless to say I was a little ticked off--but after reading this thread I am humbled by what you and your wife have gone through and survived together.
From now on I will remember this thread when I get the measely 5 -20 gal floods occasionally.

I wish you all the luck in this hobby and will continue to follow your interesting thread.

[jason2459]

Thanks Capn. That's terrible news about the flooding. I'm super paranoid about flooding now. One of the reasons I'm going to attempt to drill a 1.25in hole and slide in a 1/2 piping into my skimmer's collection cup to drain straight into a drain. Was going to have it go into a collection bucket but realized why not straight into a drain.

No one around here has uniseals so got one ordered online and will attempt to not destroy the collection cup. My neighbor has a drill press and will ask him to see if I could use that. Got a drill bit made for metal, plastic, acrylic, etc... Bulk head would be to big for this small HOB skimmer and a uniseal seemed perfect.

I ordered a red sea ozonizer from DFS and will hook it up to the skimmer. I have everything else hooked up and ready for the dolomite, dead rock, and water. Should be getting the dolomite in the next couple days. Got the shipping confirmation on Monday and is being sent priority mail.

[jason2459]

Well, found a site that has given me exactly the idea I need to put together an ATO. I'll have a 5 gallon bucket under the stand to pump RO/DI water into manually. Use the aqualifter to pump water into the tank. No worries with that pump if the res. runs dry.

Will have two float sensors to turn off the pump when the water is at the desired level. One at about 2in down from the top and the other at about 1in down from the top as a fail safe. Also, a third float sensor about three inches down in the opposite position to turn the pump off if the tank is some how drained (ie. skimmer going nutso or even worse tank failure leaking water). Each sensor will be encased in a pvc house with caps and drilled holes to prevent critters crawling on them and ripple action on top of the water switching them on and off.

If all the two top float switches fail because they got salt creep or anything else that might make them stick between periodic cleanings I'll have a gri water sensor mounted on the floor to turn the pump off.

Hopefully it'll be as failsafe as possible. All sensors will be controlling a 12v relay switching a standard power cord to the pump. IF total failure happens I'll probably only be keeping about 3 gallons of water in the top of container at a time which I'm guessing will last about a week from the last time I had this tank setup.

Yes, I'm paranoid about water flooding now. lol

BTW, got the setup idea from a website that deals with auto top off and is a dot com. Kind of put all that together and you have the website name. Not sure what this forums policy is on listing sites that are not sponsors so I'll leave it at that until I get the lay of the land down more around here.

[Paul B]

I have a 5 gallon bucket under my skimmer which also catches the effluent. I built a float switch out of a GFI. When the water gets too high in the bucket, the GFI turns off the pumps to the skimmer. It has saved me from numerous floods.
I also built the same thing under my domestic water heater.
If there is a leak, the intake water shuts off with an electric valve.

[fishnub]

way to bounce back!

[EnglishRebel]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. :( I know the house was your major loss but that AH was a nice car (I restored a 64 TR4 15 years ago).
Paul
I had the water valve on my almost brand new dishwasher stick open and flood my hardwood floor. Fortunately I caught it in time when my wife came home and said 'where's all that water in the basement coming from'. I had to replace about six or eight T&G boards. After that I got one of these (so I can sleep at night). They have a 3/8" compression fitting.
Floodstop (http://www.thewateralarm.com/wateralarm/pc/FS-3-8-C2-Leak-Detector-Auto-Shutoff-for-Dishwasher-Water-Filter-Toilet-6p34.htm) The name doesn't refer to the OPs flood though (wish it could). :(

[jason2459]

Wish there was a multi-quote feature on this forum, unless I'm missing something.

@Paul B. That's a great idea with the gfci and the water heater. I'm going to need to replace ours pretty soon anyways as it's just over 12 years old now. I could hook something like that up at the same time. I was just thinking the collection bucket idea might be a better choice instead of dumping straight into the drain. With that setup I wont need to look a good 4in of water in the tank because as soon as it goes over flowing it will shut it off and protect the pump from running dry.

@fishnub: Thanks. It's been a long road and still going. We're still waiting to find out if our house will get bought out or not. Luckily the governor here started something called the Jumpstart program and is paying on the mortgage of that house until they find out if it will get bought out. We would have had to foreclose on it if they weren't. I think it's harder on the wife then it is me. I'm just happy we have each other, our health, and looking forward to our new baby boy. I like to look forward and not backward.

[jason2459]

Opps missed your post Alan. Yeah the AH was irreplaceable. I could eventually go out and buy another one but it would never be the same. It was more of the fact it came from my grandfather and he had bought it brand new in 67. I looked at what it would take to restore it after that but that flood water was so toxic and corrosive it ate through everything. I would have had to replace every single part basically. Metal that was up in the top part of my garage was rusting that didn't even get wet.

[Paul B]

English that looks like a good item.
Jason I build them out of GFIs because I was an electrician and I have a bunch of them. They are only 12 bucks anyway. I just take a plastic pipe from the GFI outlet and use the neutral and ground from the load side of the GFI and lay that on the floor. or in a bucket for a float switch. It is of course not legal to do it that way but it works fine and as long as you use the neutral from the GFI you will not get a shock.

[jason2459]

Got the gravel in today and rinsed out.

http://i32.*******.com/jhbfvc.jpg

I really like the look of it. Almost looks crystalish or rock salt like. 50lbs filled in about an 1.5in and stopped there. Still deciding if I want to put any in the regufium or not. probably wont. I do have some dead rock in there though.

Here's an idea of what the size of the gravel looks like.

http://i31.*******.com/2gtc5ua.jpg

Setup the rock the way I think I want it for right now. Took pics with just the actinic on as everything looks totally bleached out with everything on.

http://i31.*******.com/x6msfk.jpg

http://i27.*******.com/2a0nskk.jpg

[jason2459]

opps, hit submit on accident. Here's a couple more.

http://i26.*******.com/24edqx1.jpg

http://i29.*******.com/hsqq89.jpg

[Aquarist007]

how much did you pay for the bag of dolomite?

[jason2459]

Capn, Here's the order confirmation.

Order amount: $120.50
Shipping Cost: $87.34
Shipping Method: Ground with Shipping Insurance Weight=105

It was the only place that I could find dolomite that wasn't coated in an epoxy resin for freshwater tanks.

[Rae C.]

You're doing a RUGF aren't you?

[jason2459]

Rae, that's the plan so far. I hear it's going to be a miserable experience though that I'll regret in about 40 years.

[Paul B]

Oh thats your tank. I thought it was a picture of my tank.

Dolomite? RUGF? Are you crazy man? :D

[jason2459]

I think it's a result of a mid-life crises. Some guys get a fancy sport car and feel rebelious... I get a RUGF w/ dolomite!

[Paul B]

I am past my mid life crises and am into my late life crises

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15413574#post15413574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I am past my mid life crises and am into my late life crises

and you just bought a new boat:lol:

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15412633#post15412633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Rae, that's the plan so far. I hear it's going to be a miserable experience though that I'll regret in about 40 years.

please take pictures step by step.
Although Paul has been very detailed in his construction of a rugf pictures would help and I don't think he is about to take his apart to post some;)

[Rae C.]

Agreed. Do you have pics from before you put in the dolomite? How do you make it "reverse"? I couldn't see the uprights in those pics and thought maybe you'd gone DSB...

[jason2459]

lol, keep bringing the comedy!

Here's the Perfecto Perfect-a-flow UGF after I took it out of the box and totally confused about all the parts.

http://i25.*******.com/1zz056s.jpg


With a little guidance from Paul I decided to keep the flow low and used one tube for each section. Here it is in the tank with two small fountain pumps that just happen to provide a max of 53gph and could be adjusted for a slower flow if wanted. I kept them open for now. I believe they are quite one.

http://i30.*******.com/20u5tgz.jpg

Now I'm curious... google searching....

Quite one model#200 53gph.
http://www.lifegardaquatics.com/products/product.php?id=10

I just have it shoved in the top but I think I'm going to get some 1/2" tubing and shove it down the main perfecto tubing. They just kind of lay on top right now and not super stable.

You can kind of see it behind the rock here

http://i31.*******.com/x6msfk.jpg

and here

http://i29.*******.com/hsqq89.jpg

[jason2459]

Talked with my LFG yesterday (local fish guy as he doesn't have a store front anymore) and tagged along with him this morning to help out change some water and add some live rock with one of the companies around here he's contracted with to keep their tanks up. I got about 30ish gallons of water to add to my tank. Plus I got about 20-25lbs of live rock.

Filled up the tank and added the live rock. Had some more salt water mixing and topped off the tank. Then I spent the next 8 hours rearranging the live rock about a gazillion times. I think the wife was getting annoyed but she helped me in the end get it to where I like it. At least for now. What sucks is it ended up in about the same way it started with and went back to that configuration about 20 times.

Here's some shots with all the lights on. It is a bit smoky as I've stirred up a lot of stuff today and of course I'm curing the live rock right in my tank. It was curing over my LFG's place already too.

http://i32.*******.com/1zqrer9.jpg

http://i26.*******.com/6gwpdy.jpg

http://i32.*******.com/2955m6p.jpg

http://i28.*******.com/abq97t.jpg

http://i27.*******.com/2sb64c2.jpg

[jason2459]

Ah, I ended up getting two Taam SEIO Prop Super Flow Pump p530's and a SEIO Super Flow Pump m820. Right now I get nice swirly things going all over my tank with just those and about 230gph from my refugium that's going as well. Plus a nice little rippling on top of the water. I liked that the p530's were a bit smaller size physically then the koralia and liked the wide flow of the m820. You can kind of see them through the muck in the pictures above.

I don't have the skimmer up and running yet with the ozone and probably wont run the ozone for a little while until the tank does it's initial cycle. Still have to get the o-ring I discovered was missing somehow when I was taking everything apart and cleaning.

http://i26.*******.com/22xoap.jpg

After I get that up and running I'll have a total of around 2435 gph not including the two 53gph pumps pushing into the RUGF. Not sure if that would calculate in that much.

[jason2459]

Took some parameters this evening at about 8:30pm using an API test kit.

Temp: 84f
pH: 8.4
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 160

[jason2459]

add salinity to that: ~34 w/ refractometer

[jason2459]

Wife and I took a trip out of town today to go look at a three LFS's. Really wish my LFG still had a LFS. All three were pretty high priced and pushed selling me fish and additives right away even though I told them I just setup the tank yesterday. None of them had any Chaeto. One of them, Petland, actually had decent coral displays and healthy looking fish. They had some macro but not what I wanted.

Did a small water change today of around 3-gallons. Took me about 3m to do. Already had the salt water mixing from yesterday. Put in my drain tube into the tank with a siphon pump attached like you would use on a boat to prime gas to the engine. Just needed to give it one good pump and it was going. Then attached the feeder tubing into the mag 1200 pump that was mixing the salt and back up stairs by the tank I opened up the ball valve. Easy as pie. No dragging water around and up and down the stairs.



9pm water test
Temp 84
pH 7.8
Salinity 35
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 80

[jason2459]

Much clearer today. Just noticed after transferring some pictures over I haven't hung up my pump to the refugium yet. It's now up by the outflow box for the skimmer. I did reposition the seio pumps a little. Not much though.

http://i29.*******.com/16a7db5.jpg


http://i25.*******.com/29xudth.jpg


http://i27.*******.com/315dba9.jpg

Here's a closer pictures of the dolomite.
http://i25.*******.com/2cz59w9.jpg


I know kind of boring. Did another small water change this afternoon. Will probably keep doing this until I get 0/0/0. Then cut back to checking parameters once a week and water changes once a week for a bit. Then cut back to once a month for both in the long run.

8:30pm Test
Temp 82 v
Salinity 35 -
pH 7.8 -
Ammonia 1 -
Nitrite 5 ^
Nitrate 80 -

Maybe I should start a thread freaking out about my Nitrite spike and high Nitrates?

[Aquarist007]

looks like the cycling is well underway by the ammonia and nitrate numbers. Water changes are a good way to go to minimize the ammonia spike and protect whatever has hitch hiked in with your live rock

[steve70]

Talking about tanks flooding, yall really have me paranoid now. I just installed my sump/refugium. After using a canaster filter.

Nice looking rock work jason2459!

[jason2459]

Thanks steve. I tried to make many caves and put some smaller rocks on the very bottom and propped up some of the bigger rocks.

Capn I certainly jumped straight to having some high nitrate by getting that water change water but I'm certainly not to worried about it right now. It'll go down.

I got the o-ring for the collection cup on the skimmer and got it going at half power right now to break it in.

http://i28.*******.com/2i8ur2t.jpg

I decided to try something out and have it feed into my HOB refugium.

http://i31.*******.com/315zc6w.jpg

Looks like I'm really close to becoming a daddy. The wife has been having contractions every 3-5 minutes all day. We were at the hospital for about half the day and were sent home because she isn't dilated beyond 1cm yet. Very frustrating and I feel really bad for her.

6:20pm Water test
temp 80 v
Salinity 35 -
pH 7.8 -
Ammonia 1 -
Nitrite 5 -
Nitrate 80 -

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433201#post15433201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Thanks steve. I tried to make many caves and put some smaller rocks on the very bottom and propped up some of the bigger rocks.

Capn I certainly jumped straight to having some high nitrate by getting that water change water but I'm certainly not to worried about it right now. It'll go down.

I got the o-ring for the collection cup on the skimmer and got it going at half power right now to break it in.

http://i28.*******.com/2i8ur2t.jpg

I decided to try something out and have it feed into my HOB refugium.

http://i31.*******.com/315zc6w.jpg

Looks like I'm really close to becoming a daddy. The wife has been having contractions every 3-5 minutes all day. We were at the hospital for about half the day and were sent home because she isn't dilated beyond 1cm yet. Very frustrating and I feel really bad for her.

6:20pm Water test
temp 80 v
Salinity 35 -
pH 7.8 -
Ammonia 1 -
Nitrite 5 -
Nitrate 80 -

wow it really is an exciting time for you right now. Keep us posted on the impending good news:D

[KarlBob]

Congratulations on your impending fatherhood.

You've made quite a comeback from the flood. My parents live in Ocean Springs, Mississippi (across the bay from Biloxi). Their house was also quite high above sea level, but Katrina still put several feet of water into it. Luckily, the foundation was not damaged, and they were able to repair the house. After seeing the pictures from their cleanup, I have an idea what kind of chaos you must have returned to.

From the pictures, the stand looks even better now than it did before the flood. Those oval "windows" on the sides of the tank are something I've never seen before. It's a neat effect.

I understand the loss of the car, too. My grandfather, who also lives in Ocean Springs, had a Mustang that he bought back in the 60s. A neighbor who worked on cars flushed out the salt water after the storm, but the damage was done, and it's gone now.

Good luck with the tank, and here's hoping the baby arrives soon!

[Rae C.]

What's the news on the baby? It's been almost 24 hours now...

[jason2459]

No baby yet. In fact the contractions slowed down to only a few here and there which she's had for a while now. She's very disappointed.

Got some chaeto in and thrown in the refug. Dido on another small water change this morning.

