New to bulkheads, simple questions:

[widmer]

Hey there-

1. So I was going to drill holes for drain and return through the bottom of the tank. I was thinking about just getting bulkheads that have slip connections. Mainly because I don't have a whole lot of plumbing experience. Any reason why I shouldn't do this?

2. I was going to do 1" bulkhead for drain and 3/4" bulkhead for return for 600 gph flow per reefcentral calculator. Anyone with experience believe this to work out?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I like slip bulkheads. No reason to not use them. On the outside of the tank, a glued joint won't leak. On the inside, you can just pressure-fit the standpipe, which makes it easy to remove for service or adjustment.

A 1" will be totally maxed out at 600 gph, if it'll even handle that. It'll likely be noisy. Be sure to oversize your standpipe (1.25" plumbing on a 1" bulkhead) for quietest operation. If you REALLY need 600 gph, I would step the bulkhead up the next size (1.25 or 1.5, whichever you can get). If this is all theoretical and 400 - 500 gph would be fine, just use the 1" bulkhead and valve back your return pump until things work OK.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15430265#post15430265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by widmer
Hey there-

1. So I was going to drill holes for drain and return through the bottom of the tank. I was thinking about just getting bulkheads that have slip connections. Mainly because I don't have a whole lot of plumbing experience. Any reason why I shouldn't do this?

2. I was going to do 1" bulkhead for drain and 3/4" bulkhead for return for 600 gph flow per reefcentral calculator. Anyone with experience believe this to work out?

On what tank? The reason I ask is twofold: One, even with my high flow bias, 600 gph for a 15 gal rimless is a bit excessive.....:D Actually, what i am thinking, is most store bought tanks, have tempered bottoms and you cannot drill them.

On the subject of bulkheads and plumbing, what der_wille said is very true for Durso type standpipes, as you get close to the limit of the stand pipe, the setup will oscillate between filling up and flushing, which will make a considerable amount of noise and bubbles in the sump. Another poster here is having trouble with a 1.25" durso, on a 1" bullkhead. (excessive bubbles @ 320 gph) I would forgo the 1", and start out as large as you can w/bulkhead and stand pipe. This is a "quirk" with the durso design.

Also with this flow rate, (600gph) I would lean towards a 1" return size rather than 3/4".

Regards,

Jim

[JTL]

I looked at 1 1/2" fixtures a while back. OMG that stuff is huge!! Reminded me of when I dug up my sanitary sewer and replaced everything back to the toilet.

[widmer]

Well the complete story is that I want to see if I can run the tank without any powerheads, kind of closed-loop style, except just by drain & return.

I know the bottom isn't tempered, and it's 3/8" thick glass of 12"x24" footprint. How big do you guys suppose I could go? I figured that a 1" bulkhead was kind of my upper limit.

[sedor]

Only difference between slip bulkheads and threaded is that slip requires you to glue your PVC to it, and threaded you just use an adapter. With threaded you could reuse the bulkhead if you wanted to. For around $6 each though it doesn't really matter much.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

What sort of sump are you using? Most smaller sumps are very easy to overwhelm if you are pushing them too hard, which leads to a lot of noise, evaporation, and microbubbles in the display.

Honestly, I would design the sump areound the sump's requirements, then just do a separate closed loop if you don't want powerheads in the tank. That is, unless you're going to have a really large sump.

[sedor]

I don't think its going to be possible to go powerhead-less unless your doing FOWLR. With mid-end powerheads like Koralias its not only about the gph coming from them, but also the placement. You want to use a couple so you can add flow to all points in your tank. They also have a much wider output them return hoses will.

If you really wanted to go without powerheads, you'll probably have to make some sort of spray bar that goes across the entire backside of the tank and has a bunch of little holes in it so you can get some varied current.

[widmer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15435824#post15435824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by der_wille_zur_macht
What sort of sump are you using? Most smaller sumps are very easy to overwhelm if you are pushing them too hard, which leads to a lot of noise, evaporation, and microbubbles in the display.

Honestly, I would design the sump areound the sump's requirements, then just do a separate closed loop if you don't want powerheads in the tank. That is, unless you're going to have a really large sump.

That's a really good point, something I haven't considered before. The sump is roughly the same size as the display tank albeit shorter at 22" by 12" by 9".

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15435885#post15435885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ryandlf
I don't think its going to be possible to go powerhead-less unless your doing FOWLR. With mid-end powerheads like Koralias its not only about the gph coming from them, but also the placement. You want to use a couple so you can add flow to all points in your tank. They also have a much wider output them return hoses will.

If you really wanted to go without powerheads, you'll probably have to make some sort of spray bar that goes across the entire backside of the tank and has a bunch of little holes in it so you can get some varied current.

