high ammonia and nitrate

[boogers]

So I tested my water today and my ammonia and my nitrates are kinda high. last week they were perfect but my ph was too low.
i also used some red algae stuff. i did my water change as instructed for that. i checked evertying again today and now it's worse.
from what i have read both of these are mostly caused from fish poop? i started feeding a different food last week and everyday instead of everyother day. is that what happened? and if so what is the best way to get the nitrates and the ammonia back down to where they need to be?
Thank You
Sandra

[drummereef]

If the tank is not going through a cycle of any kind, which shouldn't be the case on an established tank, there should be no ammonia unless there's a problem. Are the only inhabitants the 2 perculas? Do they look/act ok?

What are you using for biological filtration on your tank?

[EverettReef]

+1 You should not have ammonia detectable in an established tank unless there is a problem with your biological filtration. Can you let us know what you are using for filtration? How many pounds of live rock and how deep of a sandbed do you have? What all is in the tank?

[99sf]

While you are determining the cause of the spike in ammonia and nitrates, I recommend doing a significant water change.

[Michael]

agree with the above, also id suggest confirming the ammonia kit is ok and not spent

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15407000#post15407000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael
agree with the above, also id suggest confirming the ammonia kit is ok and not spent

Very true. And with that said many 'cheaper' test kits find trace amounts of ammonia when it's not actually there. I would confirm the tests if the tank inhabitants are doing well.

[jtma508]

How old is the tank? Was anything put into the tank (LR or anything?). Also, you said you "used some red algae stuff". I can only assume you added it to KILL the red algae, correct? That being the case, when the red algae dies you'll get a spike in ammonia and ubsequently nitrites and nitrates. Have you tested for nitrites?

[sedor]

Doesn't the red algae killer also kill off your beneficial bacteria? I guess if you used enough of it you might be able to start another cycle.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15406414#post15406414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drummereef
If the tank is not going through a cycle of any kind, which shouldn't be the case on an established tank, there should be no ammonia unless there's a problem. Are the only inhabitants the 2 perculas? Do they look/act ok?

What are you using for biological filtration on your tank?

There are the 2 clowns, a goby, starfish, and some snail. They all act fine.
I have probably close to 80 or so lbs of live rock. I just took out all my bio balls.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15406474#post15406474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EverettReef
+1 You should not have ammonia detectable in an established tank unless there is a problem with your biological filtration. Can you let us know what you are using for filtration? How many pounds of live rock and how deep of a sandbed do you have? What all is in the tank?


The sand bed is probably about 1 inch. I want to make it depper but I have to fix everything else first.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15406820#post15406820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 99sf
While you are determining the cause of the spike in ammonia and nitrates, I recommend doing a significant water change.
What would you consider a significant water change? In the last month I have done probably 4 or 5 5 gallon water changes.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15407000#post15407000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael
agree with the above, also id suggest confirming the ammonia kit is ok and not spent

it is a brand new test kit. I just bought it last week.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15407658#post15407658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtma508
How old is the tank? Was anything put into the tank (LR or anything?). Also, you said you "used some red algae stuff". I can only assume you added it to KILL the red algae, correct? That being the case, when the red algae dies you'll get a spike in ammonia and ubsequently nitrites and nitrates. Have you tested for nitrites?

Yes it was chemi clean to kill the red algae. The nitrites were 0 when I tested last night. The nitrates and ammonia were pretty high.

[MrHarvard]

You dont have any nitrites now but you will once the ammonia start to turn into them. I would not do any large water changes as that may make the problem worse. I would however do a couple of small ones every few days until you can identify the problem and help stablelize the bioload. It sounds to me like the die off from the algae is what is causeing your problem. If you have a skimmer you want to make sure you are maximizing its work load right now. Also you said you took out your bioballs? Im personally not a fan of them but if they were working for you its best to leave your filtration alone once you have it established. You could have also possible stirred something up when you removed them. These are things I would look at. IMO

[Korrine]

I don't see anyone asking this: how high is the ammonia reading? Depending how high it is a large wc may be in order or perhaps it would be ok w/a few small ones.

Also what are the nitrates?

[EllieSuz]

Did you remove a significant number of bio-balls all at once? This is a process that should occur gradually, a few at a time. This could be the cause of your problem.

[MrHarvard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15408158#post15408158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Korrine
I don't see anyone asking this: how high is the ammonia reading? Depending how high it is a large wc may be in order or perhaps it would be ok w/a few small ones.