6:20pm Test
temp: 80 -
Salinity: 34 v
pH: 7.8 -
Ammonia: 1 -
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 80 -

[nanshaw2001]

Your new set up will be a great reward for what you have been through! Best of luck!!!

[jason2459]

Thanks nanshaw. I'm already just staring at it looking for any kind of change or creature to appear. I just love watching little things get caught up in the current and float around the tank.

[Rae C.]

Wait'll the baby comes. You'll spend hours watching it sleep ;)

[jason2459]

I think I'll be spending that time trying to catch some shuteye as well. :)

[jason2459]

Started to see a small bit of Coraline growth yesterday but it was a very small amount and almost unnoticeable. Overnight and by the time I got home tonight it is most definitely noticeable. Not just on the live rock that already had some on it but the bleached out dead rock that I had. I guess they really don't care if theres a bit of Ammonia, Nitrites, or Nitrates in the water. I suppose the small little water changes I've done every day probably has helped that along? BTW, I've been having the actinic lights come on at 4:30p - 9pm and the 10k lights come on at 5:30pm - 8pm.

Nothing yet on the baby front yet.

8:30pm Tests
Temp: 80 -
Salinity: 34 -
pH: 7.8 -
Ammonia: 1 -
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 80 -

[jason2459]

Almost have part of the ATO setup with the three float switches. For some reason I can't find on of the end caps for the critter guard and will have to get another one.

http://i28.*******.com/96ayon.jpg

Left switch shuts down the ATO incase the water level drops for some reason or doing a water change. Middle is the backup to the right float switch. Just a pvc housing around a float switch back to a relay connected to an extension cord.

Got the idea first from autotopoff and then found what I needed pretty cheap and directions from bulkreefsupply pointing to this site.

http://www.aquahub.com/store/diygaquarium.html

Still waiting for a 1.25" bit to drill into the collection cup. I ordered one as I couldn't find one at any of the hardware stores around here but it turns out it is on backorder. I think I'll go with Paul B's setup with it going into a collection bucket with a sensor in there to shutdown the skimmers pump.

8:15pm Tests
Temp: 82 ^
Salinity: 33 v
pH: 7.8 -
Ammonia: .25 v
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 20 v

[jason2459]

Finally found a few hitchhikers. Back at my LFG's place he found a little crab that he grabbed and put in his tank but that's all we saw and all I've seen since putting the rock in the tank. Maybe because the water parameters are getting better or they are just getting hungry but I've found two crabs and a snail savaging around.

The snail looks like a Nerite?
http://i25.*******.com/2u70r41.jpg

One of the crabs is definitely a blue leg.
http://i27.*******.com/b49bf6.jpg

The other crab I'm not sure. It's a bit bigger but looks more brownish. Can't be 100% but the claws look about equal in size. Hopefully it's a red tip. Crappy pic. I just have a cheap point'n shoot digital with no manual controls at all.

http://i32.*******.com/2na4tpc.jpg

Very happy about those guys. Hope there's enough in the tank for them to eat.

I finally found a 1.25" bit I could use to drill a hole in the collection cup and got that plumbed to a bucket where I have a sensor on the bottom to turn off the skimmer. I like this switch as it automatically turns back on once dry. So, if by chance I'm gone for week or more and the skimmer overflows it will switch it off. As the water evaporates it will turn it back on. Takes very little water for it to react. Tested it out as soon as it was setup.

Uniseal worked great. 1/2in sch 40 pvc to a threaded/slip angle. screwed in a barb fitting and pushed in a 1/2in vinyl tubbing.

http://i30.*******.com/25arbyb.jpg

http://i28.*******.com/1427w4j.jpg

Got a Hanna instruments ph/orp/temp probe as I'm going to be hooking up the ozone to the skimmer at some point. Not sure yet on when the best time would be to do that. I was figuring on waiting until the tank fully cycled.

Another small water change this morning.

7:30pm Tests
Temp: 79.9 v (Hanna)
SG: 34 ^
pH: 7.9 ^ (Hanna)
ORP: 130mv (Hanna)
Ammonia: 0 v !!!!
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 10 v

Figured that my ammonia shouldn't be at 0 so fast so I dumped in a bit of Windex. Really glad I've been checking every night as it's given me good practice and a really good eye at determining between the different colors to match against and what the liquid looks like.

[jason2459]

Thought my snail was dead today. I was going to take it out but turns out he was just hibernating again I guess. He started moving around tonight. The little crabs are all over the place trying to find something to eat. I do notice a little thin grayish/clear film starting to cover things around the tank.

Started to extend the hours my lights run. Actinics go from 12p - 9pm and 10k's go from 1p-8pm. Hope that gets some algae going for these guys that hitched a ride into my tank.

Collection bucket and sensor switch performed another successful test run today all on it's own. Still getting the skimmer dialed in. Will probably have to do that again once I start adding critters in the future.

Another little water change this morning.

8pm Tests
temp: 80.3 ^
SG: 34 -
pH: 7.9 -
ORP: 117
Ammonia: 0 -
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 20 ^

Hope that means the off the chart nitrites are starting to be turned into Nitrates.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15461698#post15461698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Thought my snail was dead today. I was going to take it out but turns out he was just hibernating again I guess. He started moving around tonight. The little crabs are all over the place trying to find something to eat. I do notice a little thin grayish/clear film starting to cover things around the tank.

Started to extend the hours my lights run. Actinics go from 12p - 9pm and 10k's go from 1p-8pm. Hope that gets some algae going for these guys that hitched a ride into my tank.

Collection bucket and sensor switch performed another successful test run today all on it's own. Still getting the skimmer dialed in. Will probably have to do that again once I start adding critters in the future.

Another little water change this morning.

8pm Tests
temp: 80.3 ^
SG: 34 -
pH: 7.9 -
ORP: 117
Ammonia: 0 -
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 20 ^

Hope that means the off the chart nitrites are starting to be turned into Nitrates.

this thread is getting more and more interesting esp with the picture progress Jason:cool:

How much flow do you have established in your tank--the film build up seems like lack of flow

[jason2459]

Thanks capn. The film seems to be just collecting on top of the pumps, heaters, and the suction cups. There is one rock that is collecting some stuff. The one above with the snail hanging upside down is the rock and you can kind of see the film in that picture. Otherwise none of the other rocks are collecting it and neither is the substrate.

The rock happens to be right in front of the glass and I wisk the magfloat by it several times and it loosens up the film and most of it floats off.

I have two seio p530's, one seio mp820, maxijet that puts out about 230gph, and the skimmer at about 325gph. Not including the two 53gph pushing into the RUGF that is about 2435gph.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15464316#post15464316 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Thanks capn. The film seems to be just collecting on top of the pumps, heaters, and the suction cups. There is one rock that is collecting some stuff. The one above with the snail hanging upside down is the rock and you can kind of see the film in that picture. Otherwise none of the other rocks are collecting it and neither is the substrate.

The rock happens to be right in front of the glass and I wisk the magfloat by it several times and it loosens up the film and most of it floats off.

I have two seio p530's, one seio mp820, maxijet that puts out about 230gph, and the skimmer at about 325gph. Not including the two 53gph pushing into the RUGF that is about 2435gph.

Is the water surface really churrning--that could help also.

[jason2459]

Wow, that sucks. I just had a HUGE post that had to many images in it and I clicked back and nothing here..... GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

BRB RETYPING EVERYTHING AGAIN!!!

[jason2459]

Well, lets try this again. I previously said blah blah blah... blah blah a lot of times. I'll split this up into several posts.

Capn, I readjusted my pumps a bit. I also added my ozonizer today to get it adjusted and stabilized before I add anything and kill it. I'm starting at 5%(2.5mg/h) and expect to get up to about 50%(25mg/h) over the next week or two. I'll be checking the ORP to let me know if everything will be okay. The ORP level right now is way low so I should be okay.

From left to right. Here I adjusted the left seio pump down and facing up and to the center a bit. That along with my refugium return causes some good water movement on the surface. I think I had it there before. You can also see I adjusted the skimmer pump angled up toward the surface more.

http://i30.*******.com/23ixu9h.jpg

With the skimmer pump angled up it's pulling the surface scum in a lot better. It also makes a tiny little vortex at times. Doesn't make any noise though so that's good. You can kind of see it behind the gazillion bubbles, more on that below.

http://i30.*******.com/2ztaiit.jpg


In the middle I have the 830 pointed forward and downward. On the right I have the other 530 poing slightly down and center.

http://i25.*******.com/25zox7l.jpg

In the back below the skimmer pump I have the maxijet stuffed behind a rock pointed to the right and down slightly.

http://i25.*******.com/2d9tpow.jpg

The skimmer outputs into the refugium which it's outflow kind of spreads itself out over where it hangs onto the tank. I used to have it poing right into the water but this spread it out over a longer area, reduces air forming bubbles as it enters the tank, and also thought about Paul B's algae trough idea and though this would be good for that too.

http://i28.*******.com/xofle0.jpg

[jason2459]

The pentazillion bubbles are from adding the ozonizer earlier today. I've read about the coralife skimmer I have and found it performs a bit better with restricted airflow via an air valve but then also read that it's more consistent with an air pump restricted as well. Took me about an hour to get it adjusted right from to much air to to little air spewing micro bubbles everywhere every time. The model 10 whisper air pump is SUPER quiet as long as it doesn't touch anything. Even with the little rubber feet as soon as I set it down on the wood inside the cabinet it would vibrate. Got some foam from the canister filter I'm not using and surrounded the pump with that. Worked perfectly. Yes, I do have an ozone safe one way check valve in use. Yes, I know I need to get things organized under there...

Also, wanted to mention that I have the water sensor in the bucket, that goes to a relay, and attaches to an extension cord. From the extension cord I have the air pump, ozonizer, and skimmer connected. That way when it senses water all three shut off and doesn't keep producing ozone.

Water sensor --> relay --> extension cord --> skimmer/airpump/ozonizer.

Air flow:
air pump --> air control valve --> dryer --> ozonizer --/> check valve ---> skimmer pump air inlet.

http://i28.*******.com/25at7hz.jpg

Constant and restricted air is suppose to create a lot more foam from this skimmer.... doesn't look much different to me from getting it adjusted the way I wanted it before but then again I have about 0.00000001% bioload right now.

http://i28.*******.com/2je8nbr.jpg

[jason2459]

While I was under the cabinet I decided to take pictures of the ATO setup. 5gal bucket with the aqualifter plugged into the relay extension cord attached to the float sensors. The bucket is fed by RO/DI in the basement and has a float valve in there too incase I don't check in time and the bucket overflows with RO/DI water.

http://i28.*******.com/1zee3py.jpg

I used a magnet with airline holder adapter to keep the hose where I want it in the bucket. I have it about an inch up as later on when I want to get into corals I'm thinking I'll probably be dosing wage's lime and don't want to suck up any of the stuff that might settle on the bottom. (Probably wont have any SPS.)

http://i27.*******.com/5kemc8.jpg

The top of the tank has a stiff U-loop to pretty much drip the water in really slowly (supposed to be ~3g/h.)

Have a check valve going from the pump to the tank as well.

Float sensors ---> relay ---> extension cord ---> aquatlifter sucks water up from the bucket ---/> check valve ---> tank

http://i29.*******.com/nlqtfp.jpg

I think I got everything that I had in the previous post that got wiped out but I'm sure I forgot something.

Small water change this morning.

8pm Tests
Temp: 80.5 ^
SG: 34 -
pH: 7.88 v
ORP: 132 ^
Ammonia: 0 -
Nitrite: 5 -
Nitrate: 20 -

I think the nitrite is converting to nitrate right now. The color of the solution still matches the 5 level on the card but seems a bit lighter then it has been before. Don't know if that's possible or just my brain all screwed up from sucking in ozone.

Just remembered I also mentioned in the previous post that I love spell check because in the previous post as well as this one I had more misspelled words then I have bubbles in my tank. I use iespell that's an add-in to IE.

[Aquarist007]

nice work--the pics are easy to follow

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15468539#post15468539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
the pics are easy to follow

Like a McDonalds menu?

[jason2459]

Things seem to be coming along nicely I think. Still doing water change every morning. Ozone is still at 5mg/h and will probably bump it up a bit after tomorrow's readings.

9pm Tests
Temp: 80.9
SG: 35
pH: 7.8
ORP: 146
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 5
Nitrate: 80

Very encouraged that the ammonia is still at 0. Also, happy that since the ammonia went down the nitrates have been slowly climbing back up. Might see the nitrates start going down to 0 at some point here. Probably with in the next week or two I suppose.

[jason2459]

I forgot how noisy the rio 1100 pump is on that coralife skimmer. In the old house it was in the dinning room but our new house is a lot smaller and we don't have a dinning room anymore. The tank is shoved in the back corner of the living room now. I think I'm going to look around for a used maxijet 1200, put a venturi on it, and mod the prop. I would like a bit less flow and I really like the maxijet 900 that I already have. Compact, very quiet, and very reliable. The maxijet 900 was suppling flow into the HOB refug but is now shoved in the lower back of the tank. The mj900 is at least 5 years old and probably a lot more. Could be as old as the tank who knows.

ORP actually went down slightly today so I'm going to give a little more ozone. I'll keep adjusting as the ORP stabilizes or goes down a bit and to a level I think is safe.

One of my little hitchhikers kicked the bucket. One of the blue leg hermits must not have been able to handle two nitrate spikes in a week. I took out it's carcass tonight. The snail is very boring. It's been on the same rock since I first found it. I keep thinking it's dead. I give it the benefit of the doubt and by the evening when I decide I'm going to pull it out it's move about an inch. Definitely defines the term slow as a snail. Don't know where the other blue leg is but I'll assume he's dead.

9pm Tests
Temp: 80.4
SG: 34
pH: 7.81
ORP: 134
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 1 or the lightest looking 5 I've had yet.
Nitrate: 40

[jason2459]

Decided to get one last purchase in before the baby and while I still have a little money left. Just call me Mini Paul B. I ordered a Vortex Diatom filter. Pretty much last major thing I'll be buying for the tank itself.

Should be getting a package in tomorrow that I'm really excited about. Should be between 6-7lbs. Wife and I were in for a weekly check up and said that they would induce her tomorrow. We'll be going in at 7:30am!


Small water change in the morning.

6:45pm Tests
Temp: 80.2
SG: 34
pH: 7.86
ORP: 133
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: .5
Nitrate: 40

Looks like my reading last night was a 1. Now I know what that looks like. Bumping ORP up a bit again tonight.

[Rae C.]

Good luck tomorrow to you and your wife, congratulations!

[Paul B]

Congrats Jason and good luck.
It gets easy in about 25 years

[jason2459]

Thanks you two.

Baby Brandon Daniel was born yesterday at 7:18pm at 6lbs 4oz.

http://i26.*******.com/2ag7vnm.jpg

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15494684#post15494684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Thanks you two.

Baby Brandon Daniel was born yesterday at 7:18pm at 6lbs 4oz.

http://i26.*******.com/2ag7vnm.jpg

congratualations----a wonderfull addition to your reef:D

:bounce1: :dance: :celeb3: :beer:

[jason2459]

lol Capn yeah. He's got himself an ocean theme room he'll be going into. Already have the room fully cycled months ago.