In most cases I'd agree. But remember, we're talking about a 12" tall aquarium with a footprint of 12" by 24". I pretty firmly believe that one single strong jet across the length of the aquarium causes enough agitation from secondary currents that it creates, to reach nearly all nooks and crannies. This was pretty easily verified for me by a 300 gph maxi jet 1200 placed at one end and pointed toward the other. It creates a powerful flow across the center of the tank, and though it might not be fruitful to place SPS in the distant corners, it is still quite obvious that there is at least moderate flow in everywhere.

Anyways, after looking into it more, I think I am going to go with the common advice and make the overflow/return a standard rate, and add a koralia as well. Not as much for concerns with flow or noise, but when I look into return pumps rated at 600 gph, I'm looking at 60++ watts electricity consumption. Having that draw going 24/7/365 doesn't make as much sense as the 20 watt return pump I have now + a 5 watt koralia...

Thanks for all the advice though folks.

In short: Revised plan: 1" drain, 3/4" return, 300 gph throughput. Sound decent?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15437137#post15437137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by widmer
Not as much for concerns with flow or noise, but when I look into return pumps rated at 600 gph, I'm looking at 60++ watts electricity consumption. Having that draw going 24/7/365 doesn't make as much sense as the 20 watt return pump I have now + a 5 watt koralia...

True from a financial standpoint, but also from the standpoint that the 60w return pump will dump more heat into the tank, which you probably won't want.

In short: Revised plan: 1" drain, 3/4" return, 300 gph throughput. Sound decent?

Perfect plan. 300 gph is still pretty high turnover for a 12*12*24 inch (15 gallon) tank.

[JTL]

While we are on the subject, what would be a good turnover for a 44x23x22 tank. I thought maybe 1000gph. I don't plan on getting into any hard to raise corals.

[1DeR9_3Hy]

I like lower flow through sumps/fuges, so something around 100 gallons would be good (if it were my tank) with 600-1000 gph.

I figure it gives more time for the skimmer to do its job, and more time for the chaeto to absorb nutrients. Then add a powerhead to your sump to keep things rolling around and to keep crud from collecting. :)

[uncleof6]

Ok, however, what the skimmer does, is not connected to the flow rate through the sump. The flow rate through the skimmer, dictates what the skimmer will do for your system.:)

In a, hate to use the word correctly--- where the flow is controllable through the "fuge", the flow through the fuge from the flow through the "fuge" is also seperate from the flow through the sump.

So neither is or needs to be connected to the flow rate through the sump.

Regards,

Jim

[JTL]

Jim, only if you split the flow and regulate the fuge and skimmer section with valves. Right? I suppose it doesn't make any difference if you only put a portion of the water in the skimmer and dump the rest into the return because the skimmer does not process all of the water anyway.

[uncleof6]

I musta been tired when I wrote that last post..... You don't put valves on a drain line, to split the flow or anything else, other than with a full siphon drain. The single largest plumbing "problem complaint" I see, is with the drains. Splitting, valving drain lines, is a contributing factor to these issues, regardless of the design, seconded by the size of the plumbing. A drain line is a drain line, not a "flow director"--i.e. a way to get the water to the sump. Flow control comes off the return pump, where it will not affect the operation of the drain system. (a much debated topic) Further, you do not need raw water in the fuge. It simply turns the "fuge" into a garbage dump. (another much debated topic) What plumbing is needed then? Depends on the drain system. Efficiency wise, Single Durso: Single drain line straight to the sump (of adequate size) and a single return line, with split to fuge. (pictured somewhere around here) Bean's S&FOS, as complicated as it needs to be, 3 drain lines direct to the sump (not combined, split or anything else,) a single return line, with split to the fuge. This simplicity works, unfortunately it does not make for exciting build threads, and photogenic show and tell, about look at my complicated contraption.

On the skimmer vs flow through the sump: Most skimmers operate on their own pump. So whether you run five gallons an hour through the skimmer section or 3000 gph through the skimmer section, the skimmer will process what the skimmer is designed to process, so the two are not connected. Long debates have insued over this, but logic, contradicts the myth. With a correctly sized and operated skimmer, there is no concern over the flow rate through the sump.

Regards,

Jim

[JTL]

It makes sense but I know I've seen more than one diagram where the split was on the return. With Bean's adjustment of the full siphon standpipe it would be a nightmare.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15443826#post15443826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JTL
It makes sense but I know I've seen more than one diagram where the split was on the return. With Bean's adjustment of the full siphon standpipe it would be a nightmare.

??

J

[JTL]

?? ?
That was easy.

[uncleof6]

What would the nightmare be?

[JTL]

Trying to adjust the flow from the full siphon standpipe and then the the fuge and then the skimmer. More variables more bad dreams.