Also what are the nitrates?

1 is to many!! but even if you can get rid of them with a wc you still need to find the source of the problem!!IMO

[Korrine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15408536#post15408536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrHarvard
1 is to many!! but even if you can get rid of them with a wc you still need to find the source of the problem!!IMO

duh :lol:

If he says it's .5 it's not really that high and a few small water changes will suffice as the tank sorts itself out. However if it's 4ppm then larger wc are in order.

He probably took out all his bioballs at once...(he posted he took them out). His rock may have to play catch up. That's my guess.

[wooden_reefer]

Agreed.

As long as the earth spins around the sun and grass grows, so will nitrification bacteria.

If there is no clog of any form, no large unexpected bioload such as a decaying fish, and no poision (some antibiotics) there will be no ammonia and no nitrite in an established tank.

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15407969#post15407969 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boogers
[B...I have probably close to 80 or so lbs of live rock. I just took out all my bio balls. [/B]


Could very well be, if you took out a lot of bio balls all at once, the bio filter in your rock is just trying to catch up with with the active bio load in your tank. I'm still suspect about the test kit results as many ammonia tests, even with good quality test kits, can be flawed. ;)

[KarlBob]

We know that the OP has changed several things recently. The ChemiClean probably killed a lot of cyano, temporarily increasing nutrient load. Removing the bio-balls reduced the surface area available for nitrification, and the mass of nitrifying bacteria in the tank. Switching from feeding every other day to feeding every day may have also increased the nutrient load.

What we don't know is how much time elapsed between each of these changes. Nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria don't adjust their populations instantly. If all three of these events happened within the same week, for instance, then yes, the nitrogen cycle could be temporarily disrupted.

[drummereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15409605#post15409605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
[BWhat we don't know is how much time elapsed between each of these changes. [/B]

Good point. ;)

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15409605#post15409605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
We know that the OP has changed several things recently. The ChemiClean probably killed a lot of cyano, temporarily increasing nutrient load. Removing the bio-balls reduced the surface area available for nitrification, and the mass of nitrifying bacteria in the tank. Switching from feeding every other day to feeding every day may have also increased the nutrient load.

What we don't know is how much time elapsed between each of these changes. Nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria don't adjust their populations instantly. If all three of these events happened within the same week, for instance, then yes, the nitrogen cycle could be temporarily disrupted.

yes it was all in about a week as told to do so by the lfs.

[boogers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15408555#post15408555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Korrine
duh :lol:

If he says it's .5 it's not really that high and a few small water changes will suffice as the tank sorts itself out. However if it's 4ppm then larger wc are in order.

He probably took out all his bioballs at once...(he posted he took them out). His rock may have to play catch up. That's my guess.

on my color card it was between about .5 and 1
the nitrates were between 10 and 20

[Korrine]

That's not to bad although it can disrupt things a little bit as ammonia is bad. Try doing a 20% water change and see what it brings the level down to. How long has it been since you changed the last thing?

don't always listen to what your lfs says. Do your research first. :)

[boogers]

I took out the bioballs 4 nights ago maybe? And I didn't feed them today thinking that would help a little. I added some new water earlier and I'm gonna check it again in the morning to see what the levels are.

I have some more lr in my garage. Do I need to add that to the sump to help w/ the filtration since I took out the bio balls?

[Korrine]

only add the lr if you are 100% sure it's cured and won't add any ammonia/nitrite to your tank...ie it's been running in a saltwater container in your garage with a powerhead and heater. otherwise it could do more harm than good.

[boogers]

nope it's just been sitting in a 5 gallon bucket. i thought i could rinse it really good and it would be ok but that's good to know I cna't do that. Thank You

[Korrine]

no you can't add that rock. It will have lots of dead junk on it which will increase the ammonia.

circulation is what carries the waste through the rocks so the bacteria on the rocks can filter it. Rocks loose that after sitting in stagnant water in a short period of time because the bacteria need the water flow with the oxygen to live.

[jtma508]

Those levels aren't catastrophic. As others have said I wouldn't do anything drastic right now. Water changes won't hurt the nitrifying bacteria populations. They don't live in the water column but rather on surfaces.

[reeftanknewbie]

I would agree with mr harvard as I feel it might be the die off of the algae that is causing the spike. I would stay with what others are saying with small frequent water changes to testing frequently until you get a handle on it.