Did run home for a little bit today to check in on our doggy. Neighbor is letting him out for us but still wanted to check in, give him a treat and let him smell some clothes the baby was in. Have to acclimate him too with a long sniff method.

Did a quick little water change.

2pm Tests (glad I did these enough that I'm pretty quick with it now, plus the prob helps)

Temp: 79.5
SG: 34
pH: 7.98
ORP 126 (bumped the ozone up a little more again after this)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate 20

Also, it was very exciting to see some hair algae growing. Will get a CUC this week. Saw the snail up on the glass and saw the red leg hermit. He found a new home.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15495702#post15495702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
lol Capn yeah. He's got himself an ocean theme room he'll be going into. Already have the room fully cycled months ago.

Did run home for a little bit today to check in on our doggy. Neighbor is letting him out for us but still wanted to check in, give him a treat and let him smell some clothes the baby was in. Have to acclimate him too with a long sniff method.

Did a quick little water change.

2pm Tests (glad I did these enough that I'm pretty quick with it now, plus the prob helps)

Temp: 79.5
SG: 34
pH: 7.98
ORP 126 (bumped the ozone up a little more again after this)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate 20

Also, it was very exciting to see some hair algae growing. Will get a CUC this week. Saw the snail up on the glass and saw the red leg hermit. He found a new home.

:D :D

I would let your nitrate go right to zero before adding the cuc--its been cycling according to Hoyle so far so it should be zero in a week or so
"I love it when a plan comes together":lol:

[bobbyjeb]

baby is so sweet, so pretty. congrats!!!!

[bobbyjeb]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433201#post15433201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
[B]Thanks steve. I tried to make many caves and put some smaller rocks on the very bottom and propped up some of the bigger rocks.

Capn I certainly jumped straight to having some high nitrate by getting that water change water but I'm certainly not to worried about it right now. It'll go down.

I got the o-ring for the collection cup on the skimmer and got it going at half power right now to break it in.

http://i28.*******.com/2i8ur2t.jpg

WOW you have the same protien skimmer i have. Please can you tell me what it is, I need a manual for it so bad. I have never used a skimmer befor and not even sure if i am doing this right!
Mine does have a drain hole in the bottem of the cup. I run it to a five gallon water jug on the floor. What line are you running to the fudge?

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15495852#post15495852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
:D :D

I would let your nitrate go right to zero before adding the cuc--its been cycling according to Hoyle so far so it should be zero in a week or so
"I love it when a plan comes together":lol:

True. I was thinking last week my Nitrate should be down to 0 or close to it this week the way the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate were cycling up and down. It probably wouldn't be until next weekend I get down to a LFS out of town to get the CUC.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15495920#post15495920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bobbyjeb
[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433201#post15433201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
[B]Thanks steve. I tried to make many caves and put some smaller rocks on the very bottom and propped up some of the bigger rocks.

Capn I certainly jumped straight to having some high nitrate by getting that water change water but I'm certainly not to worried about it right now. It'll go down.

I got the o-ring for the collection cup on the skimmer and got it going at half power right now to break it in.

http://i28.*******.com/2i8ur2t.jpg

WOW you have the same protien skimmer i have. Please can you tell me what it is, I need a manual for it so bad. I have never used a skimmer befor and not even sure if i am doing this right!
Mine does have a drain hole in the bottem of the cup. I run it to a five gallon water jug on the floor. What line are you running to the fudge?

IMO it looks like a coral life protein skimmer

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15495920#post15495920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bobbyjeb

WOW you have the same protein skimmer i have. Please can you tell me what it is, I need a manual for it so bad. I have never used a skimmer before and not even sure if i am doing this right!
Mine does have a drain hole in the bottom of the cup. I run it to a five gallon water jug on the floor. What line are you running to the fudge?

I just have the outflow stuck right into the fuge. Using a vinyl tubing to get it to go about 1-2" under the water. It's a Coralife super skimmer. Sounds like you have either the 120 with a flat bottom or the 220 with an all acrylic rounded bottom. Both have a built in overflow connection.

Check out their site and can download the manual in pdf.
http://coralifesuperskimmer.com/

Also search this site as there are tons of people who have done all sorts of mods to them. Particularly you should check out using a gate valve for the outflow.

Edit: Just realized what line you were talking about. That gets shoved anywhere. Right now it's in the main tank. At times water splashes up out of it so I put that air line in to stop it from going on my floor.

[bobbyjeb]

thank-you, thats it!

[jason2459]

We are home now. It's an amazing and wonderful thing to have a new baby boy in the house.

The hair algae in the tank is getting along fine. Some thin strands are about an inch but most is still 1/2" or less still.

No water change today. Getting the brute mixing right now for the next weeks worth of water change. Once I have that down to 0/0/0 I'll reduce the water changes to once a week or two. Still planning on eventually getting to once a month or two in the long run.

6:30pm Tests
Temp: 79.5
SG: 34
pH: 7.9
ORP: 118
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20

[jason2459]

Cycle is coming along very nicely now. I have a few 6in long green strands and a bunch of small fern like things growing around the tank along with some new brownish spots and filaments.

Taking off work the next two weeks to help the wife recover. So far the days have been Poop,Pee,Eat,Poop,Sleep,Poop,Sleep,Eat,Pee,Poop,Eat,Poop,Pee,Poop,Eat,Sleep...etc. Baby must take after me.

Small water change in the morning. Got the MaxiJet 1200 rigid up to the skimmer. Much smaller and quieter then the Rio. Little less flow which is good for the refuge but performing so far just as well. I'll look into doing a mesh mod on it.

7:40pm Tests
Temp: 79.5
SG: 35
pH 7.9
ORP: 120
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20

[Paul B]

Jason, these are the good years. Wait 15 years, then you will wish for these days. After age 15 you will need another 10 years or so to recover.
Mine is now 30 and we are just beginning to relax

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15509000#post15509000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Jason, these are the good years. Wait 15 years, then you will wish for these days. After age 15 you will need another 10 years or so to recover.
Mine is now 30 and we are just beginning to relax

then the grandkids start coming and you are doing it all over again :lol:

[jason2459]

LOL


Paul I'm certainly enjoying my days off here. Brandon is awesome. Just love watching all his different little expressions. Not looking forward to the rebellious years and hoping he's not getting into to much trouble.

Capn. Those times are great as then you can just give the kids back. Get all the benefits of spoiling them and not having to worry about the repercussions. :)

[Paul B]

Thats a fantastic looking boy you've got there jason.

The rebellous years is part of life which we all went through. I know I must have been a horror during those years.
But it's all worth it. My daughter now is a beautiful, respectful 30 year old who even helps me tie up the boat.
A few years ago it was a different story. But your at the best time in your life now, enjoy it, it whizzes by.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/Boat016.jpg

[jason2459]

Paul your daughter definitely takes after your wife and not you. :)
You're a very lucky man and very well deserved for a life time of hard work.

[Paul B]

Thank you Jason, and yes, thank God she takes after my wife and not me. I don't want a bald pot bellied daughter.

[jason2459]

This week is going by way to fast. Not looking forward to having to go back to work after next week.

Small water change yesterday and today. No testing yesterday.

1:30pm Tests
Temp: 78.8
SG: 34
pH: 7.83
ORP: 126
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20

Have the Ozone at 50%(25mg/h) now and ORP really is not budging. Nitrate is still hanging at 20. From what I've been reading on this site it's either being introduced by my crappy IO reefcrystals, leaching out into my water from my Commercial Brute mixing container(garbage can), my RUGF is a nitrate factory, or all of the above... I should just give up now.

[Paul B]

my RUGF is a nitrate factory

Excuse me! Impossable, unless of course it is new

[bobbyjeb]

The eat, sleep, poop cycle gets...different. It will be eat, sleep,poop,need money,need ride, sign this, and the best..."Mom, look what I got for free! Can we keep him, I promise i will take care of him....And you will, and he won't, and its still the best ride of all!!!

And i really like your thread. Thank-you I get alot of good info. The pics make all the difference.

[jason2459]

Paul I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I better schedule a cleaning in 25 years and it should be close to cycled in about 40 years.


Bobbyjeb, Glad to here someone is getting something out of this.

[jason2459]

The algae farm is growing nicely. The zombie snail is still alive I think. Never see him move but he's always in a different spot from day to day. Found the mystery crab this morning grazing and a blue leg crab. So, I either have a tank of zombie's and have the making of the next pet cemetery or I had two blue leg hermits in there and only thought I had one. The carcass was meaty so I know it wasn't just the little guy shedding.

4pm Tests
Temp: 79.9
SG: 34
pH: 7.92
ORP: 228
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20

ORP finally budged. I didn't change anything on it since it hit 50% which was earlier in the week.

[jason2459]

Got a little water change in this morning again. Probably wont get a chance to do a full slew of tests until Sunday. Getting the house ready for visitors. Looks like we're going to have the next 2000000 weekends taken up with family coming to stay with us to see our new addition.

Did get a new addition to the tank today. The wife was going stir crazy and decided to get out of the house. She ended up at Petco to get our pup some rawhides and got talked into getting a Scarlet Skunk Cleaner shrimp and a Bicolor Blenny. She told the person there that our tank is new and has this green algae stuff everywhere. The person said the shrimp will help pick up small particles to reduce future algae and the fish will eat up the algae already there. :rolleyes:

I do love blennies and was on my original list of desired fish but since that list I have of course changed my mind a million times and decided on a different blenny. Well, I guess it's right back on.

Already acclimated via a drip for about an hour in a bucket with both the fish and shrimp in there. Shrimp is already up in a cave and can't see it and the blenny has found several small holes he can wedge himself in and out of. Fun to watch. Will get a picture of them later when I don't have a sleeping baby on my chest.

2pm Quick Hanna Probe tests. (I absolutely love this thing.)
Temp: 79.8
pH: 7.95
ORP: 242

[jason2459]

Here's some recent shots.

FTS
http://i31.*******.com/qnky1k.jpg

Here's the new maxijet 1200 replacing the bigger and noisier rio.
http://i30.*******.com/2zz8b6c.jpg

Cleaner Shrimp
http://i28.*******.com/e7z57n.jpg

My dismal attempt to catch the camera shy blenny.
http://i26.*******.com/znmntu.jpg

http://i26.*******.com/ippggj.jpg

http://i30.*******.com/28r2o9k.jpg

http://i29.*******.com/o85fnn.jpg

[jason2459]

BTW, I officially have a tank from the dead. I present to you Frankenskimmer.

I now have a sea clone maxijet 1200 pump, coralife super skimmer 65 body, drilled out overflow, and Lee's berlin 3" wood stone. You know I decided on the three BEST skimmers out there to make one ultimate best every skimmer in the world.

This final step of the air stone came about out of laziness and less maintenance. I had some foam in the refug to remove the microbubbles. Still had a few getting into the tank and realized I really didn't want to clean the foam every week because heaven forbid I ANOTHER nitrate factory going on. Instead of the air going into the pump the pump is just pumping water and using the whisper air pump to push air/ozone right into the stone into the skimmer. This allows the air bubbles to go straight up and never travels all the way down to where the water goes out of the skimmer. No micro bubbles and no foam necessary now. Just have to replace the air stone every couple months or so.


Has a small cost to it but much less maintenance. Worth it in my book. Plus the foaming output is a LOT more. Here's some pics to show what I'm talking about.

http://i30.*******.com/35358vp.jpg

http://i31.*******.com/2djp3eu.jpg

http://i32.*******.com/33pgims.jpg

[jason2459]

Hair algae is absolutely loving my tank. It's in nice thick mats all over the place. Though I'm starting to see small peaces floating around. Either that's a good thing and it will be going away or it's just spreading even more.

The cleaner shrimp is pretty cool. I went into the tank to clean off the glass and he attacked my hand the entire time. I couldn't keep him off.

http://i28.*******.com/oh3ae8.jpg

http://i25.*******.com/wmo74.jpg

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=30lgj0p&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=30lgj0p&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>


Tests from last night 7:30pm
Temp: 78.6
SG: 34
pH: 7.93
ORP: 148
Ammonia:0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

Nitrates finally moved down. It's not 0 but close enough for me to be happy. So, I'm assuming the algae is starting to break up.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15550732#post15550732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Hair algae is absolutely loving my tank. It's in nice thick mats all over the place. Though I'm starting to see small peaces floating around. Either that's a good thing and it will be going away or it's just spreading even more.

The cleaner shrimp is pretty cool. I went into the tank to clean off the glass and he attacked my hand the entire time. I couldn't keep him off.

http://i28.*******.com/oh3ae8.jpg

http://i25.*******.com/wmo74.jpg

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=30lgj0p&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=30lgj0p&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>


Tests from last night 7:30pm
Temp: 78.6
SG: 34
pH: 7.93
ORP: 148
Ammonia:0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

Nitrates finally moved down. It's not 0 but close enough for me to be happy. So, I'm assuming the algae is starting to break up.

algae cycles too along with nitrates (and phosphates). As your live rock fully cures which could take a few months and the levels of nitrates and phosphates fall to zero then the algae will die off also. IMO the trick right now is to let it grow in places (other then on the live rock) because it is contributing to its own demise by consuming the nitrates and phosphates.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15550946#post15550946 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
algae cycles too along with nitrates (and phosphates). As your live rock fully cures which could take a few months and the levels of nitrates and phosphates fall to zero then the algae will die off also. IMO the trick right now is to let it grow in places (other then on the live rock) because it is contributing to its own demise by consuming the nitrates and phosphates.

Maybe I should start dosing cap'n morgans. I just don't get people throwing in all these chemicals and additives and trying to speed things up. I think the algae looks pretty neat. Though they are producing quite a bit of bubbles in the tank.


7pm Tests
Temp: 80.7
SG: 34
pH: 8
ORP: 170
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15552728#post15552728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Maybe I should start dosing cap'n morgans. I just don't get people throwing in all these chemicals and additives and trying to speed things up. I think the algae looks pretty neat. Though they are producing quite a bit of bubbles in the tank.


7pm Tests
Temp: 80.7
SG: 34
pH: 8
ORP: 170
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

I used to keep algae in the tank simply to help with nitrates and phosphates---that was before my refugiums---now I let any kind of algae grow in there.

[Rae C.]

[B]

The cleaner shrimp is pretty cool. I went into the tank to clean off the glass and he attacked my hand the entire time. I couldn't keep him off. [B]


Maybe it's saying you need to wash your hands next time ;)

I just bought a cleaner shrimp too but I haven't seen him since I let him loose last week. I hope he's just busy in the rocks in back.

[jason2459]

Cap'n that's the plan here too. Have the HOB refug and I really don't care what's going to grow back there. I do have some chaeto, gracliareiaoruaous (sp?), and some live rock. I just pulled the chaeto apart and put a small ball in the main tank for now too.

Rae that cleaner shrimp was pretty much hidden in a cave for the first few days but he's been super busy around the tank since then. Could be because I don't have any fish I need to feed yet so he's savaging everything he can.

But yeah, I probably should keep my hands a little cleaner. LOL He did give me a good manicure though.

Just ordered another 200g salt mix box of IO RC. The reviews on this site has just been SO positive about it recently. Also, added in a phosphate test kit for the heck of it. I think I'll start doing water changes and full tests weekly instead of daily now that the nitrates have calmed down.

I think my LFG will be going to pick up some fish in about 3-4 weeks or so. I'll probably see if he can pick me up a fish or two. I did break down and ordered a CUC today as well from reef cleaners. Just got 10 cerith snails and 10 nerite snails. Should be here pretty quickly.

[jason2459]

Water seems to be getting very clear looking now. Still has the microbubbles from the algae being flung all over the tank. I think the ozone is really helping with the clarity though. I'm not running any carbon or any other filtration besides the RUGF but I doubt that's it.

Probe tests 7pm
Temp: 80.5
pH: 8.11
ORP: 159

I'm really curious why the ORP hasn't gone up. I did bump the ozonizer to 75% yesterday just to see what would happen and the ORP went down a bit. I was scared I'd have to really watch it closely to make sure it didn't go over like 400 and kept reading that it was highly suggested to get the digital ozonizer with controller or certain disaster would happen. Glad I didn't waste the money on that. Just an easy to adjust dial for me and a hand held probe.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15559406#post15559406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Water seems to be getting very clear looking now. Still has the microbubbles from the algae being flung all over the tank. I think the ozone is really helping with the clarity though. I'm not running any carbon or any other filtration besides the RUGF but I doubt that's it.

Probe tests 7pm
Temp: 80.5
pH: 8.11
ORP: 159

I'm really curious why the ORP hasn't gone up. I did bump the ozonizer to 75% yesterday just to see what would happen and the ORP went down a bit. I was scared I'd have to really watch it closely to make sure it didn't go over like 400 and kept reading that it was highly suggested to get the digital ozonizer with controller or certain disaster would happen. Glad I didn't waste the money on that. Just an easy to adjust dial for me and a hand held probe.

PaulB may be able to help you on ozonizers

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15560288#post15560288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
PaulB may be able to help you on ozonizers

I might have to pop over and ask. It might have to do with the tank cycling and/or the large amount of algae right now. I was giong to wait and see what happens after the initial cycling is over.

[Paul B]

As long as there are organics like dying algae, ozone is being used up. Your orp will not go up until all that is oxidized.
My ORP is reading 371. I have no idea if that is correct but I add 100mg of ozone constantly. I always use the thing cranked up as high as I could. It has been like that forever so I don't think it is harmful. My water returns to the tank over a five foot algae tray so there is no chance of any residual ozone going into the tank. The controller goes up to 400 but it has never reached that.
I don't really pay much attention to it, it is just there.
Kind of like Waterkeper

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15561081#post15561081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
As long as there are organics like dying algae, ozone is being used up. Your orp will not go up until all that is oxidized.
My ORP is reading 371. I have no idea if that is correct but I add 100mg of ozone constantly. I always use the thing cranked up as high as I could. It has been like that forever so I don't think it is harmful. My water returns to the tank over a five foot algae tray so there is no chance of any residual ozone going into the tank. The controller goes up to 400 but it has never reached that.
I don't really pay much attention to it, it is just there.
Kind of like Waterkeper

:lol:

why did you find it necessary to use ozone in the first place?

[Paul B]

It is not necessary, I just like it

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15564994#post15564994 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
It is not necessary, I just like it

are we talking about ozone here:confused: :D

Seriously, what are the reasons for adopting the use of ozone in a tank---I'm ozone illerate.

[Paul B]

Ozone is the secret. It is one of the best things you can supply. It oxidizes anything organic and makes the water as pure as it can be. It raises the ORP which is the ability of the water to handle wastes. Go for it.

[jason2459]

Well, using the ozone really helped my skimmer work better then it did before not using it. I was starting to get some good skimmate without much of a bioload at all. In fact since using the air stone the skimmer has worked even better. Started about two weeks ago with some light to dark tea with the skimmer running wet. About a week ago adding the air stone it went completely black with thick film forming.

The past few days though it's turned a really dark green and the water in the tank is super polished looking. I think the GHA is starting to kill itself and the ozone is kicking in to polish the water even though the ORP keeps dropping again after peaking a week or so ago up in the 200's. The GHA is also starting to look brownish. I'm not sure what it's suppose to look like when it dies off. I'm also seeing more and more strands in the water column.

7:30p Quick Probe Tests

Temp: 80.3
pH: 8.19
ORP: 114

[Aquarist007]

Isn't running phosban and carbon reactors accomplishing the same thing with alot less problems?

[jason2459]

Have no idea Cap'n and hope Paul B steps in again. So far in my experience it seems to be doing the same as the set up I had before with the canister filter (w/ carbon and poly floss filter pad) and UV turbo twist. Benefit to me is that I don't have to break down the canister filter every week, cost of replacing media, cost of replacing UV bulbs, increased skimmer production, and a lot less equipment. Turns my skimmer into a 3-in-1 device. Skimmer/Ozone reactor/refuge prefilter. Which completely meets my goals for this tank which is easy low maintenances and low running costs.

Planned maintenance in the future
Run mag float on glass daily and razor as needed ((Possibly the most work I'll have to do. )

Clean skimmer collection cup/bucket as needed.

Fill ATO container once a week and possibly add kalk to it down the road once I start getting some corals. I might not even have to do that.

Check parameters every 2-3 weeks. Probe checks probably weekly or as I feel like it just because it's quick and easy.

3-6 week water changes depending on parameters (day before have ro/di fill mixing container and takes about 3m to perform change the next day. Probably a total of 5-10m of hands on work.)

Clean water pumps monthly. (Or at least I should but will probably be really bad about this and remember to do it about once a year.)

Replace air stone every 2-3 months. (Probably most expensive long term maintenance over time. $7 for two 3" wood stones locally.)

Diatom Filter every 3-4 months.

Replace Ozonizer and Diatom filter every 10-20 years.

Clean RUGF in 25 years :) lol


I think that's about it. Pretty easy and low cost. Almost forgot to mention that I went into a pool store today that happens to only be about three blocks away from me and got a bag of diatomite (DE) powder. Went in and asked if they had any diatom filter powder and the the guy called someone else there to bring up a bag of it for me. I then asked how much it was going to be and he told me $39!!!! I was about to say hell no I'm not paying $39 for a small bag of this stuff. Well, just before I said no way a guy comes in with this HUGE 50lbs bag of the stuff. I said okay. This will last for freaking ever.

[Paul B]

Isn't running phosban and carbon reactors accomplishing the same thing with alot less problems?

Not at all. Phosban is for phosphate but ozone will not remove phosphate. Ozone only removes organics like fish poop, food and all DOCs (disolved organic carbons)
OK being I am not Waterkeeper I have to quote from my aquarium chemistry book that was written before most of you were born.

"Ozone is very effective because the water is not being contaminated by chemicals. Since it raises the oxidation threshold of the water to it's limit, the highest potential.
Through Ozonation we reach the values which are otherwize only found in the purest waters on earth, the mountain brook and coral reef. All of the reducing compounds are oxidized at the quickest speed. Undesirable intermediate compounds, which often disturb the water for an uncomfortable long time and are the cause of critical complications, are soon made non-toxic, and the highly reductive reducing agents originating from many processes of decomposition and the very dangerous bacterial toxins are prevented from developing at all.
In other words, dangerous compounds do not develop.

Also Capn, the toxins that most corals use for defense will stay in the water for a long time unless removed. We can't measure these compounds but they are toxic to many corals.
The slime that sloughs off corals (and fish) is also oxidized.
Oxone also does not have to be maintained like carbon, it keeps working. I have used carbon as long as I have salt water and feel it is a very important thing to have.

Another interesting fact I have found in this book, which I have always agreed with

"It is a fact that seawater with green algae in it is surprisingly stable"

[jason2459]

Got a quick probe test in before the next wave of company gets here.

12:30p
Temp: 78.9
pH: 7.88
ORP: 159

I thought the hair algae was going away but it looks like my blenny is doing some house keeping himself. He keeps picking at the base and spitting the algae onto the ground. I was going to work on it on Sunday when the company left and get it off the rocks but looks like my blenny is doing it for me.

[reeferoo]

What an excellent thread. Subscribed for sure. Way to follow PaulB! Really love the stand and the baby is so cuuute!

Can't wait to watch this tank grow and mature

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15567374#post15567374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Not at all. Phosban is for phosphate but ozone will not remove phosphate. Ozone only removes organics like fish poop, food and all DOCs (disolved organic carbons)
OK being I am not Waterkeeper I have to quote from my aquarium chemistry book that was written before most of you were born.

"Ozone is very effective because the water is not being contaminated by chemicals. Since it raises the oxidation threshold of the water to it's limit, the highest potential.
Through Ozonation we reach the values which are otherwize only found in the purest waters on earth, the mountain brook and coral reef. All of the reducing compounds are oxidized at the quickest speed. Undesirable intermediate compounds, which often disturb the water for an uncomfortable long time and are the cause of critical complications, are soon made non-toxic, and the highly reductive reducing agents originating from many processes of decomposition and the very dangerous bacterial toxins are prevented from developing at all.
In other words, dangerous compounds do not develop.

Also Capn, the toxins that most corals use for defense will stay in the water for a long time unless removed. We can't measure these compounds but they are toxic to many corals.
The slime that sloughs off corals (and fish) is also oxidized.
Oxone also does not have to be maintained like carbon, it keeps working. I have used carbon as long as I have salt water and feel it is a very important thing to have.

Another interesting fact I have found in this book, which I have always agreed with

"It is a fact that seawater with green algae in it is surprisingly stable"

okay Paul I get it:D I was under the impression that carbon also removed coral toxins etc.
I just don't know if you need to run both carbon and ozone if ozone is doing a similar job??

[jason2459]

Good questions cap'n. I'm not currently running carbon but do have some in case I need it for some reason. I do plan on blending some up and adding with DE in the diatom filter when I use it though.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15569322#post15569322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reeferoo
What an excellent thread. Subscribed for sure. Way to follow PaulB! Really love the stand and the baby is so cuuute!

Can't wait to watch this tank grow and mature

Thanks for following reeferoo. Hope you get something out of it. I've learned a lot on this site so far.

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15567374#post15567374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
OK being I am not Waterkeeper I have to quote from my aquarium chemistry book that was written before most of you were born.
And he knows his O₃ by golly. :D

But so does Randy Holmes-Fraley and since he is such a fan has written
Ozone in the Reef Aquarium, Part ! (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part II (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part III (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php)
which covers it better than most books and saves me a ton of writing. ;)

Almost forgot- ORP in the Reef Aquarium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.php)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15570777#post15570777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
And he knows his O₃ by golly. :D

But so does Randy Holmes-Fraley and since he is such a fan has written
Ozone in the Reef Aquarium, Part ! (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part II (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part III (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php)
which covers it better than most books and saves me a ton of writing. ;)

Almost forgot- ORP in the Reef Aquarium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.php)

darn it WK I hate reading----aquarium articles are boring---except PaulB's and yours of course;)

[WaterKeeper]

Well setting up an automated ozonator system is a fairly steep investment and done wrong it can create problems for the tank and even possibly people living in the house. Randy tells how to do it right so it is worth a little time doing a some homework.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15570648#post15570648 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Good questions cap'n. I'm not currently running carbon but do have some in case I need it for some reason. I do plan on blending some up and adding with DE in the diatom filter when I use it though.

Its actually a good idea to run both\

"Ozone also has a dark side. When reacted with seawater, ozone produces a variety of highly oxidized halogens such as BrOH and BrO3-. If the ozone produced oxidants are not largely removed with activated carbon, they may enter the aquarium and be hazards to the most sensitive organisms in the aquarium (which are likely eggs or early stage larvae)."

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

thanks for the link wk;)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15571357#post15571357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Well setting up an automated ozonator system is a fairly steep investment and done wrong it can create problems for the tank and even possibly people living in the house. Randy tells how to do it right so it is worth a little time doing a some homework.

just joking with you WK---reading the articles as we speak:D

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15570777#post15570777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
And he knows his O₃ by golly. :D

But so does Randy Holmes-Fraley and since he is such a fan has written
Ozone in the Reef Aquarium, Part ! (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part II (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php)
Ozone Part III (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php)
which covers it better than most books and saves me a ton of writing. ;)

Almost forgot- ORP in the Reef Aquarium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.php)


Those two were one of the first few articles I read on here even before I ran into Paul B's thread. I forgot about that second one on ORP so thanks for the links.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15571429#post15571429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Its actually a good idea to run both\

"Ozone also has a dark side. When reacted with seawater, ozone produces a variety of highly oxidized halogens such as BrOH and BrO3-. If the ozone produced oxidants are not largely removed with activated carbon, they may enter the aquarium and be hazards to the most sensitive organisms in the aquarium (which are likely eggs or early stage larvae)."

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

thanks for the link wk;)

I started with some carbon in the refug where it was getting fed from the skimmer. After I got couple different macro algae back there I took the carbon out to see what would happen. So far both the chaeto and grac. have both been growing. I should get an actual residual ozone test kit to see how much is back there and if any at all is making it into the main tank. I probably should throw in some carbon back there as eventually I need pods to reproduce back there. I'm sure the residual ozone would probably effect them more then anything else. I guess I see this tank much like Paul B does with his, a long term experiment. I like the challenge and see what happens when something changes. I have always found the smallest things to be some of the most interesting. I remember back in the Key's growing up I would always scoop up mud around the mangroves and try and see all the little living things going on in there.

BTW, I have moved the ozonizer back to 50% as there didn't seem to be much of a difference and I do feel safer at that level and was the planned level to be at in the beginning. I probably wont touch it again until after the initial cycle is finally finished. Probably be about another month or so. I do think the GHA growth has peaked. BTW, I have identified the type of GHA as the ever so lovely firn like bryopsis which is probably why the Blenny doesn't want to eat it but ever so helpfully is cleaning off my rock work.

[Paul B]

I used to run carbon along with my ozonizer like was always thought to be necessary but now I am spiting Waterkeeper and not using any carbon :p
As was said my tank is an experiment and I have been running ozone for the entire time my tank was set up. Lately I do not run much carbon but I do run the return water through an algae trough. I don't know if that has any effects on anything that the ozone is manufacturing but if it has not happened by now, I doubt it will happen soon.
I have a problem with running too much carbon although I do run it occasionally. It seems I spend a lot of time collect NSW and speaking of the benefits so I would rather not remove some of the good qualities of the NSW with carbon. When I run carbon, I do so before a water change to eliminate substances that ozone will not remove. Then after I put in NSW I want those qualities to stay in the tank for a while.
I don't know if that makes any sence but I used to run much more carbon and I don't see any difference. I keep the stuff on hand in case the water had an odor or a color I don't like. Sometimes I do have to run my NSW through it if I collect it in the Sound and it looks funky like my socks :eek1:
I keep my ozonator cranked up as high as it will go. If there is anything in the water at all, ozone will be used up. But then I have that 5' algae trough. Ozone has no chance to get through that being it is filled with all sorts of algae even some cyano. Any residual ozone making it to there would be used up instantly in the process of oxidizing algae which of course is organic.
I think my system of large amounts of Ozone
along with the algae trough (and of course a RUGF) is the best way to go. After all with 40 years of experimenting I think I got it right. It may all be BS but it is what it is and doesn't just work, it works with hardly any maintenance. I need a lot of time to take ladies out on the boat and don't have time to change carbon. ;)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15573200#post15573200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I used to run carbon along with my ozonizer like was always thought to be necessary but now I am spiting Waterkeeper and not using any carbon :p
As was said my tank is an experiment and I have been running ozone for the entire time my tank was set up. Lately I do not run much carbon but I do run the return water through an algae trough. I don't know if that has any effects on anything that the ozone is manufacturing but if it has not happened by now, I doubt it will happen soon.
I have a problem with running too much carbon although I do run it occasionally. It seems I spend a lot of time collect NSW and speaking of the benefits so I would rather not remove some of the good qualities of the NSW with carbon. When I run carbon, I do so before a water change to eliminate substances that ozone will not remove. Then after I put in NSW I want those qualities to stay in the tank for a while.
I don't know if that makes any sence but I used to run much more carbon and I don't see any difference. I keep the stuff on hand in case the water had an odor or a color I don't like. Sometimes I do have to run my NSW through it if I collect it in the Sound and it looks funky like my socks :eek1:
I keep my ozonator cranked up as high as it will go. If there is anything in the water at all, ozone will be used up. But then I have that 5' algae trough. Ozone has no chance to get through that being it is filled with all sorts of algae even some cyano. Any residual ozone making it to there would be used up instantly in the process of oxidizing algae which of course is organic.
I think my system of large amounts of Ozone
along with the algae trough (and of course a RUGF) is the best way to go. After all with 40 years of experimenting I think I got it right. It may all be BS but it is what it is and doesn't just work, it works with hardly any maintenance. I need a lot of time to take ladies out on the boat and don't have time to change carbon. ;)

Of course I agree with you and soak up everything you say like a Manhatten sponge.
I still have a hard time figuring out what balance of organics I need in the water since my display tank is totally lps corals but at the same time 4 anemonies. I gradually leaning toward more anemonies too.
I did do a 30 percent water change the other day but that was the first since June. As I have stated before the corals have done beautifully.
I have always run carbon 24/7 as I feel it does a good job of getting rid of coral toxins esp with the leathers that I have in my tank.
I have an oversized skimmer, a remote deep sand bed and two refugiums.
Am a really going to see what advantage in running ozone in my system.

BTW
Randy states the other reason for running carbon along with ozone is for your protection as it can absorb ozone before escaping to the atmosphere

[Paul B]

I still have a hard time figuring out what balance of organics I need in the water since my display tank is totally lps

I don't understand this. You don't need any organics in your water. Organics is what you are trying to remove.


Randy states the other reason for running carbon along with ozone is for your protection as it can absorb ozone before escaping to the atmosphere

Randy knows that ozone smells and is very easy to tell if it is escaping to the atmosphere. If my air line comes off I can tell immediately when I go downstairs to where my tank is. It smells nice and clean but I can easily smell the ozone. If you design the system correctly and inject ozone into a skimmer large enough to utilize it correctly, there will be no free ozone left. The stuff works so well that it turns into ordinary oxygen as soon as it encounters anything organic and in a fish tank there are organics all over the place especially a tank such as you have with all of those large tangs.

[WaterKeeper]

Right on about the smell but not everybody can smell it. It seems that a small percentage of people, for some reason or the other, are unable to detect it even at fairly high concentrations. Although the chance is remote, they could encounter some lung damage if they were to place their nose directly over a skimmer that was venting ozone into the air at the discharge. I have never heard of anyone being harmed by using it but I figured I throw in the safety warning to cover my behind. Kind of like the warning on lighters that tell you it contains a flammable gas. ;)

[Paul B]

they could encounter some lung damage if they were to place their nose directly over a skimmer

OK people you heard WK, If you are looking for a place to put your nose, find someplace else besides the top of the skimmer like maybe the gas range.
Good advice, sometimes I find my Mother N Law sleeping with her nose right on the top of the skimmer.

Also don't use the ozone hose to clean wax out of your ears or burn the hairs out of your nose.
Also if you can't smell Ozone, find a different hobby, maybe picking up cigarette butts or collecting rare pictures of Paris Hilton
with clothes on.
:rolleyes:

Kind of like the warning on lighters that tell you it contains a flammable gas.

Yes and the directions on shampoo bottles. and the little packet that comes in camera's that says "do not eat" Before they started putting those warning labels on there, I used to make sandwiches out of those things.
And whatever you do, don't take those labels off of furnature that says "Do Not Remove This Tag Under Penalty Of the Law" because the tag police will come after you, they work with the tang police. :smokin:

[WaterKeeper]

Exactly, Paul has learned something over the years. :D

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15573596#post15573596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I don't understand this. You don't need any organics in your water. Organics is what you are trying to remove.



The lps coral guys have stated that some lps corals prefer a "dirtier"water then sps corals. I guess I thought dirtier meant more organically laden.

[WaterKeeper]

Scott, they are talking about particulate matter not dissolved organics. Ozone only attacks dissolved materials and corals do not absorb those directly. They do capture particles that pass by and I think that is what the lps people are talking about.

[johnike]

<a href=showthread.php?Os=&postid=15573965#post15573965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
OK people you heard WK, If you are looking for a place to put your nose, find someplace else besides the top of the skimmer like maybe the gas range.
Good advice, sometimes I find my Mother N Law sleeping with her nose right on the top of the skimmer.

Also don't use the ozone hose to clean wax out of your ears or burn the hairs out of your nose.
Also if you can't smell Ozone, find a different hobby, maybe picking up cigarette butts or collecting rare pictures of Paris Hilton
with clothes on.
:rolleyes:



Yes and the directions on shampoo bottles. and the little packet that comes in camera's that says "do not eat" Before they started putting those warning labels on there, I used to make sandwiches out of those things.
And whatever you do, don't take those labels off of furnature that says "Do Not Remove This Tag Under Penalty Of the Law" because the tag police will come after you, they work with the tang police. :smokin: Or the baby on the side of a bucket of salt.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15574144#post15574144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Scott, they are talking about particulate matter not dissolved organics. Ozone only attacks dissolved materials and corals do not absorb those directly. They do capture particles that pass by and I think that is what the lps people are talking about.

thanks WK---so there are very little useful organics in a tank?

[Aquarist007]

Jason---how are you setup to run ozone?

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15574467#post15574467 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Jason---how are you setup to run ozone?


My final setup:

maxijet 900 in aquarium ---> skimmer ---> refugium

whisper 60 airpump full open w/ silicone air line ---> ozonizer
---> ozone safe one way check valve ---> 3" wood airstone placed through the top of the skimmer down into the middle of the skimmer body. Should be some pictures abovewith the air stone.


Edit: just quoted the post below with the airstone setup.

Got the salt and phosphate test kit in and did a quick test.

12:15pm Tests (actinic lighting just turned on at 12)
Temp: 79.6
SG: 34
pH: 7.8
ORP: 164
Nitrate: 0 !!!!! WOOP !!!
Phosphate: 0

Algae should start going way at some point here.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15531829#post15531829 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
BTW, I officially have a tank from the dead. I present to you Frankenskimmer.

I now have a sea clone maxijet 1200 pump, coralife super skimmer 65 body, drilled out overflow, and Lee's berlin 3" wood stone. You know I decided on the three BEST skimmers out there to make one ultimate best every skimmer in the world.

This final step of the air stone came about out of laziness and less maintenance. I had some foam in the refug to remove the microbubbles. Still had a few getting into the tank and realized I really didn't want to clean the foam every week because heaven forbid I ANOTHER nitrate factory going on. Instead of the air going into the pump the pump is just pumping water and using the whisper air pump to push air/ozone right into the stone into the skimmer. This allows the air bubbles to go straight up and never travels all the way down to where the water goes out of the skimmer. No micro bubbles and no foam necessary now. Just have to replace the air stone every couple months or so.


Has a small cost to it but much less maintenance. Worth it in my book. Plus the foaming output is a LOT more. Here's some pics to show what I'm talking about.

http://i30.*******.com/35358vp.jpg

http://i31.*******.com/2djp3eu.jpg

http://i32.*******.com/33pgims.jpg

[dspirito]

Excellent job so far! I really love how you refinished the original setup like a new beginning, very symbolic! The seahorse handles are definite keepers as well.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15577844#post15577844 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dspirito
Excellent job so far! I really love how you refinished the original setup like a new beginning, very symbolic! The seahorse handles are definite keepers as well.

Thanks a lot. It's definitly a new beginning and I've learned a whole lot more this time around since finding this site. Never had to actually start up a new tank as the old tank was already established for many years before I got it. So, I didn't know what to do or what to expect. Patience and time are key I found out and don't over react to anything. I've never had hair algae or really any kind of algae before so I would have probably freaked out if I didn't find this site and read everything I could on new tank setups.

I do love those seahorse handles. Nice solid brass.

[jason2459]

BTW, that GHA is getting browner and browner. Mainly right down the center of it and spreading out more and more. Plus I think I had a diatom bloom over the weekend as I did notice a brown coating on areas that didn't have algae covering it but it's almost all gone now.

[jason2459]

Here's some visual aids to what I've been talking about.

The brownish center is spreading out nicely on most all of the algae in there now. Used ot be all light green.

http://i30.*******.com/sxeoug.jpg

Here's about a day of skimmer production. Flash seems to have lightened up the liquid. In person it looks darker.

http://i29.*******.com/2s14y8i.jpg

[jason2459]

Little closer without flash

http://i29.*******.com/24bn583.jpg

[jason2459]

Quick probe test tonight.

7:30pm
Temp: 80.6
pH: 8.26
ORP: 186

Just noticed a couple small tuffs of green algae I had on one rock, only place I've seen them too, is getting white tips on the top. I find this really interesting to see the tank cycle like this.

Sorry the pic is blury. Wish I had a digital SLR and manual focus.
http://i30.*******.com/2djwgwi.jpg


The unknown crab looks like a red leg. He's gotten fat and another new home.

http://i27.*******.com/20a4029.jpg

[jason2459]

One of the florida cerith snails I got from reefcleaners seems to have an identity problem.

Seems like he wants to be a reindeer.

http://i25.*******.com/anyljk.jpg

[jhawkor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15587731#post15587731 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
One of the florida cerith snails I got from reefcleaners seems to have an identity problem.

Seems like he wants to be a reindeer.

http://i25.*******.com/anyljk.jpg
Haha I got one from reefcleaners like that too. My tang ate it off him though:p

[WaterKeeper]

Your Tang ate Sponge Bob! :eek1:

:D

[Metal Man 1221]

wow thats really a bummer, flood damage is probably the worst to come by other than fire

it flooded pretty bad in Fargo ND this year, lucky all the dikes held up

but that is a really nice stand
nice job on the recovery

[jason2459]

Thanks Metal Man. I remember ND all over the news here for that flooding earlier this spring.

Noticed this evening the GHA getting greener but this time a light wispy green and kind of a poofy thin strands on top. I think it's starving. But what do I know it could be splitting off and spawning some more. Only time will tell over the next week or so.

Decided to do a full set of tests.
8:15p
Temp: 82.5
SG: 33
pH: 8.28
ORP: 150
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0

I don't think I really want the GHA to just disappear over night that's for sure. I think if that were to happen I'll probably get a good Nitrate spike and who know what else. Just hope it slowly goes away and doesn't just implode. If I notice it drastically disappearing I'll run the diatom filter with some carbon mixed in with the DE.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15594248#post15594248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Thanks Metal Man. I remember ND all over the news here for that flooding earlier this spring.

Noticed this evening the GHA getting greener but this time a light wispy green and kind of a poofy thin strands on top. I think it's starving. But what do I know it could be splitting off and spawning some more. Only time will tell over the next week or so.

Decided to do a full set of tests.
8:15p
Temp: 82.5
SG: 33
pH: 8.28
ORP: 150
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0

I don't think I really want the GHA to just disappear over night that's for sure. I think if that were to happen I'll probably get a good Nitrate spike and who know what else. Just hope it slowly goes away and doesn't just implode. If I notice it drastically disappearing I'll run the diatom filter with some carbon mixed in with the DE.
keep blasting the rock with a turkey baster and driving away the food for the algae

why the really low orp value?

[jason2459]

I haven't feed the tank anything yet. I've also stopped the every day water changes and going about once a week for now but I have hit the rock work with the turkey baster every few days.

The ORP at 150 isn't near as low as it has been before as in the 114-130 range it has been in the past. I think the highest it's been was in the low 200's. It recently went up to the 180's about a week ago then back down to 160's and now in the 150's.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the ORP as the algae is going through some type of new stage right now.

[jason2459]

Well, I got a couple new additions to the tank. I know it's about two weeks earlier then I had planned to get any fish and wasn't going to be my first fish that I wanted to get but I could not refuse this oportunity. My LFG had a mated Pair of Ocellaris that he needed to find a home for. I was only going to get one before because a mated pair was so expensive. I got a steal of a bargain getting the two of them for $25!!!!! I love my LFG. He brought them over to my house earlier tonight.

The two are very healthy looking and already very active in the tank. One is definitely slightly bigger then the other, about 1.5" and 2". I can never remember if the bigger one is the mail or female.

Being Delivered
http://i30.*******.com/syp4e1.jpg
http://i27.*******.com/2n67r6b.jpg

Swimming Around together
http://i29.*******.com/34i0caw.jpg
http://i30.*******.com/2prbd6p.jpg

Cleaner coming around to give them a once over
http://i30.*******.com/2hxsy02.jpg

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=2vhzz29&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=2vhzz29&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

[Aquarist007]

good deal Jason--now you have to get an anemone for them.

What's with the flowered bags---the guy runs a gift shop too :)

[jason2459]

LOL yeah, I gave him a hard time about the flowery bags. He said it was a sandwich bag for his kids. Don't know if I'll get an anemone as I'd like to get some corals when ever all the GHA goes away.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15600156#post15600156 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
LOL yeah, I gave him a hard time about the flowery bags. He said it was a sandwich bag for his kids. Don't know if I'll get an anemone as I'd like to get some corals when ever all the GHA goes away.

don't know if I mentioned it before but a coral beauty or yellow tang will clean up the aglae quite nicely

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15600245#post15600245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
don't know if I mentioned it before but a coral beauty or yellow TANG will clean up the aglae quite nicely

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!! :eek1:

[jason2459]

I have to say I absolutely love these two fish already. I've never had a pair of any kind of fish. My LFG said they always hang out together. They are just so much fun to watch swimming around together with the smaller one often following the bigger one around. I've always liked how clowns move, or wiggle, and so neat to see two of them together like this.

BTW, one of the blue legs showed up tonight and looks like he's getting his fill of algae as he is getting fat and found a new home too.

http://i29.*******.com/f0u9hf.jpg

[Rae C.]

Get the clowns a toadstool leather. My clowns were quite in love with the two leathers in my aquarium. I believe the larger of the two is the female. Great deal btw!

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15605416#post15605416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rae C.
Get the clowns a toadstool leather. My clowns were quite in love with the two leathers in my aquarium. I believe the larger of the two is the female. Great deal btw!


I've been going back and forth on the toadstool. I'm just not that big of a fan of those big guys I guess. Are there any other types of corals that they might like and not abuse to death? If not I might go ahead and get one. I have a while before I start adding corals as I want to wait until the GHA goes away.

I'm still in shock that I got a mated pair of clowns for only $25. Looks like they've already decided to host that power head you see in those pictures and video above. That stupid blenny has decided to live in the least natural place in the tank. I have all this rock with tons of holes and caves and he decides he wants to live in a small plastic outlet tube hanging on the back of the tank I use to fill the tank with during a water change.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15600245#post15600245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
don't know if I mentioned it before but a coral beauty or yellow tang will clean up the aglae quite nicely

I know I don't want a yellow tang as I think my tank would frustrate the hell out of it but I've been looking into the Coral Beauty. Seen mixed reports on it's compatability with reefs and most say it's one of the more likely of angles to do okay in a reef setup. One of the concerns I'd have is that it is labeled as semi-aggressive and haven't seen many reports on it's aggression. How aggressive is it's semi-aggresiveness? lol

[jason2459]

BTW, the fish I have so far

bi-color blenny
mated false percs.

Fish I know I want:
Kaudern's Cardinal
Royal Gamma
Mandarin

I really only have room for about one more fish. Don't really want much more of a bioload than that. I was thinking about a flasher wrasse of some type but the coral beauty is very nice looking but does concern me with reef compatability and aggression.

[jason2459]

Also, been looking at corals quite a bit and really like

Galaxia
Frog Spawn
Hammer
multi headed Duncan

Kind of liking the birdsnest as well.

Wow, I just realize my tank is just over a month old now. Feels like I just filled it with water.

[reeferoo]

All of your listed corals the clowns should be happy with! My clowns have hosted duncans, xenia, and a hammer.

I have a flame angel, and like all dwarf angels, sometimes you get more of a nipper than others. She is not too aggressive. She is a wonderful flash of color to the tank- my brightest fish. :-)

Progress looks excellent- looking forward to more!

[jason2459]

Good to know reeferoo. Would the flame angel be an algae eater like the coral beauty?

[reeferoo]

Yes, definitely. My flame swims around constantly taking bites off the rock and glass. If a coral is doing badly, she might go after algae growing on the skeleton (further stressing the dying coral) and possibly making it look like she is going after the coral
I have had no problems with her in a mixed reef
I also have pajama cardinals which are NOT aggressive and she doesn't mess with them at all.

[WaterKeeper]

Angels, both big and small, seek out sponges, their normal diet. They will pick around coral looking for sponge and often damage it if they get too ambitious. Most only eat coral if really hungry and there is nothing much else to eat.

[jason2459]

Thanks guys. A flame angel would stand out really well in my tank. So, on Waterkeeper's advice I'll make sure to dump in a bunch of food into the tank at least three times a day to keep it satisfied and away from the corals.

[Rae C.]

You should dump in at least 1/4 cup of flake food a day, all at once, to watch the feeding frenzy! ;)

What type of coral do fish who are not considered reef safe eat/destroy? Is it all, just sps, just softies, LPS? I've been admiring the flame coral too.

[jason2459]

LOL Rae I guess that's where they get the name for that food called coral frenzy. I'm going to have to stock up on a lot of flake food. I'm really glad Waterkeeper is here to give all this great advice. Much better then Paul B trying to shove that old hat UGF stuff down our throats.

I'm leaning toward attempting the flame angel. IF he ends up destroying the corals I end up getting I'll just have to find him a new home.

I'll be doing some tank mowing tomorrow I think. I'm not sure what that dark brown color stage was that the bryopsis went through but that's almost gone completely now and it's almost all turned a super light green color and lots of it is becoming white. I'll be pulling all the really light green to white stuff out. Don't need what ever nutrients it has accumulated to be put back into the tank. I'll pull out the diatom filter and and use it to suck up the stuff I pull off.

8:45pm Tests
Temp: 82.6
SG: 33
pH: 8.22
ORP: 164
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0

I also checked the Nitrate and Phosphate levels of the salt mixing water in the brute garbage can and the cheap gray little 5g bucket I have for ATO. Both came up as 0.

[Aquarist007]

lets not get carried away with the flake food. That can cause alot of problems with nitrates.
also you are better to feed small amounts more times a day then one large dose so it does get eaten.

For grazers like tangs and angels I suggest you use the pole feeder--a piece of pvc pipe with two elastics on it. You can fix the romaine lettuce, nori kelp what ever to it and it does break off in big chunks like the clipped food.

it is chancy putting more than two angels in the same tank. My coral beauty ripped apart a flame angel over night. My reef buddy, 2frosty4u, has had both the flame and coral beauty in his tank for a long time and they get along fine.

[jason2459]

I guess I should use those little emoticons more often... :)

Capn I saw those pics of the pvc pipe fish feeder you have and already have a piece ready to be cut down if needed. Great idea!

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15617057#post15617057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
I guess I should use those little emoticons more often... :)

Capn I saw those pics of the pvc pipe fish feeder you have and already have a piece ready to be cut down if needed. Great idea!

can't take the credit for the idea however, I not sure anymore who should get the credit so lets let the water keeper and Paul B argue over who invented it.;)
Like you posted above debates over what kind of clams to eat and rugf's are old news:lol: :rollface: :lol:

[Paul B]

Much better then Paul B trying to shove that old hat UGF stuff down our throats.

Excuse me

Let me see my RUGF tank is 40 years old and Waterkeeper's DSB tank lasted, I think, since last tuesday. :lol:

But I must say most DSBs last much longer than that, at least a few years. :D Of course my amphipods are older than that but you can house your amphipods in a spare tank while you dump out the old DSB and make a new one. :rolleyes:

I just want to live long enough to have my RUGF last 50 years.
I have 10 more years to go. If I keep eating all of these oysters and clams, I may not make it. :smokin:

[WaterKeeper]

I just added another year yesterday. I think I would rather skip Aug 29 for the next few years. :D

You can blame Paul for inventing PVC pipe, I still use copper. Oh, wait a second, that is a feeder made from PVC pipe. Paul probably did that too with some leftovers after plumbing in a RUGF. ;)

Actually, I think clams and oysters are good for you. It is that drawn butter that clogs the old arteries.

[Paul B]

Actually, I think clams and oysters are good for you. It is that drawn butter that clogs the old arteries.

Thats why I like to eat them right out of the sea, like M&Ms.

The shells are a little hard on my teeth though. :p

I am going boating today, maybe find some crabs.
Probably just be partying too much to notice anyway. :D

[jason2459]

Bunch of knuckle heads around here. :D

Pulled a bunch of GHA yesterday. Took several hours and there's still some left as I didn't get to picky about it. Probably could have gotten done faster but I was moving pretty slow yesterday with no sleep the night before and played around with the cleaner here and there. He's fun. Held a peice of flake food in my fingers and let him pick it out. He still tries to attack the Clowns when they swim by him. The blenny has gotten use to him and has actually let him do his cleaning duties. The blenny just lays on the rock and the shrimp just picks all over him. Doesn't last very long at all but has happened a few times. I tried to get a vid of it but they were done by the time I got the camera out. I must be doing something right as the shrimp has molted twice now since I got him. Plus the blue leg hermit is getting huge. Never seen a blue leg this big.

A lot of the algae has turned white or is turning white. I do have a small bit growing in the refug along with the macro back there but I'm not going to worry about that. It can grow back there all it wants. It's turning into a nice refug/denitrator and starving the main tank. Pods will have a field day back there. I did order a ozone test kit and should get it this week and test to see if there is any residual ozone getting into the refug or main tank.

Did a 10% water change but no testing besides SG. The vortex XL diatom filter worked great btw.

[Paul B]

I just bought a new 20' sceen net for wednesdays collecting.
I hope to get a lot of tropicals along with crabs of course.
Thats how I get my friends to come with me, I tell them we are going for crabs. The tropicals are just a by catch.

[jason2459]

Holy $%#$ that's a big net. When I was a kid I used to walk up and down the rocky shore lines ripping off stone crab claws to sell and chow down on.

[Paul B]

I went with 2 people from here last week with a 50' net. Don't forget you are dragging this thing through seaweed and it must weigh 500lbs when you get it to shore.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15625335#post15625335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I just bought a new 20' sceen net for wednesdays collecting.
I hope to get a lot of tropicals along with crabs of course.
Thats how I get my friends to come with me, I tell them we are going for crabs. The tropicals are just a by catch.

I really don't know how you do it--if I told my friends(if I had any) that I was going to a place where we might catch crabs I think they would pass.
:lol: :lol:

[Paul B]

I really don't know how you do it--if I told my friends(if I had any) that I was going to a place where we might catch crabs I think they would pass.

Yes I guess so. :D

My problem is that I have too many friends ;)
For some reason my wife and I were always in a big crowd from highschool and we all remained friends. Then of course everyone married which made the friend pool larger.
My wife works completely for gifts for friends kids weddings, showers babies anniversaries etc.
That is also the reason we have a big crowd on the boat.
And we tie a lot of boats together. We are one big happy family,
I am the only one with fish though. :cool:

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15627443#post15627443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Yes I guess so. :D

My problem is that I have too many friends ;)

I am the only one with fish though. :cool:

and probably the only one with the boat;)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15625032#post15625032 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Bunch of knuckle heads around here. :D

Pulled a bunch of GHA yesterday. Took several hours and there's still some left as I didn't get to picky about it. Probably could have gotten done faster but I was moving pretty slow yesterday with no sleep the night before and played around with the cleaner here and there. He's fun. Held a peice of flake food in my fingers and let him pick it out. He still tries to attack the Clowns when they swim by him. The blenny has gotten use to him and has actually let him do his cleaning duties. The blenny just lays on the rock and the shrimp just picks all over him. Doesn't last very long at all but has happened a few times. I tried to get a vid of it but they were done by the time I got the camera out. I must be doing something right as the shrimp has molted twice now since I got him. Plus the blue leg hermit is getting huge. Never seen a blue leg this big.

A lot of the algae has turned white or is turning white. I do have a small bit growing in the refug along with the macro back there but I'm not going to worry about that. It can grow back there all it wants. It's turning into a nice refug/denitrator and starving the main tank. Pods will have a field day back there. I did order a ozone test kit and should get it this week and test to see if there is any residual ozone getting into the refug or main tank.

Did a 10% water change but no testing besides SG. The vortex XL diatom filter worked great btw.

was it bigger then this one:
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/reefescapetangster/DSC_0189-1.jpg

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15627538#post15627538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
was it bigger then this one:
.....


LOL no. But has to be the max size a blue leg could possibly get. He's grown since the last t ime I took a picture of him just last week. He certainly has had enough algae to feed on. I do miss having that giant crab. Man was he fun to watch and feed.

Now that I have some fish in the tank I just hooked up an in tank brine shrimp hatchery. Using a whisper 10 w/ a check valve hooked up to it and put in a small amount of eggs in it. I got it awhile ago but now I have something to eat the baby brine when they come out. It'll be interesting to see if it works. I'd take some pics but I got a sleeping baby(Finally!!) in my arms.

It's this one here.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+7954+10692&pcatid=10692

[Paul B]

and probably the only one with the boat

Actually, I have the smallest boat :rolleyes:

[jason2459]

Got some more test kits in today: Magnesium, calcium, alk, and ozone.

When I get a chance I'm more curious to see what the mag, calc, and alk are in my newly mixed RC then what's in the tank. I did do a quick ozone check. Took the water right were the skimmer empties into the refugium which should be the worse spot.

O3: 0 w/ ozonizer @50%

That made me feel better. I'm getting an airborne ozone test coming soon as well.

The brine shrimp hatchery is working really well. I didn't think I'd see any baby brine for at least a few more hours. I can see a bunch of little baby brine swimming around the exit tube and slowly making their way into the tank where they end up getting swept away by the current. The clowns are having fun swimming around in the current and catching them.

[jason2459]

Oh yeah. I also got a 6" ceramic stone for the skimmer the other day. At full force from the whisper 60 is just way to much air for the skimmer to handle. I had to reduce the air flow but it is foaming like a mad and have no choice but a wet skim with this setup.

[jason2459]

WOOHOO!!! Just got off the phone with my LFG. He'll be going out of town to pick up some fish. I told him I was interested in picking up a Flame Angel and Royal Gramma. That should be good for fish for a while. I wasn't expecting any fish at all till the next few weeks. But I got the surprise from the wife with the blenny and then the deal of a life time from my LFG with the pair of clowns. Tests have been coming back all clear and the algae is starting to die off so I'm happy and think I should be good for another couple fish next week.

Then all I'll have left to get is the Kaudern's Cardinal and the Mandarin. I'll probably hold off on them for a while and concentrate on getting some corals.

[jason2459]

Took a picture of the brine shrimp hatchery earlier tonight.

You can see where the little shells are left behind on the bottom.
http://i32.*******.com/34pbzpl.jpg

[jason2459]

Wow, this is absolutely crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I seriously had planned on NOT having any fish for close to two months when I started this tank just over a month ago now. Fish keep landing in my lap that I just can not pass up. Like already mentioned was the blenny and then the pair of clowns (of which I only planned on having one of). Already have the LFG getting me a Flame Angel and a Royal Gramma next week which would be about on schedule for when I first planned to get some fish. I was going to stop there and not get any more fish for many months. I now have the opportunity to get a mated pair of the Kaudern's Cardinal this weekend of which I again only planed on getting one of. I'm excited about this opportunity but now scared that I'm rushing things to fast.

This would definitely put my bioload above where I planned to have it especially when I end up getting a Mandarin way down the road (I WILL be patient with that one no matter what opportunity may come up.) I think I may upgrade my skimmer now. I have been happy with frankenskimmer and was confident in it's ability with the bioload I was going to have when first planned out. The skimmer is going to be my main means of nutrient export as I reduce the amount of water changes I will be doing. So, now that I'm going to be above my bioload limit I planned for I think I now need an upgrade.

Something that's more for a 100g tank instead of the SS65 I have now. Still require HOB and will use the overflow bucket. I want a small footprint on the back of the tank as the HOB refug takes up a good amount of realestate. I would like to still feed the refuge with the skimmer too. Would like to get back to a venturi/meshwheel instead of using air stones but that's not a huge deal. Also, need it to not be really noisy as it is in my living room/main room of our cracker box sized home. I'll be looking around at different models and used deals.

[jason2459]

Well, it's the sister-in-laws turn to visit us. She's the one I got the tank from something like two years ago. I always feel bad talking about the tank with her because I know she misses it but she still isn't in a situation she could have a tank. I talked to my wife about getting her one of those all in one nano tanks for Christmas but the wife said her sister would love it but just couldn't put it where she lives or have the time to take care of it.

She did bring me a little present.
http://i28.*******.com/29xhd3c.jpg

I can't believe how fortunate I've been in getting all this live stock so far either free to super cheap. She felt bad for me for loosing everything in the flood and thought she could help restock it. That was super nice. I guess she talked to the wife about things I was wanting for the tank. I'm just super glad it wasn't a fish. I love inverts so this was awesome. He's already disappeared in the rock work somewhere.

In another thread I found out what all these little round white spots are all over the rocks and shells I have in my tank.

http://i28.*******.com/r22ion.jpg

I guess they're Nirite eggs and my nirites can't keep their hands of each other.

As for the GHA, I think it's about done. Since last weekend when I mowed the grass in the tank it really hasn't grown back at all and the stuff that was left is withering away.

http://i32.*******.com/wjdgqs.jpg

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15637272#post15637272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Wow, this is absolutely crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I seriously had planned on NOT having any fish for close to two months when I started this tank just over a month ago now. Fish keep landing in my lap that I just can not pass up. Like already mentioned was the blenny and then the pair of clowns (of which I only planned on having one of). Already have the LFG getting me a Flame Angel and a Royal Gramma next week which would be about on schedule for when I first planned to get some fish. I was going to stop there and not get any more fish for many months. I now have the opportunity to get a mated pair of the Kaudern's Cardinal this weekend of which I again only planed on getting one of. I'm excited about this opportunity but now scared that I'm rushing things to fast.

This would definitely put my bioload above where I planned to have it especially when I end up getting a Mandarin way down the road (I WILL be patient with that one no matter what opportunity may come up.) I think I may upgrade my skimmer now. I have been happy with frankenskimmer and was confident in it's ability with the bioload I was going to have when first planned out. The skimmer is going to be my main means of nutrient export as I reduce the amount of water changes I will be doing. So, now that I'm going to be above my bioload limit I planned for I think I now need an upgrade.

Something that's more for a 100g tank instead of the SS65 I have now. Still require HOB and will use the overflow bucket. I want a small footprint on the back of the tank as the HOB refug takes up a good amount of realestate. I would like to still feed the refuge with the skimmer too. Would like to get back to a venturi/meshwheel instead of using air stones but that's not a huge deal. Also, need it to not be really noisy as it is in my living room/main room of our cracker box sized home. I'll be looking around at different models and used deals.

Jason, get a hold of some Seachem Stablilizer--its like bacteria in a bottle. It will really help with the increased bioload until the reef rock cycles more.

[judgedread]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15531829#post15531829 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
BTW, I officially have a tank from the dead. I present to you Frankenskimmer.

I now have a sea clone maxijet 1200 pump, coralife super skimmer 65 body, drilled out overflow, and Lee's berlin 3" wood stone. You know I decided on the three BEST skimmers out there to make one ultimate best every skimmer in the world.

This final step of the air stone came about out of laziness and less maintenance. I had some foam in the refug to remove the microbubbles. Still had a few getting into the tank and realized I really didn't want to clean the foam every week because heaven forbid I ANOTHER nitrate factory going on. Instead of the air going into the pump the pump is just pumping water and using the whisper air pump to push air/ozone right into the stone into the skimmer. This allows the air bubbles to go straight up and never travels all the way down to where the water goes out of the skimmer. No micro bubbles and no foam necessary now. Just have to replace the air stone every couple months or so.


Has a small cost to it but much less maintenance. Worth it in my book. Plus the foaming output is a LOT more. Here's some pics to show what I'm talking about.

http://i30.*******.com/35358vp.jpg

http://i31.*******.com/2djp3eu.jpg

http://i32.*******.com/33pgims.jpg

wow i had no idea those things skimmed so well!

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15646591#post15646591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Jason, get a hold of some Seachem Stablilizer--its like bacteria in a bottle. It will really help with the increased bioload until the reef rock cycles more.

Thanks for the tip. I think I've actually seen some of that at either the local petco or petsmart. I can't remember which. I check it out today. I really have become more uncomfortable with all these additions now. It was just one here then two there, and now a snowball effect as happened it seems like. It's really nice that people want to help me out and I really feel bad if I were to refuse but I don't think it's going to help out the tank being stocked so fast. I will have to refuse any more fish or deals on them though. Hopefully I wont have too.

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15646754#post15646754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by judgedread
wow i had no idea those things skimmed so well!


:lol:

I've actually never had a problem with the coralife superskimmer. It did go nuts on me a few times when it was newer and over flow but once I figured it out and got the Rio pump and bubble diffuser setup right I never really had an issue. I can't remember it may have went nuts on me once after that too. It worked okay for a smaller tank and I have always tried to treat this 55g as more of a 40g as I don't have a sump but do at least have a HOB refugium.

Only problem I have with it now is the original Rio pump is so loud. I have it right next to where the wife and I sit in the living room of our new home. So, began the quest to make it quieter. In effect though it's making the skimmer perform better then it ever has before. It has gone nuts on me a few times again but it was just after getting it setup and hasn't done so again.

Even with the increase in performance though I feel like I'm starting to get a bioload that would push a 55g tank and just would feel more comfortable with a higher rated skimmer. Especially since this time around I want to get some corals.

[jason2459]

Checked out Petco and Petsmart and they didn't have the seachem stabilize in. Either I was mistaken and neither of them had it or just didn't have it in stock right now. I checked that out over lunch... well I ended up taking a long lunch which I guess I'm still at. I went ahead and took off to a LFS out of town and picked up some Stabilize and on the way back picked up the mated pair of Kaudern's Cardinal's. Got them acclimated with a drip for the past hour and did a quick water change before I put them in the tank.

I also went ahead and tested the RC mix I've had mixing for the past 44 hours or so. Calibrated my refractometer with the pinpoint 53mS solution too.

25g mix
Temp 80
SG 35
pH 7.95
calcium 480
dKH 13
Mg 1470
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0

Also went ahead and did a full check on the tank just before the water change.

4:30p
Temp: 80.2
SG: 34
pH: 7.91
ORP 130
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0

Here's the cute couple just before I put them in the tank.
http://i32.*******.com/av3les.jpg

http://i29.*******.com/2nsxfeq.jpg

I have the 10k lights off right now to get them used to the brighter lights. They were in a FOWLR with normal fluorescence. They're just kind of hanging out in the top left corner of the tank right now looking around. I'll get some picks later when I get all the lights turned on. I also turned off the big m820 powerhead for right now too. The blenny instantly took refug inside it... silly fish.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15650198#post15650198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Checked out Petco and Petsmart and they didn't have the seachem stabilize in. Either I was mistaken and neither of them had it or just didn't have it in stock right now. I checked that out over lunch... well I ended up taking a long lunch which I guess I'm still at. I went ahead and took off to a LFS out of town and picked up some Stabilize and on the way back picked up the mated pair of Kaudern's Cardinal's. Got them acclimated with a drip for the past hour and did a quick water change before I put them in the tank.

I also went ahead and tested the RC mix I've had mixing for the past 44 hours or so. Calibrated my refractometer with the pinpoint 53mS solution too.

25g mix
Temp 80
SG 35
pH 7.95
calcium 480
dKH 13
Mg 1470
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0

Also went ahead and did a full check on the tank just before the water change.

4:30p
Temp: 80.2
SG: 34
pH: 7.91
ORP 130
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0



those are good levels--right in line with RC:

Reef Crystals (new)
490 ca
13 dkH
1440 mag

I personally don't use RC because I do not like my tank running at 13 dkH alkalinity. I prefer it to be in the 11 range

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15650840#post15650840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
those are good levels--right in line with RC:

Reef Crystals (new)
490 ca
13 dkH
1440 mag

I personally don't use RC because I do not like my tank running at 13 dkH alkalinity. I prefer it to be in the 11 range

I saw that salt mix thread in the chemistry section and was curious if I would match those numbers. Those tests are a bit more involved then the basic ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests. Drop, mix, drop, mix, drop, mix... etc. etc. I wont be doing another water change probably until next Sunday. I'm going to test the numbers in the tank before hand this time. See what it's like over a weeks time between water changes.

Some more pics of the happy couple.
http://i25.*******.com/2j67jg4.jpg

Instant double the fish.
http://i31.*******.com/onv51.jpg


They like to nudge each other and you can see it at the end of the vid.
<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=2a69f8z&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=2a69f8z&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

[jason2459]

Capn, also wanted to ask why don't you like the dkh that high? I really don't know much about those numbers at all. I understand pretty much everything else I've been measuring but really don't understand the alk. stuff to much yet.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15651208#post15651208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Capn, also wanted to ask why don't you like the dkh that high? I really don't know much about those numbers at all. I understand pretty much everything else I've been measuring but really don't understand the alk. stuff to much yet.

the preferred range for alk is 8-11 dkH. If you keep it around 11.5 then that helps corraline grow. I just like wandering too much away from prefered ranges.

High alkalinity can cause calcium precipitation.

[jason2459]

That's interesting to know capn. Now would having higher mag. allow for higher cal. and alk. levels?

Something I noticed in the moon lights of the tank is that the Cardinals seem to like to sleep right in the current in the front of the tank. They've been there literally all night. I should know, I've been up all night....

http://i27.*******.com/2qd6h6h.jpg

It's been neat just seeing them swim around that same area all night. The smaller one is always in front. All my other fish I've ever had has always found some spot in the rock or behind the rock and disappear for the night away from water flow.

[jason2459]

Been examining the rocks. Looks like one of the new peaces of live rock I got is growing some feather dusters, small hydroids, and a small aptasia. This will be fun. I've never had hydroids before either. The algae for the most part is just starting to fall apart. Seems to be skipping the going pale and white stage and just breaking off into the water. I think I did that manual removal of as much algae as I could just in time last weekend. That picture above is a great shot of the tank where there use to be the algae forest along the gravel and rock work. You can see the snail eggs on that shell right in the middle w/ black stripes too. They are everywhere.

[jason2459]

Haven't given my blenny any loving lately so here's some pics and vids of him.

The clown was jealous and wanted to get his picture taken too.
http://i29.*******.com/333fuvp.jpg


The Clowns wanted a peace of the action again.
<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=be60xx&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=be60xx&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>


The blenny cleaning yet another home out. He's picked out about a dozen holes to live in so far. At least he's in the rocks this time and not an outlet nozzle. I took it out of the tank when not in use.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=r0t6wo&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=r0t6wo&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

Here's a pic of what I believe are hydroids. The little white things in the middle.

http://i26.*******.com/30mu3h4.jpg

Not sure which crappy picture looks better.

http://i30.*******.com/2164o6.jpg

[jason2459]

I gave into the clowns request to get in the video. They are very full of themselves. I think along with the snail that thinks he's a reindeer I believe the blenny thinks he's a clown fish. He likes to swim around with the two clowns all the time now. Luckily they don't care and leave him alone and actually follow him around some times.

The three's company.

http://i32.*******.com/vdojsl.jpg


I believe the clowns are looking at this place for their new home. They're shaking their tails and blowing the area off. Of course the blenny is right there with them. Also, got the three amigos swimming around together at the end.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=2hdsbc2&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=2hdsbc2&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

[jason2459]

Hope I'm not taking to many pictures and vids. Last time I had the tank setup I really didn't get that many pictures or anything and regret it now. I had some really cool things in there. Some that were inherited and some I bought.

[Aquarist007]

one can't take too many pictures---I just hope the baby is getting the same level of photographic attention as your tank is :)

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15660872#post15660872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
one can't take too many pictures---I just hope the baby is getting the same level of photographic attention as your tank is :)

I would easily say 500x the amount.

Events that cause pictures to be taken:

1) change of clothes (at least 10x daily) to get picture of new outfit on
2) Fell asleep by himself (at least 100 times daily)
3) Fell asleep in one of our arms (at least 1000 times daily)
4) Being laid down to sleep to hopefully stay that way (at least 1000000 times daily)
5) just being in our arms (at least 100000000000000000 times daily)
6) etc. I think you get the idea :bigeyes:


BTW, so far the little guy absolutely loves to stare at the tank. So, score one for one of the justifications to keeping the tank up and spending money on it. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

[Aquarist007]

Jason, you might consider reviving this thread on pics of our kids and tanks with a few you have taken:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1401603

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15661116#post15661116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Jason, you might consider reviving this thread on pics of our kids and tanks with a few you have taken:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1401603

Awesome thread. I just added a recent picture. He's in that position right now too.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15661156#post15661156 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Awesome thread. I just added a recent picture. He's in that position right now too.

thanks---that is a great picture.

[jason2459]

Thanks capn. He's great and I love him to death. Though I can't wait for him to be able to sleep more. I'm getting maybe at most 3 hours a sleep spread through out the night. He's about just about every hour eating, pooping, or peeing.

Should be getting the Flame angel and Royal Gramma tomorrow night. That flame angel should really stand out well with the reds. I'll have a nice mix of colors between the orange, blueish grey, silver, white, black, purple, yellow, blue and red. I'll give the tank a break for a while and making sure the numbers are stabilized before I start adding in some corals. I'll wait for the current hydroid cycle to kill itself off. The last bit of bryopsis is looking so pathetic right now. That flame angel will probably clean the rest of the little strands off. Or maybe not.

I did have a bit of cyano film here and there yesterday but it's all gone now again. I've had a few really short cyano cycles. They don't last very long at all. I think the flow in the tank has helped that a lot. I am dosing the seachem stabilize right now as directed. Will probably do that for another week.

Few things I've noticed is that the cardinals aren't aggressive until it's time to feed spirulina/brine. They absolutely go crazy over that. I've been alternating between a mixed flake food, mysis, and spirulina brine. The shrimp absolutely love the mysis. That's about the only time I get to see the bloodred shrimp come out. The clowns love the flake and eats both the mysis and the brine. The cardinals couldn't care less about the flakes, nibbles on the mysis, and nuts about the brine and become pretty aggressive. The blenny loves the flakes, ignores the mysis, and eats some of the brine.

I don't feed a lot of any of that. Just a pinch of flake and one cube of either the brine or mysis lasts a good 3-4 days right now. Once I get the Angel and the Gramma I'll probably get a good 2-3 days out of one cube. I'll watch to make sure they they look healthy and aren't starving. So far everyone seems happy.

[jason2459]

hmm... I have had this dull or muted knocking sound coming from the tank probably since I put in the Cardinal fish. I wonder if they make that sound or coming from something else. I've been looking for something in there that could be making that noise. Concerned it could be a mantis shrimp too but haven't heard the sound before those fish were added. It's not a clicking sound but almost like two rocks just knocking together. I don't see any loose rocks at all moving around. It's typically just a double dull "knock" "knock" or single "knock" every so often. Also, notice its around the area the cardinals are at which makes me wonder if the noise could actually be coming from the fish?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15671819#post15671819 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
hmm... I have had this dull or muted knocking sound coming from the tank probably since I put in the Cardinal fish. I wonder if they make that sound or coming from something else. I've been looking for something in there that could be making that noise. Concerned it could be a mantis shrimp too but haven't heard the sound before those fish were added. It's not a clicking sound but almost like two rocks just knocking together. I don't see any loose rocks at all moving around. It's typically just a double dull "knock" "knock" or single "knock" every so often. Also, notice its around the area the cardinals are at which makes me wonder if the noise could actually be coming from the fish?

hmmm I haunted tank---sure there is not a clown fish stuck in the overflow:D

[jason2459]

lol
I guess it fits. This is the zombie tank from the dead.

[jason2459]

Oh yeah. that last post reminded me of my frankenskimmer. Just wanted to make note that I'll be getting a eshopps psk-100h tomorrow as well. My LFG is picking a used one up for me really cheap (which they're already an inexpensive unit). Seems to meet my requirements on paper. We'll see how it does.

[jason2459]

VERY happy with my recent additions. I can always trust Tom my LFG to pick up healthy and very vivid looking fish. I got the Royal Gramma and the Flame Angel in the tank tonight and well... haven't seen them since. Have seen the Angel swimming around a bit in the back of the tank going from cave to cave back there. I'm sure they'll calm down over the next few days and start coming out to the front.

These pictures do absolutely NO justice to their color. The flame angel has nice deep black lines, vivid red, hint of orange in the belly area on into the back fin, beautiful blues and violets in the other fin's tips.

http://i30.*******.com/sb63j6.jpg

The royal gramma is a nice brilliant purple and yellow.

http://i28.*******.com/eanpm1.jpg

Getting the Bloodred Shrimp a bit more relaxed and coming out more. Got a vid of him saying hello.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=30bo014&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=30bo014&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

I am also really happy with the replacement skimmer! The Eshopps PSK-100h. I really like how it's designed with the bubble plate on the bottom to diffuse and slow down the bubbles and making them more concentrated. Also, I like the air being drawn right into the bottom of the skimmer. Both of those seem to be giving the microbubbles more time to work in the water.

Here's a pic comparing the franken skimmer and the eshopps. The Eshopps is a little taller and the same diameter but the way the air is drawn into the bottom and with the bubble plate there is a LOT more air/water interaction. The Superskimmer draws the air/water mix into the middle of the unit and goes up from there.

http://i28.*******.com/qx47cl.jpg

http://i27.*******.com/24vuyd0.jpg

I had to alter things a little. The skimmer is not exactly setup the way I need to feed into the refugium so I had to kind of wedge things here and extend things there. I used a flexible PVC hose I had laying around that fit perfectly with a rubber connection on one end. I also took the bubble collection cup that I haven't used with the super skimmer and using it as a surface skimmer box for the input to use. I dremeled out some slots. Looks like I'll have to make the slots a little wider maybe.

Here's a vid of the setup. I left the audio on to give you an idea of the sound with the microphone right there next to everything. The light fans are louder then the skimmer. In fact I don't hear the skimmer at all sitting on the chair or couch by the fish tank. I have to adjust a few things in the refug to make that area quieter but it's still quieter then the lightfixture.

Another thing that is pretty awesome is that after running for only 10m it started pulling skimmate already.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=2nocae&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=2nocae&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>

[Aquarist007]

Yes they are beautiful fish.
Nice to see there are other skimmers in existance other than MSX's :)

[jason2459]

LOL, I can't even afford one of those Used.

I'll give it some time before I'll say it's a better performer then ol' frankenskimmer but the Eshopps looks very promising. I'll take some ORP readings again in a few days to see if there's anything different. I'm just letting the meshwheel the skimmer comes with to pull in the air by itself without the air pump. Working great like that which makes me happy to not have the air pump running too.

Also, I swear that at least one or both of the Cardinal fish are making that knocking sound. Driving me nuts trying to figure out the source.

[Aquarist007]

how much was the eshopps?

[jason2459]

Brand new it's going for around $130 for the 100g model and around $115 for the 75g model. I picked this up for $30 as a scratch'n dent so it's never been used. It has a small micro crack where you hang the skimmer on the tank. I used some weldon and silicone and seems to be holding up. I'll keep an eye on it. The pump on it alone is worth that I suppose. It's a via aqua 1300 with a modified meshwheel.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15677363#post15677363 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Brand new it's going for around $130 for the 100g model and around $115 for the 75g model. I picked this up for $30 as a scratch'n dent so it's never been used. It has a small micro crack where you hang the skimmer on the tank. I used some weldon and silicone and seems to be holding up. I'll keep an eye on it. The pump on it alone is worth that I suppose. It's a via aqua 1300 with a modified meshwheel.

sounds good. The remora c pro up here goes for 279 Cdn and its rated for a 120 gal.

[jason2459]

So, what is that like $1000 USD?


I've been looking at several HOB skimmers. The Deltec's look awesome and so does the SWC extreme and ATB multi-use cone. But all those are super high end priced except for the SWC is in the middle of the road for price. The Remora was on my list of look out for skimmers but farther down as I kept reading that it was kind of loud compared to other HOB skimmers. The Eshopps intrigued me in that it is budget friendly but a nice design that has features you'd see in skimmers like the ATB or SWCs. Of course I came across another deal I couldn't refuse. Been very lucky with those with this rebuild.

[jason2459]

Looks like I got another mini cycle of cyano again. Probably just the tank having to adjust again to another increase in the bioload. Haven't seen the Royal Gramma at all. Not concerned yet. We'll see if he'll come out by this weekend. I've got a lot of hiding spots.

Got some better pics of the angel. I still think the colors look more vibrant in person.

http://i28.*******.com/2monxip.jpg


Here's a fairly long vid of the angel and other tank mates swimming around. As you can see there's plenty of places for the Gramma to hide.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=1415b2w&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=1415b2w&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>


Here's a pic from this morning of the skimmate produced by the skimmer in about a 12 hour period. Not bad for still breaking in.

http://i26.*******.com/2itrde1.jpg

[jason2459]

I haven't been able to catch the banggai cards doing anything special but I'm almost 100% positive its them making that knocking noise.

I haven't been able to find any other official report of these fish making a noise except for in this one post about 3/4 the way down.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/banggaibeh.htm


Banggai Cardinal
Hi Crew
<Howdy>
I have a beautiful Banggai Cardinalfish, in a 200 gallon marine reef tank in the UK. I have no problem with him, other than he makes a 'clicking sound'. I have read your articles on the Banggai cardinal fish and I cannot see anywhere, where is says a clicking noise is made. Is this usual?
<Mmm, no... just requires that folks listen carefully>
Perhaps, he/she is asking me to feed him/her?
<Maybe... or communicating with other life in the system>
I wonder if you could tell me about the clicking noise they make, and what it indicates?
I have had the fish for almost 7 months now and he is a very happy fish, not at all shy. He has plenty of live rock and places to hide around, but he is always on display and chases around his smaller Pyjama fish, tank mates. He also like to go inside the Malu anemone and plays with the clowns.
Thanks for an awesome website.
<Welcome>
Could you reply to me by email if possible, as I have just had spinal surgery and cannot sit for long at the PC at the moment.
Linda
<We reply directly to all, as well as post on WWM... Sorry to read of your surgery, Bob Fenner, who tweaked his lumbar area a few weeks back in HI pulling weeds and is still mal-affected>

[Paul B]

Mine always make that noise also

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15682116#post15682116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Mine always make that noise also

Then the only reason I can see that no one else has really documented this phenomenon I must conclude that they are complaining about the RUGF and would like a UV filter, lots of reactors, and several dosing pumps connected to a big controller with a really big sump.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15681346#post15681346 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Looks like I got another mini cycle of cyano again. Probably just the tank having to adjust again to another increase in the bioload. Haven't seen the Royal Gramma at all. Not concerned yet. We'll see if he'll come out by this weekend. I've got a lot of hiding spots.

Got some better pics of the angel. I still think the colors look more vibrant in person.

http://i28.*******.com/2monxip.jpg


Here's a fairly long vid of the angel and other tank mates swimming around. As you can see there's plenty of places for the Gramma to hide.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v3.*******.com/player.swf?file=1415b2w&s=3"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://*******.com/player.php?v=1415b2w&s=3">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://*******.com">*******</a></font>


Here's a pic from this morning of the skimmate produced by the skimmer in about a 12 hour period. Not bad for still breaking in.

http://i26.*******.com/2itrde1.jpg

either that's one powerful skimmer or your tank is really filthy:lol: :rollface: :lol:

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15682197#post15682197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
Then the only reason I can see that no one else has really documented this phenomenon I must conclude that they are complaining about the RUGF and would like a UV filter, lots of reactors, and several dosing pumps connected to a big controller with a really big sump.

you really can't put a rugf in the list of reef keeping bloatware;)

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15682436#post15682436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
.... your tank is really filthy:lol: :rollface: :lol:


I'm just trying to match Paul B's tank as best as possible... :rollface:

[jason2459]

I am really impressed with the skimmer for how cheap it is brand new. It really gets the air mixing well and foaming before it even hits the neck. Perfect for budget constrained people with smaller tanks I think. I don't know how well it would do on a bigger tank but I feel confident it's perfect for this 55g. I'm sure something like the SWC Extreme HOB or the ATB multi use would kick this eshopp's skimmers rear but then again they are also 100x as much money.

[Aquarist007]

How about a recap:
what fish and critters do you have in your tank?

[jason2459]

Sure Here's a breakdown of everything.

Fish:
Bi-color Blenny
Mated Pair of Clowns
Mated Pair of Kaudern's (Banggai) Cardinals
Flame Angel
Royal Gramma (somewhere)

Inverts:
6 or 7 blue leg hermits (one I think is a zombie)
1 red leg hermit
11 Nerite Snails
25-30 Cerith Snails
1 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp
1 Bloodred (fire) Shrimp
4 Peppermint Shrimps

Macro Algae (Both in the HOB Refugium):
Ball of Chaeto
Gracilaria

Food and feeding
Alternate feeding once a day either:
Aqueon mixed Marine Flakes
Spirulina Brine
Mysis
Fresh Hatched Baby Brine

Filtration:
75lbs of live rock (5lbs in the refugium)
50lbs of Dolomite on top of the RUGF
Eshopps PSK100-H skimmer w/ ozonizer and over flow bucket
HOB Refugium (algae listed above)

Maintanence equip
Vortex XL Diatom filter (use maybe once a month)
mag float (use once a day)
toothbrush
baster

Water Flow and pumps (Around 2475 GPH):
Eshopps Skimmer into Refugium back to Tank (around 300gph)
Two SEIO p530's
One SEIO m820
MaxiJet 1200 Stirring up the surface (295gph)
Two quiet ones 53gph into RUGF (can't really add this to total gph)

Lighting
Current Sundial 4 T5's w/ lunar lights (current has default 2x 460nm and 2x 10k lights. Going to play around with ATI Aquablue's, Blue Plus, and UVL Actinic White.) Wish I went retro. Once this fixture breaks I'll replace with a retro kit.

Some 18w fluorescence daylight/plant grow bulb over refugium

Temp Control
2 Rena heaters. 1 50w and 1 100w in tank.
1 300w in mixing container.

Backup Plan
APC SmartUPS 1500va with only the skimmer connected and two battery backup air pumps. Plenn plax (2xD cells) and Azoo(internal rechargable battery). Air pumps kick on when the UPS fails. UPS should last around 3-4hours and plen plax around 12hours and azoo 20 hours.

Car power inverter and long extension cord to tank

Saving up for a Generator

Water
BRS 5 stage RO/DI unit
Brute trash can for salt water mixing
5g bucket under stand for top off water

Supply lines to both brute and 5g bucket w/ float valves but still manually top off both. Float valves are a backup to me forgetting to turn the water off.

Magdrive 1800 to push water up to tank from mixing container for water changes. Empty tank direct into basement drain.

Aqualifter for ATO setup with float sensors in tank.

Chemicals and Additives
IO ReefCrystals salt mix

Testing
Calibrate everything that can be calibrated once a month
Refractometer
Hanna pH/ORP/temp probe
API Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/Phosphate/Calcium/Alk
Salifert Magnesium
RedSea O3


I think that's it. :)

[Paul B]

I must conclude that they are complaining about the RUGF

No, they are cheering.

I can't make a list like that. I built everything and I don't know what half the animals are called. :D

OK let me try

A skimmer made out of PVC and acrylic.
2 Plaza Hotel sodium lights converted to MH
5 antique pumps.
Homemade auto fill
dolomite, I don't know how much, A bunch
Mud, Type New York
Rocks, some made out of PVC and cement some collected
Asphalt.
A bunch of fish and corals. Who knows.
Bottles, chains, cans
UGF fed with a home made system of bent pipes and containers
Algae trough made from fence post, cement and window screen
Ozonizer, someone on here gave me.
Auto shut off leak detector, (homemade)
Homemade stand in a home made house

Thats it
:smokin:

[jason2459]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15683552#post15683552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
....
I can't make a list like that. I built everything and I don't know what half the animals are called. :D

OK let me try
....

It helps that I'm much younger and still have my memory. Oh, I suppose it also helps that I just put this tank together. :lol:


Crap, I forgot to throw in the asphalt.

[Paul B]

Jason, does your tank look likt this? It has to look like this because this is the secret. Even the fan suspended by string which I forgot to mention and that green thing which is the secret to the RUGF, or that white thing which is the algae trough

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/UGF001.jpg

[jason2459]

I kind of have a modified version of each minus the dangling death trap (fan). LOL Is that a zip tie holding that plug in place?

That reminds me its been over a month now and I should clean those little RUGF pumps I've got going. I sort of have an algae trough in the HOB refugium. I'm just letting all sorts of algae grow and anything else that wishes to grow back there.

[Paul B]

I cleaned my RUGF pumps I think when Ford was President, 9He was after Oldsmobile) I don't really remember. If it aint broke, I aint fixing it.
That death trap fan was actually on when I took the picture, great camera. I installed it that was as an emergency when the other fan coroded away while dosing iron to the tank at the same time. I never took out this "temporary" fan because the fan season is almost over, but in the back of my mind I know it will be back next year the same way. :lol:

Oh yeah, that is a tie wrap holding that extention cord to the fan which really does not have a plug on it. I gust have the wires stuck in the plug. I am an electrician so it is OK :rolleyes:

[jason2459]

Well, as long as you're an electrician... :strooper:


Threw caution to the wind last night and set the ozonizer up to 100%. The cyano bloom is still here and there in a few spot. I keep the rocks blown off pretty good though. That probably helps. Took some readings tonight as I'm going to do a water change tomorrow morning. I was very surprised with the calcium and kH readings and took them twice.

6:30pm Full set of Tests
Temp: 80.9
SG: 35
pH: 8.16
ORP: 205 (last night before adjusting from 50% to 100% was 142)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphates: 0
Calcium: 500 ( I really thought this would be lower)
kH: 10 (Thought this would be higher)
Mg: 1410 (Around where I thought it would be)
O3: 0 (taken from refug)

[Paul B]

The calcium is high, are you throwing sheetrock into the tank?

[jason2459]

LOL

Have no idea. The IO RC I tested in the mixing container and tested in that chemistry salt mix thread by other people was above 450 and under 500. I figured it would be near the lower end. I did come up with 500 each time right on the drop.

[jason2459]

Well, I went searching for that gramma as best I could minus ripping the rock apart and couldn't see that sucker. Went looking around the floor as well, nope. So, he's in the tank somewhere playing hide'n seek or playing dead.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15683765#post15683765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason2459
It helps that I'm much younger and still have my memory. Oh, I suppose it also helps that I just put this tank together. :lol:


Crap, I forgot to throw in the asphalt.

no its a good thing you are young and have a lot of time on your hands :lol: